Brussels bike thieves face €250 on the spot fines

The underlying idea is is that the party that's caught pays up and in exchange the prosecution is dropped.  In practice, that's what already happens because except in very extreme circumstances, a person caught stealing a single bike will not be prosecuted to a point that the case goes to trial.  Usually the prosecutor proposes a fine and if paid, drops the case.  This proposal merely 'advances' the payment and reduces the work at the prosecutors' office, pushing it to the police.  If a person maintains innocence, he has the option of refusing and taking their chances -which are quite good. 

The problem is that -living in Brussels- there are 2 types of bike thieves here:  guys who work for organized gangs and only target expensive bikes and who will not be deterred but consider the 250 Euro as the cost of doing business.  The second category are the junks and the petty criminals.  This category usually have no money or no valid paperwork/official address.  A simple bike theft will result in detention during a couple of hours,but nothing exceeding 24h.  They'll simply never pay, sit out the 24 hours max.  They don't show up in court if a miracle happens and they actually are prosecuted.

I only see this harebrained scheme working with drunk students who try to nick a bike, get caught and start making lemonade in their trousers/calling mummy and daddy to pay up when confronted with the prospect of spending some time in the tank.

Xenophon2 wrote:

The underlying idea is is that the party that's caught pays up and in exchange the prosecution is dropped.  In practice, that's what already happens because except in very extreme circumstances, a person caught stealing a single bike will not be prosecuted to a point that the case goes to trial.  Usually the prosecutor proposes a fine and if paid, drops the case.  This proposal merely 'advances' the payment and reduces the work at the prosecutors' office, pushing it to the police.  If a person maintains innocence, he has the option of refusing and taking their chances -which are quite good. 

The problem is that -living in Brussels- there are 2 types of bike thieves here:  guys who work for organized gangs and only target expensive bikes and who will not be deterred but consider the 250 Euro as the cost of doing business.  The second category are the junks and the petty criminals.  This category usually have no money or no valid paperwork/official address.  A simple bike theft will result in detention during a couple of hours,but nothing exceeding 24h.  They'll simply never pay, sit out the 24 hours max.  They don't show up in court if a miracle happens and they actually are prosecuted.

I only see this harebrained scheme working with drunk students who try to nick a bike, get caught and start making lemonade in their trousers/calling mummy and daddy to pay up when confronted with the prospect of spending some time in the tank.

Quite

Captain Badger wrote:

At the risk of seeming woke, wooly, left, liberal etc. How does the state establish guilt of being a bike thief "on the spot"?

And will a fine, likely that the recipient can't pay, stop future thefts?

Cos that's what I want to see. Rather than fining/incarcerating/pilorying/transporting thieves, I want to see a society where folk are less likely to meander down that kind of life path in the first place, or if they do receive meaningful support to ensure they meander back the way they came to where we want them to be.

 

Person seen cutting a bike lock off in public

PLOD: "Here's your fine, and we're confiscating that bike. If you believe this is an error provide proof of bike ownership and claim it from the police station, where we will cancel the fine".

This, of course only works if they catch them in the act...

Jenova20 wrote:

......

Person seen cutting a bike lock off in public

PLOD: "Here's your fine, and we're confiscating that bike. If you believe this is an error provide proof of bike ownership and claim it from the police station, where we will cancel the fine".

This, of course only works if they catch them in the act...

And the rozzer is omniscient, incorruptible and fully objective.

And it still doesn't address what exactly this policy will achieve, apart from gaining some vainly-hoped-for, short-lived, haut-rouge kudos on announcement, after which the local rozzers will quickly deprioritise.....

Let's say for instance that the rozzers capture a significant number of these miscreants. Where are the bikes going to be kept? Have the policy makers funded a suitable storage facility? I should coco! 

If they catch them in the act, why not arrest and charge? could it be that the policymakers are downgrading bike theft from a criminal offence to a civil matter?

IF I get my bike recovered, I have no interest in someone getting a fine which in all probability they won't/can't pay. I would though want to know that any policy  response will be relevant, and demonstrably have a positive effect on the prevention of reoffending. i'd also be keen to know that other crime prevention programs were being implemented.

Of course these things require thought, planning, investment, vision, long-termism, resources, and competent policymakers. Nah, let's trumpet that we'll fine the bastards, who must have dunnit cos a rozzer said so.

They can store them in the evidence lockers at WMP headquarters...They must be empty based on their crime solving record...They don't even find a suspect in about 99% of burglary cases (Worst record in the UK).

Jenova20 wrote:

They can store them in the evidence lockers at WMP headquarters...They must be empty based on their crime solving record...They don't even find a suspect in about 99% of burglary cases (Worst record in the UK).

🤣

Lukas wrote:

not wishing to sound too cynical but i don't think there is an answer to bike theft other than personal responsibility; lock it up with quality locks, put a motion alarm on the bike, put a 'Dutch style' wheel lock to immobilise the wheel . . . . . Bikes are too easy to steal and too easy to sell on. And the consequences of being caught are minimal. I don't think a fine will make much difference. 

There's other things that could be tried, but they'll cost money. Frame manufacturers could easily enough embed RFID chips into products though that would then require a bunch of automated readers put everywhere or have police/bike shops scan every bike they see.

An alternative is embedding GPS tech into frames that allow for easy recharging but not easily removed/disabled (though I'm pretty sure wrapping it in foil would stop GPS from working).

Of course, bikes can be stolen just for their components, so a similar approach would be needed for expensive components too which would be more of a hassle.

The other approach is to go after the thieves. Lots of honeypot bikes (i.e. bikes fitted with a hidden tracker) waiting to be stolen would be easy enough to do, though we'd need to enable police to have more resources to deal with them.

I forgot to mention the tracker - I have one on my cargo bike. It vibrates my phone if the bike is moved. And if stolen I can track it. Recovering it may not be straightforward though.  

How do you retro fit a Dutch style lock ?

hirsute wrote:

How do you retro fit a Dutch style lock ?

Loads available from manufacturers like Abus, Axa, Kryptonite and others - they usually come with a variety of seat stay/down tube/mudguard mount fixing options. 

That seems like a self-fulfilling analysis - theft happens so live with it. No amount of "personal responsibility" is proof against angle grinders.

Fear, well founded, of having your bike nicked is a massive deterent to using it for transport. The whole notion of e/bikes substituting for car journeys can't work if you can't park. If the authorities are serious about replacing car journeys then telling people it's basically their fault if their bike gets nicked won't cut it.

VanMoof have shown that there are solutions. Obviously their execution is particular to their ebikes. A different approach will be required for the mass of ordinary bicycles, but what VanMoof have shown is that a determination to succeed is what yields results.

Sriracha wrote:

That seems like a self-fulfilling analysis - theft happens so live with it. No amount of "personal responsibility" is proof against angle grinders. Fear, well founded, of having your bike nicked is a massive deterent to using it for transport. The whole notion of e/bikes substituting for car journeys can't work if you can't park. If the authorities are serious about replacing car journeys then telling people it's basically their fault if their bike gets nicked won't cut it. VanMoof have shown that there are solutions. Obviously their execution is particular to their ebikes. A different approach will be required for the mass of ordinary bicycles, but what VanMoof have shown is that a determination to succeed is what yields results.

Exactly. Personal responsibility doesn't cut it against scenarios that are not controllable by the individual - see where the individual responsibility approach to covid got us.

Bike theft has a demonstrable deleterious  effect on the implementation of vital public policy - that of reducing car use. Therefore there needs to be a policy response in mitigation. Fining people (if caught, whether they're the "right" people or not) is not it.