- News
- Reviews
- Bikes
- Accessories
- Accessories - misc
- Computer mounts
- Bags
- Bar ends
- Bike bags & cases
- Bottle cages
- Bottles
- Cameras
- Car racks
- Child seats
- Computers
- Glasses
- GPS units
- Helmets
- Lights - front
- Lights - rear
- Lights - sets
- Locks
- Mirrors
- Mudguards
- Racks
- Pumps & CO2 inflators
- Puncture kits
- Reflectives
- Smart watches
- Stands and racks
- Trailers
- Clothing
- Components
- Bar tape & grips
- Bottom brackets
- Brake & gear cables
- Brake & STI levers
- Brake pads & spares
- Brakes
- Cassettes & freewheels
- Chains
- Chainsets & chainrings
- Derailleurs - front
- Derailleurs - rear
- Forks
- Gear levers & shifters
- Groupsets
- Handlebars & extensions
- Headsets
- Hubs
- Inner tubes
- Pedals
- Quick releases & skewers
- Saddles
- Seatposts
- Stems
- Wheels
- Tyres
- Health, fitness and nutrition
- Tools and workshop
- Miscellaneous
- Buyers Guides
- Features
- Forum
- Recommends
- Podcast
news
Velolife (via Facebook)Council says cyclists can’t meet at Berkshire cycling café
A cycling café in Warren Row, Berkshire, could go out of business after the Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead issued an injunction barring cyclists from meeting there or even making a stop during organised club rides.
Velolife opened in 2016 in what was formerly The Snooty Fox, a pub that had been closed for about 18 months and had struggled leading up to that.
In 2017, Velolife was issued with an enforcement notice alleging a breach of planning control. The requirements of the notice were that owner Lee Goodwin cease to use the premises as a café, meeting place, cycle repair facility and for retail use.
Goodwin appealed the decision and Velolife was permitted to continue as a café with a bike workshop, but could not be used for retail. In her appeal decision, the inspector also changed the wording of the other element from “meeting place” to “cyclists’ meet” and upheld that.
The issue, it seems, was that a neighbour had been disturbed by groups of cyclists congregating close to their property in the early mornings and evenings.
“It is likely that this level of noise and disturbance would be more discernible and different in character from the activities that might have arisen from the former use a public house where, for example, patrons might have arrived and departed at more staggered intervals and not during the early morning,” reasoned the inspector.
Explaining the rewording, she said that the term “meeting place” was wide in its meaning and could encompass a range of purposes, “whereas the allegation is intended to target the use of the land as a place where cyclists meet prior to departing on organised rides and events.”
She concluded that if planning permission were granted for use as a “cyclist’s meet,” events could be held more frequently, “and this element could intensify.”
The disturbance caused also led her to impose restrictions on Velolife’s opening hours, so that the business can only open between 9am and 7pm.
“We were happy with the decision because we could still have cyclists come through and use us as a cycling stop,” Goodwin tells road.cc. “All we were not to do was organise club rides that started at Velolife – which we don’t do.
“However, the council decided to take the notion that a “cyclists’ meet” encompassed any gathering of cyclists before, during or after a ride of any sort.”
An injunction issued this week now says that Goodwin has to prevent cyclists from meeting at Velolife.
The enforcement notice states: “It is the Council opinion that [cyclist meets] involves, and will include the gathering of cyclists for organised rides, whether they start, finish, or are constructed to use the land and building during such events. If, at any stage during a cyclist’s meet, the activity is engaged on the land or in the building will constitute a breach of the requirements to cease the use.”
Some clubs in the borough have also been issued with injunction notices, saying that they may not use Velolife at any point during any organised ride they do.
Goodwin says that the decision is discriminatory towards cyclists, “because anybody else can gather whenever they feel, in whatever numbers they feel. You could come by elephant or car or tractor if you wanted.”
Nevertheless, he has been forced to take to Facebook to urge local cyclists not to meet at Velolife prior to departing on a ride or then after the ride has finished, adding: “Not complying with these rules jeopardises Velolife’s future.”
Goodwin explains: “Even if the council and I are having a slight difference of opinion on what the inspectorate actually had in mind, with the council’s opinion they can prosecute me and force me to stop cyclists coming on site and basically destroy my business, where myself I have no access to that.
