Campagnolo, one of the most famous names in Italian cycling, could be facing strike action after it revealed plans to make almost one in five of the employees at its Vicenza factory redundant.
The company says the redundancies are necessary due to tougher competition squeezing its margins and causing it to lose market share, but unions claim production will shift to Romania, diluting the firm’s ‘Made In Italy’ cachet.
In a statement issued on Wednesday, the business said the Vicenza facility (which road.cc visited in 2011) is becoming increasingly uncompetitive and the company could no longer rely on its brand strength or high-performance products alone.
The firm, founded in 1933 by Tullio Campagnolo and still family-owned, plans to focus on innovation and new product development in Vicenza, with production shifting elsewhere. Its statement made no specific reference to Romania.
But in a joint statement, the trade unions FIM-CISL and FIOM-CGIL said that the company had confirmed in a meeting last week that it planned undertake a heavy restructuring, including relocating production to the eastern European country, reports Il Gazzettino.
Campagnolo already has two factories there, with a November 2011 Bicycle Retailer article noting that production, including more labour-intensive processes, has been gradually switched to that country, where labour costs are three and a half times less costly than in Italy and in line with those in Taiwan.
That meant Campagnolo could keep production in the European Union without having to outsource to the Far East, which also has advantages for protecting its intellectual property against counterfeiting or copying.
But union leaders have objected to the company’s new restructuring plan, and the relocation of production in particular, condemnng it as a “shortcut that leads nowhere.”
They say it should instead invest in making the Vicenza facilities more efficient and competitive to meet “the new challenges of the global market.”
“Moreover," they addeed, we are talking about a firm with positive financial statements and a prestigious ‘Made In Italy’ brand that makes a distinction of its quality in both the professional and amateur sports markets.
“We wouldn’t want it to become, in more or less the short term, substantially ‘Made in Romania’,” they added.
While Campagnolo continues to be respected for its technical innovation and the build quality and performance of its products, in recent years the cycling components market has become a much more competitive place.
Besides rival Shimano, SRAM has become a major player, particularly in the original equipment market for new bikes, from which Campagnolo has been all but ousted.
The Italian company has also seen its position as the once dominant player in the pro peloton significantly eroded in recent years with Shimano now the dominant player by number of teams. For the 2015 season three WorldTour teams out of 17 will line up using their groupset – Europcar who lost WorldTour status just before the season began will also continue to ride Campagnolo. Shimano account for 13 of the rest, while SRAM's sole representative amongst road cycling's elite teams for 2015 is AG2R.
That’s reflected by the fact that in the three decades to 1998, cyclists including Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault and Miguel Indurain won a combined 25 editions of the Tour de France riding Campagnolo-equipped bikes.
By contrast, only two of the 16 editions of the race since then have gone to riders using Campagnolo – Oscar Pereiro in 2006, and Vincenzo Nibali last year; not good when victory in cycling’s biggest race can be used by your rivals in their marketing materials.
While the performance of its 11-speed mechanical groupsets is much admired, Campagnolo’s EPS electronic groupset has probably not been the hit it hoped it would be, partly because Shimano’s Di2 has proved so resolutely dependable and the Japanese company seems set on a process of continuous innovation coupled with competitive pricing.
Quietly over the past decade Shimano has replaced Campagnolo as the benchmark against which other company's groupsets and components are measured against.
The Italians have also been late to the party when it comes to road disc brakes – their offering should launch later this year, by then both Shimano and SRAM will have had many years head start – even allowing for last year's calamitous hydraulic brake recall by the latter.
Translation of Campagnolo statement dated 27 January 2015
The Campagnolo business, manufacturer of high-end components for racing bicycles, has decided to open a redundancy procedure for 68 of the 399 staff at the production site in Vicenza.
This decision results from necessity to put in place a business plan presented to the trades unions and staff organisations, necessary to ensure the continued production at that site, which also houses group functions and activities related to new products and new technologies.
The business plan aims to recover market share and margin which have been eroded in recent years due to the decline in competitiveness of the manufacturing carried out at the Vicenza site.
Changed market conditions on the one hand and ever more intense competition on the other risk forcing the business out of the market, since it cannot rely alone on the strength of its brand and high performance products.
It is now necessary to regain competitiveness by restructuring the Vicenza site, giving it a mission focused on innovation and product development, on which the business has the firm intention of implementing and concentrating all necessary investment.























