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Human rights lawyer concerned that wardens enforcing PSPOs may have incentive to issue as many cycling fines as possible

Thousands being punished for “entirely innocuous actions” according to Lib Dem peer

As the number of people fined for cycling in areas covered by Public Spaces Protection Orders (PSPO) continues to rise, a lawyer for human rights charity, Liberty, has expressed concern that wardens may be, "acting with incentives to issue as many fines as possible".

PSPOs allow for fixed penalty notices to be issued for a series of offences and several towns have used them to ban cycling in certain areas.

PSPOs are controversial for criminalising behaviour that would not normally be illegal and also for the way in which they are sometimes enforced.

Last month a man fined for cycling in Peterborough asked whether the PSPO there was just a money-making exercise.

Stephen, who had been riding at walking pace, carrying his two-year-old daughter in a rear child’s seat, said: “It stunned me at the time that I was not simply asked to dismount and pointed out the reasoning, but instead was issued a fine.”

Last year we reported how the enforcement firm patrolling the Peterborough PSPO area, Kingdom, collected over £80,000 in fines for unauthorised cycling in a little under a year.

The BBC now reports that the number of people being fined has risen further.

Fixed penalty notices were issued to 1,533 people for "unauthorised cycling" in 2018, as well as to 861 for spitting, and to 13 for "failure to disperse".

Nor is it just Peterborough. Campaign group The Manifesto Club, which uncovered the figures through a Freedom of Information Request, found that there has been a 420% increase in PSPO fines since 2016, when there were only 1,906 issued in England and Wales.

About 60% of the 9,930 fines were issued by just four councils – Peterborough (2,430), Bedford (1,489), Hillingdon (1,125) and Waltham Forest (966).

All four use private companies to enforce the PSPO.

Rosie Brighouse, a lawyer for human rights charity Liberty, said she was concerned some wardens were "acting with incentives to issue as many fines as possible".

Liberal Democrat peer Lord Tim Clement-Jones said: "The shocking rise in petty PSPOs and fines means that thousands of people are being punished for entirely innocuous actions."

A Local Government Association spokesman said: "PSPOs are one of a number of ways councils can tackle anti-social behaviour problem.

"PSPOs will not be suitable or effective in all circumstances, and councils will consider other approaches which may better resolve the anti-social behaviour identified."

A Home Office spokesman said: "We are clear PSPOs should be used proportionately to tackle anti-social behaviour."

Bedford Borough Council is currently consulting on the renewal of its PSPO banning cycling, which is due to expire later this year. Campaigners say there has been a decline in the number of people riding into the town centre since it was introduced in 2016.

Earlier this year, round-the-world cyclist Josh Quigley was handed a £75 fine for riding his bike in Bedford town centre.

The Livingstone cyclist, who was just a week into his trip, tore up the ticket and said he wouldn’t pay, arguing that local councils should be encouraging people to get on their bikes, not punishing them.

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

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38 comments

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tarquin_foxglove | 4 years ago
0 likes

This is Peterborough's PSPO page & includes a very informative video over why cycling in Peterborough is undertaken by the devil's spawn:
https://www.peterborough.gov.uk/residents/saferpeterborough/public-space...

Also a link to the actual order:
https://pcc-live.storage.googleapis.com/upload/www.peterborough.gov.uk/r...

In the vid' they stop that guy before they enter the street, which is fair enough but I still think they should give people an opportunity to modify their behaviour if called on it after they've entered the street, without incurring a fine.

Avatar
FluffyKittenofT... | 4 years ago
1 like

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

  Even Swindon has 'the magic roundabout' and 'the european space agency'.  Now Peterborough is, for me, 'the town where they banned cycling'.  (That just leaves Northhampton as 'the town that I know nothing about at all'.)

Avatar
tarquin_foxglove replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 4 years ago
0 likes
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them. 

On the East Coast Mainline, so you pass through it on your way to much nicer places like Grantham, Newark North Gate, Retford, ... ok ok ... York, Durham, Newcastle & Edinburgh.