“I have to apparently sit and take it. When we do finally land up in court – and the earliest will be in November – I won’t have a business to defend if they stop cyclists coming on site.”
Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.
Latest Comments
- mark1a 2 hours 29 min ago
I understand what you're saying, but I think when you get north of £10k, for the average amateur road.cc reader who maybe in the market for a so...
- brooksby 5 hours 37 min ago
They haven't been seen for ages- did they get banned?
- eburtthebike 5 hours 43 min ago
They prefer their alternative facts to real ones. They believe something, therefore it must be true.
- Spangly Shiny 6 hours 55 min ago
Sorry, no idea what you are on about.
- ktache 6 hours 58 min ago
For double that you can' get a Pedro's vise whip Ii. Or half, the reportedly excellent decathlon thingy. And Sigma has the Silca for only £150.
- KDee 7 hours 4 min ago
I'm no detective, but the "NOAHFAST" decal vertically stickered on the headtube is a little bit of a clue.
- Spangly Shiny 7 hours 24 min ago
I remember my driving test examiner, straight after congratulating me for having passed the test said, "Don't be a twat and have that as your best...
- Bigfoz 9 hours 32 min ago
Did they think it was a drive thru?
- Rendel Harris 9 hours 42 min ago
As a teacher's husband, I'm allowed to watch up to 50km out (unless it's a big mountain stage when I can only watch up to the start of the first HC...
Add new comment
43 comments
Well if Velolife isn't available as a ride meeting place how about the council offices. Weekday rides at around 8.30am for 9.00am start... Police would probably get involved quite quickly and obstruction the Queen's footpath is an offence so they'd have grounds to move you on or arrest you and I think the old Riot Act might still be in force so they could order any group of more than 3 to disperse - I'm not a lawyer so I threw the preceding in just as a reminder not to push it with the Police - you want them onside. Or how about Cyclist rights demo.
I'm not sure how meeting outside the council offices would either help or hinder their case.
It's a complaint by a miserable old sod who lives in the car park of the cafe..
If we switch this around a bit, if you said resident and were woken up at 7am every Saturday and Sunday by a load of mainly blokes all shouting and joking with each other, you'd be pretty miffed also.
I have some sympathies with the resident here, that wasn't something that happened until the cafe opened. They are clearly older and used to run the pub, I bet when they sold it to the cafe owner they thought they'd just retire to a nice quiet life.
We don't know what's been said between the cafe owner and the resident, how reasonable or unreasonable either party has been to get to the point of an injunction. Common sense would suggest that there probably should have been a bit of 'please tell the cyclists who meet here to keep the noise down, or meet at the other end of the car park not outside my house' whether there was or not is unknown.
I totally agree that the whole 'cyclist meeting place' injunction is overboard and indeed sounds to me like it breeches some civil rights act somewhere.. but there are always two sides and there's some darn militant responses going on here.
Well if Velolife isn't available as a ride meeting place how about the council offices. Weekday rides at around 8.30am for 9.00am start... Police would probably get involved quite quickly and obstruction the Queen's footpath is an offence so they'd have grounds to move you on or arrest you and I think the old Riot Act might still be in force so they could order any group of more than 3 to disperse - I'm not a lawyer so I threw the preceding in just as a reminder not to push it with the Police - you want them onside. Or how about Cyclist rights demo.
Well if Velolife isn't available as a ride meeting place how about the council offices. Weekday rides at around 8.30am for 9.00am start... Police would probably get involved quite quickly and obstruction the Queen's footpath is an offence so they'd have grounds to move you on or arrest you and I think the old Riot Act might still be in force so they could order any group of more than 3 to disperse - I'm not a lawyer so I threw the preceding in just as a reminder not to push it with the Police - you want them onside. Or how about Cyclist rights demo.
This is a serious point of principle and can not be allowed to stand. You can not discriminate against a certain section of the population who share a common interest. This is how the trades union were suppressed in the 18th & 19th century. There must be a smart solicitor somewhere who will take this up, also, who is the local MP.
It needs addressing as it could well set a precedent.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but this is Britain. Our rulers can do what the hell they want with us, or to us.
Should we all drive to Velolife?? Park on the pavements?? Rev the engines and do burnouts???
