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UCI bars transgender cyclist Emily Bridges from debut as woman at National Omnium Championships this weekend

British Cycling calls on governing bodies, transgender community and government “to come together and find a better answer”

British Cycling has confirmed that transgender cyclist Emily Bridges will not now make her competitive debut as a woman at the National Omnium Championships in Derby this weekend, saying that the UCI has informed it that under current regulations, she “is not eligible to participate in this event.”

We will have more on this story in the morning. In the meantime, in a statement released this evening, the national governing body said:

At British Cycling, we believe that transgender and non-binary people should be able to find a home, feel welcome and included, and be celebrated in our sport.

Under the British Cycling Transgender and Non-Binary Participation policy, Emily Bridges was due to participate in the British National Omnium Championships on Saturday 2nd April. We have now been informed by the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) that under their current guidelines Emily is not eligible to participate in this event.

We have been in close discussions with the UCI regarding Emily’s participation this weekend and have also engaged closely with Emily and her family regarding her transition and involvement in elite competitions. We acknowledge the decision of the UCI with regards to Emily’s participation, however we fully recognise her disappointment with today’s decision.

Transgender and non-binary inclusion is bigger than one race and one athlete – it is a challenge for all elite sports. We believe all participants within our sport deserve more clarity and understanding around participation in elite competitions and we will continue to work with the UCI on both Emily’s case and the wider situation with regards to this issue.

We also understand that in elite sports the concept of fairness is essential. For this reason, British Cycling is today calling for a coalition to share, learn and understand more about how we can achieve fairness in a way that maintains the dignity and respect of all athletes.

Within recent years, we’ve seen huge advancements in the science and testing around elite sports, the broader scientific and understanding of human biology, developments in protection provided by the law, and crucially a greater respect for the psychological and societal challenges of those who are transgender and non-binary. This is a complex area and by uniting, we can share resources and insights.

We know that some of these conversations are happening in pockets of the sporting world, but we want to encourage all sporting governing bodies, athletes, the transgender and non-binary athlete community, the Government and beyond to come together and find a better answer.

Across sports, far more needs to be done, collectively, before any long-term conclusions can be drawn.

Below is our original article, published at 1215 today.

A transgender cyclist who was once part of the men’s Great Britain Academy Programme, and who last month won a men’s race at the British Universities Track Championships, looks set to make her competitive debut as a woman against some of the country’s top female riders including multiple Olympic champion Dame Laura Kenny at the National Omnium Championships in Derby this weekend – although some competitors are said to be afraid to speak out about her potential participation in the event.

Emily Bridges, aged 21, revealed her struggles with gender dysphoria and the impact it was having on her, including depression and feeling isolated, in an article written for Sky Sports that was published on Coming Out Day in October 2020.

She started undergoing hormone therapy last year, and her testosterone levels are now sufficiently low to allow her to compete in women’s events under British Cycling’s Transgender and Non-Binary Participation Policy.

First published in 2020, the latest version of the policy was published in January this year following a consultation last summer that attracted 600 responses.

Transgender athletes are required to have testosterone levels below 5 nanomoles per litre for a year (men generally range between 10 and 30 nanomoles per litre) before being permitted to compete against other women.

Announcing the update, British Cycling said: “Our first Transgender and Non-Binary Participation Policy was designed to be as inclusive as possible, imposing only necessary and proportionate restrictions on eligibility to ensure fair and meaningful competition, based on the most relevant available guidance.”

The governing body said that it would “continue to follow the UCI regulations introduced in March 2020, which are based on objective scientific research and driven by a desire to guarantee fairness and safety within the sport …  For this reason, testosterone levels remain the primary method of determining which members are eligible to compete in the male and female categories.”

It added: “While there has been much commentary on the effectiveness of testosterone-based measures, at the current time we do not have sufficient research or understanding to update this area of our policy in a way which is relevant and appropriate for our sport.

“However, we remain committed to moving with international bodies and scientific opinion, and supporting research efforts in any way we can.”

News of Bridges’ likely participation in Derby this weekend has attracted criticism within the media, with Owen Slot, chief sports writer at The Times, writing that should she beat Kenny – five times an Olympic gold medallist, two of those in the Omnium – this weekend, it would underline the unfairness of allowing transgender women to compete in female sports events.

Meanwhile, Olympic silver medal-winning former swimmer Sharron Davies, who believes that despite reduction of testosterone levels, transgender women retain an unfair physical advantage over biological females and should therefore be excluded from women’s sport, says that she has been contacted by women cyclists who are fearful of going public with their concerns.