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tarquin_foxglove replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 4 years ago
0 likes

[double post]

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 4 years ago
3 likes
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

  Even Swindon has 'the magic roundabout' and 'the european space agency'.  Now Peterborough is, for me, 'the town where they banned cycling'.  (That just leaves Northhampton as 'the town that I know nothing about at all'.)

Northhampton is the birth-place of Alan Moore (one of my favourite authors). Now you know something.

Avatar
don simon fbpe replied to hawkinspeter | 4 years ago
1 like
hawkinspeter wrote:
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

  Even Swindon has 'the magic roundabout' and 'the european space agency'.  Now Peterborough is, for me, 'the town where they banned cycling'.  (That just leaves Northhampton as 'the town that I know nothing about at all'.)

Northhampton is the birth-place of Alan Moore (one of my favourite authors). Now you know something.

I am about 20% of the way through Jerusalem, so about 10,000 pages read, just another 4 million to go. I feel like I know Northampton intimately.

Peterborough has a rowing lake and a decent chippy, some poor lad died while we at the regatta. Not all good memories.

Avatar
brooksby replied to don simon fbpe | 4 years ago
1 like
don simon fbpe wrote:
hawkinspeter wrote:
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

  Even Swindon has 'the magic roundabout' and 'the european space agency'.  Now Peterborough is, for me, 'the town where they banned cycling'.  (That just leaves Northhampton as 'the town that I know nothing about at all'.)

Northhampton is the birth-place of Alan Moore (one of my favourite authors). Now you know something.

I am about 20% of the way through Jerusalem, so about 10,000 pages read, just another 4 million to go. I feel like I know Northampton intimately.

Peterborough has a rowing lake and a decent chippy, some poor lad died while we at the regatta. Not all good memories.

Well done. I've got a copy of Jerusalem sitting on my bookshelf glowering at me and daring me to crack the cover...

Avatar
don simon fbpe replied to brooksby | 4 years ago
2 likes
brooksby wrote:
don simon fbpe wrote:
hawkinspeter wrote:
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

  Even Swindon has 'the magic roundabout' and 'the european space agency'.  Now Peterborough is, for me, 'the town where they banned cycling'.  (That just leaves Northhampton as 'the town that I know nothing about at all'.)

Northhampton is the birth-place of Alan Moore (one of my favourite authors). Now you know something.

I am about 20% of the way through Jerusalem, so about 10,000 pages read, just another 4 million to go. I feel like I know Northampton intimately.

Peterborough has a rowing lake and a decent chippy, some poor lad died while we at the regatta. Not all good memories.

Well done. I've got a copy of Jerusalem sitting on my bookshelf glowering at me and daring me to crack the cover...

Go for it, it's not as daunting as it looks.

Avatar
brooksby replied to don simon fbpe | 4 years ago
1 like
don simon fbpe wrote:
brooksby wrote:
don simon fbpe wrote:
hawkinspeter wrote:
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

  Even Swindon has 'the magic roundabout' and 'the european space agency'.  Now Peterborough is, for me, 'the town where they banned cycling'.  (That just leaves Northhampton as 'the town that I know nothing about at all'.)

Northhampton is the birth-place of Alan Moore (one of my favourite authors). Now you know something.

I am about 20% of the way through Jerusalem, so about 10,000 pages read, just another 4 million to go. I feel like I know Northampton intimately.

Peterborough has a rowing lake and a decent chippy, some poor lad died while we at the regatta. Not all good memories.

Well done. I've got a copy of Jerusalem sitting on my bookshelf glowering at me and daring me to crack the cover...

Go for it, it's not as daunting as it looks.

It couldn't be 

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to brooksby | 4 years ago
1 like
brooksby wrote:
don simon fbpe wrote:
brooksby wrote:
don simon fbpe wrote:
hawkinspeter wrote:
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

  Even Swindon has 'the magic roundabout' and 'the european space agency'.  Now Peterborough is, for me, 'the town where they banned cycling'.  (That just leaves Northhampton as 'the town that I know nothing about at all'.)