68 thoughts on “Campagnolo strike threat as 1 in 5 jobs cut at Vicenza HQ”
awful news, for me Campag is
awful news, for me Campag is the best gearing I have ever had. I am a firm fan but Japanese pockets are deeper ….
The strength of Campagnolo is
The strength of Campagnolo is – it is a premium heritage brand, designed & made in Italy.
I’m not sure designed in Italy, made in Romania does it any favours.
Much as I am lukewarm about
Much as I am lukewarm about the disc brake revolution, at least until through-axles become more common, Campag’s lateness to the game hasn’t done them a lot of favours.
Oh, and their new cranksets are not very pretty, are they?
I think Campy have lost the
I think Campy have lost the plot. There is only really one reason for the average cyclist to buy Campy stuff and that is the cache and the heritage. The fact that it’s supposedly made with love in Italy by people with cycling in their soul. That may be a rose tinted view but “made in Italy” holds a premium in the bike world.
So now it’s going to be made somewhere else. What makes it special in any way any more.
Like making a Lambourghini in China. Cheap enough but missing the bloody point as to why people actually buy it.
A big shame, I am just going
A big shame, I am just going over to Campag on the new bike, apart from form and function, it’s nice to have something with the “Made in Italy” tag in cycling still.
I would love to go to their factory and see what improvements they could make to improve its running costs.
It’s also a sad fact in manufacturing that companies sell their souls to make more money. Plenty of German car makers do it and people foolishly still believe they are buying a German built car.
I know people in the area and
I know people in the area and how bad news like this effects them and the wider economy. Unfortunately, Campag isn’t competitive, the companies fear is that to maintain high quality you need a cheaper work force to continue to maintain profit margins. Most other Italian brands are already manufacturing outside Italy. Campaign feels that they time is right to follow suite.
As someone looking in from
As someone looking in from the outside it’s seems to be very poor investment, R&D and management that’s the problem and not the workforce. Very sad news for the workers.
“By contrast, only two of the
“By contrast, only two of the 16 editions of the race since then have gone to riders using Campagnolo – Oscar Pereiro in 2006, and Vincenzo Nibali last year”.
Seriously? Is it all about the Tour? Two GT’s won on Campagnolo this year plus the Giro last year. That’s 50% of the GT’s in the last two years. Not to mention the 2012, 2013 World Champions finished on Campagnolo and if it’s all about the Tour – 7 of this year’s stages were won on Campagnolo.
All of my bikes are equipped with Campagnolo from Athena (two bikes) to Record EPS and Record and Super Record inbetween. Did I buy them because they were ‘Made in Italy’? Did I bugg3ry. I bought them because they hands donw outperform the Japanese fishing tackle and that other brand from America that had a shocker of a few years. I’ll continue to stick to Campagnolo regardless of where some of the components are manufactured.
Quote:I think Campy have lost
Campag lost the plot a long long time ago. They’ve been trading on heritage and brand and looks for years while Shimano have quietly gotten on with being the best and SRAM have developed an entire new line of groupsets to compete with them.
Eventually, the mind-numbing tedious bollocks of “Campag wears in, Shimano wears out” that gets trotted out by the fanboys (or fan bores more usually) has worn off, they’ve pretty much lost the OEM market, they’ve got a limited dealer network, the custom built market is simply not a sustainable option and they’re way behind the curve on technology like electronic gears and hydraulic disc brakes.
People no longer care if it’s made in Italy by someone who has a “soul” (whatever that means) and loves cycling. They want it to work. Shimano works. And you can buy it everywhere.
crazy-legs wrote:Quote:I
I’ve got low end campy and high end SRAM 11speed. They shift just as well, but campy is more reliable. Have you actually ridden Campag? There is a lot of insufferable guff, and for many it is a religion. But hey the shifting feels nice to me and I find them the most comfortable. I do find it interesting that most racers I know are much more balanced and appreciate Shimano and Campag. Seems to be the casual, sportive rider who is anti campy for no good reason… But that’s my experience.
Also… Yeah SRAM – you do remember the hydraulics recall. Sounds more like rushed to market rather than quietly working away.
You are talking b******s.
You are talking b******s. Typical of many people on here making sweeping statements not based on experience but personal basis.
Dura Ace is that good that it has a plactic cap blanking of the left hand end of the crank axle and nearly any one that rides it has a rub mark on chain set arm from contact with the inside of their shoe.
Also Campagnolo 11 speed is fully back compatiable existing wheels. Unlike Shimano who made all its customer buy new wheel to run 11 speed.
