How safe is this helmet? That’s probably the question most of you ask when buying a new helmet, beyond such factors as weight, ventilation, fit adjustment and style.
Now new research by Virginia Tech in the US sheds some interesting light on how helmets perform in a crash test.
– Cycling helmets — everything you need to know
It tested 30 adult sized helmets using an impact simulator designed to recreate the most common head-impact scenarios on the road, dropping helmets onto an angled anvil in six different locations and at two impact speeds. Sensors measured the acceleration and rotational velocity so it was able to predict the head injury risk.
The helmets were then ranked, from five stars for the best ability to reduced head and neck injury, down to two stars, the lowest ranking in this test.

And the results of the test show the Bontrager Ballista MIPs tops the list with five stars, followed by the Louis Garneau Raid MIPS, Bell Stratus MIPS and Specialized Chamonix MIPS also on five stars.
All scoring four stars were the Specialized Prevail II, Smith Optics Overtake, POC Octal, Giro Synthe and Scott Arx Plus MIPS.
Lower down the list there’s a cluster of urban helmets such as the Giro Sutton MIPS, Bern Brentwood, Kali City, Bontrager Electra and Nutcase Street.
Not fairing so well is the Bern Watts, bottom of the list with two stars. The Lazer Genesis doesn’t score much better.
You can view the full list here
Are you surprised by the results? An expensive helmet topping the list might be expected, but the much cheaper Specialized Chamonix helmet performing nearly as well is very interesting and indicates that a higher price tag doesn’t always result in a safer helmet.
Through the testing of 30 helmets the Virginia Tech researchers noticed trends. It says that road-style helmets performance better than rounded urban helmets, which is why the likes of the Ballista is at the top and the Bern urban helmet is towards the bottom.
It also reckons MIPS improves helmet performance in these tests. MIPS stands for Multi-Directional Impact Protection System. A MIPS helmet is claimed to offer additional protection against rotational forces in a crash, by allowing two layers of the helmet to move independently. It’s increasingly common in top-end helmets.
– 8 of the best cheap cycling helmets — decent lids that don’t cost a fortune
The organisation has spent the last few years testing various sporting equipment for safety, from football to hockey helmets. For this cycle helmet test it was supported by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, who lent expertise in analysing common crashes, as well as providing financial support.
It’s the first such comparative test that we can recall seeing here at road.cc that attempts to rate helmets by the level of protection they offer. Helmets have to be tested before they go on sale, but’s very much a pass or fail thing, there’s no indication whether a £200 helmet is better in a crash than a £20 helmet, or how two £100 helmets compare to each other for example.
In the European Union, helmets must meet the EN 1078 standard, which calls for a deceleration of no more than 250g to be transmitted to the head in an impact at 5.42-5.52 m/s (a little over 12 mph). The standard involves impacts on a flat surface and a kerbstone.
In the US a Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) standard applies. The two are roughly equivalent in terms of impact absorption.
– When should I replace my bike helmet?
“But which helmets are most effective? Until now, there hasn’t been a systematic way for consumers to know. Every bike helmet on the market is required to meet a standard related to the impact threshold for exceptionally severe head injuries, like skull fractures.
But that standard is pass-fail, and didn’t help cyclists discriminate between hundreds of passing helmets; it also didn’t assess helmet performance during less-severe impacts, which are far more common and can still result in concussions and other injuries,” explains Virginia Tech.
“In cycling, we saw an opportunity to reach a broad cross-section of the public and bring a new level of safety to an activity with a wide range of other benefits. We also hope manufacturers will use the information to make improvements,” said Steve Rowson, an associate professor of biomedical engineering and mechanics in the College of Engineering and the helmet lab’s director.
It’s interesting research and sheds clear light on how helmet tests are lacking. I’d like to see a Euro NCAP-style test for helmets with much more transparency about the results so the consumer can make a much more informed choice.
The research team says it’s planning to test more helmets so we’ll keep an eye out for those results.
Will these findings influence your next helmet purchasing decision?

93 thoughts on “How safe is your helmet? New study rates them, Bontrager Ballista MIPS comes out on top”
Strap yourself in lads!
Strap yourself in lads!
I’m awaiting the BTBS counter study in which he bounced his head off a concrete floor 100 times in succession and still posted in a coherent manner.
Yorkshire wallet wrote:
I assume that’s his usual routine before posting anything tbh…
Yorkshire wallet wrote:
I look forward to YW making a factual, reasoned, logical post, but judging from experience, I’ll be waiting a long time.
I really like the idea of
I really like the idea of this test and it
wouldwill definitely influence what helmetI’dI’ll buy in the future. It seems like a very sensible protocol and the Virginia Tech have experience of testing helmets in other sports. Ideally, they’d start testing all the helmets on the market today, but obviously that would be prohibitively expensive.It is great to see this
It is great to see this happening and I hope the industry funds more studies and learns from this. For nearly everyone buying a helmet, it is not about weight or aerodynamics, it is about when something happens, having the best available equipment to protect you. Also, if you can afford it, GET A HELMET WITH MIPS!!!
