Radio Two DJ and commuting cyclist Jeremy Vine has been busted for speeding in Hyde Park – for doing a mighty 16 miles per hour.
Vine announced his new-found outlaw status on Twitter this morning, with this video clip:
The moment I got stopped by police with a speed gun, checking cyclists today https://t.co/ytygaP4kY4
— Jeremy Vine (@theJeremyVine) November 20, 2014
2/2 They said speed limit in Hyde Park is 5mph and I was doing 16mph. I apologised. #LondonCycling https://t.co/ytygaP4kY4
— Jeremy Vine (@theJeremyVine) November 20, 2014
As one of the Royal Parks, Hyde Park is something of a law unto itself when it comes to setting speed limits on cyclists and even skateboarders and roller bladers, but this limit seems to be poorly posted at best. Google StreetView doesn't show any limit signs that we've been able to find in a few minutes' exploring and when he was asked if there were signs, Vine said: "Not … really …."
As Vine himself observes, the problem with a strategy of cracking down on 'speeding' on a very safe route away from motor vehicles is that cyclists will be forced on to the far more dangerous roads around Hyde Park instead. Asked by the London Cycling Campaign if he needed any help or advice, he replied:
.@london_cycling My concern is that if cyclists are forced to travel at walking pace they will return to the roads and mix it with trucks
— Jeremy Vine (@theJeremyVine) November 20, 2014
But the last word has to go to Vine's producer at Radio Two:
When I got to the office @BBCRadio2 and said I was radar-gunned at 16mph on my bicycle, producer said: YOU ARE LIVING ON THE EDGE
— Jeremy Vine (@theJeremyVine) November 20, 2014
66 thoughts on “Radio Two’s Jeremy Vine busted for speeding in Hyde Park – on his bike”
Obviously all serious crime
Obviously all serious crime in London has been solved if the police have time to stop cyclists going over the pointless speed limit here.
~X(
Rupert wrote:Obviously all
I guess he was stopped by the Royal Parks Police rather than the Regular Met Police..so no they probably didn’t have anything better to do
i thought the speed limit a)
i thought the speed limit a) didn’t apply to cycling and b) someone else challenged park speed limits previously….
5mph is a pointless speed
5mph is a pointless speed limit that (as vine has suggested) will force some to take their chances on the road.
5mph is one mile faster than
5mph is one mile faster than a steady walking pace.
Vine on Vine.. he has a great point about making more cyclists use the roads, where there could be real danger.
Just give up with this place sometimes. ~X(
It’s good to see that they
It’s good to see that they have solved all of the other crimes and motoring offences and that this is seen as the best use of resources. 8}
Hold on a minute – I thought
Hold on a minute – I thought speed limits for cyclists were not legally enforceable?
Right, now put your position
Right, now put your position to use, refuse to pay and insist on it going to a real court, not a rubber stamping Magistrate’s court… I do believe there is a lawyer out there just waiting to take them on pro-bono as he believes that they are completely mistaken on their interpretation of the law and that it is not possible without actually changing the law itself to do cyclists for speeding. Furious riding yes, but speeding no…
Paul_C wrote:Right, now put
Refuse to pay what exactly?
The Royal Parks in London are
The Royal Parks in London are the only place where you can find speed limits for cyclists. Don’t they have their own police too? Notice that he didn’t get fined.
There is no legal requirement
There is no legal requirement to have a speedometer on a bike so how can a cyclist be expected to observe a speed limit for which there is no signage? On a clearly demarcated cycle path?
It does mention the 5mph limit here but still…
https://www.royalparks.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/41689/cycling_in_the_royal_parks_leaflet_2008.pdf
Why don’t the Police use their resources to go and move all the cars that park in the mandatory cycle lane outside the barracks on South Carriage Drive?
But the question has to be,
But the question has to be, was he wearing a helmet whilst riding so recklessly ??
Here is road.cc’s previous
Here is road.cc’s previous story that fining cyclists for speeding in Royal Parks is, at least, on shaky legal ground. There’s a barrister out there willing to take on the fight if you do get fined.
Lots of people run at about
Lots of people run at about 8mph and faster. Are the police going to get the speed guns on speeding pedestrians next?
Give me strength. When the police next complain about being under-funded and under-resourced they can forget about getting any sympathy from me.
Around here there are no
Around here there are no speed limits! People drive at whatever speed they wish; but in London you cannot ride a bike at 16mph? What is going on?
5mph is a comfortable jog.
5mph is a comfortable jog. Are they trapping joggers who test their comfort levels?
I honestly believe that there
I honestly believe that there are a good number of people who go about their business by bike in the city who wouldn’t be able to balance on two wheels below 5mph. What a silly rule.
