“Same Chris, it’s the darn bike holding me back!”: Fans react to Chris Froome’s “equipment” blame-game; Are taxis public transport? Cyclists “disappointed and angry” as Oxford LTN allows taxis; Cycle hangars blocked by parked cars + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
End of an era? Chris Froome left out of Tour de France by Israel Premier Tech
Oh my word. I guess that’s what eras are, they came to an end.
Once in a generation rider, four-time Tour winner Chris Froome has not been selected by Team Israel Premier Tech for the Grand Tour squad, set to start next Saturday if you weren’t aware…
Israel’s line-up selection released today morning, and the team wrote it was a “a versatile team aiming for stage wins”.
“I believe that each of our eight selected riders has what it takes to be victorious in this race,” said the team’s Sports Manager.
Besides Froome, South African rider Daryl Impey was also left out of Israel Prem Tech’s squad.
End of an era 😢 https://t.co/nTFAc8JJ01 pic.twitter.com/hBBfL238Lg
— Beefeater Bend🎶🍻 (@tdfbeefeaters) June 23, 2023
It sucks but this might mean that the time’s finally running out for the 38-year-old. He’s out of contract at the end of the year, and the Brit had earlier revealed he had been struggling with a minor tendon injury at the start of the year, but that the Tour remained “the ultimate goal”.
“It’s the race in which I’ve had my nicest feelings, where all the best riders in the world compete in their best form,” he said. “Obviously I’m not going to go to the Tour to fight for the overall, but if I can try to go for a stage win, that would be great.”
Besides, the four Tour wins, Froome also won a Giro and two Vueltas, cementing himself as one of the greatest of all time. But since his crash in 2019, he has only finished in the top 10 once, climbing with aplomb at the top of the Alpe d’Huez and finishing third in last year’s stage 12 of the Tour. His last stage win came at the 2018 Giro, his last Grand Tour win too.
You are going to be missed Froome, a lot. Who will be the butt of our long-running young-man/old-man jokes, who will we wait for to pile up on disc brakes… what I’d do to watch Cav and Froome have a go at it, one last time at the Tour…
Edinburgh special! Cyclehoop hangars open only 1/4th the way because... parked cars are blocking the lid
Edinburgh Council is back at it.
We have had drivers blocking cycle lanes, but blocking cycle hangars? That’s a new one.
You know what’s great? @cyclehoop bicycle hangars🚲
But you’ll only be able to open them 1/4 of the time because @Edinburgh_CC didn’t put parking restrictions near them, so you can’t open the doors and use your bike to go to work…#edinburgh #cycling #sustainabletravel pic.twitter.com/tYNqLKdWyK
— Tom Woolnough (@TomWoolno) June 22, 2023
But seriously, imagine you get off your work and go to the hangar to fetch your bike, and then you see this. What would you have done?!
TdF blues: Another blue kit in the peloton
We’ve got Cav and company’s latest trim for the Tour de France, and it’s something I’m seeing a pattern with all these new Tour kits: They are blue.
⚡️🔥 What a news!
Astana Qazaqstan Team presents the new design of its @GiordanaCycling jersey which will be wearing by the riders at the @LeTour, which starts in Bilbao on 1st July.
📰👉Read more: https://t.co/SqS40SZthI#TDF2023 #AstanaQazaqstanTeam pic.twitter.com/JGZybVtG5u
— Astana Qazaqstan Team (@AstanaQazTeam) June 23, 2023
Okay I am not going to lie, I think the kit is amazing. But, are we going a bit overboard with the blues?
First DSM, Bora, and now Astana. Add Bahrain’s and Movistar’s blue-tinted kits, and potentially Groupama with a blue-ish kit, it’s going to be a sea of riders in the peloton, quite literally.
> Team DSM unveil new name and new very, very, very, very dark blue kit
If I had nothing better to do I would moan about how having similar coloured kits in the peloton is boring and not a good overall watching experience for the viewers, no matter how good they look individually, and it seems that I exactly have nothing better to do other than moaning about a kit on the live blog. Jolly times!
At least Uno-X has a bright red kit! Now, bring on Lidl-Trek!
Pogačar raring to go for third Tour title as he remarks injury came at "a perfect time"
If there were any doubts about Pogačar’s form going into the Tour de France next week, I think he has well and truly put them to bed with an absolutely dominating performance at the Slovenian time trials yesterday.
He beat the second-placed Marko Pavlič by a whopping 5 minutes and 14 seconds, and even outdid his 2020 time by 27 seconds, setting a time of 29:43 with an average speed of 31.699 km/h for the 15.7km course.
The 2020 and 2021 Tour winner, then told UAE’s national news that his scaphoid wrist fracture injury at Liège-Bastogne-Liège in April came at “perfect time”.
“Naturally I didn’t want it to happen like that, but I was due a long break and I guess the injury just forced me to rest a bit more,” he said.
The 24-year-old has enjoyed a barnstorming season so far, already winning two tours: Vuelta a Andalucía and Paris-Nice, before proving his all-round capabilities with monster performances during the spring classics seasons, winning the Tour of Flanders, Amstel Gold and La Flèche Wallonne.