The_Vermonter wrote:
I am not sure about that. There are many factors I will consider on my next helmet purchase and safety/crash protection is just one of them.
Other factors include (not in any order):
If it scores the highest on safety but low on other key factors then I would not buy and chose something that balances out. It is different from person to person how much weighting they put on each factor, but if safety was the only consideration then wouldn’t we see more full face helmets on road cyclists then any other types?
erm, that ‘device’ was
erm, that ‘device’ was pulling down on the helmet… not pushing down using the head at impact…
Good to know(ish), as I have
Good to know(ish), as I have the Ballista MIPS.
I still doubt the helmet is going to be of any use to me in the event I do crash at any significant speed :/
An interesting test, but it
An interesting test, but it does not reflect realistic circumstances in a real life collision e.g. no forward motion. There have been similar laboratory tests for thirty years all of which show that helmets protect to some degree, but the death rate of cyclists does not fall as helmet wearing rates increase, so the tests must be irrelevant. These tests might be demonstrating the possibility that the helmet makes you safer, but they have not demonstrated that they do actually make you safer.
If laboratory tests show one thing, but the real life results are completely different, which one is right?
burtthebike wrote:
We’ve been over this Burt.
In the UK the death rate for cyclists fell as the helmet wearing rate rose.
Why keep posting something which has been shown to be false?
.
.
Rich_cb wrote:
An interesting test, but it does not reflect realistic circumstances in a real life collision e.g. no forward motion. There have been similar laboratory tests for thirty years all of which show that helmets protect to some degree, but the death rate of cyclists does not fall as helmet wearing rates increase, so the tests must be irrelevant.
If laboratory tests show one thing, but the real life results are completely different, which one is right?
— Rich_cb We’ve been over this Burt. In the UK the death rate for cyclists fell as the helmet wearing rate rose. Why keep posting something which has been shown to be false?— burtthebike
Because there is much more reliable evidence which shows the opposite.
burtthebike wrote:
That may or may not be true.
It doesn’t change the fact that your original statement is demonstrably false.
You know this yet you keep reposting it.
If the evidence you’ve got is so good why post lies?
Rich_cb wrote:
Because there is much more reliable evidence which shows the opposite.
— Rich_cb That may or may not be true. It doesn’t change the fact that your original statement is demonstrably false. You know this yet you keep reposting it. If the evidence you’ve got is so good why post lies?— burtthebike
Because it isn’t a lie? All the long term, large scale, scientific, reliable studies show at best no benefit from mass helmet wearing, and the biggest ever study found an increase in risk with helmet wearing. I’ll be waiting for the apology for calling me a liar.
burtthebike wrote:
Your statement which I highlighted was false.
You knew it was false.
You made a statement that you knew was false.
Pretty much the dictionary definition of a lie.
Rich_cb wrote:
Because it isn’t a lie? All the long term, large scale, scientific, reliable studies show at best no benefit from mass helmet wearing, and the biggest ever study found an increase in risk with helmet wearing. I’ll be waiting for the apology for calling me a liar.
— Rich_cb Your statement which I highlighted was false. You knew it was false. You made a statement that you knew was false. Pretty much the dictionary definition of a lie.— burtthebike
Sorry, I’m not continuing this nonsense any further. As Thomas Paine said “To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead.”
burtthebike wrote:
Posts a lie.
Can’t back it up.
Standard Burt.
burtthebike wrote:
Have you heard the phrase ‘dammed lies and statistics’?
Hitting your head on something hard fucking hurts so it doesn’t make sense to argue against even the poorest helmet.
burtthebike wrote:
“but the death rate of cyclists does not fall as helmet wearing rates increase, so the tests must be irrelevant. “….
And there goes your logical fallacy. As you’ve stated multiple times, helmets are not designed, and are no use in really high impact (approaching fatal) collisions. Their value is in reducing concussion injury likelihood, and reducing minor injuries. No-one ever expected your helmet to protect you from the multiple injuries of being run into by a car at speed. However they can, and will, protect you from some of the head injuries possible when falling off your bike, or running into other objects, and that’s what these tests show: That the helmets protect heads and brains from some of the effects of moderate impacts. There is little debate that this individual protection is gained at the expense of the health of the wider cycling community, and the wider general population when helmet wearing is heavily promoted or mandated. That doesn’t mean that helmets offer no protection when used in the appropriate manner, nor does it mean that helmets are bad for cyclists. As seen across multiple platforms (including dietary advice of the 70’s to 90’s) poorly concieved legislation and guidelines can have massive population health costs when what is good for the individual is applied across whole populations. These are 2 very basic points that you have failed to be able to grasp and differentiate from your base argument.
madcarew wrote:
I think this is a really key point, and, respectfully, I think you’re wrong.
