Third cyclist killed on London Cycle Superhighway, tipper lorry involved

Bad news guys - I think our refusal to get off his roads has made Mr. Shoutie leave in a huff

We shouldn't be dismissing Mr Shoutie's rant, any more than drivers should be dismissing what cyclists are saying. We have to work much more closely on this, and listen to what each group is saying.

Mr Shoutie has taken the trouble to contribute to a cycling forum, has probably read the many vitrolic reponses to his piece, and may have already decided that his views are not appreciated. No doubt his colleagues will similarly less inclined too. Is this barrier to communication really helpful when, given the painfully slow development of cycle friendly infrastructure, anything we can do to improve attitudes and understanding would be valuable ?

I do appreciate that cyclists get short thrift on HGV forums, so it works both ways, but we should all be more willing to listen to alternative points of view.

@TIPPERTRUCK DRIVING SHOUTING CYCLIST I find it interesting that there is a bus lane wide enough for 2 tipper trucks in Whitechapel! I've never seen a road in Whitchapel wide enough for that, and a traffic lane, let alone any other oncoming traffic. Besides that, I've never seen a bus lane wide enough for anything more than 1 bus, let alone 2 tipper trucks. Please, please please tell me where it is so i can see the magic roundabout that must be at the end of it!

I'm sticking my neck on the line, but I actually agree with some of the things that Mr. BIG CAPS has said

I've driven in lorries around London, and unfortunately, there are some absolute knobheads on bicycles. I've been cycling for over thirty plus years and the roads are now more congested than ever. Never mind London; it's the whole of GB.

I nearly ran over a girl on a fixed gear bike with no brakes. as she pulled out of a side street. When I pulled up at the lights she was on the phone with headphones in. She was totally oblivious to the world around her, so who's at fault now?

We can all point the finger at Beemer drivers, trucks, mopeds, pedestrians, 4x4s etc. but the public transport is a feckin' bad joke in all cities.

Whichever government is in "power" always screws up the roads regarding safety. The politicians are clueless and scared to make a decision, in case they lose votes.

So, to everyone on here, what do you expect and what will you do to prevent cyclists being killed?

I don't drive a motor vehicle, I ride a bicycle in London every day

the complete disregard shown for the law (highway code) by many cyclists is absolutely shocking when you witness it whilst commuting on a bicycle

Tonight I rode from WC2 to NW1 (only 3 miles) and at every red light I stopped at, numerous cyclists (mainly men on fixies and road bikes) happily sped through the red light and took their chances with pedestrians and oncoming traffic

I call these idiots "Traffic Light Gangsters" (TLG) because they are obviously 'hard-men' who don't need to obey the law, or common sense, because of their gangster mentality.

When many cyclists are jumping lights, riding on pavements, riding against one-way traffic and doing whatever the hell they like, its not surprising that many motor vehicle drivers are seriously worried or pissed off at cyclists

of course we all see dangerous driving from private motor vehicles, taxis, HGV and London Bus, but acting like a stupid c*nt on your bike just antagonizes these people, and also more importantly puts yourself and others in danger, especially vulnerable pedestrians, or other road users who may be involved when an oncoming motor vehicle has to suddenly take evasive action to avoid a bicycle, only to then plough into another road user or bus stop!

I find it really rather surprising at how many people will recount their personal anecdotes about bad cycling on a thread that is to do with a cyclist coming to an untimely end. It is more than a little distasteful in my humble opinion, even more so when we have no idea as to what happened and it smacks of prejudice.

@John Stevenson

thanks for your input, its always welcome and very valid

whether cyclists have any reason to choose to stop at, or ignore a red light, does not matter?

jumping a red light is breaking the law regardess of the vehicle you are riding / driving, and I'd lump motorists into the same sentence as law breakers when they jump a red light.

on the commute I mentioned tonight, a motorist clearly jumped a red light next to Euston train station and nearly hit several cyclists who were moving forwards on the green light

he started swearing at the cyclists saying "don't jump the f*cking lights"; thankfully a nice infra-red CCTV camera with ANPR on that junction constantly being monitored by the Met Police as its a notorious junction, that guy will be getting a fixed penalty notice in Tuesday's post service.