Northhampton is the birth-place of Alan Moore (one of my favourite authors). Now you know something.

I am about 20% of the way through Jerusalem, so about 10,000 pages read, just another 4 million to go. I feel like I know Northampton intimately.

Peterborough has a rowing lake and a decent chippy, some poor lad died while we at the regatta. Not all good memories.

Well done. I've got a copy of Jerusalem sitting on my bookshelf glowering at me and daring me to crack the cover...

Go for it, it's not as daunting as it looks.

It couldn't be 

I haven't started that one yet either. It received glowing praise from a (real life) friend, but I find it difficult to read long books with my squirrel like powers of attention.

Avatar
don simon fbpe replied to hawkinspeter | 4 years ago
0 likes
hawkinspeter wrote:
brooksby wrote:
don simon fbpe wrote:
brooksby wrote:
don simon fbpe wrote:
hawkinspeter wrote:
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

  Even Swindon has 'the magic roundabout' and 'the european space agency'.  Now Peterborough is, for me, 'the town where they banned cycling'.  (That just leaves Northhampton as 'the town that I know nothing about at all'.)

Northhampton is the birth-place of Alan Moore (one of my favourite authors). Now you know something.

I am about 20% of the way through Jerusalem, so about 10,000 pages read, just another 4 million to go. I feel like I know Northampton intimately.

Peterborough has a rowing lake and a decent chippy, some poor lad died while we at the regatta. Not all good memories.

Well done. I've got a copy of Jerusalem sitting on my bookshelf glowering at me and daring me to crack the cover...

Go for it, it's not as daunting as it looks.

It couldn't be 

I haven't started that one yet either. It received glowing praise from a (real life) friend, but I find it difficult to read long books with my squirrel like powers of attention.

OK, so at 24% (and 4-6 weeks in) each of the chaprters have been like a short book in themselves, not totally interlinked to the other chapters, but obviously connected as part of the larger book.

E-book still says there are over 40 hours of reading to go.

Is it a film yet? I've got a free wekend in June.

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to don simon fbpe | 4 years ago
1 like
don simon fbpe wrote:
hawkinspeter wrote:
brooksby wrote:
don simon fbpe wrote:
brooksby wrote:
don simon fbpe wrote:
hawkinspeter wrote:
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

  Even Swindon has 'the magic roundabout' and 'the european space agency'.  Now Peterborough is, for me, 'the town where they banned cycling'.  (That just leaves Northhampton as 'the town that I know nothing about at all'.)

Northhampton is the birth-place of Alan Moore (one of my favourite authors). Now you know something.

I am about 20% of the way through Jerusalem, so about 10,000 pages read, just another 4 million to go. I feel like I know Northampton intimately.

Peterborough has a rowing lake and a decent chippy, some poor lad died while we at the regatta. Not all good memories.

Well done. I've got a copy of Jerusalem sitting on my bookshelf glowering at me and daring me to crack the cover...

Go for it, it's not as daunting as it looks.

It couldn't be 

I haven't started that one yet either. It received glowing praise from a (real life) friend, but I find it difficult to read long books with my squirrel like powers of attention.

OK, so at 24% (and 4-6 weeks in) each of the chaprters have been like a short book in themselves, not totally interlinked to the other chapters, but obviously connected as part of the larger book.

E-book still says there are over 40 hours of reading to go.

Is it a film yet? I've got a free wekend in June.

I don't think Alan Moore would touch Hollywood with someone else's barge pole after a few disagreements (he didn't want his name in any way connected with Watchmen which must have cost him a LOT of money). However, I did partake in a Kickstarter for Show Pieces/His Heavy Heart/Jimmy's End so he does have some interest in making films. I think he likes to tailor his writing to the medium, so it does seem pointless to write a novel and then convert it to a film when he could just write a film script instead.

If you want to watch a long film, give Satantango a watch: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111341

Avatar
FluffyKittenofT... replied to hawkinspeter | 4 years ago
1 like
hawkinspeter wrote:
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

  Even Swindon has 'the magic roundabout' and 'the european space agency'.  Now Peterborough is, for me, 'the town where they banned cycling'.  (That just leaves Northhampton as 'the town that I know nothing about at all'.)