So you keep following all the other sheep.
As when someone asked Cadel which is best Shimano or Campagnolo? His reply was which ever I get free.
You are talking b******s.
You are talking b******s. Typical of many people on here making sweeping statements not based on experience but personal basis.
Dura Ace is that good that it has a plactic cap blanking of the left hand end of the crank axle and nearly any one that rides it has a rub mark on chain set arm from contact with the inside of their shoe.
Also Campagnolo 11 speed is fully back compatiable existing wheels. Unlike Shimano who made all its customer buy new wheel to run 11 speed.
So you keep following all the other sheep.
As when someone asked Cadel which is best Shimano or Campagnolo? His reply was which ever I get free.
crazy-legs wrote:Quote:I
I think you read me wrong. When I started club cycling in 1973 Campy was THE thing to have. I was 13 and I didn’t have it. I’ve never had it. By the time I could afford it I didn’t want to pay for it.
I’ve always run Shimano. My son uses both SRAM and Shimano. My point about Campy was that the only reason to buy Campy at a premium is the heritage if that’s what you like. If it’s made in Romania then one of the key reasons why people buy Campy will have gone.
perhaps a little defensive eh?
Not really in terms of
Not really in terms of products. EPS development started long before Di2 and they were the first to market with 11speed. They also pushed Everyman gear ranges like 11-28 coupled with compacts too.
Unfortunately they have focussed on the higher end low volume market where costs are higher and margins lower. Skilled manufacturing is expensive indeed when it comes to wages.
Shimano gets a consumer buy in. The newbie gets El cheapo bike that comes with sora or tiara, then gets a decent bike and will most likely go for 105/ultegra…
Campag clearly need to own their market, while ensuring that they remain competitive. The Campag model is certainly interesting. Trading on high end made in Italy tradition may not be working so well though!
The trouble is that getting
The trouble is that getting an off the shelf the bike built up with campag for a reasonable price is getting harder and harder, and let’s face it once somebody has settled on a groupset it’s very hard to get them to change specially if said groupset is more expensive. Quite honestly i’m surprised that campy haven’t relocated all production to china so they can get back into the original equipment market. I love there stuff and have always bought it. But the amount of tools needed ( thinking about there chains here) and there famous silent videos hardly endears them to a wider public .
The trouble is that getting
The trouble is that getting an off the shelf the bike built up with campag for a reasonable price is getting harder and harder, and let’s face it once somebody has settled on a groupset it’s very hard to get them to change specially if said groupset is more expensive. Quite honestly i’m surprised that campy haven’t relocated all production to china so they can get back into the original equipment market. I love there stuff and have always bought it. But the amount of tools needed ( thinking about there chains here) and there famous silent videos hardly endears them to a wider public .
Burberry, Aston-Martin,
Burberry, Aston-Martin, Morgan, Chanel, Rolex, all the big champagne brands, any Savile Row tailor, Jimmy Choo, Ferrari, McLaren and a hundred more luxury names all trade on exclusivity rather than competitive pricing.
There is a school of thought that says Campag’ should increase prices, concentrate on quality above all else and push the products further up-market. I’m sure trying to outsell Shimano is simply pissing into the wind and if they go to the wall in a few year’s time it will be the fault of the family management.
I shall light a candle for them for I love their stuff.
http://www.bicycling.com/news
http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/italian-job
This is the beginning of a move away from Italian production that will have to occur if Campagnolo are to survive. Crazy-legs gets it spot on; Campag are over-romanticised by many people and technologically in the shadow of Shimano.
crikey wrote:Campag are
Give me three examples of how Shimano are technologically ahead of Campagnolo?
iamelectron wrote:crikey
It is crap, Dura Ace is hardly miles in front of Record UNLESS you include Di2 Ant+ but not sure I need gearing information !!
iamelectron wrote:crikey
I’d love to hear this too! Last time I checked you could only downshift one cog at a time on Shimano.
This statement is rubbished
This statement is rubbished based on ill imformed personal basis. I like Campagnolo but that mean to hate Shimano or Sram. I prefer the way Campag ergo shifters work. Especially being able to change down with your hands on the centre or the bars and gear dump which is really usual in race situations.
I have never like the idea that the brake lever also work the gear shift on Shimano.
I’m not anti-Campag, I just
I’m not anti-Campag, I just don’t think they’ve made many good management decisions and now they’re backed into a bit of a corner so I’m not surprised to see cost-cutting like this.
