A cyclist has been killed this afternoon on Barclays Cycle Superhighway CS2 in east London, the third cyclist to die on the route in a little over two years. Once again, a tipper lorry is reported to be the vehicle involved.
The incident that claimed the life of the male bike rider (later identified as hospital porter Brian Holt) took place on Mile End Road in the London Borough of Tower Hamlets, reports the BBC. It happened at 4.38pm, according to the Metropolitan Police.
That location lies between the western end of the route, where student Philippine de Gerin-Ricard lost her life in a collision with a lorry in July this year, and the eastern end of the route at Bow Roundabout, where Brian Dorling was killed by a tipper truck in October 2011.
The latest fatality on CS2 takes place a fortnight after a Coroner gave Mayor of London Boris Johnson, who chairs Transport for London, 56 days to respond to a Prevention of Future Deaths report issued following the inquests last month into those two previous deaths.
It comes just one day before the eastern extension of CS2 from Bow to Stratford is due to open.
The new route incorporates safety features including kerbed cycle lanes that have been welcomed by cycle campaigners but which are missing from the existing route – described by a police accident investigator at the inquest into Mr Dorling’s death as “just a piece of blue paint.”
69 thoughts on “Third cyclist killed on London Cycle Superhighway, tipper lorry involved”
Very sad….
Please sort this
Very sad….
Please sort this Superhighway??? out…
The CS2 extension looks like
The CS2 extension looks like an improvement from the original part. However it’ll still spew riders out onto the Bow Roundabout and this original section which TfL know is not fit for purpose and now has another cycling fatality on it.
Yet again it’s a tipper truck.
TfL could easily sort this by banning them during peak hours but there’s no sign of this happening
Surely it’s time for the DVLA
Surely it’s time for the DVLA to seriously reconsider the standards required to pass the HGV licence?
They are without question some of the most lethal vehicles on the road but seem to be driven almost exclusively by labrador brained knucleheads, that’s not to say that any vehicle cannot be driven by similarly labrador brained knucleheads but HGVs by their very nature are more dangerous. [/sweeping generalisations regarding fat lorry drivers>
William Black wrote:Surely
A bit extreme, isn’t it? As a C+E licence holder, I’d say the testing standards in the UK are among the highest within the EU, We now have to undertake regular professional competence training by law, and stringent medical testing starts when you reach the age of 45. All measures far beyond those required of other drivers.
It isn’t so much the standard of training that is the problem, it is the degree of pressure to which the driver is exposed which increases the chances of a fatal “accident”. If firms pay “by the load”, or make the “delivery window” quite difficult to achieve in heavy traffic, you just know that safety will be compromised. Subcontracting means that you can ligitimately distance your own organisation from certain health and safety issues. Utter the right sysmpathetic platitudes, instigate another “driver awareness” program, but make sure those contractors keep their trucks rolling ever faster.
My condolances to the family and friends of the cyclist who died today. Very sad.
Neil753 wrote:
It isn’t so
I do agree entirely with this point though. The issues with HGVs go well beyond any individual driver.
Neil753 wrote:William Black
Perhaps, and I did add the “sweeping generalisations” bit as I’m all too aware there are numerous exceptions to any rule.
But as the ‘Shouty Man Troll’ has demonstrated so wonderfully, when lorry (again citing the exceptions to the rule) drivers don’t even have the slightest clue as to why a cyclist in a narrow lane might want to place himself bang in the middle, and think he’s ‘deliberately trying to hold up traffic’** rather than just protect himself, it just seems to me we’re banging heads against a brick wall and only continued driver education can save us.
** One of the best retorts to this was by a rider in the team of a friend doing JOGLE with a big support van tailing them. They pulled in to a ‘greasy spoon’ layby for a refresh of bottles and all that a few minutes later a driver on the way to the burger van see’s them all and remarks ‘oh, you’re the ones who were holding up the traffic back there’ rider replies quite simply with “we are traffic” bloke didn’t have a response to that one.
My deepest condolences to the
My deepest condolences to the families affected today by this tragic crash. The only solution is to remove the conflict on the roads: create space for cycling.
So very sad, condolences to
So very sad, condolences to the family of the guy concerned. I desperately hope that a safe solution can be found before more lives are lost on CS2
– Ban large vehicles during
– Ban large vehicles during rush hour
– Don’t let them on the roads at all if they have blind spots that can be cured with a few extra mirrors
– Remove blue paint from these horrible roads – it just gives cyclists a false sense of security
Oh boy. How many times do we need to copy and paste similar sentiments?
Sad day indeed. Super
Sad day indeed. Super highway! What’s so super.
How many more deaths will it take for the authorites to act.
BIG action needed before another cyclist dies.
STAY AWAY FROM HGV’s WHERE YOU CAN.
CS2 is worse than “just a
CS2 is worse than “just a piece of blue paint.” it brings motor-vehicles too close to cyclists, in places it’s part of a car lane e.g. http://goo.gl/maps/RaRvr
It’s about time that very strict enforcement of tax, mot, license and insurance were brought against construction vehicles. Any company hiring a tipper truck that lacks correct tax, mot, license or insurance should have the book thrown at them. It seems that these companies are not being held responsible when they should be.
I don’t think banning large vehicles is feasible and I don’t stick to cycling during rush hour anyway. But I do think that these vehicles need mandatory retro-fits of better mirror setups.
And very sad for the friends and family of the victim, words fail me :-(.