Northhampton is the birth-place of Alan Moore (one of my favourite authors). Now you know something.

 

OK, now it has at least one notable characteristic.  Does he still live there, though?  If not, it's a pretty weak one, compared to the likes of Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, etc and the long list of things they bring to mind.  I still think some towns are just more anonymous/generic than others.

(Also, seems I was mistaken about Swindon - it has the UK space agency, not ESA...the recursive roundabout is impressively terrifying from a cyclist-point-of-view though).

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 4 years ago
1 like
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:
hawkinspeter wrote:
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

  Even Swindon has 'the magic roundabout' and 'the european space agency'.  Now Peterborough is, for me, 'the town where they banned cycling'.  (That just leaves Northhampton as 'the town that I know nothing about at all'.)

Northhampton is the birth-place of Alan Moore (one of my favourite authors). Now you know something.

 

OK, now it has at least one notable characteristic.  Does he still live there, though?  If not, it's a pretty weak one, compared to the likes of Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, etc and the long list of things they bring to mind.  I still think some towns are just more anonymous/generic than others.

(Also, seems I was mistaken about Swindon - it has the UK space agency, not ESA...the recursive roundabout is impressively terrifying from a cyclist-point-of-view though).

He doesn't like to be bothered by fans (ever since one interrupted him in a bathroom stall), but in a sense, he is still living in Northampton and has always lived there and always will.

 

Avatar
janusz0 replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 4 years ago
1 like
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Anyway, I've succesfully boycotted Peterborough my entire life, and will endevour to continue to do so.  I better look up where it is in case I go there by accident, though.

 

Occurs to me it's one of a tiny  number of UK cities or towns that I've heard of, yet couldn't place on a map, and where nothing at all comes to mind when I hear of them.  Almost all UK towns have some strong cultural (especially musical) or historical or political associations.

Peterborough is a bit of an armpit, it used to have a few redeeming features when I worked near there. There were some good shops* selling exotic fruits and vegetables, a run down sculpture park and the Council seemed rather proud of the Green Wheel: a network of cycle routes like the spokes and rim of a wheel. However, the paths were neglected and the ones I used for my commute were unlit at night, which made meeting lightless BSOs challenging. I never saw another "real" cyclist on these paths. It's most attractive feature is probably the London to Edinburgh main line (which runs past an abandoned maglev train).
*Not in the faded shopping precinct.

Avatar
tarquin_foxglove | 4 years ago
1 like

IANAL

IIRC the legislation that allowed councils to introduce PSPOs, made it a criminal offence to breach them but also allowed the payment of a fine to avoid prosecution.

So if you cycle through P'boro & then refuse to give your details to the security guard, as you've committed a crime they could detain you until the Police arrive (at which point I guess you forfeit the right to pay a fine), or you hand over your details & pay the fine.

However I'm sure the legislation says the PSPO should allow an opportunity to remedy the breach without incurring the fine, eg get off your bike & push, or disperse if it is against congragating in groups. It seems harsh that you comply with the order & still get fined.

Avatar
John Smith replied to tarquin_foxglove | 4 years ago
2 likes
tarquin_foxglove wrote:

IANAL

IIRC the legislation that allowed councils to introduce PSPOs, made it a criminal offence to breach them but also allowed the payment of a fine to avoid prosecution.

So if you cycle through P'boro & then refuse to give your details to the security guard, as you've committed a crime they could detain you until the Police arrive (at which point I guess you forfeit the right to pay a fine), or you hand over your details & pay the fine.

No, breaching a PSPO is a criminal offence, with a fine of up to £1000. The cycling is the offence. However it is not a serious enough offence to enact a “citizens arrest”, which is the common law practice security guards, door staff and the like use on to hold shoplifters and people committing other crimes. Someone holding you for breach of a PSPO would be commuting a far worse offence than the breach. Most PSPOs are used for comes where it is hard to get away. Public drinking, dog fouling and so on. Walk off and they can follow you and call the police. Drive off and they will hand your reg number to the police. Cycle off? If they are lucky an officer will be close by. If not then the don’t stand much chance of catching you, of that is what you wanted to do. Personally I hope to never be in that situation as I am very careful to obey the law, partly because it could have a serious impact on my employment.