WE might expect this of a helmet. But WE are a fraction of a miserably low modal share.
Do a straw poll… Colleagues, rellies, friends, people in the pub/street. THEY think cycling is dangerous, THEY expect silver-bullet properties of a helmet, THEY are the ones we need to encourage cycling if it’s to reach its potential, and THEY are legion. WE are few.
davel wrote:
Which is exactly the reason I did my dissertation “Do cyclists have an exaggerated view of the risks of cycling and the efficacy of cycle helmets [and are those views related]? As you say, most people think cycling is extremely dangerous, but that a helmet will make them safe, neither of which is true, but an excellent demonstration of the effects of thirty years of helmet propaganda.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjQ_c3WqvjbAhWMX8AKHecuBQ0QFggrMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.uwe.ac.uk%2Ffaculties%2FFET%2FResearch%2Fcts%2Fcycling-society%2FRichard-Burton.PDF&usg=AOvVaw29CQ6bjV6s9QaG_RipS5YS
burtthebike wrote:
So the outstanding thesis for me, is ‘do non-cyclists have an exaggerated view of the risks of cycling, and how do we put the Daily Mail out of business?’ 🙂
davel wrote:
I agree with this. My wife (my personal equivalent to that fabled gent on the Clapham omnibus) is of the opinion that I’m mad to go out on the roads without a bike helmet. However, she said she’s happy for me to pootle around the village or on shared-use infra without one. So, she thinks that when I’m cycling at low speeds or in scarse traffic, I don’t need one, but in busy traffic-filled environments I should wear one. I’ve tried to explain that actually it should be the other way around: a bike helmet might protect me from low speed falling off whereas it will not protect me from a bus.
brooksby wrote:
Mrs M is of the same opinion and I am beginning to suspect she has an ulterior motive in hiding it. Which again is odd, because whenever I suggest playing “hide the helmet” she has something else she’d rather be doing.
Mungecrundle wrote:
I agree with this. My wife (my personal equivalent to that fabled gent on the Clapham omnibus) is of the opinion that I’m mad to go out on the roads without a bike helmet. However, she said she’s happy for me to pootle around the village or on shared-use infra without one. So, she thinks that when I’m cycling at low speeds or in scarse traffic, I don’t need one, but in busy traffic-filled environments I should wear one. I’ve tried to explain that actually it should be the other way around: a bike helmet might protect me from low speed falling off whereas it will not protect me from a bus.
— davel Mrs M is of the same opinion and I am beginning to suspect she has an ulterior motive in hiding it. Which again is odd, because whenever I suggest playing “hide the helmet” she has something else she’d rather be doing.— madcarew
It’s peak barbecue season… Try hide the sausage.
brooksby wrote:
My only two genuine brushes with KSI (one only yesterday evening) have come while riding on a shared use pathway. In yesterday’s case, a car pulled straight across the path in front of me and stopped, as the gate was closed, less than 10 feet ahead, leaving me to (a) run straight into the side of her car at whatever speed I could slow to from the 15 mph I was doing and risk going through the side window or (b) keep my speed and swerve behind her car, down the kerb into oncoming traffic going at 40mph.
I picked (b) and was glad that I haven’t been kidding myself for the last seven years about how good my bike handling skills are.
If either scenario had resulted in a crash, I am not convinced my helmet would have helped very much.
And sorry if that is slightly off-topic. Just needed to get it off my chest …
davel wrote:
I agree with you 100% which is why I disagree with mandating helmet wearing. I would support the advertising for wearing of helmets if the advertisers could be relied upon to objectively market them……..
madcarew wrote:
burtthebike wrote:
Burt – quick question please. You mention this in the context of the helmet as PPE, do you have any non-demographically varying evidence that shows this ? e.g. hypothetically that increased rotational injuries out-weigh a reduction in concussive deceleration.
fukawitribe wrote:
Burt – quick question please. You mention this in the context of the helmet as PPE, do you have any non-demographically varying evidence that shows this ? e.g. hypothetically that increased rotational injuries out-weigh a reduction in concussive deceleration.— burtthebike
Quick answer; yes.