“British Cycling ought to be ashamed of themselves,” she said, quoted on Mail Online. “I have had quite a few of the girls very distressed on the phone. They are frustrated and disappointed. 

“They are all for inclusion but not at the loss of fairness and opportunities for biological females.”

However, Bridges’ mother Sandy, writing on Twitter, said that her daughter may have to have police protection at the championships this weekend.

“This is the reality of being trans today,” she wrote. “That my daughter has to be on a police operation plan to compete in a bike race in the UK. How in any way can that be #SafeToBeMe2022.”

Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.

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301 comments

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to Jenova20 | 2 years ago
1 like

Jenova20 wrote:

You don't need to be a biologist to know that males and females are different and develop differently. They have different chromosones, they look different, they develop differently, and they're observably different on a biological level. There is only one observed sport where females have a genetic advantage over males, and that's long distance running.

Unfortunately science is being sidelined or called offensive by ridiculous extremist activists.

Oooh, pleas show us the peer reviewed paper where you've come up with a precise definiton then! Since you've been so confident about what you've posted, should be trivial to prove your credentials on the topic.

When you say "science is being sidelined", that must mean you have proof  otherwise you wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement 

come on then. 

Avatar
Mark_1973_ replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
3 likes

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Jenova20 wrote:

You don't need to be a biologist to know that males and females are different and develop differently. They have different chromosones, they look different, they develop differently, and they're observably different on a biological level. There is only one observed sport where females have a genetic advantage over males, and that's long distance running.

Unfortunately science is being sidelined or called offensive by ridiculous extremist activists.

Oooh, pleas show us the peer reviewed paper where you've come up with a precise debit on then! Since you've been so confident about what you've posted, should be trivial to prove your credentials on the topic.

 

come on then. 

Please stop with the heterophobia.

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to Mark_1973_ | 2 years ago
1 like

Please stop

Avatar
Jenova20 replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
4 likes

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Jenova20 wrote:

You don't need to be a biologist to know that males and females are different and develop differently. They have different chromosones, they look different, they develop differently, and they're observably different on a biological level. There is only one observed sport where females have a genetic advantage over males, and that's long distance running.

Unfortunately science is being sidelined or called offensive by ridiculous extremist activists.

Oooh, pleas show us the peer reviewed paper where you've come up with a precise definiton then! Since you've been so confident about what you've posted, should be trivial to prove your credentials on the topic.

When you say "science is being sidelined", that must mean you have proof  otherwise you wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement 

come on then. 

You realise we can dig up the dead and tell what sex they were right? It's been a long time since an archaologist dug up a Pharaoh and claimed them to be a demi two-spirit genderqueer feminist otherkin hasn't it.

The LGB community spent decades fighting for civil and legal rights and improving acceptance. Then the T got tacked on and what happened? You rewrite our history, you accuse us of transphobia because you can't get a date, you demolish female sports, you call ordinary people transphobic for not agreeing with you, you accuse straight white men of everything you can think of, you harass people out of their jobs for disagreeing. You're largely bullies and the way you treat the detrans community, the LGB community, and even straight people is disgusting.

You are the reason LGBT acceptance is actually declining in the west. Decades of work to make people realise we're normal and just want our own families thrown to the fire by nutcases like you with a radical homophobic and even heterophobic agenda.

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to Jenova20 | 2 years ago
0 likes

Jenova20 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Jenova20 wrote:

You don't need to be a biologist to know that males and females are different and develop differently. They have different chromosones, they look different, they develop differently, and they're observably different on a biological level. There is only one observed sport where females have a genetic advantage over males, and that's long distance running.

Unfortunately science is being sidelined or called offensive by ridiculous extremist activists.

Oooh, pleas show us the peer reviewed paper where you've come up with a precise definiton then! Since you've been so confident about what you've posted, should be trivial to prove your credentials on the topic.

When you say "science is being sidelined", that must mean you have proof  otherwise you wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement 

come on then. 

You realise we can dig up the dead and tell what sex they were right? It's been a long time since an archaologist dug up a Pharaoh and claimed them to be a demi two-spirit genderqueer feminist otherkin hasn't it.

The LGB community spent decades fighting for civil and legal rights and improving acceptance. Then the T got tacked on and what happened? You rewrite our history, you accuse us of transphobia because you can't get a date, you demolish female sports, you call ordinary people transphobic for not agreeing with you, you accuse straight white men of everything you can think of, you harass people out of their jobs for disagreeing. You're largely bullies and the way you treat the detrans community, the LGB community, and even straight people is disgusting.

