Older cyclists

gmac101 wrote:

understood their own bodies better and had an edge on the zone you needed to get into.  

That's certainly what I got from cycling, a better understanding of my own body. Better, but not yet thorough. This is stuff we should learn during our youth. Still, acquiring better knowledge is something to look forward to.

I'm still amazed at how the body has a mind of its own. 

Coming home bowlegged and saddle sore from a three-day camping tour, I stopped for a coffee near a swimming pool I regularly used. For the last 11 km home, I was going to use the usual route, I reckoned I could do the climb.
After I finished the coffee, the start of an alternative route flashed  into mind. When I mounted up, I still intended to go the way I always go, over the watershed.
My body had other ideas. It took roads that I had travelled but never like that, as a joined-up route. Some submerged area of the brain seems to have recorded the grade of every road on the way and selected a four-kilometer detour with the gentlest inclines and least vertical difference between start and end points.

If I were more sensitive to my body and willing to listen to it, I wouldn't need a heart rate monitor. Perhaps it's just a case of understanding how you are breathing and how your muscles feel? This old dog is learning the tricks he never learned when younger. 

nicdoye wrote:

I still love the idea, I just wish I could enjoy being out there more.

I hear you. Your embarrassment is probably mostly your own thing. Anyone who sneers, tauts, or teases is just a twat. People who see you stop on the hills are mainly relieved, "Phew! I'm glad that's not me." You are helping them.
I was having trouble getting up hills near here on my Kona Jake. When I bought it, I didn't know what cyclocross meant, or about the mechanical divide between road and MTB components. It came with a 50/39/30 at the front and 11--25 at the back. Eventually, pasting from Sheldon's gear calculator I made tables showing meters development and KPH @ 90 rpm. The cassette soon got changed. 
I live at 58 m and there's a place over and up another hill (at 259 m) that sells free range eggs. It was an excuse to climb... the first three times I gave out about 50 m from the top, where the incline is 10% or more. This climb is Cat 4 on Strava, 3.7 km and av. 4%, and to get to the start of it I have to climb 100 m. The fourth time, I was determined to make it to the top, but about 20 m on from previous place my vision greyed out and I had to dismount and huff'n'puff for a while. At that point, I realized that the problem was not soley bio, it was biomechanical, and could be solved by admitting that the bio output was on the low side. 
My bike store guy was able to fit MTB chainwheels at the front and long-cage derailleur at the back. I'm not proud of 24/32 but it allows me to get to where I want to go. I went from 1,200 km a year to 4,000 and last year, 4,500. Climbs no longer scare me, but I still think I need a bit more training (and patience) to confidently sustain climbing past 1,000 m in a session (so far, PR is 1,400 m in a day).

Using the tables I made, I could that with the orginal gearing, at 90 cadence, it's theoretically possible to do about 50 km on the flat. I never did that and couldn't sustain any time at all on the top two gears. Now my top speed at 90 cadence would be around 45 kph. I haven't seen that yet on the flat. 
Introducing a metaphor... About a year after using a compact camera with a 28 mm to 400 mm zoom lens, I used some software that anlayzed focal lengths and reported to me that 97% of my shots were in the 28 to 110 range. Bicycle gearing presents the same kind of usage distribution. Perhaps club riders and racers actually get some value out of the higher gears, but the many individual riders I overtake while simply maintaining my pace certainly do not. When they catch up with me at the lights, they often say things like, thinking here now of a guy on a beautiful cherry red Cinelli Saetta, "I don't like hills." ["Call that a hill?] Reviews occasionally point out the fantasy gearing that bikes are equipped with. Maybe Shimano will see the market potential and come up with some solution. A bicycle is just a machine and your body is the motor. The machine can be adapted to the power plant. If you want to enjoy being out more, there are ways to do it. You won't come in first, but you will be able to finish.
 