You do know that the H&S Executive have excluded cycle helmets from the designation PPE?
burtthebike wrote:
Umm.. any chance of a link or copy ? Cheers
fukawitribe wrote:
Sorry, too hot, don’t care enough, beer in the fridge with my name on it. Might get around to it tomorrow if I start caring enough. What exactly do you mean by “non-demographic”?
burtthebike wrote:
OK, I thought you might have something to hand from your thesis or other research – let us know if you have something, appreciate that. Sorry for confusion about “non-demographically varying” – not phrased well perhaps, maybe ‘demographically invariant’ or the same/equivalent societal study group, e.g. the Australian mandatory helmet legislation statistics told us a lot about how toxic it was for cycling in general but basically nothing about helmets as safety equipment. Any study with an equivalent, or comparable, demographic and varying (non-mandated) helmet wear might be a good start. Cheers, going to my fridge now.
fukawitribe wrote:
Hey Burt – any luck on a link ? If not, would you have a photocopy or similar of your dissertation cititations and I can try and pick it out from there. Tah.
burtthebike wrote:
Burt, my apologies, I was initially mixing BTB up with BTBS, and you were doing so well until your last paragraph:
“I have said many times that helmets do offer some protection,”
“You imply that wearing a helmet is good for the individual, but there is no evidence that this is true,”
If a helmet prevents stitches, broken skulls, concussion, (which is surely the benefit you have many times suggested that helmets offer) then that is good for the individual. However, the epidemiological effects of insisting on it may provide no net advantage to the individual, and a massive net detriment to the population due to behaviour modification. Having read your dissertation, I’m sure that you can see this most obvious of truths.
For completeness:
The tests do not pretend to measure the prevention of cycist deaths, nor the efficacy of helmets in preventing that, therefore the logical fallacy is to compare the test outcomes to the death rate. There are no linking factors.
Can you show me any promotion from any responsible source that shows that death prevention is likely, or even the sole expectation from helmet protection as you assert?
You repeated my 2 points and then claimed you couldn’t see them. I don’t believe it’s patronising in those circumstances to suggest that you refuse to acknowledge them.
Cyclists are individuals, Wearing a helmet confers some benefit (as you’ve stated multiple times) to a cyclist.
Helmet laws, and indeed the promotion of helmet wearing is bad for the cycling community, and the larger population, which we both agree on.
That’s the 2 points, which you seem unable or unwilling to separate.
madcarew wrote:
burtthebike wrote:
You drank the koolaid that some drunken scientist in Austrialia came up with so he could sell books to buy more booze with!
Instead of reading some drunken study why not go yourself down to any emergency room in your city and ask the emergency doctor on duty if helmets on cyclists help to save their lives and than I dare you speak negative about helmets effectiveness after that. But I can tell from your ignorance to know about such things you won’t go and talk to EMT doctors, so maybe you might read the rest of this and the sites I gave, but I would be surprised if you actually did because most people want to bathe in their ignorance.
While you’re visiting those EMT doctors read this: https://bicycleuniverse.info/stats-behind-bicycle-helmet/
Of course wearing a helmet won’t guarantee that you’ll live, nor does it equate to one willing to take more risks while riding; this isn’t any different than wearing a seatbelt in a car loaded with airbags and crush zones, all the seatbelts and airbags along with crumple zones still doesn’t guarantee that you’ll survive a car crash, nor does it make everyone drive like they are on a NASCAR track. Helmets don’t prevent crashes, but they offer a last line of defense when things go wrong, the same is true with wearing seatbelts and having airbags in your car. People who say such things are…well I’ll skip saying what I’m thinking.
More reading: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-bicycles-helmets/helmets-prevent-severe-head-injuries-in-bike-accidents-idUSKCN10U1LY
Remember too is that bicycle helmet is made really too light in weight to be effective in a high speed crash with a car, we can’t ride a bike while wearing a motorcycle helmet it would be far to hot and we wouldn’t be able to hold our heads up for very long, so they are made very light and this limits their effectiveness, however wearing a helmet is better then having no protection whatsoever, and even wearing a motorcycle helmet won’t guarantee you’ll survive.
The reason that cyclists injuries have gone up over the years is two fold, one is that there are many more cyclists are on the road these days because the sport is becoming more popular, also more gray hair people are riding bikes, and older people don’t fair as well in head accidents as younger people do, even what could be a minor laugh it off with a headache crash to a 20 something person could potentially kill a 70 something plus person; in fact it is the 60 to 79 year old population that is LEADING the cycling purchase boom! And it’s those people, including myself, that have a hugely increased danger, or risk, from a head trauma should our heads impact something; and in addition to that, the older population does not have the balance they once had in their youth, nor the reaction time they once had in their youth so accidents have increased involving the older people, and along with those increase accidents has been increased injury and deaths. So statistics showing that injuries and deaths have increased with helmet use are not isolating the age of the riders, the increase is coming from the increased older population riding.
Here is more to read: https://bigthink.com/neurobonkers/the-bike-helmet-paradox
froze wrote:
My MSc dissertation was on cycle helmets, and it listed, from memory, about a hundred references. I have a google alert for new material, and I’ve read everything publicly available about cycle helmets that I can find. Your definition of ignorance doesn’t appear to be in any dictionary.
The fallacies in your post were too many to list, but all of it was questionable and it was the usual helmet zealot stuff of accusing anyone with a different view of being ignorant.