You are the reason LGBT acceptance is actually declining in the west. Decades of work to make people realise we're normal and just want our own families thrown to the fire by nutcases like you with a radical homophobic and even heterophobic agenda.

bye TERF

It was the LGBT community first.  Go back to the LGB alliance echo chamber where you can think you're in some way relevant or representative of the queer community  

no LGB withiut the T

Avatar
Jenova20 replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
4 likes

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Jenova20 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Jenova20 wrote:

You don't need to be a biologist to know that males and females are different and develop differently. They have different chromosones, they look different, they develop differently, and they're observably different on a biological level. There is only one observed sport where females have a genetic advantage over males, and that's long distance running.

Unfortunately science is being sidelined or called offensive by ridiculous extremist activists.

Oooh, pleas show us the peer reviewed paper where you've come up with a precise definiton then! Since you've been so confident about what you've posted, should be trivial to prove your credentials on the topic.

When you say "science is being sidelined", that must mean you have proof  otherwise you wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement 

come on then. 

You realise we can dig up the dead and tell what sex they were right? It's been a long time since an archaologist dug up a Pharaoh and claimed them to be a demi two-spirit genderqueer feminist otherkin hasn't it.

The LGB community spent decades fighting for civil and legal rights and improving acceptance. Then the T got tacked on and what happened? You rewrite our history, you accuse us of transphobia because you can't get a date, you demolish female sports, you call ordinary people transphobic for not agreeing with you, you accuse straight white men of everything you can think of, you harass people out of their jobs for disagreeing. You're largely bullies and the way you treat the detrans community, the LGB community, and even straight people is disgusting.

You are the reason LGBT acceptance is actually declining in the west. Decades of work to make people realise we're normal and just want our own families thrown to the fire by nutcases like you with a radical homophobic and even heterophobic agenda.

bye TERF

It was the LGBT community first.  Go back to the LGB alliance echo chamber where you can think you're in some way relevant or representative of the queer community  

no LGB withiut the T

Your ignorance on Lesbian and Gay history is staggering, though the ignorance you've displayed here is telling. The T actually has nothing in common with the LGB community. Also i'm not a Terf, since i'm not a feminist (neither are around 93% of Brits based on studies). As i've pointed out, all you can do is attack others. Grow up you homophobe.

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to Jenova20 | 2 years ago
0 likes

it's not staggering, I've learned enough from community friends and through lived experiences to know when someone is talking crap. 
 

the T is intrinsically bound to the LGB, which is why it is LGBTQIA+. Sorry that yiur bigotry isn't working. 
 

I'll go back to loving the same gender as I identify as, which apparently makes me a homophobe. 

Avatar
Mark_1973_ replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
5 likes

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Jenova20 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Jenova20 wrote:

You don't need to be a biologist to know that males and females are different and develop differently. They have different chromosones, they look different, they develop differently, and they're observably different on a biological level. There is only one observed sport where females have a genetic advantage over males, and that's long distance running.

Unfortunately science is being sidelined or called offensive by ridiculous extremist activists.

Oooh, pleas show us the peer reviewed paper where you've come up with a precise definiton then! Since you've been so confident about what you've posted, should be trivial to prove your credentials on the topic.

When you say "science is being sidelined", that must mean you have proof  otherwise you wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement 

come on then. 

You realise we can dig up the dead and tell what sex they were right? It's been a long time since an archaologist dug up a Pharaoh and claimed them to be a demi two-spirit genderqueer feminist otherkin hasn't it.

The LGB community spent decades fighting for civil and legal rights and improving acceptance. Then the T got tacked on and what happened? You rewrite our history, you accuse us of transphobia because you can't get a date, you demolish female sports, you call ordinary people transphobic for not agreeing with you, you accuse straight white men of everything you can think of, you harass people out of their jobs for disagreeing. You're largely bullies and the way you treat the detrans community, the LGB community, and even straight people is disgusting.

You are the reason LGBT acceptance is actually declining in the west. Decades of work to make people realise we're normal and just want our own families thrown to the fire by nutcases like you with a radical homophobic and even heterophobic agenda.

bye TERF

It was the LGBT community first.  Go back to the LGB alliance echo chamber where you can think you're in some way relevant or representative of the queer community  

no LGB withiut the T

You keep saying "bye", then reappearing. Can't you mean it this time? 