Another issue that needs
Another issue that needs addressing is the paying of Tipper Trucks ‘by the load’ which can only encourage drivers to go quickly and get in more loads.
The construction industry in London should self regulate and ban this practice. Or Boris should sort them out.
Not saying it is an issue in this tragedy, but Tipper trucks are far too often involved and need stronger regulation, safety and training.
One life lost is one too
One life lost is one too many! Now there have been three cyclists killed in the same area. Something must be done to ensure this sad situation does not happen again.
My Sincere Sympathy to the family and friends of the Deceased Cyclist. My Condolances.
Neil753 wrote:William Black
A bit extreme, isn’t it? As a C+E licence holder, I’d say the testing standards in the UK are among the highest within the EU, We now have to undertake regular professional competence training by law, and stringent medical testing starts when you reach the age of 45. All measures far beyond those required of other drivers.
It isn’t so much the standard of training that is the problem, it is the degree of pressure to which the driver is exposed which increases the chances of a fatal “accident”. If firms pay “by the load”, or make the “delivery window” quite difficult to achieve in heavy traffic, you just know that safety will be compromised. Subcontracting means that you can ligitimately distance your own organisation from certain health and safety issues. Sack the driver, utter the right sysmpathetic platitudes, instigate another “driver awareness” program, but make sure those contractors keep their trucks rolling ever faster.
My condolances to the family and friends of the cyclist who died today. Very sad.— William Black
Unfortunately there are many driving in the UK on EU licenses and other countries licenses of dubious validity.
First can you explain your
First can you explain your maths – 2 dead on CS2 at Bow Roundabout, 1 dead on CS2 at Aldgate/Commercial Street, plus now a further death between those locations on Mile End Road? That makes four?
There but for some sixth sense? White rigid 18T with box and tail lift made my alarm system trip first by the way he passed me on Stamford Street – I then passed on way to Southwark Bridge and turned to head up in to the City – somehow I just knew he would be going my way and I made sure I clocked the driver at Upper Thames Street lights – me central position with other cyclists going on up Queen Street. Truck driver in n/s lane not signalling and sure enough he sets off to turn RIGHT probably about 17.45 (as it will be on CCTV). Having made the driver well aware of my presence I was thankful that this was sufficient to make him suitably cautious about pulling away and my presence (and that of a few other cyclists forced him to drive with appropriate to that presence (but still never signalled the right turn!) Vehicle nominally white with green lettering for a produce supplier based in Ockenden (watch out for that guy he needs a bit of ‘care around cyclists’ training.
The other of today’s ‘bads’ what news of the cyclist trapped by coach turning Southampton Row-Theobalds Road? Had that attempted by 7.5T (C1) driver a couple of months back – again no signal (initially) – as a cyclist you are invited to use bus lane which then becomes left filter for Theobalds Road. You need to sit well to the right in the lane and make left turning motor vehicle drivers pass behind to make the turn – not this guy – we set off and I wonder why he seems to be taking a course so close, slow and parallel to me – look in to the cab and I realise he wants to turn left and was expecting me to stop so that he could cut me up, but I of course kept moving straight ahead. Could have been nasty. Trying to figure what I’d have done aside from deflection turn and grabbing door handle/mirror bracket or punching in n/s window to get something more substantial to hang on to. Just like CS2 a fundamental flaw in the road layout and traffic management at this junction.
Oh and @Neil753 next year sees the deadline for the first wave of 35 hour CPC for C+E licence holders. Going around even the big name training providers NONE seems to have a module to address the relationship between users of large trucks and of cycles. Some are even signing off (and being accepted as meeting the standards) by doing same modules each year. Where’s the sense in that? Very pleased though that (ONLY in Scotland) Police Scotland and Traffic Commissioner have a Memorandum of Understanding and every vocational licence holder stopped for use of a mobile device is automatically being reported to TAO – expect to hear of short licence suspensions in addition to penalty points if the Commissioner needs to get tough with the crack-down.
A V Lowe wrote:First can you
The other Bow Roundabout fatality of course was Svitlana Tereschenko, three weeks after Brian Dorling, but it wasn’t on CS2 itself. The site is at the western end of the new extension that opens today.
PS Apparently CS2 extension
PS Apparently CS2 extension to Stratford makes a very passable canal after even a mild shower.. perhaps they should have thought about drains when building a route with 6″ kerbs on each side and then blocking it off with a raised pedestrian crossing point?
If design of route cannot get that basic detail right what of the more critical designing out of inherently dangerous conflicting movements?
I just do not see how any
I just do not see how any sentient human being can sleep at night directing cyclists on to “super highways” that are regularly used by HGV’ s. It is criminally negligent and at least the coroner in the most recent case is putting TFL on the spot.
Upper Thames as mentioned above is in my opinion one of the most dangerous roads in London with all the industrial traffic along it and the Southwark bridge intersection (on the superhighway) is just horrible. I have contacted TFL about this accident waiting to happen but you just get the usual BS back.
My condolences to the family, we do not know the circumstances but we do know the outcome and it is tragic.
Quote on the evening standard
Quote on the evening standard is shocking…
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-hit-by-lorry-dies-and-hours-later-another-left-fighting-for-life-after-coach-crash-8923706.html
“Motiur Khan, 22, said: “The lorry was behind the cyclist and sort of went into the back of him and then I don’t really know if he lost control or something, but he hit the cyclist who went under the lorry which just ran over and crushed him.”