See how the locals like that
Can definitely be arranged by those that live in the area with the right contacts
People hate because they ain't. Humans seem to require an "other" group to pick on. In the past they did this on the basis of race, sexuality or gender. Now all those avenues have been closed, we are the target.
How about velolife organise an event where a large group of pedestrians meet up early every morning and late every night every single day for a week.
I would love to see the council say I'm sorry you can't use your cafe for any meet or gathering of pedestrians.....
What about if they just replaced their car park with LOTS of bike parking? "A gathering of cyclists? Nope, they're just all parking here because its convenient..."
Its like banning a gathering of motorists and then finding out its a car park.
The resident complaining obviously used to run the pub before it went out of business and is jealous of any other people managing to run a sucessful establishment in the same building.
Makes them look even more like the failures that they obviously were, but they still have enough money after the sale of the pub to donate a brown envelope full of 20's towards the planning departments Christmas bash.
Where there are people there will always be corruption in my experience.
Why not engage with the local MP for some help? I hear Theresa's not too busy currently!
Other meeting places have cyclist meet ups, eg Brewdog pubs have formal cycling chapters that start and end their rides on their premises. Wonder what planning / concent they have?
Shame the nearest example is across the borough in Reading, so can't be used as a prcedent https://www.brewdog.com/uk/locations/bar-experience/chain-gang
Wish Lee the best of luck with this issue
The appropriate response in this case would be a series of mass gatherings on the pavements outside of the Town Hall on St Ives in Maidenhead, Berkshire -- as this judgement was relayed by Duncan Starky, MD Maidenhead Town Council. (https://twitter.com/sojodrell/status/1156319247964037123, https://acp.p...)
Bonus points for turning up with coffee brewing and cake making ingredients, a necessary step due to the unwarranted and discriminatory ban preventing cyclists from visiting Velolife for the same.
NIMBY neighbour (with a friend on the council).
Say it's a meeting place for gay cyclists, put up a rainbow flag and watch the council leave you alone.
So frustrating, but that's probably the quickest way to get this all to go away.
What a great problem to have, that this cafe is doing so well. But, it doesn’t sound like the owner got his planning issues right, at the start.
Not sure I can be arsed to register to pay 20p to read this in full, sounds like a sympathetic headline at least:
https://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co.uk/news/maidenhead/148331/popular-k...
I’m interested in the “injunction notices” mentioned in the article to CCs in the area - we surely don’t mean an actual legal injunction, do we?
It sounds like the owner received an Enforcement Notice in 2017 because he didn’t apply for planning permission to change the use to include retail (I think that a cafe and a pub are in the same Use Class). Normally the “bike nights” that you get with some pubs are regarded as incidental to the main use, even if it’s the “I have no idea where all the baffles in my exhaust can have gone owners’ club”. Music and dancing have to be licenced.
If it’s a new Enforcement Notice he’s now received, he can appeal that too, and if he’s feeling brave maybe continue with a reasonable level of “meet” activity, associated (“incidental”) with the activities he now has planning permission to carry on. He needs the services of a planning lawyer - I’ve been out of this area for over 10 years. Never sub-divide a plot or create a shared access and stay on the scene yourself, and be wary of any former landowner still being around if you’re buying - there’s something about this that frequently leads to problems.
A complaint to the Local Governemt Ombudsman is free - but there need to be grounds for this. The approach and actions being taken by the Council just don’t sound proportionate to the problem.
We’re in a rural area here, trying hard to hold onto that identity; the stakes on land values and usage are high and people do try it on. Locals will remember the Shire Horse Centre debacle a few years ago and not far away in Wokingham Borough, the Sheeplands Garden Garden Centre debacle. These things take years to resolve, usually.
Clubs just need to ride in civvies rather than club kit (save it for racing) and stagger their arrival. Then it is just a bunch of mates and 'oh fancy seeing you here' . Job done.
Still, can't believe the council are being such prats about this. I've ridden through warren row for years and velolife is the most vibrant business to occupy the premises. I wonder what tbe council make if it becomes flats or houses...
Maybe the 'cyclists' that use it can drive there one day and as 'drivers' park enmasse outside Ivy Cottage, even maybe parking on their drive if they have one as I understand it's not illegal or walk there and as pedestrians just congregate all obviously without using the facilities so no blame can be attached to the cafe. LOL.