Their options seem to be:
Offer themselves as OEM to bike brands:
Loses your “exclusivity and uniqueness” appeal in the short term but might help claw back some ground long term. As mentioned, people tend to buy into what they know. Chances are, your first bike is going to have Shimano so you upgrade with Shimano, your next bike has Shimano to maintain cross-compatibility and it goes from there.
Also, from experience of working in bike shops, the brands with Campag (usually only Bianchi although we might have had one or two others at various times) were very poor sellers.
Raise the price (again, as mentioned above)
Keeps the exclusivity part of it but when electronic rear mechs are already retailing at prices north of £500, is there really an argument to say that it would be better if it cost £600? I’d look at that and go “nope, not going to crit race on that!”
Sponsorship of more pro teams
Costs a shed load of money and is of limited use if the brand is not readily available in the shops and on OEM bikes (which it isn’t). And in reference to the comment “is it all about the Tour?” the answer is yes. To a new bike buyer, someone inspired by watching it on TV they’re going to have seen the Olympics or the Tour. That’s it.
So sadly they’re in a bit of a catch-22. A bit lost from general view – very limited presence in the peloton and on the shop floor, not in the limelight when it comes to snazzy new kit (ooh disc brakes, ooh wireless shifting) and therefore not really in the media and there reaches a point where your market of rich people buying Pinarellos doesn’t cover the cost of all that carbon and those expensive people with “soul” in Italy…
crazy-legs wrote:Sponsorship
Who won this year’s Tour and how many stages were won on Campagnolo?
When a bike brand (big or small) brings out a new top end frame how many of said frames are kitted out in Super Record and plastered all over the press?
Canyon and Rose push Campagnolo on their bikes at a more than reasonable price and now Planet X has ditched SRAM in favour of value bikes with Campagnolo.
Every time this debate rears it’s head the cut-and paste responses are out in force.
Bring on the day Rapha team up with Campagnolo – the internet will impode.
my mtb has Shimano, road
my mtb has Shimano, road Campagnolo, i would have no issue with a bike featuring either, i personally prefer campags levers, Both work and both are pretty reliable.
I know when shimano release disc brakes they’ll work, Campag again i would expect them to work, even if it means them being late to market.
Shimano might make the odd “mistake” but it will work, just not meet market expectations.
I would suggest one issue is Italy being along way from Taiwan
Sram, forget it, if you want over priced and unreliable that is where its at.
Campag do need to get on the front foot, wheel rims are narrow but the market is going wide, there is a move to discs, but they haven’t shown anything yet etc.
To my mind campag is the only
To my mind campag is the only brand to hang on your Italian bike, otherwise it’s shimano. Yes I’ve ridden both and to be honest not really a huge difference in performance but the lack of freehub comparability between camp and shim is always a put off, love my Fulkrum zeros though (shimano compatable made by campag) I suspect the equivalent Shimano wheels are as good.
I think it is important they keep going, first deralieur and all that.
As noted on another thread
As noted on another thread today, Campag users are like Zulus; they don’t like it up ’em….
1.) Index shifting.
2.) Freehubs.
3.) Dual Pivot brakes.
4.) Combined brake and shift levers.
5.) Return springs in brake levers.
6.) SPD pedals.
7.) Electronic groupsets.
8.) Mountain bike groupsets in general; Campag do not have a great track record in this instance…
9.) Road disc brakes.
Campagnolo managed the the quick release… Which has been redesigned and made better by…. Shimano.
Shimano have 477 patents on bike kit, Campag have 45…
I don’t indulge in shimano vs campag arguments as a rule because it’s like arguing about android vs apple phones; it simply isn’t important.
I do like puncturing wind bags though.
crikey wrote:As noted on
Few corrections.
2 -Sachs were first to make freehubs.
3 – Dual pivot brakes were first done by Altenburger.
4 – STI and Ergopower came out around the same time actually.
6 – Cinelli made the first clipless pedal, but look made them as we know now.
7 – Mavic had an electronic gruppo on the market in the 90’s, I’m sure Boardman road it in the TdF, and Campag had one in the pro ranks for a good while.
8 – who cares about those anyway.
9 – is just a disc brake in general, pioneered by someone else.
…and moving lots of gears
…and moving lots of gears at once?
Just look a bit further down the road… 😉
I wouldn’t feel any loyalty
I wouldn’t feel any loyalty to a brand of chainset, it doesn’t really bother me where it’s made or whose name is on it. The curly lettering is attractive and very evocative and but that doesn’t get me from A to B any quicker.