> Incredible Tadej Pogačar wins Tour of Flanders with stunning solo move
Is there anything the Slovenian steamroller can’t do? Get a particular Flemish newspaper to call Urška Žigart by her name. More on that shortly…
"Damn disc brakes!", "freaking SRAM!"... Froome "disappointed" with team selection, says he couldn't show "full ability due to equipment issues"
Some quotes from the man himself, after missing out on this year’s Tour squad for Israel Premier Tech:
“I’m obviously disappointed with the decision. The Tour de France holds an incredibly special place in my heart.
“Physically I was ready, but unfortunately I was unable to show my full ability at the races assigned to me due to equipment issues.
“I respect the team’s decision and will take some time before refocusing on objectives later in the season and returning to the Tour de France in 2024.”
> Chris Froome blames “equipment” after being left for Tour de France, insists he will race in next year’s race
Ultimate power couple: Tadej Pogačar and Urška Žigart become Slovenian time-trial champions... but Flemish newspaper still refuses to refer Žigart by her name
What’s it gotta take?! After coming agonisingly close to win the Tour de Suisse, only to be pipped 75 metres before the finish line for her maiden Tour win, Flemish newspaper Het Nieuwsblad ran a headline, referring to the Slovenian rider Urška Žigart as “Pogačar’s girlfriend”.
It led to a lot of backlash, even Pogačar reposting on his Instagram a joke headline referring to him as Žigart’s boyfriend (in what I would like to reiterate was a joke first made by Mr Mallon a full day before Canadian Cycling Magazine got to it; yes we take our jokes very seriously at road.cc).
> The best way to deal with a silly headline… Tadej Pogačar edition
And if that wasn’t pandering and embarassing enough for the Flemish newspaper, they were at it again yesterday, posting this on Twitter.
(and his girlfriend) what a bunch of idiots. Not reading this garbage anymore. https://t.co/DRHJGuShPc
— Pieter De BOISERIE 🔶🇺🇦 (@pdeboiserie) June 22, 2023
They’re never going to learn, are they?
who is Tadej Pogacar????
— abby 🎗️ (@wildewisteria) June 22, 2023
🏴🌈Special tartan with UCI rainbow for World Championships
If you’re heading out to Scotland for the UCI Worl Championships and you are looking to buy a tartan at the same time, you fall into a very specific set of people, but you’re in luck because there might be something special for you.
The tartan, which is inspired by the iconic rainbow stripes of the UCI jersey and the blue of the Scottish Saltire flag — has been designed and woven by long established weavers, Lochcarron of Scotland, a founding member of The Scottish Tartans Authority.
UCI President David Lappartient said: “It is a fantastic initiative to produce a tartan to mark the first ever edition of the UCI Cycling World Championships. The tartan will be a lasting reminder of an event that wrote a new chapter of cycling history and a reminder that this inaugural edition took place in Glasgow and across Scotland. Long after the competitions are finished, the 2023 UCI Cycling World Championships will live on in the tartan created in their honour.”
It will also be worn by 2023 UCI Worlds hosts and hostesses at the medal ceremonies.
Rob-beryl? Vandalism hits Greater Manchester’s cycle hire scheme again
“The Greater Manchester Cycle Hire Scheme has been hugely popular so far, with almost 1million kilometres ridden since its launch, and the majority of people are using the bikes as they should,” he said.
“Unfortunately, a recent spate of vandalism has meant that fewer bikes are available than normal and we would like to apologise to anyone that has recently been unable to access one.
> Vandalism hits Greater Manchester’s cycle hire scheme again
BBC dives into cycling helmet debate again... here's what people think about it
If you haven’t heard (about) it yet, BBC Radio 4’s consumer programme Sliced Bread went to take a deep dive into the cycling helmet debate yesterday, as if we haven’t seen enough of it already.
But this time, they decided to have psychologist and road safety researcher Dr Ian Walker on, so maybe there was a chance it would be a bit better?
But apparently not, the Beeb being the Beeb somehow managed to fudge it up, like usual. Here’s what road.cc reader Richard Burton thought about it.
I initially heard the bit of Dr Ian Walker, so thought that it was good, but it was the usual deliberately biased BBC approach, with an “expert” explaining how good helmets were at preventing death and injury with no examination of the facts, and although they mentioned CUK, they didn’t have anyone from it to comment, and only featured helmet proponents or neutrals like Dr Walker.
But if you’d rather avoid that and listen to something from yours truly, we had the latest episode of the road.cc Podcast release yesterday, and take a guess what’s it about…
Oh would you believe it?! The chance, the coincidence, the fate, the providence!
Ryan got to chat with Mark Limb of Queensland University of Technology, the very reseacher behind the shocking finding that took the world by storm.
Many of our readers had also shared their own experiences of the humanising or dehumanising effects of different clothing choices. So, the road.cc Podcast got in touch with one of the academics behind the study, Dr Mark Limb, to discuss hi-vis, helmets, and the various perceptions of cyclists on the roads in Australia, the UK, and beyond.
PS. Ryan, Suvi and me also discuss the highs, lows and mids of Netflix’s shocking offering that has also taken the world by storm, Tour de France: Unchained.
Are taxis public transport? Cyclists "disappointed" and "angry" after Oxford LTN allows taxis in and replaces bollards with cameras
Oxford, a safe space for low traffic neighbourhood (LTN) admirers, but also a punching bag for traffic neighbourhood critics.