CXR94Di2 wrote:

I started to do TT in June for the first time. This allowed me to get onto the road for short durations. I can managed to beat the Veteran on standard (VOS) times by a few minutes. , so I am pleased. As you say there are still many who are older who destroy their VOS times. For the majority it's a slow regression. I was interested in how my body compared to a younger rider. My observations are they have a larger capacity and a significant margin or call it a upper buffer zone. I am more than capable at generating the same power as a younger rider, but cannot sustain it as my heart rate hits the max limit, then it ends in an awful mess

I personally think that whether or not you are competing, that the main thing once you reach a certain age, is that you are still breathing when you wake up in a morning. 

Daveyraveygravey wrote:

Recovery takes longer too.  If I ride hard - which for me is up around 18-20 mph for an hour or so - it takes me at least 3 days to get over the effort.    I can still ride the next day, but there is nothing there.

Ha, ditto - but 18-20 for me is on a good day, and I can't maintain it for too long. I'll do it for bursts, slow down for a bit and then speed up again. Nowadays I'm happy if I can average 15 mph for a journey, 10 mph on a bad day. Also: got rheumatoid arthritis in the hands and feet to contend with. Cycling for miles can get pretty painful.  Energy wise the next day isn't  so much the problem (I take creatine to help aid recovery) as the pain in the hands, feet and other joints. 

Daveyraveygravey wrote:

Recovery takes longer too.  If I ride hard - which for me is up around 18-20 mph for an hour or so - it takes me at least 3 days to get over the effort.    I can still ride the next day, but there is nothing there.

I recently got a Suunto Ambit 3 for tracking rides and counting lengths in the pool.
After activity undertaken with the HRM on, it indicates a recovery period.
Last week, to attend a musical event, I cycled more than 100 km in a day. On the way there, I did what may or may not be intervals (I'm still new at this training stuff) and saw close to my max HR on four bursts (peak training effect 3.8). When I arrived home at 1:30 AM, the watch indicated 119 hours recovery. Observing recovery basically seems to mean no aerobic or harder excercise, in this case, for the next five days! Yesterday, the recovery period expired. I went on a shorter ride with three 'intervals' (peak training effect 3.3): recovery 19 h.
I'm not so sure about the algorhithms, but the comments in this thread have made me more accepting of the length of recovery.
With a resting pulse of 34 bpm, I am confidently fit, but after two years of seeing no improvement in speed on my Strava test segments, I grasped that there is a difference between being fit and being trained. Now, to improve my stamina and strength, I am trying to deliberately stress my muscles and tax my circulation. Having a heart rate monitor is actually teaching me to cycle more slowly. It is still hard for me to cycle at less than 125 bpm, which may or may not be my aerobic threshold (there are different ways of calculating).
I can understand why people engage personal trainers!

OmuGuy wrote:

Daveyraveygravey wrote:

Recovery takes longer too.  If I ride hard - which for me is up around 18-20 mph for an hour or so - it takes me at least 3 days to get over the effort.    I can still ride the next day, but there is nothing there.

I recently got a Suunto Ambit 3 for tracking rides and counting lengths in the pool.
After activity undertaken with the HRM on, it indicates a recovery period.
Last week, to attend a musical event, I cycled more than 100 km in a day. On the way there, I did what may or may not be intervals (I'm still new at this training stuff) and saw close to my max HR on four bursts (peak training effect 3.8). When I arrived home at 1:30 AM, the watch indicated 119 hours recovery. Observing recovery basically seems to mean no aerobic or harder excercise, in this case, for the next five days! Yesterday, the recovery period expired. I went on a shorter ride with three 'intervals' (peak training effect 3.3): recovery 19 h.
I'm not so sure about the algorhithms, but the comments in this thread have made me more accepting of the length of recovery.
With a resting pulse of 34 bpm, I am confidently fit, but after two years of seeing no improvement in speed on my Strava test segments, I grasped that there is a difference between being fit and being trained. Now, to improve my stamina and strength, I am trying to deliberately stress my muscles and tax my circulation. Having a heart rate monitor is actually teaching me to cycle more slowly. It is still hard for me to cycle at less than 125 bpm, which may or may not be my aerobic threshold (there are different ways of calculating).
I can understand why people engage personal trainers!

