Berkshire cyclist died after pedestrian stepped out in front of him, finds inquest

burtthebike wrote:

So a pedestrian who had been drinking walks out into the road and kills a cyclist who was riding perfectly legally, but no media hysteria?

if only one of them had a skull tattoo while the other had a functioning reproductive system

Anti-cylist cops are a menance to cyclists and need eradicating, as do dangerous drivers and pedestrians.

Applecart wrote:

...am a little more aware of my aural invisibility. I tend to freewheel a bit around people if they look uncertain to give warning from the clicking.

New laws demand cyclists must have spokey-doke's, a playing card flicking on the wheels, or Hope free-hubs. [/sarcasm]

A little off-topic but there's a shared use trail that has some mtb trails off it near me, and passing peds must put some effort into not hearing my aggressive pawl buzz, some even manage to ignore the classic English polite-yet-awkward "Ahem.. ...Excuse me,... ..please(?) Coming past on the right"

ROOTminus1 wrote:

Applecart wrote:

...am a little more aware of my aural invisibility. I tend to freewheel a bit around people if they look uncertain to give warning from the clicking.

New laws demand cyclists must have spokey-doke's, a playing card flicking on the wheels, or Hope free-hubs. [/sarcasm]

A little off-topic but there's a shared use trail that has some mtb trails off it near me, and passing peds must put some effort into not hearing my aggressive pawl buzz, some even manage to ignore the classic English polite-yet-awkward "Ahem.. ...Excuse me,... ..please(?) Coming past on the right"

Cool. I miss my childhood spokey-dokes, but too much a conformist to addorn my road bike with them. Butf the law demands ...  

ROOTminus1 wrote:

Applecart wrote:

...am a little more aware of my aural invisibility. I tend to freewheel a bit around people if they look uncertain to give warning from the clicking.

New laws demand cyclists must have spokey-doke's, a playing card flicking on the wheels, or Hope free-hubs. [/sarcasm]

A little off-topic but there's a shared use trail that has some mtb trails off it near me, and passing peds must put some effort into not hearing my aggressive pawl buzz, some even manage to ignore the classic English polite-yet-awkward "Ahem.. ...Excuse me,... ..please(?) Coming past on the right"

For those situations I'd like some sort of loudspeaker/bell-subsitute that plays a very loud quick burst of 'The Flight of the Valkyries', or maybe the chorus of Queen's 'Bicycle Race'.

ROOTminus1 wrote:

Applecart wrote:

...am a little more aware of my aural invisibility. I tend to freewheel a bit around people if they look uncertain to give warning from the clicking.

New laws demand cyclists must have spokey-doke's, a playing card flicking on the wheels, or Hope free-hubs. [/sarcasm]

A little off-topic but there's a shared use trail that has some mtb trails off it near me, and passing peds must put some effort into not hearing my aggressive pawl buzz, some even manage to ignore the classic English polite-yet-awkward "Ahem.. ...Excuse me,... ..please(?) Coming past on the right"

well some of them might be deaf, like me, so give that some thought, please.

ConcordeCX wrote:

A little off-topic but there's a shared use trail that has some mtb trails off it near me, and passing peds must put some effort into not hearing my aggressive pawl buzz, some even manage to ignore the classic English polite-yet-awkward "Ahem.. ...Excuse me,... ..please(?) Coming past on the right"

well some of them might be deaf, like me, so give that some thought, please.

[/quote]

Indeed, but if you are in fact deaf, you will adapt your behaviour to suit, and would look behind you before walking out into the road.  Because you wouldn't hear a car either.

burtthebike wrote:

ConcordeCX wrote:

A little off-topic but there's a shared use trail that has some mtb trails off it near me, and passing peds must put some effort into not hearing my aggressive pawl buzz, some even manage to ignore the classic English polite-yet-awkward "Ahem.. ...Excuse me,... ..please(?) Coming past on the right"

well some of them might be deaf, like me, so give that some thought, please.

Indeed, but if you are in fact deaf, you will adapt your behaviour to suit, and would look behind you before walking out into the road.  Because you wouldn't hear a car either.

[/quote]

yes, I am in fact deaf, and yes, I do look when I step into the road, but that's not the situation that the person quoted above is describing. He is describing approaching people from behind.

Quote:

ConcordeCX wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

ConcordeCX wrote:

A little off-topic but there's a shared use trail that has some mtb trails off it near me, and passing peds must put some effort into not hearing my aggressive pawl buzz, some even manage to ignore the classic English polite-yet-awkward "Ahem.. ...Excuse me,... ..please(?) Coming past on the right"

well some of them might be deaf, like me, so give that some thought, please.

Indeed, but if you are in fact deaf, you will adapt your behaviour to suit, and would look behind you before walking out into the road.  Because you wouldn't hear a car either.

yes, I am in fact deaf, and yes, I do look when I step into the road, but that's not the situation that the person quoted above is describing. He is describing approaching people from behind.

[/quote]

Can I ask, then, what would be your recommended course of action in that situation? They can't hear the cyclist's bell or calls.  Presumably the cyclist can't  just poke them.  But the cyclist can't get past, and doesn't want to just follow them at countryside-walking pace until they choose to stop or look around...? Genuinely interested, etiquette minded in case I ever encounter that circumstance.

brooksby wrote:

Quote:

ConcordeCX wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

ConcordeCX wrote:

A little off-topic but there's a shared use trail that has some mtb trails off it near me, and passing peds must put some effort into not hearing my aggressive pawl buzz, some even manage to ignore the classic English polite-yet-awkward "Ahem.. ...Excuse me,... ..please(?) Coming past on the right"

well some of them might be deaf, like me, so give that some thought, please.