The Oxfordshire County Council held a meeting yesterday to discuss the Cowley LTN and it was decided that the bollards at Littlemore Road, Littlehay Road, Crescent Road in Cowley will be replaced with automatic number plate registration (ANPR) cameras, and emergency service vehicles, taxis and Royal Mail will be allowed to pass through the LTNs.
As you’d expect, emotions were running high.
“The LTNs were a grubby deal done by [city] Labour with the [county] Tory administration. It’s a disaster from start to finish. I fear for safety of my residents. This council should be charged for manslaughter if anything happens. It is a class war,” said a City councillor.
Another speaker said: “We are to be hemmed in with cameras. This city is under siege from its own council, the enemy from within. You do not care that our lives are imploding. We are sacrificial lambs on the altar of your egos. This is the scream of a city.”
Sajad Khan: “I am representing black cab drivers. We’ve been getting stuck in traffic jams. We are having to refuse bookings if it means getting trapped in traffic. We are asked to make a huge investment in 2025 in zero-emission taxis. Not everyone understands the taxi trade.”
— Oxford Clarion (@OxfordClarion) June 22, 2023
But amidst all the commotion, active travel experts were left wondering: If it ain’t broke, why fix it?
Data released last week showed that air pollution levels across Oxford saw an overall improvement during 2022, with overall NO2 levels down by 8.3 per cent, and a 24 per cent drop when compared to pre-pandemic (2019) levels.
Zahara Plummer from Oxford Livable Streets said: “LTNs have brought about safer streets and cleaner air. We support the use of ANPR cameras for emergency services. But including taxis was not consulted on. People don’t believe that what’s consulted on will be the recommendations put forward.”
Cllr Dan Levy, county Active Travel champion said: “There are real benefits to physical barriers: they mark out a safe space for walking, cycling, playing games. I can see the benefit of blue badge holders being allowed access, but not taxis. Taxis will go through in large numbers.”
Scott Urban, @urban_turbo: “The unshakeable truth is that the Cowley LTNs are working as designed. So why ANPR? The emergency vehicles already have a clear route through each of the LTNs via unlockable bollards. Limit ANPR use to where there is a bus route.”
— Oxford Clarion (@OxfordClarion) June 22, 2023
And besides, people were left baffled at the inclusion of taxis among the remitted vehicles, with many cyclists wondering, “Are taxis public transport now?”
At least, Lid Dem Cllr Andrew Grant thinks so…
“Taxi numbers are predicted by officers to be low. I don’t accept that taxis always speed; they are professional drivers. Public transport is third in the hierarchy after walking and cycling. Are taxis a form of public transport? Yes they are.”
— Oxford Clarion (@OxfordClarion) June 22, 2023
The decision has not gone down well…
I’m so disappointed and angry. We weren’t consulted on these exemptions. This will make our LTNs high-traffic again, full of taxis which in my personal experience are some of the most reckless drivers in the city. @AndrewGant3 what we’re you thinking? https://t.co/HzjMtOGFYL
— Laura F (@dantsis87) June 22, 2023
when your #LTN isn’t actually a #LTN https://t.co/C4rfyf5AYH
— Bob From Accounts 🚲 (@BobFromAccounts) June 22, 2023
a compromise I expected and one that’ll please no one, but they clearly listened to the mobility concerns of many and made a decision. Whether it helps anyone give up their car I dunno, the main issue seems to be school run and commuter traffic here. https://t.co/hvDXyAxgB4
— Tom Lloyd (@tomlloydwrites) June 22, 2023
What do you think? Do taxis form an integral part of transport, thus making them indispensable to the overall public transport infrastructure? Or is it going to increase road danger and keep rat running high, while not incentivising people to take up cycling?
"Same Chris, it’s the darn bike holding me back!": Fans react to Chris Froome’s "equipment"
Oh no, here we go again. “Washed”, “delusional”, or “coping mechanism”?
Before you come raging at your poor live blog host, that’s not me, just people on the internet using those words for the four-time Tour de France winner.
But as I said earlier in the day, eras do come to an end, and maybe this is it for the legendary rider?
It was all going well until Froome gave an interview to GCN, where he might have let his hubris get the better of him for a split second, and that’s given all the ammunition to fans to have cheeky digs at him.
The Israel-Premier Tech rider said: “Physically I was ready, but unfortunately I was unable to show my full ability at the races assigned to me due to equipment issues.”
And as soon as these words were uttered into the ether, the age-old can of disc brakes was opened, and out crawled all the memories of several instances of Froome blaming his disc brakes for his not-so-great performances.
It’s not like the 38-year-old hasn’t been mired with “equipment” controversy before. He has swayed from hating disc brakes, to being all aboard the hype train, and then went back to detesting them, even publicly posting a video of a slow wheel change on Instagram for which he got a lot of flak.
> Fed up Froome denounces disc brake wheels on Instagram Reel
Our mysterious forum contributor, Secret_squirrel true to their name, were the first to move with lightning-fast reflexes: “Oh me first me first!
“Equipment issues”…. it was those pesky disc brakes wasnt it Chris?”
squired also didn’t pass on the free hit, going so far as to pull a reference from the depths of WWE (or WWF depending on how old you are): “Chris Froome is fast becoming the Ric Flair of cycling – “I’ve got one more in me”.”