When you’ve spent thirty years studying cycle helmets, road safety and cyclists’ safety, you can call someone else ignorant. Until then STFU.
burtthebike wrote:
Please post your MSc dissertation online so we can all read it.
bikeman01 wrote:
He’s posted a link to it in this thread.
You know, I’m starting to like the cut of your jib. I appreciate people who keep me on my toes, and in your case I can’t quite tell if you’re a troll cunt or just a thick cunt.
davel wrote:
I’d missed it earlier too, here’s the link posted
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjQ_c3WqvjbAhWMX8AKHecuBQ0QFggrMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.uwe.ac.uk%2Ffaculties%2FFET%2FResearch%2Fcts%2Fcycling-society%2FRichard-Burton.PDF&usg=AOvVaw29CQ6bjV6s9QaG_RipS5YS
Edit : my mistake, that’s a link to a brief of the dissertation – bottom of that has a link to an email address to contact to get a copy.
froze wrote:
Froze. Unfortunately you don’t seem to realise that the plural of anecdote is anecdata, not evidence.
The first paragraph of your bicycle universe link is fundamentally wrong, and then their statistics are analysed with the usual journalistic enthusiasm, and are fundamentally unsound.
Your second link is a journailst’s article and doesn’t state the study, so it is difficult to check her conclusions, though her quotes suggest that what she presents is not directly in line with the study
Simon Oxenham’s article is simply an opinion piece and adds weight to the idea that helmets prevent direct injury, but concedes that mandating helmet wearing for cyclists may not be fair handed, or even good for the population.
I have spoken to ED doctors, in fact a few of them are my friends and we ride on the same team, in the same club, and in the same races. They universally agree that wearing helmets prevents some injuries, and on that basis they always wear one; and they are split in the same way as the general community on the effectiveness of helmet laws and the benefit to the commjnity. The cardiac surgeon believes that helmet laws are a really bad thing, especially for children; the neurosurgeon believes that helmet laws are a blunt instrument but better than not. These are real doctors, and their real opinions.
I am very much enjoying
I am very much enjoying hawkinspeter’s new squirrel pictures.
They bring great relevance to these debates.
I don’t see that as a
I don’t see that as a representative test either, as mentioned above, one is going to have a different trajectory to the head in the video, and I’m NOT sure that in such an accident a helmet would be beneficial. Even plod say that you are going to be skidding along the floor leaving lumps of scalp, so I really don’t know who to believe, it seems inconclusive either way.
EDIT: There should have been a NOT in there somewhere. Feel free to remove the likes. Sorry for the confusion (must’ve been a, etc, etc…).
don simon wrote:
Oh my, a sensible, well-balanced view on a bicycle helmet thread!
I can only my best judgement to extrapolate from these slow speed tests that helmets are most likely beneficial if you fall over and bump your head in a low-speed crash (probably not involving another vehicle/object). This, I believe, is probably applicable to the sorts of bumps that “casual” cyclists are involved in – a couple of my friends/family who are casual cyclists have done something similar.
In contrast, I think the type of crash I’m concerned about – high-speed collisions with things (i.e. a car pulling in front of me whilst I’m cycling around 30mph), a helmet is going to do little more than stop my head scraping along the ground. So it will potentially stop grazes etc, but it wont prevent the catastrophic damage sustained in a high speed crash (as we can tell from the cause of some pro cyclists’ deaths in collisions).
All in all, as don simon says, it seems inconclusive.
Canyon48 wrote:
To be fair to the researchers, looking at the test methodolgoy they have deliberately tried to formulate the impact angles and speeds to be in representative ranges of what they, and others, have found from analysis of real-world incidents and crash data, as well as helmet damage reconstruction experiments. It might well be that that analysis could be flawed, but it seems to be from a number of sources and may not be too far from reality – i’m not qualified to know or not, but it is mentioned in their text and citations, e.g.
I certainly agree with you in that i’d like to see far more testing for higher speeds impacts – and that’s where things are heading far more firmly into injury mitigation rather than prevention – but this is at least more data and that’s hopefully a good thing.
PS. canyon48 – the reply you quoted was the one with the missing “NOT”, don’t know if that was relevant.
Canyon48 wrote:
I left my bike whilst travelling at 40mph, broke leg on crash barrier and shoulder, clavicle et al rearranged by a roadside metal pole (for snow depth) as was my helmet. Minor concussion suggests the helmet at least helped.
This test will probably do little to change the views of the pro/anti types but if you’re buying then surely the more info the better.
alansmurphy wrote:
Damn, that sounds nasty, worryingly that could’ve been a hell of a lot worst.
And yeah, agreed more info = better.
Canyon48 wrote:
A weird one; too fast, brakes the wrong way round, ran out of talent, diabetes and piss poor blood sugars the night before.
