Near Miss of the Day 235: A cyclist undertakes at speed

matthewn5 wrote:

That happened to me a few months ago. Cycling along a road towards four way junction, cyclist in front moves across to right, I'm going straight ahead so overtake on the left, and the fecker decides to turn left, without a hand signal! Very lucky not to collide with him at speed.

Best not to swing out right to give yourself a bigger radius, just slow and turn left, because moving to the right - as in this video - is very ambiguous.

Or you could try not undertaking, especially at a junction. There is a good reason why the Highway Code tells you you must not do either. I’m sorry but if you had crashed in that situation it would have been your fault.

John Smith wrote:

matthewn5 wrote:

That happened to me a few months ago. Cycling along a road towards four way junction, cyclist in front moves across to right, I'm going straight ahead so overtake on the left, and the fecker decides to turn left, without a hand signal! Very lucky not to collide with him at speed.

Best not to swing out right to give yourself a bigger radius, just slow and turn left, because moving to the right - as in this video - is very ambiguous.

Or you could try not undertaking, especially at a junction. There is a good reason why the Highway Code tells you you must not do either. I’m sorry but if you had crashed in that situation it would have been your fault.

Quite right, but I'd assumed from road positioning that the other guy was turning right, because he swung right. Lesson for me, and I've been cycling 53 years.

matthewn5 wrote:

That happened to me a few months ago. Cycling along a road towards four way junction, cyclist in front moves across to right, I'm going straight ahead so overtake on the left, and the fecker decides to turn left, without a hand signal! Very lucky not to collide with him at speed.

Best not to swing out right to give yourself a bigger radius, just slow and turn left, because moving to the right - as in this video - is very ambiguous.

It's worth bearing in mind that a swing to the right before a left turn actually sets you up better to make the corner. In motorcycling, countersteering is something many experienced riders will be able to explain. Basically, you push the bars the 'wrong' way to make the bike lean into the curve. Countersteering is something an experienced car driver will do too. There's no reason why an experience cyclist who understands the laws of motion wouldn't do this too. The rider overtaking on the inside is simply stupid.

OldRidgeback wrote:

It's worth bearing in mind that a swing to the right before a left turn actually sets you up better to make the corner. In motorcycling, countersteering is something many experienced riders will be able to explain. Basically, you push the bars the 'wrong' way to make the bike lean into the curve. Countersteering is something an experienced car driver will do too. There's no reason why an experience cyclist who understands the laws of motion wouldn't do this too. The rider overtaking on the inside is simply stupid.

Sorry this is wrong. Moving to the right, gives you a more open corner to take - the racing line! The counter-steering you are talking about for motorcycles - and bicycles, is because gyroscopic progression causes the wheel to "fall down" in the direction you want it to. If you tried to steer the handlebars in the same way as you would when going slowly, say like you were on a bike with stabilisers, you will fall off! Counter-steering in a car is only used if you've got to the point that the slip angle at the rear exceeds the slip angle requried to take the corner - opposite lock, drifting, Scandinavian flick, etc.

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Seemed as if that cyclist was moving faster than his brain could make a decision about how to react to the headcam guy preparing to turn (so ended up with the sub-optimal choice of 'whizz past on the inside').  He either needs to cycle slower or learn to think faster.

that seems correct to me. He has come down the hill from the top of the park as fast as gravity, his legs and his gears will allow. It's an exceptionally dangerous place to do that.

HawkinsPeter wrote:

Why not just overtake on the outside?

Depends where the camera is situated left/right of rider, but as the rider went through the gates it looked to me like there was more room on the left, imperfect road positioning but nothing more, certainly doesn't invite a high speed undertake.

I might pass on the inside if there is a bigger gap, but anything unconventional like that still requires me to be 100% sure that I have enough margin and fallback plans to avoid anything unwanted happening.

I think the question should be why not overtake at a more sensible speed or exercise caution. I think an experienced and sensible rider could see it wasn't a smart place to pass (gates, pedestrians, slow rider, shoulder check).

We all know there are plenty of idiots on the road. I'm sure some of them ride bikes AND drive cars. At least this overtake wasn't highly likely to end in death or serious injury.

ChrisB200SX wrote:

HawkinsPeter wrote:

Why not just overtake on the outside?

Depends where the camera is situated left/right of rider, but as the rider went through the gates it looked to me like there was more room on the left, imperfect road positioning but nothing more, certainly doesn't invite a high speed undertake.

I might pass on the inside if there is a bigger gap, but anything unconventional like that still requires me to be 100% sure that I have enough margin and fallback plans to avoid anything unwanted happening.

I think the question should be why not overtake at a more sensible speed or exercise caution. I think an experienced and sensible rider could see it wasn't a smart place to pass (gates, pedestrians, slow rider, shoulder check).

We all know there are plenty of idiots on the road. I'm sure some of them ride bikes AND drive cars. At least this overtake wasn't highly likely to end in death or serious injury.

That makes sense.

I wouldn't trust undertaking a cyclist as most wouldn't bother checking their inside before turning left (I rarely do unless there's a big gap).