 

Resting heart rate of 34 bpm?  Wow!  Mine's about 90, but I have read that doesn't mean too much, it is just "your" figure.  

I have a similar lack of improvement in my performance now.  Once you get up to 5000 miles a year, just riding your bike doesn't give you much noticeable improvement.  I started a Strava training programme which was going well until I got a trapped nerve; the nerve wasn't from the training but I wasn't sure what was causing it so eased off.  I will definitely do more of them, if nothing else it showed me the benefit of some structure and organisation. If you just leave to see how you feel, you may push yourself one ride in 4, but it was possible for me to do more than that.

Daveyraveygravey wrote:

OmuGuy wrote:

Daveyraveygravey wrote:

Recovery takes longer too.  If I ride hard - which for me is up around 18-20 mph for an hour or so - it takes me at least 3 days to get over the effort.    I can still ride the next day, but there is nothing there.

I recently got a Suunto Ambit 3 for tracking rides and counting lengths in the pool.
After activity undertaken with the HRM on, it indicates a recovery period.
Last week, to attend a musical event, I cycled more than 100 km in a day. On the way there, I did what may or may not be intervals (I'm still new at this training stuff) and saw close to my max HR on four bursts (peak training effect 3.8). When I arrived home at 1:30 AM, the watch indicated 119 hours recovery. Observing recovery basically seems to mean no aerobic or harder excercise, in this case, for the next five days! Yesterday, the recovery period expired. I went on a shorter ride with three 'intervals' (peak training effect 3.3): recovery 19 h.
I'm not so sure about the algorhithms, but the comments in this thread have made me more accepting of the length of recovery.
With a resting pulse of 34 bpm, I am confidently fit, but after two years of seeing no improvement in speed on my Strava test segments, I grasped that there is a difference between being fit and being trained. Now, to improve my stamina and strength, I am trying to deliberately stress my muscles and tax my circulation. Having a heart rate monitor is actually teaching me to cycle more slowly. It is still hard for me to cycle at less than 125 bpm, which may or may not be my aerobic threshold (there are different ways of calculating).
I can understand why people engage personal trainers!

 

 

Resting heart rate of 34 bpm?  Wow!  Mine's about 90, but I have read that doesn't mean too much, it is just "your" figure.  

I have a similar lack of improvement in my performance now.  Once you get up to 5000 miles a year, just riding your bike doesn't give you much noticeable improvement.  I started a Strava training programme which was going well until I got a trapped nerve; the nerve wasn't from the training but I wasn't sure what was causing it so eased off.  I will definitely do more of them, if nothing else it showed me the benefit of some structure and organisation. If you just leave to see how you feel, you may push yourself one ride in 4, but it was possible for me to do more than that.

My heartrate used to be around 40bpm. I say around 40 thats becuase two years ago I started with minor blackouts at rest in bed. Turns out I was getting heart block when the heart skips a few beats. It ticks away nicely now at 60bpm  rhr thanks to a pacemaker.  No need for heart rate monitors as I get it checked every 12 months.  My Max heart rate  should be around 154 bpm this was achieved over 300 times last year Oct -Oct.  Therefore this equates to about 6 times per week and as I usually go cycling 3 times per week on average that means that I max out twice per ride. Oh and I have 7 years of battery life left. Thats if I live that long !

Just keep breathing and go like stink up two hills per ride. Thats my motto !

Batchy wrote:

 Oh and I have 7 years of battery life left. Thats if I live that long !

Get yourself put on the queue for a battery change now!
Or save to have it done privately.
You will still be around.

OmuGuy wrote:

Batchy wrote:

 Oh and I have 7 years of battery life left. Thats if I live that long !

Get yourself put on the queue for a battery change now!
Or save to have it done privately.
You will still be around.

 

Hopefully those nice people at Blackpool Victioria Hospital will fit a new one for free. However this will depend on how much of the state that Dave and George have cut back by then. Well I mean , we may have to pay to go to China to have our pacemaker batteries replaced in 2022 !