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to Jenova20 | 2 years ago
2 likes

Jenova20 wrote:

You realise we can dig up the dead and tell what sex they were right? It's been a long time since an archaologist dug up a Pharaoh and claimed them to be a demi two-spirit genderqueer feminist otherkin hasn't it.

https://www.livescience.com/medieval-grave-non-binary-warrior-finland.html

From a quick search, the last instance I could find was August 2021 which feels like a long time ago.

Also, just found this article: https://psmag.com/social-justice/our-bones-reveal-sex-is-not-binary

and this one: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/16/archaeology-sexual-revolution-bones-sex-dna-birka-lovers

TLDR; science shows that you more you examine human development, the less certain you can be about "obvious" differences between skeletons. Ultimately, bone shape is going to be related to the individual's hormone output which doesn't always match their chromosomes.

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to hawkinspeter | 2 years ago
3 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

Jenova20 wrote:

You realise we can dig up the dead and tell what sex they were right? It's been a long time since an archaologist dug up a Pharaoh and claimed them to be a demi two-spirit genderqueer feminist otherkin hasn't it.

https://www.livescience.com/medieval-grave-non-binary-warrior-finland.html

From a quick search, the last instance I could find was August 2021 which feels like a long time ago.

Also, just found this article: https://psmag.com/social-justice/our-bones-reveal-sex-is-not-binary

and this one: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/16/archaeology-sexual-revolution-bones-sex-dna-birka-lovers

TLDR; science shows that you more you examine human development, the less certain you can be about "obvious" differences between skeletons. Ultimately, bone shape is going to be related to the individual's hormone output which doesn't always match their chromosomes.

thanks for digging that up (pun intended) - I knew they were wrong but I really couldn't be bothered. 

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
3 likes

nosferatu1001 wrote:

thanks for digging that up (pun intended) - I knew they were wrong but I really couldn't be bothered. 

I very nearly didn't, but it bugged me that they were invoking "science" without actually having any idea of the complexities involved. I'm not in any way a biologist, but it's trivial to find this kind of information at which point most people think "that's a complicated issue", so I reckon Jenova20 is suffering from a case of Dunning-Kruger.

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to hawkinspeter | 2 years ago
1 like

hawkinspeter wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

thanks for digging that up (pun intended) - I knew they were wrong but I really couldn't be bothered. 

I very nearly didn't, but it bugged me that they were invoking "science" without actually having any idea of the complexities involved. I'm not in any way a biologist, but it's trivial to find this kind of information at which point most people think "that's a complicated issue", so I reckon Jenova20 is suffering from a case of Dunning-Kruger.

The only way trans deniers such as Jeniva can operate is by trying to pretend a complicated reality is actually simple, and will deny anything contradictory 

Avatar
Rik Mayals unde... replied to Jenova20 | 2 years ago
1 like

Very well said. 

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to Rik Mayals underpants | 2 years ago
1 like

biker phil wrote:

Very well said. 

Would that be the bit where Jenova invoked "science" which it turns out they completely made up? That bit? 

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
0 likes

nosferatu1001 wrote:

biker phil wrote:

Very well said. 

Would that be the bit where Jenova invoked "science" which it turns out they completely made up? That bit? 

oh yes, can you maybe remember to comment on the fact you stated that trans men don't compete against (other) men, then when I proved you wrong (yet again) you seemed to go really quiet?

I wonder why that would be...

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to Jenova20 | 2 years ago
2 likes

Jenova20 wrote:

You don't need to be a biologist to know that males and females are different and develop differently. They have different chromosones, they look different, they develop differently, and they're observably different on a biological level. There is only one observed sport where females have a genetic advantage over males, and that's long distance running.

Unfortunately science is being sidelined or called offensive by ridiculous extremist activists.

I showed you my science - show me yours.

For extra credit: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

Quote:

Many people never discover their condition unless they seek help for infertility, or discover it through some other brush with medicine. Last year, for example, surgeons reported that they had been operating on a hernia in a man, when they discovered that he had a womb. The man was 70, and had fathered four children.

Avatar
alansmurphy replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
1 like

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Someone who has their sex assigned as male at birth isn't necessarily a biological male. That's because there is no actual accepted definition of such. That's why sparrowlegs won't answer - or rather, manages to reduce the gender "woman" to "can bear children" and wonders why people are angry. 
You're reducing a complex topic down, and that just doesn't do when you're dealing with peoples lives. 

 

Can you explain how a gender reveal party works? Or when a pregnant lady (if she is indeed a lady) goes for a scan they determine that the child is male or female?