for any cyclists jumping red lights, they have no number plates so they cannot be tracked by cameras, unlike motor vehicles? So how does anyone know who is causing accidents when there is not licensing for bicycles, and a bicycle may cause a motor vehicle accident by the stupidity / risk taking of the cyclist which then may impact on a motor vehicle and pedestrian seconds after the cyclists action

For the record I have been run over by 2 cyclists in Camden the past year, 1 jumping red light outside tube station knocking me to ground with bruised jaw and right arm, 1 on pavement next to canal knocking me against safety railing bruises on my back. it does happen, and I don't appreciate it.

Am I the only one who thinks using capitals is the web equivalent of green ink in reader's letters from olden times?

As an aside...

- The number and all kinds of cyclists I've seen riding with earphones aren't doing themselves any favours. Why dull a sense needed to keep you alive?

- In the interest of balance, I saw a driver plugged into headphones too the other day. Didn't make sense to me either.

- I remember before the CSs were painted onto the roads, and we still had lots of the same problems as now.

- Tbh I get the impression that lots of people think "blue lane = safe now = brain off".

- How can reader of this website still think there's such a thing as 'road tax'? seriously?

LORRY DRIVERS,,,NEED TOO BE BANED FRUM THE ,,,,,,, ROADS UNTIL !! THEY CAN OBAY THE LAWS TWO!!!!! THEY ARE ARROGANT AND HAVE NO RESPECT FOR OTHER ROAD USERS..

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hgv-drivers-antics-putting-lives-37...

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10642009.Five_years_for_lorry...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2824249/Truck-driver-watched-Batt...

http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/t-stop-texting-Lorry-driver-caught-s...

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/mum-hope-fennell-stops-k...

https://twitter.com/markbikeslondon/status/355237125182066688

Nah - now we're just troll-baiting the nutter

I like a bit of well thought out and reasoned argument... keep it going all....

Who invited Keith Peat along ? All we're missing is "mixing with essential machinery".....

This is so sad and depressing.

Last year I rhetorically asked on another such forum how many deaths would it take for effective action to be taken to make cycling safer in London - such as proper segregated bike lanes, to which we can add a rush hour ban of HGVs.

It seems those with the power to take such action - the Mayor, TfL and the DfT - are happy to see the death and injury toll mount...

Some actual facts for Caps Lock-man

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-acciden...

and I should apologise - this is a DfT report - not the Met as previously stated

It's just sad that someone would take time to register to start an ill informed argument on an article about another tragic and avoidable road death for what can only be assumed to be the purposes of trolling.

Not every cyclist is perfect, not all lorry drivers are idiots but they're all human beings with families and friends. In this case one group of family and friends is mourning a loss while someone claiming to be both a professional driver and a cyclist comes on to infer blame on the cyclist and criticise legally and logically sound behaviours.

@trucking_cyclist

Is your Caps Lock key stuck?

Or do you *really* think shouting makes you seem more reasonable and reliable?

Again - quoting anecdotes is useless - and by the way official metropolitan police figures clear cyclists of blame in the vast majority of car/cycle incidents