Even the collision. I didn’t think i lost conciousness but the video suggests I may have. Tried to get up and ride, French people told me not to. The crash barrier was running out and i decided hitting it beat seeing what was over the side, wasn’t expecting the snow pole though! And still weirdly, smashed shoulder and leg, and not another mark on me, no skidding (leave it) just hit 2 things bloody hard!
Have the smashed helmet pics that suggest it probably helped, I know some will say it increased my circumference and my head may not have hit it. Either way, given the outcomes i’m more than grateful for it. And, i commute without a helmet, do quick rides with one…
The debate is relatively pointless, the propoganda damaging.
Yawn, unless there is a prize
Yawn, unless there is a prize for the 100th post in the thread I’m not interested. No minds will be changed on these threads.
Leviathan wrote:
Almost certainly. But….
as someone who only wears one occasionally (I’ll spare you the details of why), seeing more varied tests being done is a good thing. Hopefully ratings like these should help buyers and prompt the industry to up its game. I also hope that, as several MIPS lids have scored well, perhaps it means that we can eventually decide whether MIPS is more than merely product hype.
On the other hand, I sincerely hope it does not fuel the drive for compulsion by legislators, who have no interest in our safety, only restricting our liberty.
No foul play can be called on
No foul play can be called on my part though, my suspisions were raised when someone quoted me and was full of praise.
No foul play can be called on
Stupid double posting shite internet crap!
don simon wrote:
Self criticism can be invaluable at times.
hirsute wrote:
Indeed, it shows a level of self awareness, something lacking in these parts.
I made the mistake of
I made the mistake of watching football last night. Didn’t wear a lid and fuck me my head hurts this morning. Wear a lid.
I made the mistake of
I made the mistake of watching football last night. Didn’t wear a lid and fuck me my head hurts this morning. Wear a lid.
Once. Not twice. Drink sambuka once also.
It’s funny, but most of the
It’s funny, but most of the things I enjoy doing require some sort of head protection and I therefore have a collection of brain buckets for kayaking, cycling, rock climbing, snowboarding and motorcycling.
In EVERY case, I know that the helmet won’t protect me from every concievable incident and can, in fact, introduce some other risks – e.g. strangulation if the helmet gets stuck – but, on a few occasions, I have been very glad I’ve been wearing one and will therefore continue to do so.
Wearing a helmet would have prevented me ending up in minor injuries with a fin cut in my head while surfing. That’s one sport where helmet wearing really is in the minority, despite the obvious risks.
I could really have done with one last weekend when I got hit on the head with a garden tool – fortunately by the plastic handle and not by the pointy steel business end!
From your first linked
From your first linked article
Why aren’t you trying to get drivers to stop running over cyclists instead of using statistics (I have heard that statistics can be manipulated and distorted to support both argiments) to try and support your position?
A second quote from your debate ending article.
Did these people die from head injuries? (I’ll give you a clue: the article doesn’t say.
I stopped wasting my time after that point.
Here’s a fact: In fortyfive years, and many kms of riding, a helmet has not once saved my life.
I have a broken thumb from an MTB accident; the helmet did fuck all.
I have various scars on my legs from MTBing accidents; the helmet did fuck all.
So there’s two cycling accidents to throw in those bullshit statistics.
I think I’ll excercise my right to making up my own mind rather than being patronised.
Just orderd a Bell Stratus MIPS based on this
In Hi-Viz ’cause that gives me a reason to wear one (the chance of a crash on any one trip being minute). I realise that wearing a lid makes me feel safer, and that proabably means I am less risk averse……
In any event I am sure my airbag is much more effective, but frequently I wear neither of these.
@Burt – can I ask you a
@Burt – can I ask you a simple question – if your head was about to smack into concrete would you prefer to be wearing a helmet, or rely on your anti-helmet arguments?
The problem with your endless “helmets are useless and you’re all stupid” argument, is that you’re polarising the debate rather than changing people’s opinions. Which is a shame because what, I think, you’re trying to highlight IS really important.
AndyRed3d wrote:
Find me a single quote where I said “helmets are useless and you’re all stupid” and you might have a case. Until then STFU you ignorant imbecile. I apologise to all my readers for my restraint.
AndyRed3d wrote:
The problem with your analysis/pro helmet argument is that it’s massively flawed. What bit of not being in the incident to start with (increased due to helmet wearing/adorning a a so called safety device) and increasing the size and weight of your head so increases chances of a head strike in the first instance do you not understand?
Your simple/naive question is utterly meaningless, extrapolate from that and you must of course apply the same to the other 1.3million other people whom report to hospitals/GP surguries etc every year.