No disrespect to the dead and
No disrespect to the dead and not to absolve the driver of any blame (he has killed someone after all), but with every hgv-roundabout-left-turn fatality I’m increasingly thinking “idiot cyclist”.
Seriously, who cycles alongside a hgv these days and isn’t warily giving it a wide berth or just backing off and letting the thing go ahead completely?
It’s not as if it hasn’t been well publicised over the years, and only requires a modicum of commonsense.
It’s the same with any other form of transport, ultimately you’ve got to look out for your own safety and that of others…
… pedestrians crossing blindly at a snail’s pace while staring at your bloody iPhone take note.
nod wrote:No disrespect to
This is such a dumb comment Im really not sure where to start with it.
The infrastructure in the UK forces vulnerable road users in with HGV’s and conflict invariably happens. You have ASL’s that put cyclists ahead of fast moving traffic and are EXACTLY the same shape and size as HGV’s blind areas.
There is a huge lack of road craft training for ALL road users, especially with the licensing of motorised vehicles (only have to prove competency once in all the time you’re driving?).
If you cannot grasp these concepts before making ignorant, victim blaming comments, then please refrain from doing so again.
zanf wrote:nod wrote:No
This is such a dumb comment Im really not sure where to start with it.
The infrastructure in the UK forces vulnerable road users in with HGV’s and conflict invariably happens. You have ASL’s that put cyclists ahead of fast moving traffic and are shaped EXACTLY the same shape and size as HGV’s blind areas.
There is a huge lack of road craft training for ALL road users, especially with the licensing of motorised vehicles (only have to prove competency once in all the time you’re driving?).
If you cannot grasp these concepts before making ignorant, victim blaming comments, then please refrain from doing so again.— nod
Ha! I seem to grasp the concepts of vulnerability far better than you it would appear. When you’re in an ASL it’s because the traffic has stopped at the lights. I don’t think anybody would sit in an ASL while the traffic is fast moving. Perhaps that’s where you’re going wrong!
As for me, I’ve got a driving licence, no car and the bike is my primary transport. Plenty of us have licences, and more should apply the skills learnt in the car while we’re on the bike. Skills like always looking around you. I’m always looking around me for potential killers – HGVs, buses, cars, other cyclists, my little ponies etc, and if necessary I’ll take adjust my position to be more visible or get clear.
It’s not victim blaming, it’s not the ‘them against us’ you think it is. It’s about been aware, using some common sense, taking responsibility for your safety and living to see another day.
nod wrote:When you’re in an
Are you that dumb or think that being facetious is really clever?
Go and look at ASL’s and you’ll see that despite being across the width of the road, cyclists still tend to stay on the lefthand side and in the gutter.
Despite the design being that it gives cyclists a ‘head start’, it places them in front of faster moving traffic that as soon as the lights change, hurtle towards them. (motorbikes are especially guilty of this). They are a shit (non) solution to terrible junction design and there is a very good reason they are not used on mainland Europe.
Go and read your original comment because its obvious you have a massive discrepancy between what goes on in your head and reality.
zanf wrote:nod wrote:When
Are you that dumb or think that being facetious is really clever?
Go and look at ASL’s and you’ll see that despite being across the width of the road, cyclists still tend to stay on the lefthand side and in the gutter.
Despite the design being that it gives cyclists a ‘head start’, it places them in front of faster moving traffic that as soon as the lights change, hurtle towards them. (motorbikes are especially guilty of this). They are a shit (non) solution to terrible junction design and there is a very good reason they are not used on mainland Europe.
Go and read your original comment because its obvious you have a massive discrepancy between what goes on in your head and reality.— nod
Is your head just constantly replaying Mad Max? And I know what I said, and I stand by it.
zanf wrote:nod wrote:When
Don’t know what your problem is or why you come across as so angry, but surely a simple solution is to get out of the gutter and use the middle of the box? That way you’re more visible and cars won’t zoom passed you.
Maybe the box isn’t the best in the world, but what you’re describing sounds like user error to me.
Call it facetious if you want. I call it common sense.
Right,,it,s time some home
Right,,it,s time some home truths were told here,,,I am 52 years old and hold a full license to drive every type of vehicle on the road from a motorcycle to an artic and including buses,,and i am a cyclist..
I drove a fully safety equipped tipper around central london a few for a couple of weeks a few months ago and i have to say ta lot of cyclists have no respect for their own lives…i had one man about the age of the chap killed on the mile end road,,come into my blindspot,i was alerted by sensors,lean on my cab,despite there being a green box in front and DESPITE THE VEHICLE SHOUTING AT HIM REPEATEDLY THAT THIS VEHICLE IS TURNING LEFT..WHEN I GOT OUT AND ASKED HIM WHAT HE WAS DOING HE TOOK OFF THROUGH THE RED LIGHT WITHOUT LOOKING.
Another man of the of a similar age on a BORIS BIKE decided that i should not be in the very wide bus lane at whitechapel despite me being there legally and moved to the centre of the bus lane after looking directly at me and held up all traffic.
these two are only a few of the stories i can tell of lunatic cyclists in Central London who seem to think they have rights over all other traffic and no respect for their own safety.
I am sure it is often this type of cyclist that is involved in these terrible tragedies and i personally know truck drivers who have been cleared of any fault in a cyclist death,who lives have been destroyed by having to live with the trauma of these events despite being cleared of all responsibility.
those of you that post these ban lorries and slag off lorry drivers in your posts are probably just these sort of people.