Your ranting is NOT backed up by facts

YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT,,,NONE OF THESE DEATHS ARE CAUSED BY ANYONE OVERTAKING OR CUTTING UP...THEY ARE ALL AT TRAFFIC LIGHTS OR JUNCTIONS WHEN NO SELF RESPECTING CYCLIST SHOULD BE ANYWHERE NEAR A TRUCK,,LET ALONE HOLDING ONTO IT AS MANY DO.
I HAVE LIVED IN DRIVEN JUST ABOUT EVERY TYPE OF VEHICLE INCENTRAL LONDON ALL MY LIFE,INCLUDING CYCLING ON THE ROAD SINCE THE AGE OF 5 AND STILL DO,,,REGARDING THE CLOWN IN THE BUS LANE,,YOU WERE NOT THERE,,AND HE WAS NOT USING RECOGNISED PRACTICE..THE BUS LANE AT THAT POINT IS WIDE ENOUGH FOR 2 LORRIES...HE WAS A BLOODY MINDED FOOL PUTTING HIMSELF IN DANGER AS MANY CYCLISTS DO,,,LIKE THE FOOL THAT HITCHED A LIFT ON THE REAR CORNER OF MY TRUCK TO GET UP ARCHWAY HILL....AND ENDED UP WITH A DISLOCATED SHOULDER WHEN THE TRAFFIC STOPPED.
UNTIL CYCLISTS OBEY THE RULES OF THE ROAD,,,THE LEGAL ONES AND THE COMMON SENSE ONES,,YHIS WILL KEEP HAPPENING,,,A MAJORITY OF DRIVERS ARE CLEARED OF BLAME IN THESE CASES AND THE FACT THAT THE DRIVER LAST NIGHT HAS NOT BEEN ARRESTED POINTS TO THE SAME THING HAPPENING AGAIN,,,,THE CYCLIST BEING AT FAULT...MANY ARE SO INTERESTED AT CYCLING AT SPEED THAT THEY ARE NOT EVEN AWARE OF TRAFFIC AROUND THEM,,,AND THOSE WITH EARPHONES AND MUSIC PLAYING...AS I SAID GET REAL.

@trucking_cyclist

I have to say your creating an account here specifically to engage in ranting which shows many of the ill-informed biases we have come to expect from poor drivers has done nothing except make you look bad and entrench some cyclists anti-motorists view

on vehicular cycling - please note 'taking the lane' is recommended by the Institute of Advanced Motoring - although you may not have heard of them

on tax-paying motorists - as already noted, roads are paid for from general taxation, not Vehicle License Duty - road tax was abolished before world war 2 by Churchill specifically to avoid motorists believing it's 'their road'

and your merry diatribe of poor cyclists is as nothing to the tales of indifference, arrogance and sheer stupidity any regular cycle commuter could regale you with regarding drivers

in short - what exactly was your point?

This so sad

I've ridden CS2 once while I was living in London and have to say it was the single most scary experience of my life. It's horrendous and completely unsafe for cyclists. Quite literally the blue gauntlet.

As a cyclist I'm glad to see the back of that City, something's got to give, it just gets worse. >.<

Condolences and respects to those who knew the cyclist involved.

@truckingcyclist

You want me to start listing all the examples of lunatic motorists I've seen over the years in London? It would take all day and fill up the entire site.

Trucks often endanger cyclists because they, the trucks, are badly driven. They overtake then cut across cyclists, they overttake dangerously close and fast (they do this a lot), and they roll right over both cyclists and pedestrians who are right in front of them. Near me the corner pavement is completely smashed up because trucks regularly drive right over the pavement when turning.

(Though personally my sense is the bigger the HGV the more skilled the driver is likely to be - its actually the smaller trucks that are the worst).

On the subject of entitled motorist behaviour, I'm still rolling my eyes at the car I saw parked yesterday - 3/4 on the pavement, on a double-red line, right across the dropped kerb at a major, light-controlled, pedestrian crossing, right at a junction, completely blocking both the pedestrian crossing AND the busy pavement and partly blocking the road so that buses had great trouble squeezing past.

All so he could stop directly outside a takaway food place rather than down a side-street requriing a 100 yard walk. Its not directly relevant to this tragic incident, but its a typical example of entitled motorist behaviour.

Something odd happens to too many people's brains when they get behind the wheel of a motorised vehicle. I reckon its the combination of lethal power and isolation.

Your telling cyclists they should get off 'your' road and take some other route is a good example of the worrying sense of entitlement that too many drivers exhibit.

Condolences to all who knew this cyclist. And almost regardless of how this happened, or whether they did anything "wrong", they are still another victim of our car-centric road design.

My Tweet to Boris the clown :

skippy mc carthy ‏@skippydetour 2m
@SafeCyclingOz @mayoroflondon SHAME ON YOU ! Your CS2 DEATH TRAP requires http://road.cc/sites/default/files/Prevention%20of%20Future%20Deaths%20r... … …NOW! Not WHEN! How MANYmore Cyclists LOST?

His minders will NOT show it to him !

Another bad hair day for him ?

Will be adding to skippi-cyclist.blogspot.com later today .