Do you apply that thinking re helmets to any other walk of life where you can and statisically have a chance of banging your head, if not why not? Consider the 160,000+ admissions for serious head injuries, now compare that to the circa 1000 cycling head injuries. Do you ask the question of those who travel in a motorvehicle who don’t wear helmets, what about children who die in greater numbers due to head injury alone than all child deaths on bike? What about children head injuries/deaths in playgrounds, both in school and outside of school? Do you ask the same question about people who go out at night, what about old/inform people, do you ask them the same question if they might trip and smash their head onto concrete. Wait, I bet you ask that same question of the family of a loved one whom was walking on the footway/footpath when a motorist crashed into them and they smashed their head in against the pavement, did you ask the husband in the charlie alliston case that question, because she smashed her skull on concrete. Wait, I bet you ask a similar question of women if they don’t wear an anti rape device when they go out at night, or even in the home where many women are raped.
What about stab victims, have you followed up with well if they were a wearing a stab vest.
Sorry but your ‘well if you smashed your head against concrete’ IS stupid and total bollocks.
Yorkshire Wallet, you’re a pathetic plank.
BehindTheBikesheds wrote:
I know the heat is getting to me, and apparently other people, but I absolutely concur with this post. Some of us post facts while the rest of you post anecdotes as if they were somehow equivalent. Grow up for C’s sake.
burtthebike wrote:
You post lies and exaggerations.
I’ve looked in to your claims about the ‘largest study ever’.
It’s nonsense.
All the study showed was a correlation between the estimated sales of one brand of helmet and an estimated increase in cyclist injuries.
That’s it.
No proof of causation. Just a correlation between two sets of estimated figures.
It’s ridiculously weak evidence.
You go on and on about Thompson, Rivera and Thompson being poorly scrutinised but then blithely post these findings as fact.
Why are you trying to deceive people Burt?
Discussion of the study contents here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bicycle_helmet/Archive_4#Reversion_of_the_description_of_the_Rodgers_1988_study_by_User:Harvey4931
Rich_cb wrote:
I know the heat is getting to me, and apparently other people, but I absolutely concur with this post. Some of us post facts while the rest of you post anecdotes as if they were somehow equivalent. Grow up for C’s sake.
— Rich_cb You post lies and exaggerations. I’ve looked in to your claims about the ‘largest study ever’. It’s nonsense. All the study showed was a correlation between the estimated sales of one brand of helmet and an estimated increase in cyclist injuries. That’s it. No proof of causation. Just a correlation between two sets of estimated figures. It’s ridiculously weak evidence. You go on and on about Thompson, Rivera and Thompson being poorly scrutinised but then blithely post these findings as fact. Why are you trying to deceive people Burt? Discussion of the study contents here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bicycle_helmet/Archive_4#Reversion_of_the_description_of_the_Rodgers_1988_study_by_User:Harvey4931— burtthebike
Troll.
burtthebike wrote:
You try to deliberately mislead people over and over again yet I’m the troll?
Is anything I’ve posted inaccurate?
Rich_cb wrote:
Troll.
— Rich_cb You try to deliberately mislead people over and over again yet I’m the troll? Is anything I’ve posted inaccurate?— burtthebike
BTB is simply myopic. Can’t see beyond the end of his own dissertation.
Rich_cb wrote:
I know the heat is getting to me, and apparently other people, but I absolutely concur with this post. Some of us post facts while the rest of you post anecdotes as if they were somehow equivalent. Grow up for C’s sake.
— Rich_cb You post lies and exaggerations. I’ve looked in to your claims about the ‘largest study ever’. It’s nonsense. All the study showed was a correlation between the estimated sales of one brand of helmet and an estimated increase in cyclist injuries. That’s it. No proof of causation. Just a correlation between two sets of estimated figures. It’s ridiculously weak evidence. You go on and on about Thompson, Rivera and Thompson being poorly scrutinised but then blithely post these findings as fact. Why are you trying to deceive people Burt? Discussion of the study contents here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bicycle_helmet/Archive_4#Reversion_of_the_description_of_the_Rodgers_1988_study_by_User:Harvey4931— burtthebike
Thank you for that, I hadn’t seen the excellent critique of Rodgers’ paper. Still, it’s a model of accuracy compared to the “research” done by Thompson, Rivara and Thompson, which basically started the helmet hysteria and was used to justify laws in Australia and New Zealand.
Have you considered moderating your language? Calling people liars because they disagree with you is hardly likely to win many friends, or arguments.
burtthebike wrote:
Rodgers’ paper is essentially worthless. The data is ancient and the methodology so poor that any findings have no value whatsoever.
I call you a liar because you consistently repeat statements that you know are untrue.
You claim that there was no correlation between rising helmet use and declining KSIs in the UK.
That is demonstrably untrue yet you repeat the claim ad nauseum.
One question, in all helmet
One question, in all helmet tests I have seen a disembodied head is strapped into a helmet and dropped, has ayone ever done tests using a full “crash test dummy” strapped into a hemlet and made to fall off a bike?
Wake me when they introduce a
Wake me when they introduce a helmet that doesn’t cause drivers to drive more dangerously around me when wearing a helmet due to ‘risk compensation’.