Remember as a cyclist you are using the road with no license registration or insurance and those of you who cycle in the road when there are perfectly safe cycle lanes available to you that have cost us the paying road user millions of pounds are a menace to society.
HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR OTHER ROAD USERS,,THE COUNCILS THAT HAVE SUPPLIED SAFE CYCLING ENVIROMENTS,,,AND MOST OFF ALL YOUR OWN LIVES.
WHY ANYONE FEELS THE NEED TO CYCLE ALONG THE HIGHWAY FROM THE LIMEHOUSE LINK TO TOWER HILL I HAVE NO IDEA,,,THERE IS A PERFECTLY SAFE FREE FROM LORRIES CYCLE LANE THE FULL LENGTH OF CABLE STREET…YOU DO IT BECAUSE YOU CAN,,,SOME OF YOU NEED TO GET REAL QUICKLY OR THIS WILL KEEP HAPPENING.IT IS NOT ALWAYS THE DRIVERS AT FAULT….USE THE FACILITIES AVAILABLE TO YOU AND STAY AWAY FROM TRUCKS….THEY ARE ONLY DANGEROUS IF YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A DANGEROUS POSITION.
Fuck off you pathetic
Fuck off you pathetic trolling cunt.
Bikebikebike wrote:Fuck off
To Truckingcyclist.
trucking cyclist
I very, very, much doubt that we will get any truth from you.
So you are of a decent age and can be trained to drive technically demanding vehicles but cant work a keyboard properly? I’m having further doubts here sunbeam.
I doubt this happened.
What a pile of complete tosh.
Really? So he was able to reach all the way up to the cab of a tipper truck? Must have been a big tall fella hey? Well done to you though for being able to see exactly what he was doing the whole time he was in a position where you claim you would be completely unable to see him, you know, in your blind spot.
Kudos too for being able to monitor if said cyclist had checked if the route was clear in the whole time it took you to climb out of a tipper truck, down the steps, round the front of the vehicle to where the cyclist was.
Come to think of it, what were you doing jumping out of your truck? I mean if the sensors were going off for long enough for you to get worked up and then make the decision to get out of the vehicle, then you would have had to come out of gear, check the brakes were on, turn the engine off, remove the keys, check the traffic for any other vehicles, traffic or pedestrians coming past, climb down the steps on to the road, round the vehicle and across to the cyclist. And the lights were still on red at this point? Alternatively, you’ve just jumped out of the cab, leaving several tonnes of highly hazardous machinery with its engine running. If either situation turned out to be true then it doesn’t look good for you really does it?
I don’t know the bus lane in question so I can’t say if you are correct in saying you could legally be there, strikes me as odd that a tipper truck can drive in a bus lane at any time remotely near a peak time though, but regardless, this cyclist has ridden, made eye contact and presumably still felt that you would try to over take in a manner that would put him in danger so rode in the safest position in the road? He rode in a manner that actually made him safer? The crazy lunatic! This anecdote, again if it were true, would only serve to point out that you aren’t very good at understanding roads or other road users.
Actually, these stories have shown that it is you that thinks you have absolute right on the roads and that cyclists put themselves in safer positions.
To paraphrase the old lager advert, “Troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll”
It’s at this point you’ve lost it, you might as well have two pencils up your nose and be shouting “wibble”.
trucking cyclist wrote:.i had
See, this is the problem with large motorized vehicles: they have massive blindspots. Really, as we’re speaking some home truths here, said vehicles should only be driven in a hyper-cautious manner. If not, then we end up with accidents.
So you knew there was a cyclist there. He knew you knew, you knew he knew, it was a red-light… what’s the problem? Apart from you screaming at him like a nutter?
Which can be rephrased as “Another man of 52 years of age on a TIPPER LORRY decided that a cyclist should not be in the center of a magic bus lane which is wide enough for a TIPPER LORRY to pass a bicycle with a car’s width. Despite the cyclist being there legally.”
See, there’s another problem… some of the people driving the trucks KEEP PUTTING OTHER ROAD USERS IN A DANGEROUS POSITION.
trucking cyclist wrote:menace
You mean like this Truck driver?: http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01614/PETER_SUTCLIFFE_1614684a.jpg
trucking cyclist
I have insurance twice, (1) for work and (2) thrown in free with a membership to LCC.
Everybody in the UK who pays any tax is paying for the roads. Are you aware that trucks are subsidised by the taxpayer who are paying for the damage the heavy vehicles are doing to the roads.
“there are perfectly safe cycle lanes” Where? Are they in car door zones? do they have chevrons or better separating the bikes from the rest of the traffic? Over the last few days I can’t help notice the debris from the storm seems to have been swept from everywhere except the cycle lanes.
Here is one example of a cycle lane which makes one fear for their life because ignorant motor vehicle drivers think it’s ok to drive right next to it, and it’s one of the cycle lanes that’s still full of debris: http://goo.gl/maps/ACn2F I think cycling organisations need to start thinking about bringing legal against councils who create such dangerous cycle lanes, I would gladly contribute towards such a legal campaign.
It’s just a matter of time before vehicles without good visibility of what is around them are banned, it’s absurd that some HGV drivers can’t see what is directly in front of their vehicle.
kie7077 wrote:trucking
Not sure if having insurance twice is helpful. Wouldn’t each insurance company try to palm off the costs to the other?
nod wrote:
Not sure if having
If anything happened during working hours, Work would sort things out via their insurance, out of work hours I’d use the personal insurance.