SimoninSpalding, who reportedly can’t be bothered about LTNs and taxis today, had time for Froome’s comments: “I have long been a fan of Chris Froome, but this is getting ridiculous.
“IF the equipment he is being given is genuinely $h!t, but he is the best ride on the squad, then his results would still be better than his teammates and he would be picked. UNLESS he is suggesting he is given inferior equipment to that of his teammates which would be a strange decision in light of his purported salary.
“I am afraid he should have accepted his best days were over the first season back post his crash and retired with some dignity.”
> What’s wrong with Chris Froome’s disc brakes?
Sean Dowden wrote on Facebook: “Circling the drain. Blaming equipment on his lack of results. Just retire.”, while Richard Docherty was more pitiful: “Sadly a decision out of his hands. Maybe time to bow out and move into coaching and/or team management.”
To Froome’s misery (chap’s got enough already), Twitteratti weren’t so kind, going straight for the jugular.
He needs to stop blaming equipment and accept he’s in his twilight years and past his best
— @Ian2Wheels (@Ian2Wheels) June 23, 2023
It’s the reason I’m not a pro cyclist. Just keep having equipment issues!
— Nathan Harland (@Brough1979) June 23, 2023
I want to say a bad workman blames his tools but Chris isn’t a bad workman. He does however crank on about tech issues a lot! I’m sorry Chris but everyone else is using the same tech! It doesn’t add up! 🤷🏼♂️
— Ian (@gnarlyrebel01) June 23, 2023
Equipment issues? It’s ok to say that my body won’t take the stress, the pain, the focus needed to race and win a 3 week tour. You’re 38 and won 4 tours….time to join the European Gravel racing circuit. https://t.co/iL3NfrdK2B
— Frites en Mayo – 🌮🍺🚲🇧🇪 (@FritesEnMayoBE) June 23, 2023
Me? I don’t really have much of an opinion about the guy, so I can just sit back and watch people being petty.
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And how are those attracted/paid for? Through bigger audiences. There are 53 million black people in the USA, and around 1.2 billion in Africa. How much extra sponsorship and TV coverage do you think women's racing might get if there were a few black US and African women competing? That's not, in your idiotic phrase, "wokeism", it's good sound commercial common sense.
@chrisonabike I don't know how they would get confused - one's called Jack and one's called Nigel.
There is so much depressing deja vu here. The defence factors taken from the usual tick box list : "poor lighting", "dark clothes", "didn't see him" etc. The usual rehabilitation path comments : "full of remorse". The common previous : "drugs, and alcohol", "no licence" etc. Even your comments about the tipper truck industry ring a bell. Look up the 1957 British film "Hell Drivers", if you haven't seen it. It must have have been inspired by events of the time. I did wonder why Renshaw had been on remand. Was he a flight risk?
The cycle path at that point is (part of) the main road, not the side road.
Its not fucking careless if you drive a vehicle and don't check your mirrors. Its fucking dangerous and its fucking deadly. How on earth are we still dealing with this bollocks. Everything about this is maddening. The fact he tried to weasel out of it and blame the cyclist. The fact hes avoided prison. The fact he was still driving after such a long history of dangerous driving. The fact he is still only banned for 12 months despite killing someone due to his inability to drive safely.
The tipper truck industry is an absolute Wild West. Scandal ridden, partly because of the complete lack of regulatory oversight and the pay-by-the-load system which incentives dodgy driving. I hope there is an investigation into the firm’s recruitment process and a corporate manslaughter charge. We urgently need a HSE investigation into the whole industry
Perhaps they're confusing the writer with a certain - ahem - new poster?
My deepest condolences to the family and friends of Zinovly Savyulak.
Sounds like a recommendation to me - after all, who'd want their writing to be emotionally empty?
I think MM's point is more fatally flawed than that - people *do* complain about inequality in running. There might be less inequality than in cycling, but there's still an over-representation of white people and barriers to participation.
69 thoughts on ““Same Chris, it’s the darn bike holding me back!”: Fans react to Chris Froome’s “equipment” blame-game; Are taxis public transport? Cyclists “disappointed and angry” as Oxford LTN allows taxis; Cycle hangars blocked by parked cars + more on the live blog”
I’ve certainly seen a fair
I’ve certainly seen a fair few taxi drivers flouting the rules, and I would say on average they tend to worse than other drivers, although of course not all taxi drivers are terrible and not all other drivers are great. I do think driving standards do tend to fall when there is a financial benefit from doing so, as is seen with delivery drivers (and indeed Deliveroo etc. riders) too.
I also think it’s missing the point slightly – the role (or otherwise) of taxis as “public transport” ought to be separated from how individual drivers actually behave.
I do think taxis have a role to play. Using taxis means less parking is needed, especially in busy central locations. Taxis can be essential to disabled people (although there are plenty of stories of taxis refusing to accept or offering a very poor service to disabled people too). Taxis can make it easier or more convenient to not own a car or not use a car for certain journeys.
However, none of that is predicated on taxis being able to pass through the LTN restrictions. LTNs are designed so that everywhere is still accessible by vehicle, but rat running is not possible. Therefore, any journey is still possible with a taxi.