Ps, I won’t know when you reply because I’m not some magical mind-reader.
ScienceNordic
Ho hum!
http://sciencenordic.com/should-bicycle-helmets-be-mandatory
Rouleur126 wrote:
“do a front flip when a shopping bag swinging from your handlebars snags in your spokes,”
Perhaps the safety research needs to be redirected.
Aller à velo – faire les courses.
Bags on handlebars. Whatever next? The Velominati would have something to say about that! It is impossible to legislate for those that put themselves at risk.
Rouleur126 wrote:
“New research shows that cyclists reduce their risk of head injuries by 60 percent when they wear helmets,…”
Except that it wasn’t new research, it was a meta-analysis of other studies, and we all know the problem with meta-analyses don’t we? It all depends on which studies you chose, and all you have to do is draw the criteria for inclusion so that anything you don’t like is excluded.
While I’m not saying that this definitely is the case here, I’ve seen it done enough times for the suspicion to be more than a nagging doubt e.g. The Cochrane Review, done by the grandaddies of helmet promotion which included all their own research, but excluded anything which didn’t prove their pre-decided conclusions and broke every rule of Cochrane Reviews.
I carried a watering can in
I carried a watering can in one hand and cycled across town at rush hour yesterday, incredibly I didn’t die, christ I’ve even carried a full sized bike box from the back of Halfords before, mind, you need a good grip hold and not choose a windy day!
IMHO there is a problem with
IMHO there is a problem with these best in test results, in the same manner as there is with cycle shoes. That is that body shape is not taken into account. The items are useless if they move on the head / are too tight or in the case of shoes are too small / not wide enough. When will testers start taking this into account, by for instance showing head and foot shape symbols?
cycling ksi have risen by
cycling ksi have risen by more than increases in miles travelled (using 2005-2009 government stats) all the while helmet wearing has increased multiple times over since 2005. yup they’ve worked a treat!
BehindTheBikesheds wrote:
I’m glad you’re so au fait with the UK helmet use and cyclist KSI statistics.
Burt claims there has never been a period of rising helmet use and simultaneous falling KSIs.
Maybe you could tell him what happened in the UK between 1995 and 2005?
Rich_cb wrote:
.
Fuck it
Rich_cb wrote:
cycling ksi have risen by more than increases in miles travelled (using 2005-2009 government stats) all the while helmet wearing has increased multiple times over since 2005. yup they’ve worked a treat!
— Rich_cb I’m glad you’re so au fait with the UK helmet use and cyclist KSI statistics. Burt claims there has never been a period of rising helmet use and simultaneous falling KSIs. Maybe you could tell him what happened in the UK between 1995 and 2005?— BehindTheBikesheds
oi oi Richie, I smell a dodgy correlation.
davel wrote:
Burt denies the correlation exists.
I’m just pointing out that it does.
davel wrote:
*
Rich_cb wrote:
Your best contribution to date, keep it up!
davel wrote:
*
BehindTheBikesheds wrote:
Pretty much correct, there is no correlation between helmet wearing and cycle safety.
It can be seen that, for Australia, it’s clear the increased use of bicycle helmets had little to no effect on cycle safety.
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/jpg/1139_1.jpg
The same is true for NZ.
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/jpg/1139_2.jpg
It’s also clear from the UK gov’s stats that cycle deaths are falling (very slightly) whilst the amount of KSI’s is too scattered to make any judgements.
There is no statistical case for helmets.
I wear a helmet much for the same reason that I wear gloves – if I fall off, I’ll have some sort of padding, so it should hurt less, it’ll also stop road rash.
A helmet won’t save my life if I’m mowed down by a car though.
Canyon48 wrote:
UK 1995-2005.
The graph to squirrel ratio
The graph to squirrel ratio on this thread is all wrong.
CygnusX1 wrote:
Noisy bastards.
Noisy bastards.
On a more serious note, chaps
On a more serious note, chaps.
Without doing statistical analysis (e.g. standard deviation, chi-squared), without a control with which to compare, without being able to consider all the other factors in cycle safety and without any statistics specifically relating to head injuries only to cyclists…
Absolutely no meaningful/significant conclusion can be achieved by looking at all these graphs and whatever other rubbish turns up.
I’m afraid the only way we can truly work out if helmets do or do not work is by setting up many hundreds (if not thousands) of real-world tests where all possible crash/collision scenarios are played out – something similar to how cars are tested.
I imagine the overriding result from these tests would be that being hit by a large vehicle (the real danger to cyclists) is quite inconvenient for your wellbeing, regardless of whether or not you have a helmet on.
There’s little point in discussing (arguing, it seems) this topic…
Does “How safe is your helmet
Does “How safe is your helmet” sound like the first line to the sort of hymn that many of us were forced to sing whilst @ school?