Avatar
ktache | 4 years ago
6 likes

It's not a law though is it?  It's a Public Spaces Protection Order.  There is a difference.

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bigbiker101 | 4 years ago
0 likes

If a cyclist breaks the law and is caught they should be issued with the relevant punishment as applicable by the law,  I have no problem whatsoever with this, also I don't care if people are being incentivised to do so, we are breaking the law, commit the crime accept the punishment, and this argument that drivers get away with all types of stuff as a justification of breaking the law is frankly ridiculous, justifying an act because somebody else gets away with it is just nonsense, drivers, thieves, cyclists… makes no difference who you are, break the law and just accept the punishment, don’t break the law and you have nothing to worry about, I had a conversation with a friend who got 3 points for doing 84 on a motorway at night, his view was the motorway was empty and therefore it should be OK, Ah so you want to make your own laws now… well lets all do that shall we, lets see what chaos that brings.

Avatar
FluffyKittenofT... replied to bigbiker101 | 4 years ago
2 likes
bigbiker101 wrote:

Ah so you want to make your own laws now… well lets all do that shall we, lets see what chaos that brings.

 

But that's partly how it already is.  Have you not noticed?

 

In particular the police 'make their own laws' on a routine basis, when they decide which ones they will enforce.  See in particular the laws on speeding. 

 

In what world are all laws obeyed by everyone at all times?

 

Plus the argument in anycase is over whether this 'law' is (a) just (b) sensible and (c) even legal.

Avatar
hawkinspeter | 4 years ago
7 likes

I still think that the use of private enforcement officers isn't the real issue, it's the PSPO that is used to criminalise all cyclists in that area rather than antisocial behaviour. They're basically stating that all cycling is an antisocial activity which it clearly is not.

By all means have PSPOs for spitting, littering, maybe even pulling wheelies, but not to ban all cyclists.

Avatar
Legs_Eleven_Wor... replied to hawkinspeter | 4 years ago
4 likes
hawkinspeter wrote:

I still think that the use of private enforcement officers isn't the real issue, it's the PSPO that is used to criminalise all cyclists in that area rather than antisocial behaviour. They're basically stating that all cycling is an antisocial activity which it clearly is not. By all means have PSPOs for spitting, littering, maybe even pulling wheelies, but not to ban all cyclists.

That would not be any use, since it is the aim of the Conservative government to make cycling as uncomfortable and as inconvenient as possible.  

Every person forced off his or her bike, is one person more who's buying petrol.  More petrol means richer oil companies, and richer oil companies mean more donations to the Conservative Party.   More donations to the Conservative Party mean more chance of obtaining (or conserving) power, and more chance of obtaining (or conserving) power mean more cuts to corporation tax.  And more cuts to corporation tax means richer oil companies ........ 

And so it goes.  

Avatar
Awavey replied to hawkinspeter | 4 years ago
2 likes
hawkinspeter wrote:

I still think that the use of private enforcement officers isn't the real issue, it's the PSPO that is used to criminalise all cyclists in that area rather than antisocial behaviour. They're basically stating that all cycling is an antisocial activity which it clearly is not. By all means have PSPOs for spitting, littering, maybe even pulling wheelies, but not to ban all cyclists.

but they mostly seem to apply them to areas where cycling could be considered an antisocial activity where it comes into conflict with other people, like pedestrianised shopping areas, most people would understand you need to be slower and account for people wandering around and ride safely, but alot thesedays dont and so how do you seperate the nice cyclists from the d***head cyclists, put a PSPO in, hope the wardens use their discretion ?