Black cabs are, per mile
Black cabs are, per mile travelled, the second largest cause of KSAs for cyclists and pedestrians, after tipper trucks. Admittedly, they are disproportionately likely to be on busy, city centre roads, so it isn’t an exactly fair comparison with most cars. But they are dangerous for two additional reasons:
-they often pull dodgy moves like U-turns to pick up passengers on the opposite side of the road
-the taxi trade are very strongly opposed to basic safety measures that apply to other ‘professional’ drivers such as HGV drivers, such as maximum working hours, tachometers, etc. So there are lots of tired, dangerous cabbies out there.
the little onion wrote:
Big claims require big evidence.
Indeed! It’s from a few
Indeed! It’s from a few years back and only shows the K of KSI (presumably what was meant) but if they don’t have their own figures they might want to check the PACTS report, page 13, figure 3 – total deaths involved in each mode of transport by distance travelled.
I note the little onion does mention the importance of where the vehicle is operating. This comes up in the PACTS report also – the “per distance travelled” rate makes cyclists almost as dangerous as cars! Worth looking at their analysis at the end too (essentially – not comparing apples with apples here).
Have a play with these stats
Have a play with these stats – taxis account for between 1.7 and 3% of KSAs by cars (i.e. bigger than motorbike, smaller than van) per year.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/reported-road-accidents-vehicles-and-casualties-tables-for-great-britain#road-user-type-ras02
the little onion wrote:
Yes if where’s wally was hailing a cab, every taxi driver would spot him in 0.2s. meanwhile the cyclist they cut up, almost invisible.
If taxis must be allowed,
If taxis must be allowed, then in-cab cctv, dashcams front rear and side and a black box or geographical speed limiter to keep them to 20mph in the LTNs should be a condition of licensing. Still not convinced that that ‘must’ is really a ‘must’ though. As for Royal Mail…bloody nutters in my experience.
Taxi drivers are some of the
Taxi drivers are some of the worst offenders for close passing and other bad driving.
They are experts at using their vehicles to create ‘facts on the ground’ to gain priority where they do not legally have it.
And so an LTN becomes the
And so an LTN becomes a fast track network for private enterprise.
I expect the ‘professional drivers’ will drive even more anti-socially now that they ‘don’t have to share the road with anyone else.’
Recently saw a taxi driver honk at pedestrians on the pavement so that they could park were they standing.
Sounds like the screaming of
Sounds like the screaming of a polarised minority to me. Provided they are licensed and accountable I have no problem with Taxi’s (in particular black cabs) being considered public transport. They fill a necessary gap – being much more flexible than a bus. I would probably exclude some/all mini-cabs due to the extremely poor licensing & compliance.
I suspect they are one of the top recipients of confirmation bias too. ( I got close passed by a taxi – therefore most taxis are close passers). Not helped by some of the militant anti-cyclist Black cabbies on twitter who harrass Mikey on a regular basis.
Discussion (hopefully not
Discussion (hopefully not trolling): is opposition to “15 minute cities” the new Brexit / “take back control” issue?
As in: it reflects genuine discontent (at least by some) and worry / fundamental distrust of some bigger authority and the creeping imposition of rules. However achieving “success” won’t solve the issues people are complaining about (at least in the medium term)? Certainly it doesn’t get the better of “them” – although maybe just being bolshy is seen as a win?
(Yes, obviously Brexit potentially allows us more freedoms / keeps the corruption closer to home thus nominally more accountable. I’m also comfortable with people wanting to choose more local control even if it might be costly / make life more risky … However I think a lot of people assumed that the change would fix some systemic issues or make us richer in less than a generation or two).
Stickers on the shared use
Stickers on the shared use cycle path of all places* – down with 15 minute cities. They’ve obviously not adapted their material to the proposed Scottish 20 minute ones (20 because Scots are tougher!)
But “down with this sort of thing” because … cats! Good animal theme going here…
* Maybe not so crazy – after all UK cyclists are often pretty bloody-minded, independent types…
chrisonatrike wrote:
Hmmm. Draconian was the word that came to mind ?
Also – no to the man because
Also – no to the man because … 90s comedians! To be fair they picked one who really likes cars!
Luckily some people do like the idea (actually I think they stuck these over some pro-trans-rights stickers).
Finally – I think it’s
Finally – I think it’s possible to be both anti-establishment AND complain that said establishment has screwed the public pooch and should make amends. True – it’s taken several generations but we are where we are because of political choices. From the outset the state at all levels was very eager to jump into bed with the motoring lobby pretty much to the exclusion of all other transport.
So even if we don’t really trust “them” we should also be campaigning for the freedoms for our kids, for those with disabilities, the old, people who just don’t want to sign up to the extremely expensive and ultimately problematic practice of having a motor vehicle. Or who’d like to take back some of the vast space we now devote to motoring.
Yes- that does now require rolling back some of the unbridled freedoms from the motorist. And which – “because tech” – may open potential avenues for abuse of power in the future. (Already too late for that and not that not challenging motornormativity will will stop ’em of course).
LTN with bollards = expensive
LTN with bollards = expensive
LTN with ANPR = revenue generating
I couldnt possibly comment on the desire for the second over the first by Oxford council…
LTNs with bollards are not
LTNs with bollards are not expensive.
The Beech Grove LTN we had for 18 months in Harrogate (before irresponsible North Yorkshire Council took it out again) cost £10,000 to install, which is peanuts in highways terms.