First of all our thoughts
First of all our thoughts have to be with the friends and families of those involved.
Before we trail the driver of the truck my media. Let us first consider the old adage that we are innocent until proven guilty.
The reports suggest that the collision happened when the lorry pulled off following the road, i.e. not turning, so it is a different circumstance to the bow round-a-bout concerns.
We do not know who was at fault here. There are differing scenarios which would proportion blame to either driver, cyclist, tfl. Who knows.
One thing I would point out is that why does it always seem to involve tippers :(.
And another incident on the cycle super highway. The whole point of which was to make cyclists feel more safe, yet another one has needlessly perished. If nothing else it would suggest that the CS is ill concieved and certainly I would be more concerned about using it.
Wolfshade wrote:First of all
At last some common sense,,,,i will answer the question re why is it often tippers,,,it is not alway
AT THE MOMENT IN CENTRAL LONDON THERE IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST EVER CONSTRUCTION PROJECT GOING ON …A GOV,T CONTRACT THAT REQUIRES TIPPER TRUCKS TO BE AVAILABLE 24 HRS A DAY,,,,NORMALLY MOST TIPPERS ARE PARKED UP AND FINISHED BY 4.30 PM AND NOT INVOLVED IN THE EVENING RUSH.
TIPPERS AT THE MOMENT FAR EXCEED ANY OTHER TYPE OF TRUCK WORKING IN CENTRAL LONDON,,MOST OTHERS GET DELIVERIES DONE EARLY MORNING,,OR ARE ON SMALLER VEHICLES FROM OUTER LONDON HUBS JUST BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF RESTRICTIONS ON PARKING AND LOADING…THESE INCIDENTS INVOLVE MORE TIPPERS THAN OTHER VEHICLES SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE OF THEM ON THE ROAD THAN ANY OTHER HGV.NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE DANGEROUS AND MOST ARE NOW FITTED WITH VERY EXPENSIVE CAMERAS AND SENSORS…THEY ARE ONLY A DANGER TO THOSE ON CYCLES WHO PUT THEMSELVES IN A POSITION OF DANGER…NO AMOUNT OF MIRRORS,CAMERAS,SENSORS,,,OR LICENSING CAN CATER FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO PUT THEIRSELF WITH IN INCHES OF A LARGE HEAVY VEHICLE,,,OR ANY VEHICLE FOR THAT MATTER……CYCLISTS NEED TO GET REAL.
@trucking cyclist. P pay for
@trucking cyclist. P pay for the road too, from General taxation. I have insurance. I have EVERY RIGHT to use the roads that I CHOOSE to cycle on. The majority of cycle lanes are not ‘safe’ they are in fact taking cyclists into your blind spots, up the inside of you and other trucks. If a cyclists takes the lane (as your boris biker did) then maybe it is because they don’t feel it safe for you to pass them at that point. This is a safe move. You’re wrong to say trucks are only dangerous if you are in the wrong position, they are also dangerous if driven too close to a cyclist in the right positon, or who the driver hasn’t seen. Some cyclists take massive risks with their lives, they shouldn’t but do. Some cdrivers take massive risks with MY life, they shouldn’t but some do. Telling cyclists to use other roads is not the answer, the answer is to have more respect from both sides, more education for both sides and for there to be safe infrustructure.
trukcing cyclist – some of
trukcing cyclist – some of the behaviours, such as pulling in front of you in the middle of the lane, or “holding traffic up”, are recommend practice. Its known as Vehicular Cycling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling) and its generally accepted as the safest way to cycle given a lack of safe infrastructure.
The fact the cyclist “moved to the centre of the bus lane after looking directly at me and held up all traffic.” is exactly what they should have done, they’ve ensured you’ve seen them.
If a lorry was behind me, i’d be making sure i’d made eye contact and was positioned in the middle of the lane too!
The fact that someone with a HGV license doesn’t understand the reason for these behaviours is very worrying, especially when you assume its only done out of arrogance, or to deliberately hold traffic up.
The type of cyclists usually involved in accidents with HGV’s are often new or timid cyclists, sticking to the left and following the (dangerous) cycle paths, as stated in the recent coroners report mentioned above, though this doesn’t necessarily make them at fault.
My Tweet to Boris the clown
My Tweet to Boris the clown :
skippy mc carthy @skippydetour 2m
@SafeCyclingOz @mayoroflondon SHAME ON YOU ! Your CS2 DEATH TRAP requires http://road.cc/sites/default/files/Prevention%20of%20Future%20Deaths%20report.pdf … …NOW! Not WHEN! How MANYmore Cyclists LOST?
His minders will NOT show it to him !
Another bad hair day for him ?
Will be adding to skippi-cyclist.blogspot.com later today .
@truckingcyclist
You want me
@truckingcyclist
You want me to start listing all the examples of lunatic motorists I’ve seen over the years in London? It would take all day and fill up the entire site.
Trucks often endanger cyclists because they, the trucks, are badly driven. They overtake then cut across cyclists, they overttake dangerously close and fast (they do this a lot), and they roll right over both cyclists and pedestrians who are right in front of them. Near me the corner pavement is completely smashed up because trucks regularly drive right over the pavement when turning.
(Though personally my sense is the bigger the HGV the more skilled the driver is likely to be – its actually the smaller trucks that are the worst).