The snobby guff about ‘fishing tackle’ is reminiscent of British motorbike manufacturers and their fans laughing at Honda at the TT in the 1960s. It wasn’t long before Honda kicked Triumph’s smug, complacent arse good and proper.
Why must an Italian bike have Italian drivetrain? Plenty of Italian branded frames are already made in Taiwan, partly because they do it better.
My currant road bike has
My currant road bike has Ultegra, the new one has Chorus. Chorus feels much better and you can tell you’ve actually changed gear. Campag has some neat features and cosmetic touches that Shimano haven’t got. Ultegra has been like my XT groupset, disappointing.
Crikey? Are you being
Crikey? Are you being serious? SPDs Shimano? Er… Heard of look?
Why are patents so good eh? You do realise that shimanos aggressive pursuit of protection of IP has been a needless hindernce on innovation in the industry.
And you are bringing up mtb on a roadie forum…. Ehhhhh?
As noted, EPS was in development long before Di2. The brake release thing is just different – not better.
Oh yeah, road discs. Got to love that rear wheel locking up, maybe if benefit for bigger lads, but seriously see no need over decent rim brakes on summer bikes. And havnt TRP, Avid Et al offered disc brakes for years and years…?
There seems to be a lot of gloating here. Whatever you ride, you want to see manufacturers constantly innovating and greater competition will always drive that forward.
Mrmiik wrote:
Why are patents
A patent doesn’t always mean a product on the market as well, you can come up with a far fetched concept that a ball ache to engineer, but patent it too.
Doesn’t mean you have to make it work.
glynr36 wrote:Mrmiik
A patent doesn’t always mean a product on the market as well, you can come up with a far fetched concept that a ball ache to engineer, but patent it too.
Doesn’t mean you have to make it work.— Mrmiik
This is the problem – a smaller SME may actually make a brilliant break through and look to bring a product to market only to find Shimano’s patents block the way.
Mmmmm, hook, line you can
Mmmmm, hook, line you can guess the rest.
Look?
Did you try walking in Look cleats? Even the ill fated mountain bike style ones?
SPDs were a revelation; I was racing ‘cross with clips and straps at the time.
EPS was in development long before…. but they didn’t manage to get it to the market did they?
Road discs, like it or not (and I’m not that keen…) are a sign of a company leading in tech terms, and that company isn’t Campag.
MTB on a road forum is an important and underestimated thing; I started riding mountain bikes, then bought a Shimano equipped road bike because the tech was the same. What’s happening now with mountain bikers becoming roadies? They will opt for familiar tech…
I’m not gloating.
I’m responding to the silliness exhibited by people who think Campag is superior. It’s not. It’s just another option and one that can be bought.
Campagnolo is important for the bike industry and for the sport for reasons of history and to provide a high end, well made, beautiful product to keep Shimano on top of their game, but it’s not intrinsically better because it’s made in Italy.
crikey wrote:Mmmmm, hook,
Campagnolo tend to wait until they’re happy with the way things work before they put them to market, this is why they don’t tend to need recalls or fudging a-la Sram and Shimano.
Cleats aren’t for walking in, they’re for clipping in.
crikey wrote:Mmmmm, hook,
I believe the earlier comment was Shimano being miles ahead of Campy ‘today’, rather than past innovations?
Didn’t suggest you were gloating – sorry if it came across that way. Some other comments have been far more crass.
I’m not sure first to market is necessarily best – again compare SRAM’s nightmare of hydro brakes with the present road hydraulic market leader!
All of the big threes have their pros and cons. The best front shifting is going to be Shimano for me. The most comfortable hoods and shift feel will be Campy. I like the look of SRAM, and love the yaw on 22, but those cranksets are not the best! I have bikes with all three btw.
The tribalism within the road cycling community does make me despair. Brand loyalties, snobbery and reverse snobbery…
crikey wrote:MTB on a road
Not true I’m afraid, I’m a roadie convert and all three of my mtb’s are fully equipped with XT/XTR. My road bike is Campag.
Yes it meant that I had to buy a few new tools, but well worth it in my opinion.
To be honest, I’m really surprised at the attitude of people on here. Why the f**k are people arguing about which is best? Just make your own mind up, buy it and enjoy it. Who cares what other people think…
… Especially the knobs who think Shimano is better than Campag! 😉
Quote:2 -Sachs were first to
2: Not Campag then.
3: Not Campag then.
