TfL plans to fine motorists and dock points from licences for ignoring Advanced Stop Lines

Can't motorcyclists and cyclists get together on this as we are all just as vulnerable on the roads?

I really think something may happen if we a all spoke from the same script.

I am both a cyclist and a motorcyclist. I usually cycle to work 2 or 3 days per week and drive my motorbike when I need to. When driving my motorbike always use the "cycle boxes" as I find it much safer to do so. I normally filter through traffic on the right hand side, and come to rest in the right hand side of the box, so I very rarely impede and cyclists who are congregated on the left.
I find that whenever I cannot get into the box, I'm left sitting in a drivers blind spot. Then when the lights turn green I have to try to make my way back into the flow of traffic between the cars and buses, who are often less than accommodating.
The reason the bike boxes are there in the first place, is because cyclists are more vulnerable than other road users. But surely motorcyclists are just as vulnerable. I really think its unfair to penalise motorcyclists for positioning in the safest part of the road. Can't all vulnerable road users just share the safe zone?

[[[[[ I seem to recall a promise of "CCTV at every junction in every town". That never happened, so I don't hold out much hope for ASL enforcement any time soon. As for the police's attitude over the years, I have had six very different excuses from the six cops I've questioned about their seemingly universal disinterest in the problem.
Let's see if TFL can do any better.
P.R.

Seems like a huge waste of money (enforcement cameras) to me, and just another way to rake in some cash. The only way for a motorist to avoid being caught in such areas when lights change is to treat it as a "keep clear" area. That may work is some places but if there are two or more lanes, you can be sure you'll get cut up.

One reason people avoid bus lanes even out of the time restrictions is unfamiliarity. If you are driving in an area for the first time, you have to take in a lot and reading the fine print on the bus lane signs is not a priority.

A better idea would be an education campaign with advertising, then an enforcement action with warnings handed out and eventual full enforcement in person. But we know that's almost unheard of now.

Interesting that this load of hot air is coming from tfl, whose employees are some of the worst offenders. I am, of course, referring to bus drivers who, if they're not encroaching on the ASL completely , think that it's ok if their wheels are stopped before the ASL even if 2m or so of bus is still poking its way into the area supposedly reserved for cyclists.

Having complained to tfl on numerous occasions about this and got precisely nowhere, I'll be pleasantly surprised if this suggestion actually comes to fruition.

I mean, let's look at the practicalities of it: the technology has been present for years to film and prosecute motorists who red light jump at junctions but has barely been implemented. And we're expected to believe that now cameras will be placed to catch ASL encroachers?

Tosh!

Pity it's just London and not nationwide.

This is only enforcing the law about red lights. The ASL is beyond the stop line, hence if you drive over it on red you have jumped the lights.
It's not hard to avoid stopping in one. Just treat it like a box junction (that you can get through it, or wait if you can't). It's not hard.
I think most drivers know, but don't care. Most motorcyclists know, but want to get to the front so ignore them.

Would there have been any more resentment shown to bus drivers when they started fining for driving in the bus lanes? Pretty sure if there was it was short-lived and drivers just accept that if they cross the line they pay the fine.

Personally I think it's just good to see a pro-cyclist push like this full-stop.

Now if only there was a way to discourage / catch / fine RLJers (bicycles and motor vehicles) as easily we'd really be getting somewhere

Great news. 60 quid and three points does seem a little harsh, possibly harsh enough to spark some anti-cyclist resentment, so it's good to see the changes being flagged up clearly in advance.

£60 is NOTHING. With just 3 points on your licence, your insurance premium will go up by HUNDREDS. For years. No one considers that points cost a fortune in the long run.

to be honest the best step forward would be to ban the hardship clause. 12 points and you loose your licence no arguments, no exceptions.

Then we can start looking at punishing law breaking drivers more throughly, crossing solid white lines, illegal parking etc. ASLs. yes they should be enforced but to me they aren't top of the list.

I have anecdotal evidence of cyclists getting a bollocking from the dibble for going over the white line - but only having to do so because a car was in the ASL - which the dibble conveniently ignore.

Agree with earlier comment at how annoying it is when motorcyclists use the asl. Having said that, I think introducing a fine is unnecessary and antagonistic towards car drivers. I wonder if Andrew Gilligan drives? It's incredibly easy to pass into the asl box when you drive.

Paint ALL of the boxes blue. The green one's are often encroached by motorists but the blue one's seem to have a deterrent effect - quite possibly because they are much more visible to drivers than the green one's.

Think giving drivers points is a step too far. Yeah they need to learn to respect cyclists more, but this will just make them annoyed and hate cyclists even if its not the cyclists themselves issuing fines.

You're driving along and approaching traffic lights which turn to amber. Do you:

a) Brake and stop within the ASL to get points and a fine.
Or
b) Run a red light to get points and a fine.

Are you sure its docking points? I've always thought that inferred points being taken away, rather than points being added?

"Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the 1st white line....". Horses and bikes can go past the 1st white line into the ASL, but if you're propelled by motorised means you can't. Rumour has it that Cancellara stops at the 1st line

What about motorbikes and scooters? They're often worse at taking up space than cars.

I think this is the pic they might have been looking for.

Credit and kudos to http://manchestersadvanceddrivers.blogspot.co.uk/

Oh. And this cannot come too soon.

Is that an average intersection or just an anamoly? That pic drives me nuts.