On the subject of entitled motorist behaviour, I’m still rolling my eyes at the car I saw parked yesterday – 3/4 on the pavement, on a double-red line, right across the dropped kerb at a major, light-controlled, pedestrian crossing, right at a junction, completely blocking both the pedestrian crossing AND the busy pavement and partly blocking the road so that buses had great trouble squeezing past.
All so he could stop directly outside a takaway food place rather than down a side-street requriing a 100 yard walk. Its not directly relevant to this tragic incident, but its a typical example of entitled motorist behaviour.
Something odd happens to too many people’s brains when they get behind the wheel of a motorised vehicle. I reckon its the combination of lethal power and isolation.
Your telling cyclists they should get off ‘your’ road and take some other route is a good example of the worrying sense of entitlement that too many drivers exhibit.
Condolences to all who knew this cyclist. And almost regardless of how this happened, or whether they did anything “wrong”, they are still another victim of our car-centric road design.
This so sad
I’ve ridden CS2
This so sad 🙁
I’ve ridden CS2 once while I was living in London and have to say it was the single most scary experience of my life. It’s horrendous and completely unsafe for cyclists. Quite literally the blue gauntlet.
As a cyclist I’m glad to see the back of that City, something’s got to give, it just gets worse. >.< Condolences and respects to those who knew the cyclist involved.
@trucking_cyclist
I have to
@trucking_cyclist
I have to say your creating an account here specifically to engage in ranting which shows many of the ill-informed biases we have come to expect from poor drivers has done nothing except make you look bad and entrench some cyclists anti-motorists view
on vehicular cycling – please note ‘taking the lane’ is recommended by the Institute of Advanced Motoring – although you may not have heard of them
on tax-paying motorists – as already noted, roads are paid for from general taxation, not Vehicle License Duty – road tax was abolished before world war 2 by Churchill specifically to avoid motorists believing it’s ‘their road’
and your merry diatribe of poor cyclists is as nothing to the tales of indifference, arrogance and sheer stupidity any regular cycle commuter could regale you with regarding drivers
in short – what exactly was your point?
Road accidents involving work
Road accidents involving work vehicles fall under things that can be investigated by HSE if they chose to. Any other fatality related to the works that truck was going to would mean a full HSE enquiry, with all the processes and documentation being checked out, regardless of whether it involved a sub-contractor or whatever.
It has been mentioned that truck drivers may have be under time pressure, being paid per load. That’d seem to flag up a RA failure by the main contractor or client right off.
Bringing the people at the top of the chain directly into the investigation would also seem to be the easiest way to move towards better practices right the way down – just make it too much direct hassle to the people paying the bills to have anybody involved who is cutting corners.
Driver stopped for minor traffic violation – HSE letter to the client/main contractor warning that future problems will trigger closer HSE attention…..
YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE
YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT,,,NONE OF THESE DEATHS ARE CAUSED BY ANYONE OVERTAKING OR CUTTING UP…THEY ARE ALL AT TRAFFIC LIGHTS OR JUNCTIONS WHEN NO SELF RESPECTING CYCLIST SHOULD BE ANYWHERE NEAR A TRUCK,,LET ALONE HOLDING ONTO IT AS MANY DO.
I HAVE LIVED IN DRIVEN JUST ABOUT EVERY TYPE OF VEHICLE INCENTRAL LONDON ALL MY LIFE,INCLUDING CYCLING ON THE ROAD SINCE THE AGE OF 5 AND STILL DO,,,REGARDING THE CLOWN IN THE BUS LANE,,YOU WERE NOT THERE,,AND HE WAS NOT USING RECOGNISED PRACTICE..THE BUS LANE AT THAT POINT IS WIDE ENOUGH FOR 2 LORRIES…HE WAS A BLOODY MINDED FOOL PUTTING HIMSELF IN DANGER AS MANY CYCLISTS DO,,,LIKE THE FOOL THAT HITCHED A LIFT ON THE REAR CORNER OF MY TRUCK TO GET UP ARCHWAY HILL….AND ENDED UP WITH A DISLOCATED SHOULDER WHEN THE TRAFFIC STOPPED.
UNTIL CYCLISTS OBEY THE RULES OF THE ROAD,,,THE LEGAL ONES AND THE COMMON SENSE ONES,,YHIS WILL KEEP HAPPENING,,,A MAJORITY OF DRIVERS ARE CLEARED OF BLAME IN THESE CASES AND THE FACT THAT THE DRIVER LAST NIGHT HAS NOT BEEN ARRESTED POINTS TO THE SAME THING HAPPENING AGAIN,,,,THE CYCLIST BEING AT FAULT…MANY ARE SO INTERESTED AT CYCLING AT SPEED THAT THEY ARE NOT EVEN AWARE OF TRAFFIC AROUND THEM,,,AND THOSE WITH EARPHONES AND MUSIC PLAYING…AS I SAID GET REAL.
trucking cyclist wrote:YOU
Really? The one that we’re talking about here, is one where the witness quoted says the truck drove into the back of him.
How is he in danger? You saw him clearly according to yourself. Could you please provide a more exact location for this bus-lane so that I may judge for myself if it is “wide enough for two lorries” and whether or not there is an intersection close after it. The last bit is interesting: taking the lane becomes more necessary when there are junctions shortly ahead where impatient/incompetent drivers will perform a hook turn… leading to the phenomenon of a cyclist getting squashed and then some fool ranting that cyclists should not be near traffic lights or junctions.
Your bloody-minded fool sounds like a smart man to me.