4: Shimano actually.
6: Not Campag then.
7: Not Campag then.
8: More important than you can imagine…
9: Not Campag then.
I wasn’t making the point
I wasn’t making the point Campag had invented all that stuff.
But that there are more than the big few, and how smaller guys who had the good engineering to get ideas off the ground have got forgotten.
Shimano hasn’t invented as much as people like to think, more that it’s evolved others ideas and tried to better them.
Quote:The tribalism within
I agree wholeheartedly, I think Campag are an important part of cycling and I would be disappointed if they become less of an influence. 🙂
Quote:Canyon and Rose push
Yes but my point was [b]shop floor[/b].
Like it or not, most bikes are sold by Halfords. That’s where your new cyclist is going, not some boutique German website.
Their new bike will therefore have Shimano or SRAM. And Campag are off to a losing battle already.
This thread isn’t supposed to be about which is “better”, in fact I’ve been trying to steer it away from that tribal “I love my Campag therefore it’s better than Shimano” shite that people keep coming up with. Although while I’m here…
You can programme Di2 to do whatever you want with whatever shifter you want.
Bottom line is that Campagnolo, Shimano and SRAM all work – certainly more than well enough for mere mortals. But that’s kind of irrelevant for Campag right now. They’ve clearly got their fans – a few of them right here on this thread – but it’s not helping them stay in business is it? And it would be a great shame for the sport if they went out of business.
crazy-legs wrote:Quote:Canyon
Yes but my point was [b]shop floor[/b].
Like it or not, most bikes are sold by Halfords. That’s where your new cyclist is going, not some boutique German website.
Their new bike will therefore have Shimano or SRAM. And Campag are off to a losing battle already.
This thread isn’t supposed to be about which is “better”, in fact I’ve been trying to steer it away from that tribal “I love my Campag therefore it’s better than Shimano” shite that people keep coming up with. Although while I’m here…
You can programme Di2 to do whatever you want with whatever shifter you want.
Bottom line is that Campagnolo, Shimano and SRAM all work – certainly more than well enough for mere mortals. But that’s kind of irrelevant for Campag right now. They’ve clearly got their fans – a few of them right here on this thread – but it’s not helping them stay in business is it? And it would be a great shame for the sport if they went out of business.
That comment about the gear dumping – of course you can on Di2…
For sure – on electronic you can programme it. Record EPS can shift more than one – so can Record mechanical. Dura-Ace Di2 can be programmed. Dura-Ace mechanical can only down shift one gear per throw. This is a statement of fact.
This was made to counter the plethora of Campy are s**te comments, no innovation – shimano is better and does more etc etc. 😐
I love this debate it’s great
I love this debate it’s great all the talk of fishing tackle etc love it
campagnolo have done the disc

campagnolo have done the disc brake thing before anyway.
and a few other unusual things
Anyway, one of the most important innovations of recent history belongs to Suntour, the slant parallelogram rear mech.
And look what happened to Suntour when they didn’t innovate….
I like Campagnolo.
I have had
I like Campagnolo.
I have had a couple of bikes that wear Campagnolo.
Some of this Campagnolo kit is still going strong after 16 years.
I am happy to pay a premium for Campagnolo.
The last bike I bought was specced with Campagnolo for less than the equivalent Shimano (see above).
I also have a bike that wears Shimano, it works, it’s relatively hardwearing but it just doesn’t feel the same.
My next bike is likely to be specced with Campagnolo unless they join this market of producing cheapness, then I’m open to offers.
My mtb has SRAM, so I’ve tried them all. 😉
I like the ‘Campag have done
I like the ‘Campag have done other stuff’ above. It is a nice counterpoint to the usual ‘Shimano make fishing reels’ quote…
I like Campag too, but not for the usual reasons; I like Campag because there needs to be a market for groupsets, and without Campag it’s not a real market. They have a well deserved reputation for quality and for adding design to well engineered kit. I admire their attempts to maintain a workforce who are well paid and who work in Western Europe; the move eastwards seems inevitable, but at least they have tried.
The main difference to me
The main difference to me between shimano and campag is I can fix my campag stuff.you can still buy cups and cone sets for 70’s hubs also the spares for ergo shifters are easy to get hold of, for me campag is use, maintain carry on using. Where as shimano is use , break throw away replace
ciderman_100 wrote:The main
You see, that’s another of the popular sayings that’s trotted out verbatim:
Oh you can fix Campag, you can’t fix Shimano.