With a pre-requisite that they have noisy exhausts and and make use of the car park long after the cafe has closed.
Pedantic fucking red tape shit , instigated by some wanker who uses the little power he or she have to make them self feel important.
If the neighbour is complaining about cyclists then he should come and live in Clapton where I was brought up I had a shooting “murder”happen right out side our front window? I’d would have given anything for a few skinny nerd cyclists stop by and ride off talking about nerd bike shit.
Fuck me .....
on the other hand, if velolife is closed down due to actions that they can't possibly have any control over, then it should become the first choice of meeting place.
Its a shame that it has come to this.
Velolife is a fantastic place to stop and have a cup of hot brown and they serve yummy cakes and sandywitches. I can kind of understand (And I'm only guessing here), that the problem stems from the house that sits behind Velolife. And I can understand that they wouldnt want loads of riders meeting up early in the morning and making loads of noise. Also If I had people leaning bikes up against my front gates that would vex me somewhat. Velolife is very well known and as a meeting point its perfect but there are plenty of other places people can meet, the junction by the A4 for one. Loads of space there. Loads of space. People will have to change their meeting places. My club, Beaconsfield CC meet in Beaconsfield in the old town, but we have had problems in the past with grumpy people (who cant ride anymore and dont you to have any fun either).
In my mind this is easy to solve. Dont use Velolife as a meeting point. Be respectful of the occupants in the house that is at the back of Velolife, (and dont lean your bikes against their gates). Lee's put in lots of bike storage and even at the busyest of times, there's space. People need to top and tail the bikes. As riders we are not usually, unless we are yelling for our favorite rider on one of the great tours, a noisy lot. And as the cafe shuts early in the evening shouldnt be to disruptive and perhaps less noisy than a pub at chucking out time.
It must also be mentioned that its not just riders that use Velolife. Dog walkers, walkers and those annoying people who take up a table for 7/8 to sit on their laptops and buy 1 coffee and use the cafe's free wifi. (There should be a collective noun for those people). Inconsiderant W*****S springs to mind.
So. I hope we can all behave (If behave is the correct term) and keep this wonderful facility going.
I for one would be very very sad to see it go. Lee, Hayden, Sam and all the other guys and gals do a great job.
Pete B Beaconsfield CC/
PS. If the people who live in the house at the back of Velolife used to run the Snooty Fox are seeing how well Velolife are doing could they be trying to get it closed so they could take it over as a thriving going concern? That happened to a cafe in Watlington and people (riders) Never went there again and it closed soon after.
I think that's where I'd be laying my bet!
This appears to be all because of one resident - Ivy Cottage, whose house is literally in the pub car park. It sort of smacks of the same NIMBYism of those people who buy a house next to a church, then complain about the bells.
I note that the cellar doors are right next to Ivy Cottage. When it was a pub I wonder what time the brewery would deliver barrels of beer? 9am - quite likely sooner? Would that be as disruptive as a few cyclists ‘in likely high spirits’ as the planning officer muses (whatever that infers!!).
Turn it back into a pub that welcomes cyclists then. Call it the ‘lairy Lycra lout’, open ‘till 12am with deliveries early in the morning. A good selection of real ale, live music, but also coffee and cake. Of course, as a coaching inn, it might need to also have a carriage repair facility too...
Looks like the same resident used to run the pub. This is a whole new level of weird NIMBYism.
I'm not entirely without sympathy about neighbours disturbed by noise. I have a pub near me, where the patrons always stand outside to make mobile phone calls and it seems like 90% of such conversations involve loud swearing and shouting about a partner sleeping with someone else or threats to smash someones face in if they don't pay up the money they owe. Mobile phone users clearly have disproportionate problems with infidelity and debt.
But it sounds a very strange and arbitrary ruling. How on Earth do they define 'organised'? Or 'cyclist', come to that?
Selection effect. "Mobile phone users" is almost everyone these days. "Mobile phone users who have a loud conversation outside a pub" is a much smaller set, with the debt and infidelity problems.
Good question: how do you define "cyclist". If a person rode there, got off their bike on the road outside then walked to the cafe, at what point do they stop being a cyclist (subject to the injunction) and become a pedestrian (not subject to the injunction)?
Pages