It’s just sad that someone
It’s just sad that someone would take time to register to start an ill informed argument on an article about another tragic and avoidable road death for what can only be assumed to be the purposes of trolling.
Not every cyclist is perfect, not all lorry drivers are idiots but they’re all human beings with families and friends. In this case one group of family and friends is mourning a loss while someone claiming to be both a professional driver and a cyclist comes on to infer blame on the cyclist and criticise legally and logically sound behaviours.
@trucking_cyclist
Is your
@trucking_cyclist
Is your Caps Lock key stuck?
Or do you *really* think shouting makes you seem more reasonable and reliable?
Again – quoting anecdotes is useless – and by the way official metropolitan police figures clear cyclists of blame in the vast majority of car/cycle incidents
Your ranting is NOT backed up by facts
Some actual facts for Caps
Some actual facts for Caps Lock-man
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study
and I should apologise – this is a DfT report – not the Met as previously stated
This is so sad and
This is so sad and depressing.
Last year I rhetorically asked on another such forum how many deaths would it take for effective action to be taken to make cycling safer in London – such as proper segregated bike lanes, to which we can add a rush hour ban of HGVs.
It seems those with the power to take such action – the Mayor, TfL and the DfT – are happy to see the death and injury toll mount…
Who invited Keith Peat along
Who invited Keith Peat along ? All we’re missing is “mixing with essential machinery”…..
I like a bit of well thought
I like a bit of well thought out and reasoned argument… keep it going all…. 🙂
Nah – now we’re just
Nah – now we’re just troll-baiting the nutter
LORRY DRIVERS,,,NEED TOO BE
LORRY DRIVERS,,,NEED TOO BE BANED FRUM THE ,,,,,,, ROADS UNTIL !! THEY CAN OBAY THE LAWS TWO!!!!! THEY ARE ARROGANT AND HAVE NO RESPECT FOR OTHER ROAD USERS..
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hgv-drivers-antics-putting-lives-378072
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10642009.Five_years_for_lorry_driver_who_was_texting_on_M62_when_he_caused_double_fatal_accident/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2824249/Truck-driver-watched-Battlestar-Galactica-on-laptop-while-driving.html
http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/t-stop-texting-Lorry-driver-caught-sexting-lover/story-19975174-detail/story.html
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/mum-hope-fennell-stops-kings-6076170#.Uj9p5OTrPBk.twitter
As an aside…
– The number
As an aside…
– The number and all kinds of cyclists I’ve seen riding with earphones aren’t doing themselves any favours. Why dull a sense needed to keep you alive?
– In the interest of balance, I saw a driver plugged into headphones too the other day. Didn’t make sense to me either.
– I remember before the CSs were painted onto the roads, and we still had lots of the same problems as now.
– Tbh I get the impression that lots of people think “blue lane = safe now = brain off”.
– How can reader of this website still think there’s such a thing as ‘road tax’? seriously?
nod wrote:- How can reader of
The last is easily answered at least – he’s not a reader of the website normally, he’s a single-issue troll who decided to go off on one and made himself look stupid
mad_scot_rider wrote:nod
Sounds reasonable!
Am I the only one who thinks
Am I the only one who thinks using capitals is the web equivalent of green ink in reader’s letters from olden times?
Bad news guys – I think our
Bad news guys – I think our refusal to get off his roads has made Mr. Shoutie leave in a huff :H
mad_scot_rider wrote:Bad news
I think he may have gone back to his several twitter accounts.
We shouldn’t be dismissing Mr
We shouldn’t be dismissing Mr Shoutie’s rant, any more than drivers should be dismissing what cyclists are saying. We have to work much more closely on this, and listen to what each group is saying.
Mr Shoutie has taken the trouble to contribute to a cycling forum, has probably read the many vitrolic reponses to his piece, and may have already decided that his views are not appreciated. No doubt his colleagues will similarly less inclined too. Is this barrier to communication really helpful when, given the painfully slow development of cycle friendly infrastructure, anything we can do to improve attitudes and understanding would be valuable ?
I do appreciate that cyclists get short thrift on HGV forums, so it works both ways, but we should all be more willing to listen to alternative points of view.
Seriously?
Neil753 wrote:We
Seriously?
Sorry – any first time posters with a caps lock problem and the gall to blame a dead man for dying (without full details of the incident in question being available) is prime fodder for the cold shoulder as far as I’m concerned
I saw no evidence of this on his part either to be fair
He didn’t have a point of view – his post was what I called it – a rant.
Had he expressed any willingness to engage, any empathy, any thoughts about improvement (Dear Dog! Any thought at all would have been good) then maybe I could engage in reasoned debate
He is what he was treated as – a Troll – you can do two things with them, either ignore them or bait them till they choke on their own bile
I find it much more fun to do the latter – so sue me 😀
@TIPPERTRUCK DRIVING SHOUTING
@TIPPERTRUCK DRIVING SHOUTING CYCLIST I find it interesting that there is a bus lane wide enough for 2 tipper trucks in Whitechapel! I’ve never seen a road in Whitchapel wide enough for that, and a traffic lane, let alone any other oncoming traffic. Besides that, I’ve never seen a bus lane wide enough for anything more than 1 bus, let alone 2 tipper trucks. Please, please please tell me where it is so i can see the magic roundabout that must be at the end of it!