it annoys me intently around where I live alot of adults use the pavements to ride on, not because they ride on the pavements as such, though the roads arent particularly dangerous at all so why they should be on the pavement at all I dont know, but the manner they ride is at the same speed as theyd be on the road, and your choice as a pedestrian when you encounter them in alot of cases is get out of their way or get hit, so cycling absolutely can be anti social

Avatar
mikeymustard replied to hawkinspeter | 4 years ago
3 likes
hawkinspeter wrote:

I still think that the use of private enforcement officers isn't the real issue, it's the PSPO that is used to criminalise all cyclists in that area rather than antisocial behaviour. They're basically stating that all cycling is an antisocial activity which it clearly is not. By all means have PSPOs for spitting, littering, maybe even pulling wheelies, but not to ban all cyclists.

I think private enforcement officers (and the rest of the "land and expand" subcontractors) is very much the issue. I say: follow the money! Behind every contract put out to tender, there's a network of backhanders, promises of consultancies and oh so similar immoral tricks to fleece councils of (I can't be too emphatic on this) OUR money. We just happen to be the latest cash cows to come along.

And I don't think I have enough energy to bemoan the fact that the next step will be that these private enforcement officers will have the sort of powers that'll enable them to arrest you for non-compliance

Avatar
Legs_Eleven_Wor... replied to mikeymustard | 4 years ago
0 likes
mikeymustard wrote:

And I don't think I have enough energy to bemoan the fact that the next step will be that these private enforcement officers will have the sort of powers that'll enable them to arrest you for non-compliance

When that happens, you have the moral right to resist, with force if necessary.  

Avatar
John Smith replied to mikeymustard | 4 years ago
4 likes
mikeymustard wrote:
hawkinspeter wrote:

I still think that the use of private enforcement officers isn't the real issue, it's the PSPO that is used to criminalise all cyclists in that area rather than antisocial behaviour. They're basically stating that all cycling is an antisocial activity which it clearly is not. By all means have PSPOs for spitting, littering, maybe even pulling wheelies, but not to ban all cyclists.

I think private enforcement officers (and the rest of the "land and expand" subcontractors) is very much the issue. I say: follow the money! Behind every contract put out to tender, there's a network of backhanders, promises of consultancies and oh so similar immoral tricks to fleece councils of (I can't be too emphatic on this) OUR money. We just happen to be the latest cash cows to come along.

And I don't think I have enough energy to bemoan the fact that the next step will be that these private enforcement officers will have the sort of powers that'll enable them to arrest you for non-compliance

 

They won’t, ever. There is no way the Home Office or the ACPO will let anyone other than police officers arrest anyone, beyond what is currently allowed. Your talking about giving them powers that PCSOs don’t have. That is never going to happen. They just use the fact that most people don’t know this, same as most security guards, although at least security guards are dealing with situations where they can use the legal rights everyone has, unlike these enforcement officers. 

 

However, what I would say, is that if you are going to try riding off, be polite and be ready for a police officer to walk round the corner and have a good excuse for them. Don’t risk being rude and being arrested for a public order offence or annoying the police. 

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brooksby | 4 years ago
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A Local Government Association spokesman said: "PSPOs are one of a number of ways councils can tackle anti-social behaviour problem." ... But then admitted that they really can't be bothered with trying out any of the alternatives, because the hammer/nut approach and subcontracting enforcement to a private company third party is easier .

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ktache | 4 years ago
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Wow, many thanks for all of that.

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Rick_Rude | 4 years ago
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I don't think they can physically detain you and apparently they also can't enter private properties which would include shops. I'm sure i read someone advising this route if they follow you.

Alternatively smash them in the face and if caught just say " it was a prank, bro!"

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maviczap replied to Rick_Rude | 4 years ago
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Rick_Rude wrote:

I don't think they can physically detain you and apparently they also can't enter private properties which would include shops. I'm sure i read someone advising this route if they follow you. Alternatively smash them in the face and if caught just say " it was a prank, bro!"

Agree, no powers of arrest or detention and if they did try it on then you could sue for assault?

Doubt they'll have powers to force you to prove your identity either

I'd give them my name and address as follows

Ivor Biggun

47 Letsby Ave

 

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