 

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to alansmurphy | 2 years ago
2 likes

alansmurphy wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Someone who has their sex assigned as male at birth isn't necessarily a biological male. That's because there is no actual accepted definition of such. That's why sparrowlegs won't answer - or rather, manages to reduce the gender "woman" to "can bear children" and wonders why people are angry. 
You're reducing a complex topic down, and that just doesn't do when you're dealing with peoples lives. 

 

Can you explain how a gender reveal party works? Or when a pregnant lady (if she is indeed a lady) goes for a scan they determine that the child is male or female?

 

they're assigning sex, not gender (identity). 
words have a meaning. 
also, I find "gender" reveal parties really weird - this obsession some people have with proclaiming to the world the contents of their child's pants is very odd, no? 

Avatar
Jenova20 replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
2 likes

Quote:

words have a meaning.

Unless you're debating trans activists who can't tell a male from a female, but also want to be the experts on the matter. Bye homophobe

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to Jenova20 | 2 years ago
1 like

Jenova20 wrote:

Quote:

words have a meaning.

Unless you're debating trans activists who can't tell a male from a female, but also want to be the experts on the matter. Bye homophobe

cis gay, none homophobic male here.

bye idiot. 

Avatar
Jenova20 replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
2 likes

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Jenova20 wrote:

Quote:

words have a meaning.

Unless you're debating trans activists who can't tell a male from a female, but also want to be the experts on the matter. Bye homophobe

cis gay, none homophobic male here.

bye idiot. 

Bye homophobe

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to Jenova20 | 2 years ago
1 like

Jenova20 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Jenova20 wrote:

Quote:

words have a meaning.

Unless you're debating trans activists who can't tell a male from a female, but also want to be the experts on the matter. Bye homophobe

cis gay, none homophobic male here.

bye idiot. 

Bye homophobe

ok I'll bite. Why am I homophobic? 
I mean, we know you're transphobic, and claim to speak for the LGB sub-community  when you in reality aren't even close to doing so. 

Avatar
alansmurphy replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
0 likes

 

 

alansmurphy wrote:

 

 

Can you explain how a gender reveal party works? Or when a pregnant lady (if she is indeed a lady) goes for a scan they determine that the child is male or female?

 

they're assigning sex, not gender (identity). 
words have a meaning. 
also, I find "gender" reveal parties really weird - this obsession some people have with proclaiming to the world the contents of their child's pants is very odd, no? 

[/quote]

 

Agree, gender reveal parnties are odd!

 

Ok, so could cycling events not be based on sex instead of gender, or sex at birth?

 

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to alansmurphy | 2 years ago
0 likes

alansmurphy wrote:

 

 

alansmurphy wrote:

 

 

Can you explain how a gender reveal party works? Or when a pregnant lady (if she is indeed a lady) goes for a scan they determine that the child is male or female?

 

they're assigning sex, not gender (identity). 
words have a meaning. 
also, I find "gender" reveal parties really weird - this obsession some people have with proclaiming to the world the contents of their child's pants is very odd, no? 

 

Agree, gender reveal parnties are odd!

 

Ok, so could cycling events not be based on sex instead of gender, or sex at birth?

 

[/quote]

They could, but most people would find it very odd to have to "prove" their status , and in practice what would,happen is you end up only asking those who you don't think "look" right. 

Avatar
Mark_1973_ replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
4 likes
nosferatu1001 wrote:

alansmurphy wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Someone who has their sex assigned as male at birth isn't necessarily a biological male. That's because there is no actual accepted definition of such. That's why sparrowlegs won't answer - or rather, manages to reduce the gender "woman" to "can bear children" and wonders why people are angry. 
You're reducing a complex topic down, and that just doesn't do when you're dealing with peoples lives. 

 

Can you explain how a gender reveal party works? Or when a pregnant lady (if she is indeed a lady) goes for a scan they determine that the child is male or female?

 

they're assigning sex, not gender (identity). 
words have a meaning. 
also, I find "gender" reveal parties really weird - this obsession some people have with proclaiming to the world the contents of their child's pants is very odd, no? 

You find gender reveal parties weird, yet keep chanting transwomen are women. Why not just be, instead of revealing a gender to people that aren't interested? Weird.

Avatar
nosferatu1001 replied to Mark_1973_ | 2 years ago
1 like

Mark_1973_ wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:

alansmurphy wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Someone who has their sex assigned as male at birth isn't necessarily a biological male. That's because there is no actual accepted definition of such. That's why sparrowlegs won't answer - or rather, manages to reduce the gender "woman" to "can bear children" and wonders why people are angry. 
You're reducing a complex topic down, and that just doesn't do when you're dealing with peoples lives. 