Daveyraveygravey wrote:

Resting heart rate of 34 bpm?  Wow!  Mine's about 90, but I have read that doesn't mean too much, it is just "your" figure.  

Well, about three years ago, when I first saw 40 bpm using Azumio Instant Heartrate on my phone, I was worried that I was a zombie. At a medical, I asked the doctor about it and he said that it was "Sports heart". Since then, as my fitness has further improved, the bpm has gone down even more. For a long time, Miguel Indurain was known as having the lowest resting heart rate of a healthy human being, 28 bpm.

I'm sure that there there must be a limit to improvement. But I think I still have some head room. The cycling bug only bit me four years ago. My son came home from university one summer and went out one day and came back with a Specialized Allez 105. After about three days he said "Dad, why don't you give it it a go."
The feeling of power transfer through the pedals reminded me of the mechanical satisfaction you get when pressing the shutter button on an SLR camera.
For my 58th birthday, I got myself a halfway decent bike with drops: the learning began.

Last year I rode 4,500 km, which is half way to your suggestion of 5,000 miles to the plateau.
I work at home so there is no commuting. To make up for that, for four years, whenever I rode, I'd go all out all the time. I use the bike for most of our household shopping. I usually conspire to do more than 20 km going to several stores and  then returning about 3 km uphill with 8 kg or more in the panniers. Where I live there are lots of hills. One I deliberately take is 1.2 km at 6% average. I've come to enjoy climbing.

But what the Suunto training documents are telling me is that you do not get stronger when you are stressing your muscles. You get stronger during recovery. I had never given a thought to that. With the watch strapped to the handlebar, I can see the HR, even at night. Now, I control my effort and throttle right back when further stress would (according to how I understand the theory) be unproductive.

I'm not sure I could actually follow a training programme, but as you say, structure and organization, intentional action with a goal in mind,  seems to be the way to go. 

I seem to be learnng what I need to know. Doing intervals, and easing off, has added new dimensions of cycling pleasure.

OmuGuy wrote:

Daveyraveygravey wrote:

Resting heart rate of 34 bpm?  Wow!  Mine's about 90, but I have read that doesn't mean too much, it is just "your" figure.  

Well, about three years ago, when I first saw 40 bpm using Azumio Instant Heartrate on my phone, I was worried that I was a zombie. At a medical, I asked the doctor about it and he said that it was "Sports heart". Since then, as my fitness has further improved, the bpm has gone down even more. For a long time, Miguel Indurain was known as having the lowest resting heart rate of a healthy human being, 28 bpm.

I'm sure that there there must be a limit to improvement. But I think I still have some head room. The cycling bug only bit me four years ago. My son came home from university one summer and went out one day and came back with a Specialized Allez 105. After about three days he said "Dad, why don't you give it it a go."
The feeling of power transfer through the pedals reminded me of the mechanical satisfaction you get when pressing the shutter button on an SLR camera.
For my 58th birthday, I got myself a halfway decent bike with drops: the learning began.

Last year I rode 4,500 km, which is half way to your suggestion of 5,000 miles to the plateau.
I work at home so there is no commuting. To make up for that, for four years, whenever I rode, I'd go all out all the time. I use the bike for most of our household shopping. I usually conspire to do more than 20 km going to several stores and  then returning about 3 km uphill with 8 kg or more in the panniers. Where I live there are lots of hills. One I deliberately take is 1.2 km at 6% average. I've come to enjoy climbing.

But what the Suunto training documents are telling me is that you do not get stronger when you are stressing your muscles. You get stronger during recovery. I had never given a thought to that. With the watch strapped to the handlebar, I can see the HR, even at night. Now, I control my effort and throttle right back when further stress would (according to how I understand the theory) be unproductive.

I'm not sure I could actually follow a training programme, but as you say, structure and organization, intentional action with a goal in mind,  seems to be the way to go. 

I seem to be learnng what I need to know. Doing intervals, and easing off, has added new dimensions of cycling pleasure.