Hm, my experiences as workshop manager in the past don’t back that up at all but don’t let facts gets in the way of some good old internet mythology.
Maybe that’s part of Campag’s problem? It can’t be cheap stocking all those widgets and grommets and thingummybobs on the off-chance that someone, somewhere will break one, pop into their friendly LBS and get them to order the whatsit for their 2007 Campag Chorus ergolever…
In spite of the above, I’m not anti-Campag, I don’t want to see them fail and I don’t think their kit is any better or worse than any other groupset. But the examples above about exclusivity – someone mentioned expensive brands like Aston Martin… That’d be the Aston Martin that’s been through bankruptcy in the past and has for years been run as a part of Ford. When you’ve got a backer like Ford, you can have a luxury offshoot as a loss-leader and make it pay by selling Mondeos and Fiestas.
Campag doesn’t have any of that.
Shimano has a huge market share but also makes fishing gear as an investment in a different market – not sure why that is used as an insult by some Campag fanbores?
SRAM owns Avid and Rockshox and has huge corporate backing.
Campag. Mmm, nope, just makes some nice bicycle groupsets and wheels.
It’s a really limited market, they’ve just lagged massively on innovation and marketing and it means they can’t run super high end gear as a loss-leader while pulling the cash in from other parts of the business – because there are no other parts.
Campag looks the
Campag looks the prettiest.
Lock the thread.
Some Fella wrote:Campag looks
With you on that one. I’ve always been a Campag fan even though it’s blindingly obvious that other components work just as well. But nothing looks as beautiful as Campagnolo so that is the differentiating factor for me.
Shallow? Absolutely, and proud of it 😀
If Campag go to the wall it will be a sad, sad day in the cycling world, no matter where it ends up being made.
Wonder if Campag could
Wonder if Campag could improve their efficiency in their distribution side, and find cost savings there?
If you look at the UK, they have 5 different distributors, as well as a sales agent office. This is not uncommon in other territories.
Seems strange, compared to Madison with Shimano, or Fisher with SRAM
Margins are also terrible on Campag for retailers, which does not help shop promote the brand.
I like campagnolo, I like the
I like campagnolo, I like the history, I like the way it shifts, I like the quality, i like the durability of most parts, I like the ergo levers, I like shiny alloy, I like beautiful looking chainsets, i like the fact its not shimano. I have nothing against shimano like I have nothing against a honda, but I’m not going to go out of my way to use it, tried it, just not for me.
Anyone bought the new Campag
Anyone bought the new Campag 11 speed chain tool?
http://www.totalcycling.com/en/Campagnolo-UT-CN300-Ultralink-11-Speed-Chain-Tool/m-18990.aspx?gclid=CKntneGdvMMCFczMtAodxH0AWg&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=UnitedKingdom
Requires real dedication…
crikey wrote:Anyone bought
Nope, I use KMC.
crikey wrote:Anyone bought
Shimano also sell an 11speed chain tool at £110…
Shimano have ran out of 10
Shimano have ran out of 10 speed di2 parts, including the rear derailleur. They come with the Japanese culture of disposability and aren’t even interested in their own heritage.
Campag have field service, old and new parts.
No point in saying Campag have lost the OEM market – as they never had any real penetration here as they have always been too expensive.
Shimano works, but doesn’t really reward any fettling, and they do need some one to keep them honest.
Quote:They come with the
Sorry, but this kind of cheap throwaway comment is the kind of thing that some Campag users resort to and it reflects very badly on them.
Since when does Japan have any kind of culture of disposability?
Since when is Shimano not interested in their own heritage?
Ooh look, a Shimano museum…
http://www.headsetpress.co.uk/feature/shimano-bicycle-museum/
Campagnolo? Er, some kind of virtual museum/website to publicise an anniversary groupset…
1921: Shozaburo Shimano establishes Shimano Iron Works and begins production of the original Shimano freewheel.
1930: Campagnolo patents the quick-release hub
Windbags.
Quote:Shimano have ran out of
Yes, that would be because they’re POPULAR and have sold many hundreds of thousands of units worldwide.
And you can programme 11sp Di2 to work on 10sp so if you trash a 10sp rear mech and don’t want to upgrade your entire groupset, you just buy an 11sp rear mech, re-programme it to 10sp mode and carry on.