 

Can you explain how a gender reveal party works? Or when a pregnant lady (if she is indeed a lady) goes for a scan they determine that the child is male or female?

 

they're assigning sex, not gender (identity). 
words have a meaning. 
also, I find "gender" reveal parties really weird - this obsession some people have with proclaiming to the world the contents of their child's pants is very odd, no? 

You find gender reveal parties weird, yet keep chanting transwomen are women. Why not just be, instead of revealing a gender to people that aren't interested? Weird.

Youre still here? Weird. 
im not revealing any one's gender. You don't seem to understand how prefixes work.  The gender is "woman", the prefix cis or trans indicates more information about that persons relationship to their assigned sex. 
You seem to not really understand very much about this topic - if you'd like I can point you to some starting educational pieces. 

Avatar
Mark_1973_ replied to nosferatu1001 | 2 years ago
1 like
nosferatu1001 wrote:

Mark_1973_ wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:

alansmurphy wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Someone who has their sex assigned as male at birth isn't necessarily a biological male. That's because there is no actual accepted definition of such. That's why sparrowlegs won't answer - or rather, manages to reduce the gender "woman" to "can bear children" and wonders why people are angry. 
You're reducing a complex topic down, and that just doesn't do when you're dealing with peoples lives. 

 

Can you explain how a gender reveal party works? Or when a pregnant lady (if she is indeed a lady) goes for a scan they determine that the child is male or female?

 

they're assigning sex, not gender (identity). 
words have a meaning. 
also, I find "gender" reveal parties really weird - this obsession some people have with proclaiming to the world the contents of their child's pants is very odd, no? 

You find gender reveal parties weird, yet keep chanting transwomen are women. Why not just be, instead of revealing a gender to people that aren't interested? Weird.

Youre still here? Weird. 
im not revealing any one's gender. You don't seem to understand how prefixes work.  The gender is "woman", the prefix cis or trans indicates more information about that persons relationship to their assigned sex. 
You seem to not really understand very much about this topic - if you'd like I can point you to some starting educational pieces. 

Thanks, but millions of years of human evolution have served me and billions of others just fine in telling men and women apart. A bunch of activists claiming otherwise won't undo that.

Avatar
Secret_squirrel replied to Mark_1973_ | 2 years ago
5 likes

Mark_1973_ wrote:

Thanks, but millions of years of human evolution have served me and billions of others just fine in telling men and women apart. A bunch of activists claiming otherwise won't undo that.

You seem as equally ignorant of evolution as you do of biology.  Perhaps you stop there before the hole you're digging collapses in on itself?  There is little value in debating with the wilfully ignorant.

Avatar
Rendel Harris replied to Mark_1973_ | 2 years ago
5 likes

Mark_1973_ wrote:

Thanks, but millions of years of human evolution have served me and billions of others just fine in telling men and women apart. A bunch of activists claiming otherwise won't undo that.

One doesn't have to favour either side of this argument to see that's pretty weak; in the 16th and 17th centuries many were saying to Copernicus and Galileo that since time immemorial we've known the sun orbits the earth and no bunch of heretics claiming otherwise won't undo that. Knowledge grows, understanding changes. I'm not sufficiently scientifically literate, nor well enough read in this area, to know if there is a sound scientific basis for either your contentions or those of nosferatu, but saying "this is what's always been understood so it must be right" is not really an argument.

Avatar
Mark_1973_ replied to Rendel Harris | 2 years ago
2 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

Mark_1973_ wrote:

Thanks, but millions of years of human evolution have served me and billions of others just fine in telling men and women apart. A bunch of activists claiming otherwise won't undo that.

One doesn't have to favour either side of this argument to see that's pretty weak; in the 16th and 17th centuries many were saying to Copernicus and Galileo that since time immemorial we've known the sun orbits the earth and no bunch of heretics claiming otherwise won't undo that. Knowledge grows, understanding changes. I'm not sufficiently scientifically literate, nor well enough read in this area, to know if there is a sound scientific basis for either your contentions or those of nosferatu, but saying "this is what's always been understood so it must be right" is not really an argument.

I don't even know how the world has changed so much in so short a time that people will actually go on a public forum, quite comfortably, and argue (virtue signal) that women can have a penis. I do note, however, that it's mainly men who support this argument. If it's not misogynistic, I really don't know what is.

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