ANPR is a lot more complicated. Admittedly I have no idea how the costs stack up against fines.
HarrogateSpa wrote:
Depends how many times you have to replace the bollards vandalised by otherwise law abiding motorists
One day, the black cab
One day, the black cab drivers (and that almost 100% means “drivers of black cabs”) will lose whatever hold they have over politicians. I will laugh and laugh as their expensive private services are no longer allowed in lanes reserved for bikes and actual public transport, and they can no longer stop where they feel like.
The use case for motor vehicles roaming the streets on the off-chance someone wants to go somewhere is practically zero now nearly everyone has an internet-enabled computer in their pocket, and there’s no reason for their drivers to maintain privileges that might have made sense 60 years ago. If that forces a number of the gentlemen I’ve encountered to get a job which doesn’t involve driving and does involve declaring their earnings, that’s just a bonus.
Have a look at what Waymo and
Have a look at what Waymo and Cruise are up to in the US.
That day is not too far away.
When/if they’re reliably
When/if they’re reliably safer (all round) than human-controlled vehicles, that’s a small positive at least. I’d rather see journeys made by single/small group motorised vehicles reduced by 90% or so to only the truly essential ones that can’t be done any other way, but if I can’t have that I will settle for the LTDA watching their influence drain away.
This seems like a non-debate:
This seems like a non-debate:
If the cab driver is dropping off or picking up inside the LTN then they can use the route into and out of it that residents use when driving and charge for the extra time/distance.
If the cab driver is dropping off outside of the LTN then they don’t need to go into the LTN and they can go around it and charge for the extra time/distance.
Cab drivers win, residents win. Cab fares are slightly higher for those using cabs to get around which is a shame for them but if that causes a reducting in cab usage they will either drop their fares or the number of vehicles on the road will reduce, which is good.
Here’s a thought – have Royal
Here’s a thought – have Royal Mail every considered using bicycles?
Of course it may make their more lucrative parcel delivery services more challenging, but they will still be on a level playing field as Amazon, Evri, DPD etc…
Indeed – they may be dragged
Indeed – they may be dragged back to (electric) “bikes”* again by the other delivery services.
* probably better to call them “pedal-assisted delivery cycles” as the ones I’ve seen tend to have 3 or more wheels. FWIW I’m happy to call them “ebikes” as long as they stick to the “no assistance above 15.5mph. I’d probably even give them a pass for a bit more motor assistance for shifting weight (>250W). I wouldn’t want to let the whole “completely motorised” genie out of the bottle (and onto what cycling infra we have) though. If there’s one thing the delivery business shows it’s that ruthless competition quickly leads to completely shafting employees, members of the public at large and the taxpayer in general.
lllnorrislll wrote:
I think it’s safe to say they’ve considered it.
Not for a while though.
Not for a while though.
Wasn’t the Royal Mail selling
Wasn’t the Royal Mail selling off their stock of bicycles not so long ago or donating them to some charity in Africa? I had the chance of buying one but didn’t have the cash at the time. Growing up our postie would ditch his bike at our place to deliver to the street by foot before grabbing it to get to the next street.
Elephant bike.
Elephant bike.
If you like big animals there’s also the Buffalo bike.
All good (and the better “technology transfer” efforts care about creating jobs in the local service industries too) but as someone said on a Fairtrade seminar (I paraphrase) – “thanks for the consideration you guys, but why are aren’t we (Africans) selling our quality products in Africa”?
Anyway, putting that neatly to one side, I’m also pondering where the Abelio Scotrail rental bikes went? I think they were essentially Batavus Personal bikes with equipped with front carrier. Presumably when Abelio lost the contract they should have been available for a song. Real boat-anchor hefty – but a “proper Dutch bike” (which I didn’t understand when I tried one back in the day but appreciate now). Never saw them available though?
Yes. That’s the one. The
Yes. That’s the one. The Abelio bikes would also have been good to get the hold of. Something bomb proof for the Glasgow/Renfrewshire roads.
giff77 wrote:
They did, refurbed as “Elephant Bikes”, it was “buy 2 get 1” with the other being sent overseas, I nearly bought one (two), wish I had. They were Pashley IIRC and I think one of the writers of this parish has one.
Yep – a Pronto – from Pashley
Yep – a Pronto – from Pashley, think you can still get one if you want. Not “cheap” though although good value I’d say. TBH while I’d like to buy local unless I really wanted “unofficially can carry several humans” if I was going to spend the cash I’d probably save a bit more and go for a something from Workcycles – a slightly “lighter and tighter” Secret Service with front carrier. Requirements and tastes vary!
Now though hopefully I won’t get another bike for time – as long as the LBS can fix up my “slightly thieved” Cube Travel Ex.
Public transport is when the
Public transport is when the vehicle you are tavelling in is shared with other members of the public. Private transport is exclusive use at the time of travel.
Mainstream examples:
– bus: public transport
– train: public transport
– bicycle: private transport
– car ferry: public transport
– private jet: private transport
– scheduled airline: public transport
– taxi: private transport
So by your crappy definitions
So by your crappy definitions anything with one passenger in it is not public transport. What a bag of fail!
PS please share the origin of that definition? Was it from the Dept of Making Sh*t up?