I’m sticking my neck on the
I’m sticking my neck on the line, but I actually agree with some of the things that Mr. BIG CAPS has said :S
I’ve driven in lorries around London, and unfortunately, there are some absolute knobheads on bicycles. I’ve been cycling for over thirty plus years and the roads are now more congested than ever. Never mind London; it’s the whole of GB. 🙁
I nearly ran over a girl on a fixed gear bike with no brakes. as she pulled out of a side street. When I pulled up at the lights she was on the phone with headphones in. She was totally oblivious to the world around her, so who’s at fault now?
We can all point the finger at Beemer drivers, trucks, mopeds, pedestrians, 4x4s etc. but the public transport is a feckin’ bad joke in all cities.
Whichever government is in “power” always screws up the roads regarding safety. The politicians are clueless and scared to make a decision, in case they lose votes.
So, to everyone on here, what do you expect and what will you do to prevent cyclists being killed?
Sustransoftie wrote:I’m
Don’t be afraid to put your head above the parapet; there are a number of HGV drivers on this forum. It’s good to hear things from a different perspective.
Sustransoftie wrote:I’m
Me too. People haven’t taken too kindly to his message, though I think that he’s written it with a degree of diplomacy which would be deemed wanting by foreign office standards.
There is a lot assumption in blaming the tipper truck driver here, and perhaps it is best to wait and hear the judicial outcome. Given that they were pulling off from a traffic light I wonder if he came up behind the truck and unwittingly dropped into a blind spot.
Unfortunately this does sound very much like the sort of thing the Met Police were trying to warn cyclists about which was posted on here recently, a bit like this:
I can totally see how drivers are stressed out by cyclists constantly dropping into their blind spots (which Cycling Trucker sounds like). I think he has come on here with good intentions (to highlight that many cyclists put themselves in danger). If he wanted to tell us what a bunch of c**ts cyclists were he’d simply write that. But he is giving vent to his frustration.
What many seem to lose sight of on here is that no commercial driver of a HGV wants to lose his license, or be responsible for a cyclists death. As Cycling Trucker has said, most of the drivers have been absolved of wrong doing (and I know someone will chime in with their views of the justice system – but they can’t all be wrong).
And, as many times as we talk about poor driving, we know there are as many poor cycling incidents. The main thing is drive and cycle as safely as we can.
Of course what has happened is very sad and regrettable. As others have pointed out the current infrastructure on that route is poor and the issues surrounding the uses of ASLs and HGVs are well known on this website. I just wish people would be a bit less reactionary in their condemnation. Hopefully this sad event will lead to more action to improve the CS2. But in the meantime keep cycling safely!
Sustransoftie wrote:I’m
I don’t think that you’re sticking your nexk out. You’re making sensible well reasons points and I’m not sure there are many who would disagree with you. Some cyclists are dangerous, and do not seem to realise how vulnerable they are, or if they do, obviously don’t value their life a great deal.
I don’t drive a motor
I don’t drive a motor vehicle, I ride a bicycle in London every day
the complete disregard shown for the law (highway code) by many cyclists is absolutely shocking when you witness it whilst commuting on a bicycle
Tonight I rode from WC2 to NW1 (only 3 miles) and at every red light I stopped at, numerous cyclists (mainly men on fixies and road bikes) happily sped through the red light and took their chances with pedestrians and oncoming traffic
I call these idiots “Traffic Light Gangsters” (TLG) because they are obviously ‘hard-men’ who don’t need to obey the law, or common sense, because of their gangster mentality.
When many cyclists are jumping lights, riding on pavements, riding against one-way traffic and doing whatever the hell they like, its not surprising that many motor vehicle drivers are seriously worried or pissed off at cyclists
of course we all see dangerous driving from private motor vehicles, taxis, HGV and London Bus, but acting like a stupid c*nt on your bike just antagonizes these people, and also more importantly puts yourself and others in danger, especially vulnerable pedestrians, or other road users who may be involved when an oncoming motor vehicle has to suddenly take evasive action to avoid a bicycle, only to then plough into another road user or bus stop!
I find it really rather
I find it really rather surprising at how many people will recount their personal anecdotes about bad cycling on a thread that is to do with a cyclist coming to an untimely end. It is more than a little distasteful in my humble opinion, even more so when we have no idea as to what happened and it smacks of prejudice.
@John Stevenson
thanks for
@John Stevenson
thanks for your input, its always welcome and very valid
whether cyclists have any reason to choose to stop at, or ignore a red light, does not matter?
jumping a red light is breaking the law regardess of the vehicle you are riding / driving, and I’d lump motorists into the same sentence as law breakers when they jump a red light.
on the commute I mentioned tonight, a motorist clearly jumped a red light next to Euston train station and nearly hit several cyclists who were moving forwards on the green light
he started swearing at the cyclists saying “don’t jump the f*cking lights”; thankfully a nice infra-red CCTV camera with ANPR on that junction constantly being monitored by the Met Police as its a notorious junction, that guy will be getting a fixed penalty notice in Tuesday’s post service.
for any cyclists jumping red lights, they have no number plates so they cannot be tracked by cameras, unlike motor vehicles? So how does anyone know who is causing accidents when there is not licensing for bicycles, and a bicycle may cause a motor vehicle accident by the stupidity / risk taking of the cyclist which then may impact on a motor vehicle and pedestrian seconds after the cyclists action
For the record I have been run over by 2 cyclists in Camden the past year, 1 jumping red light outside tube station knocking me to ground with bruised jaw and right arm, 1 on pavement next to canal knocking me against safety railing bruises on my back. it does happen, and I don’t appreciate it.