What I found with the Strava training programme was an ability to fit more interval sessions in.  At the start you pick a programme, and tell it how many hours a week you ride.  You then get a weekly email telling you what you are doing each day, and then the night before you get more specific instructions about the next day's session.  I typically ride 5 - 7 times a week, which is 2 or 3 days commuting and a bigger endurance ride at the weekend, usually with mates.    The Strava programme would have two rest days (usually Monday and Thursday) 2 endurance days and 3 interval days.  After only two weeks, I can't claim I feel hugely different, but I think if I had been able to carry it on for the remaining three weeks there would have been real benefits.  Before I got on the Strava thing, I would do intervals that were similar to what Strava was getting me to do, but I would do one maybe two interval sessions a week.  It was only when looking back at my activities that I could see I wasn't doing them that often.

I need a new Garmin though, my current Forerunner seems to have  a dieing battery as it only lasts about 90 minutes now and I daren't use the light, never mind run an interval programme off it!

Unfortunately, physical condition does decline with age. However, just by being active you are reducing the effects. Those taking up cycling at a later age will have a harder time to get fit than someone who was a keen cyclist when younger; but that shouldn't stop you trying.

OmuGuy wrote:

Last year I rode 4,500 km, which is half way to your suggestion of 5,000 miles to the plateau.

That's good going. To begin with you just need to ride but as you get better it's not only about miles.

OmuGuy wrote:

But what the Suunto training documents are telling me is that you do not get stronger when you are stressing your muscles. You get stronger during recovery. I had never given a thought to that. With the watch strapped to the handlebar, I can see the HR, even at night. Now, I control my effort and throttle right back when further stress would (according to how I understand the theory) be unproductive.

By recovery I guess you mean allowing time for adaptation. Often when a coach writes about recovery they'll describe how many amateur riders don't train hard enough to see significant gains but also don't allow enough time for proper recovery & adaptation. I'm guilty of both. People like Tejvan write about doing a proper recovery ride and being overtaken by people nipping to the shops. He writes lots of useful and interesting articles. I would certainly recommend two things regardless of how seriously (or not) you train: 1. more and better sleep and 2. less junk/sugary foods, more unprocessed fruit & veg.

Simon E wrote:

By recovery I guess you mean allowing time for adaptation. ... recovery & adaptation. I'm guilty of both. ... proper recovery ride and being overtaken by people nipping to the shops.
1. more and better sleep and 2. less junk/sugary foods, more unprocessed fruit & veg.

Thanks for the encouragement an pointers SimonE. 
The watch I have calls it Recovery, and the documents translated, I suppose, from Finnish, are not all they could be. Adaptation is a useful concept to bear in mind. 
When I've been doing recovery and the slow bits of intervals, I have had that childish desire to catch up with and overtake those passing on "less worthy" bikes. The HR monitor makes it much easier to be disciplined.
On the sleep and food front. Even as a young teenager, I made sure that I mad up for lost sleep. For parts of the year six hours seems about right, but this time of year, I seem to need and get more. 
I used to love pasta, spuds, cakes, pastries and bread. To lose weight, I cut them out a few years ago. Every couple of weeks I used to treat myself to good bread bought a master baker's but after a couple of months I was in the queue and had to flee the shop because the smell of baking breading was making me feel queasy. 
One day, eating out, the second forkful of pasta made me feel exhausted at the thought of having to finish the whole plate. I left it. 
I get my carbs from vegetable sources like broccoli, squash, sweet potatos and, of course, bananas.
I still occasionally eat mouldable or soluble carbs but rarely actually enjoy them. Fuelling on long rides is a bit of a problem because sugary things make me feel like Mr Ed (the talking horse that was given peanut butter to animate his mouth). I've tried taking boiled sweet potatos, but they are too fibrous for easy digestion. That  third banana is also unappetizing.
One of the reasons I got more interested in training rather than staying fit was to adapt to burning fat. Even if I don't adapt, at least I now have confident knowledge that there are ways to reduce the consumption glucose and glycogen. I was really an idiot, just going at it as swift as  was safe and as fast as fatigue allowed.