I am struggling to come up
I am struggling to come up with an example of a single occpancy public transport option. What ones are you thinking of?
Bike/scooter hire schemes.
Bike/scooter hire schemes.
Privately owned vehicles
Privately owned vehicles operated for profit and privately rented. Is Hertz rent a car public transport?
Busses, trains and car
Busses, trains and car ferries all tend to be privately owned and operated for profit and having thought about it you are right, Hertz are also public transport.
“Busses, trains and car
“Busses, trains and car ferries all tend to be privately owned and operated for profit”
Only since they were privatised. Which time and and time again has been shown to be a bad idea.
Patrick9-32 wrote:
No, but Hertz Van Rental is a little known racing cyclist from the early 20th century.
I’ve got one of his LP’s.
I’ve got one of his LP’s.
perce wrote:
The very great Hank Wangford (aka Sam Hutt, top gynaecologist and president of the Nudist Mountaineering Club, seriously I am not making this up) used to have a lead guitarist whose nom de guerre was Hertz van de Rental. Very good he was too.
TheBillder wrote:
That’s a coincidence, when my dad was in the RN years ago, he knew a couple of guys from the Dutch Navy based here on an exchange programme, one of those was called Hertz Van Rental. The other one was Naafi Van Driver.
Slightly unrelated, but I
Slightly unrelated, but I swear I used to serve with Jack Blair (naval menswear). At least, he always pitched up at the end of the jetty within 5 minutes of the gangway being put in place.
Crap cyclists though!
Patrick9-32 wrote:
A rented car is private transport.
HalfDanHalfBiscuit wrote:
Incorrect.
Boris bike?
Boris bike?
Keep making assumptions.
Keep making assumptions.
Taxis are public transport…
Taxis are public transport… until they are in use, then they are private transport.
Regardless, it makes no sense that they should be able to bypass the LTN restrictions.
Why wouldn’t a taxi be
Why wouldn’t a taxi be public transport?
It’s used by the public … and it’s transport.
However, that shouldn’t give their drivers carte blanche to rat run LTNs on their way to the next pickup or drop off.
Cars, bikes, helicopters etc
Cars, bikes, helicopters etc are used by members and are transport.
To me, the public/private distinction here is “does the passenger choose the destination?” and “can another member of the public join the journey without the passenger’s permission”.
I’m struggling to think of an alternative definition that would count taxis as “public” but (say) a chauffeur-driven car as “private”. Just saying “you can hail it in the public street” doesn’t seem to do the job: I can buy a coffee on the street, but it’s still a privately-owned good if I do.
There is also the definition
There is also the definition of “Taxi” and “Private Hire Vehicle”. Taxi is the black cabs mostly and have more rules allowed for travel like using Taxi Ranks, Bus Lanes (were noted) and other places. They can be waved down at any time.
Private Hire Vehicles are just that, a private car that can be hired to drive you from point A to B. They cannot use taxi ranks to wait, cannot use bus lanes and in theory should follow the exact same rules as you and I. The latter has overtaken the former for usage, especially with the likes of Uber and Bolt and I suspect are the ones being mentioned as allowed through these gates.
I actually find the PVH drivers worse then cabbies for ignoring road signs like No Entry or Turn Left Only as they usually charge fixed prices for pre booked pickup / drop off so want to go as short a distance as possible, both to make more of a profit on the transport and be available as soon as possible for a new fare.
And also in the last few years, the latter ones seem to be registered no where near where they operate. This is both because the councils decided it was a good money raising ploy to register them, and because drivers believe they are less likely to be reported to their registered council area from outside the council.
Quote:
The bike parking in my office building is in the lower basement, only accessible from the open air car park at the rear of the building. There’s an outward opening/locking metal gate, and then behind that is a locking door which opens inward.
A handful of times I’ve walked round from the building front door to the car park to go home, only to find that someone has parked their car too close to the gate so I could maybe just about get into the basement but then wouldn’t be able to get my bike out without taking it apart… So I have to walk back round and start asking in the other offices “Who’s car is <this>? Can they move it because I’d quite like to go home now!”
Hi Road cc – I think you may
Hi Road cc – I think you may need to check your stats re Pog’s TT times:
“setting a time of 29:43 with an average speed of 31.699 km/h for the 15.7km course.”
Either that is incorrect, or there is hope for me yet, as I can go faster than that!!!
NickSprink wrote:
There were 744m of ascent in there too… https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/nc-slovenia-itt/2023/result
ok fair nuff – no hope for me
ok fair nuff – no hope for me after all
Whether or not taxis are
Whether or not taxis are public transport seems irrelevant to me. It makes no sense to say “I can’t drive through here in a car, but I can pay someone else to drive me through here in a car”.
Pretty much. Although it’s
Pretty much. Although it’s sensible to make partial exceptions sometimes e.g. “no cars through here but buses are OK” or “between the hours of…”
But yeah – if it’s a LTN, the point is “no through route”. As others say – you can still drive to any point you want, just not by every route which looks possible on the map.
There’s a UK mindset which says that almost every road has to have two ends. Don’t know why – perhaps it’s to stop drivers (in pre-sat-nav days) getting “stuck”?
How is that any different to
How is that any different to “I can’t drive through here in a car but I can pay a bus driver to drive me through?”
Taxis have far far higher utilisation than private cars – therefore they have a contribution to make to Low(ering) Traffic in Neighbourhoods.