It doesn’t really matter if
It doesn’t really matter if Campagnolo is making the absolute best parts or not. They’ve clearly made a series of bad business decisions and have managed themselves into a bind. You can stick to design and tradition all you want but if you can’t build and sell product profitably, keep up with the market, and grow year over year, you’re in trouble. All the Italian soul in the world doesn’t excuse you from having to run a smart business. Increasingly, they’re becoming quite simply irrelevant. It wouldn’t be surprising if Campagnolo faced a takeover scenario within the next 10 years. The market is too competitive and changing too quickly, and the Italians too stuck in their ways, for a company that is falling behind to keep standing. Which is a shame because the parts are beautiful.
I don’t care where it’s made,
I don’t care where it’s made, I’ll still buy it and use it as long as it works and looks nice.
Whilst I have 105 on my turbo bike and have had Ultegra in the past (perfectly fine just functional and ugly) I had Dura ace once, after the cassette exploded and the left shifter ratchet gave up that was all the experience I needed to finally give up buying Shimano for ever.
Sram on the other hand I have had only positive experiences with other than I don’t really like double tap. I’m sure I could get used to it though and that’s where I’d head if Campag went to the wall.
However, Campagnolo will survive and I’ll keep buying it. If it does die I have enough of a stockpile of parts to see me through the apocalypse. I keep picking up spares, problem is it simply doesn’t break and I’m a sucker for the shiny.
Shimano is popular for sure. But popular doesn’t mean good, people still buy Vauxhalls and Take That albums.
Anyway, isn’t some Sportful and Castelli made in Romania? They seem to still be doing ok for an ‘Italian’ brand.
Nobody seems to mind that
Nobody seems to mind that Shimano is made in Malaysia, why should they mind if Campagnolo is made in Romania?
drmatthewhardy wrote:Nobody
Spot on. For me, it’s the design (aesthetics and ergonomics) that mean more than anything.
the market needs all three to
the market needs all three to keep eachother on their toes, thats the truth of it. altho i do i like dropping out of shape middle aged posers riding Super Record though i must say. spend more time looking at their bike than riding them
gaz_9 wrote: i do i like
That says more about you than it does them.
Sad to see the slow death of
Sad to see the slow death of Italian manufacturing, but the rest of their cycle industry has been quick to adopt the offshore model and Campag can only resist the economic reality for so long. As recently as the 1980s c.25% of the workforce in Vicenza were classified as “artisans”, with a tradition of metal working (silversmithing) that goes back to the middle ages, and this has long been reflected in Campag’s craft based approach to finishing and presenting their goods (have a look for the Bora video on YouTube). It’s happening all over Italy, for example most of the “Murano” glass sold in Venice is manufactured in China – you can still get the real stuff, but it’s too expensive for most consumers. At least Italy can fall back on tourism to help pay its way in the world (though sadly while it was difficult to find a bad meal there 30 years ago, that is no longer the case). All very, very depressing.
It’s most likely not that the
It’s most likely not that the workers get such high wages. Instead, it’s probably the high taxes and red tape that most if not all Italian businesses face. The country is struggling through the economic crisis, and so are its people – except for the happy few obviously. Sad to hear the news. I love Campagnolo. Used Shimano before and still do on commuter bike. It works, but that’s it. Campy makes me happy. It looks better to me and I love the ability to shift several cogs with one movement. And to me it’s a way to connect with and support Italy.
The key statement here
The key statement here is:
“This decision results from necessity to put in place a business plan presented to the trades unions and staff organisations, necessary to ensure the continued production at that site, which also houses group functions and activities related to new products and new technologies.”
No one is talking about a closure of the main site at Vicenza. What is being suggested is that some assembly and production operations are expanded in two plants already up and running in Romania whilst Vicenza continues to do the great bulk of what it does now – R and D, proprietory-process manufacture and the design and manufacture of the machinery that Campagnolo need to allow them to follow those proprietory manufacturing processes.
This is absolutely *not* about who is better – a Ford Modeo or a Vauxhall Sigma or, for that matter a 25 year old Mini or a brand new Aston Martin do basically the same job, but they are at different price points and each has there adherents – and it’s the same with Campag, Shimano and SRAM.
Shimano and SRAM are head to head competitors in that their business models are focussed on an across-the board offering, from (almost) entry level OEM to high-end aftermarket. Campagnolo are competitors at a slight tangent to the other two – they are focussed on mid level OEM and after-market.
Different philosophies produce different solutions and different ways of working – what Campagnolo are doing is something that should be applauded – keeping manufacturing and innovation in Europe where possible – why? Because once we loose these things in Europe, getting them back is going to be very, very difficult.