Indeed, but if you are in fact deaf, you will adapt your behaviour to suit, and would look behind you before walking out into the road.  Because you wouldn't hear a car either.

yes, I am in fact deaf, and yes, I do look when I step into the road, but that's not the situation that the person quoted above is describing. He is describing approaching people from behind.

Can I ask, then, what would be your recommended course of action in that situation? They can't hear the cyclist's bell or calls.  Presumably the cyclist can't  just poke them.  But the cyclist can't get past, and doesn't want to just follow them at countryside-walking pace until they choose to stop or look around...? Genuinely interested, etiquette minded in case I ever encounter that circumstance.

[/quote]

what would you like a cyclist to do if for some reason you hadn't heard them?

When I'm cycling in that sort of situation I wait until I can pass without being obnoxious about it, or until the person or people realise I'm there.

It's quite a common situation where I live, and there are shared paths and a lot of tourists. You have to be patient. It's no different to expecting a motorist to wait until they can pass a cyclist safely.

brooksby wrote:

Quote:

ConcordeCX wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

ConcordeCX wrote:

A little off-topic but there's a shared use trail that has some mtb trails off it near me, and passing peds must put some effort into not hearing my aggressive pawl buzz, some even manage to ignore the classic English polite-yet-awkward "Ahem.. ...Excuse me,... ..please(?) Coming past on the right"

well some of them might be deaf, like me, so give that some thought, please.

Indeed, but if you are in fact deaf, you will adapt your behaviour to suit, and would look behind you before walking out into the road.  Because you wouldn't hear a car either.

yes, I am in fact deaf, and yes, I do look when I step into the road, but that's not the situation that the person quoted above is describing. He is describing approaching people from behind.

Can I ask, then, what would be your recommended course of action in that situation? They can't hear the cyclist's bell or calls.  Presumably the cyclist can't  just poke them.  But the cyclist can't get past, and doesn't want to just follow them at countryside-walking pace until they choose to stop or look around...? Genuinely interested, etiquette minded in case I ever encounter that circumstance.

[/quote]

Well yes, actually yes you do. In the same way as we expect motorists to slow down, give us room and only overtake when safe.

There is no right for a cyclist, car driver or any road user to push past or bully a slower road user. Full stop. In the circumstances of a pedestrian wandering in the road without apparently being aware of what is going on around them, my alarm bells would be ringing.

Mungecrundle wrote:

brooksby wrote:

Can I ask, then, what would be your recommended course of action in that situation? They can't hear the cyclist's bell or calls.  Presumably the cyclist can't  just poke them.  But the cyclist can't get past, and doesn't want to just follow them at countryside-walking pace until they choose to stop or look around...? Genuinely interested, etiquette minded in case I ever encounter that circumstance.

Well yes, actually yes you do. In the same way as we expect motorists to slow down, give us room and only overtake when safe. There is no right for a cyclist, car driver or any road user to push past or bully a slower road user. Full stop. In the circumstances of a pedestrian wandering in the road without apparently being aware of what is going on around them, my alarm bells would be ringing.

OK, thanks. I wasn't seeking carte blanche to bully anyone, btw  

I'd hope that if they were using a shared use path then they'd be looking around a lot more frequently, though, so as to be considerate? (Like I do if I'm walking a shared-use path, or cycling a single track road)

(I think I'm going to stop digging myself this particular hole, now... )

LastBoyScout wrote:

I have to say I am sceptical of the quoted 24mph speed at that junction - it seems rather high for normal circumstances.

The junction is at the top of a hill after a bit of a drag up whichever way you approach it on Wokingham Road. Assuming heading West, that's potentially (I don't know his full route that evening) over a mile of up hill. It's certainly possible to ride up there at over 20mph, but when you leave the end of the cycle lane, you'd be pretty unlikely to get across 2 lanes of traffic (3, if you count the left turn lane and you will get drivers pass you and then dive into that) and turn right while carrying that sort of speed through the junction.

That assumes you get lucky with a green light when you need it.

The only way I could see anyone going through there at 24mph would be when sprinting to get through on amber - but surely that sort of effort would have been apparent in the CCTV?

Another scenario might be that he was attempting to chase someone who cut him up coming out of the bike lane.

Sadly, we'll never know the exact circumstances.

I did notice that the floral tributes have now gone from the lamp post.

Agreed, I'm pretty quick on Wokingham road but 24mph seems very optimistic (albeit totally irrelevant!). It's fairly flat and only gently uphill, but it is a long hill, and it's unlikely he'd have come from from anywhere other than a lot further down the same road towards Wokingham.

For context:

https://www.strava.com/segments/12655217

brooksby wrote:

So will the pedestrian be charged with manslaughter?

Nope, Wanton and Furious walking :-o 

HLaB wrote:

brooksby wrote:

So will the pedestrian be charged with manslaughter?

Nope, Wanton and Furious walking :-o 

Seeing as they'd been in the pub, did the ped get breathalysed?