Secret_squirrel wrote:
How can this be? If I drive, it’s a car transporting me. If I take a taxi, it’s a car transporting me and a driver, who has had to drive to pick me up and will have to drive to the next fare. Taxis may spend less time parked (good), but I’m not convinced that they are great news on the congestion front.
A bus takes about the road space of 3 taxis and carries 70+ people when full. Those 3 taxis will take 12. I’d call them Not Very Public transport.
I have long been a fan of
I have long been a fan of Chris Froome, but this is getting ridiculous.
IF the equipment he is being given is genuinely $h!t, but he is the best ride on the squad, then his results would still be better than his teammates and he would be picked. UNLESS he is suggesting he is given inferior equipment to that of his teammates which would be a strange decision in light of his purported salary.
I am afraid he should have accepted his best days were over the first season back post his crash and retired with some dignity.
In case you were wondering I can’t be arsed with the LTN/ Taxi crap today
Entirely missing the point of
Entirely missing the point of LTNs, to stop motorized through traffic.
Low
Low
Traffic
Neighbourhood
The clue is in the name.
Taxis may not be the most desirable form of public transport, but they are definitely public transport.
In what other form of public
In what other form of public transport do you pay someone to take you, and only you/people with you, from exactly where you are to exactly where you specify? You might as well call a second-hand car public transport on the grounds someone else was in it before you.
No, taxis are just chauffeur
No, taxis are just chauffeur car rental per journey. To be public transport the vehicle has to be in public use at the same time, not sequentially.
Incorrect.
Incorrect.
I’m surprised the issue of
I’m surprised the issue of bike hangars being blocked by drivers leaving their vehicles too close hasn’t been raised before (unless I’ve missed it).
You’d think their testing would have highlighted it and the designers/planners worked out that they need yellow “DON’T PARK HERE (unless you like scratches on your vehicle…” markings on the road next to them.
If those are eventually painted on the road and someone still parks there (in a non-emergency) then call the tyre extinguishers.
It’s a disaster from start to
It’s a disaster from start to finish. I fear for safety of my residents. This council should be charged for manslaughter if anything happens. It is a class war,” said a City councillor.
Such a shame that we don’t know the name of this paranoid councillor, but it isn’t clear what he’s referring to: is it installing the LTN in the first place, or removing the bollards and putting in ANPR? I think it’s the former, and if so, since LTNs significantly reduce the risk of KSIs, his outburst seems rather misplaced. But maybe all his constituents are black cab drivers.
“Taxi numbers are predicted
“Taxi numbers are predicted by officers to be low. I don’t accept that taxis always speed; they are professional drivers.”
Must just be in my town that the standard of driving exhibited by taxi drivers is so low. The only time they’re not speeding is when they are waiting at the rank.
BBC R4 “Sliced Bread” cycle
BBC R4 “Sliced Bread” cycle helmets edition https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001n21k
This is my email to them:
Hi Greg,
just listened again to your prog about cycle helmets, and it had serious errors and was extremely biased. The professor from Virginia Tech Labs, Steve Rowson, stated several times that cycle helmets saved lives and that there was overwhelming data to show that, a claim you yourself repeated. The most reliable data, from whole population, long term studies from Australia, the first place to bring in a helmet law, showed that the risk of death rose after the law was brought in. The studies showing massive benefits from helmet wearing are small scale, short term and have methodological shortcomings which mean they are not reliable, something mentioned in the article by David Speigelhalter and Ben Goldacre which you mention later.
After Dr Ian Walker was interviewed, Steve Rowson was allowed to criticise his findings, but Steve Rowson’s conclusions were taken as being absolutely true, when they are at the very least, questionable. Steve Rowson was given considerably more time than Dr Walker and his views are no more valid than Dr Walker’s.
You mentioned the national cycling organisation, CUK, but interviewed nobody from them, and didn’t challenge Steve Rowson when you asked him about their views and he simply ignored them and repeated his mantra about helmets saving lives.
You seem to think that the controversy over helmets started with Dr Walker’s 2006 paper on how much closer drivers get if you wear a helmet, but it has been raging for many years before that, basically because of the worst of bad science used to justify laws and promotion. The claims of helmet promoters have been proved wrong time and time again, e.g. 85% reduction in deaths, but they are still repeated by people who haven’t looked at the actual effects of cycle helmets at a population level.
You also mentioned David Speigelhalter and Ben Goldacre’s work, without saying what their conclusions were, which is rather odd, or was it because they found that cycle helmets are not effective?
Neither was the question raised of why cycling should be singled out for such an intervention, when it is not particularly productive of head injuries and is safer than many other common activities. Walking for instance has the same death rate for distance travelled as cycling, and many more car occupants die from head injuries than do cyclists, so it would save more lives if they wore helmets.
The only detectable effects of helmet laws and promotion is a reduction in the number of cyclists, who then lose the gigantic health benefits, and obscene profits for the helmet manufacturers and sellers.
No helmet sceptic was interviewed, only helmet promoters, so the entire programme was grossly biased.
I hope that you will be correcting these errors very soon, or I will be making yet another complaint about the decades long bias of the BBC about cycle helmets.
If you would like to make a rather more factual article about cycle helmets, I’d be happy to contribute.