I agree that this sort of
I agree that this sort of thing is annoying but I think it unfair to attack the local police for this. I would put money on the decision to check and enforce speed limits in an area like this was requested by local residents/users and or the local borough council. I am sure the police and individual officers did not jump for joy and celebrate any success here.
james123 wrote:I would put
The police don’t bother to enforce 20mph limits – can’t be done, they said – even for lorries and HGVs, so I’m surprised the local residents have such sway over the bicycles / 5mph thing!
vbvb wrote:james123 wrote:I
The whole of Camden, Islington and the City are 20mph zones, and so they should be: they are all massively residential areas with dense populations walking to work and school. Try driving at 20, and you soon get barged out of the way / dangerously overtaken. It’s a great idea, but people are too used to driving when they want, where they want and as far as they want – and it is not enforced one bit.
might as well say no cycling.
might as well say no cycling. or jogging for that matter. Definitely no running. Can’t do any athletics in HP?
My twice weekly run is 5k. It’s done in a comfortable 25mins. that’s 12kph. or ~8mph. I’m 53.
What an fing ridiculous speed limit on a cycle path.
5mph is a limit for vehicles in car parks where stuff is moving all round and people are opening doors etc. Not a sensible travelling speed. 10mph would be fine on a mixed use path.
There’s a far few Light Infantry regiments with 140 ppm which might get clocked marching at that rate. It’s about 5and a fifth. If I remember rightly. The fifth being the the added speed to take a breaks and maintain 5mph. The Spanish legion better not be invited to London. They have 180ppm nearly 7mph. Standard marching speed for them.
I’ve ridden down this path
I’ve ridden down this path many times, never as slowly than 5 mph! I don’t remember seeing any signage to that effect – surely you can’t be stopped and fined when there is no signage telling you to do so?
Having said that, it is a busy path, usually filled with tourists 3 abreast on Boris bikes, wobbling in and out of the cycle lane and meandering pedestrians crossing randomly. I take the road round the perimeter now more often, as it’s fairly quiet during the evenings and weekends when I usually travel though Hyde Park
This on the day when it was
This on the day when it was announced that obesity now costs the NHS the same as smoking. Shouldn’t we be encouraging people to cycle in relatively safe environments?
Simple answer: Pick up your
Simple answer: Pick up your bike, shoulder it cyclocross style, and jog through the park.
Make sure you get it fairly side on to take up the maximum width you can to really block the paths and/or give the radar gun users a decent clip with a wheel as you pass….
FFS. I walk at 3.-4 mph.
FFS. I walk at 3.-4 mph. Have you ever tried riding a bike at 5mph, its very difficult and you are far more likely to wobble around than travelling at a normal speed.
Utter fcuktards
I wonder how many of you
I wonder how many of you complaining about the ‘pointless speed limit’ would be so generous to a motorist exceeding a ‘pointless speed limit’?
Whether it’s ‘pointless’ of not is not the point. He exceeded it and deserves to go down.
truffy wrote:I wonder how
Statistics say that if a motorist exceeds the 30 MPH limit and hits a child there’s an 80% chance they’ll be killed. That’s not pointless! The chances of someone on a bike hitting a pedestrian are pretty low. Even if they did at 16 MPH the risk of injury would also be pretty low, that’s why the 5 MPH limit is seen as pointless. If there is such a risk why aren’t they trying to mitigate it by getting the pedestrians off the cycle lanes?
Graymee2 wrote:truffy wrote:I
Statistics say that if a motorist exceeds the 30 MPH limit and hits a child there’s an 80% chance they’ll be killed. That’s not pointless! The chances of someone on a bike hitting a pedestrian are pretty low. Even if they did at 16 MPH the risk of injury would also be pretty low, that’s why the 5 MPH limit is seen as pointless. If there is such a risk why aren’t they trying to mitigate it by getting the pedestrians off the cycle lanes?— truffy
I wrote ‘pointless’ in quotes for a reason. But people saying that the speed restriction is pointless are missing the point (hohoho).
As to the “chances of someone on a bike hitting a pedestrian are pretty low…the risk of injury would also be pretty low”, I guess that depends on whether you’re the victim or not. It happens and if the victim is elderly then the consequences could be severe. Not only that, speeding cycles can be intimidating to pedestrians, even if they don’t mean to be.
truffy wrote:. He exceeded it
On who?
bendertherobot wrote:truffy
Whom.
truffy wrote:I wonder how
speed limits on the roads are never “pointless”…
I’m just so glad that I don’t
I’m just so glad that I don’t live in the greatest capital city in the world.
This was reported yesterday
This was reported yesterday in the Evening Standard, regarding the East West cycle superhighway.
And the same objection via this site as follows.
Why do I have a suspicion that someone within the management of the Royal Parks, has decided to make a point.
Spot on Bikebot. If that
Spot on Bikebot. If that speed camera was pointed down the motorway that Park lane has become it would show why safe routes through the park are required. However, let’s ignore the fact that this road is so dangerous you can only cross at lights and find a straw man to go after ?
Give. Me. Strength.
The question whether speed
The question whether speed limits apply to non-motorised vehicles on park roads is unclear; it would take a brave man to opine either way with any certainty. And don’t forget the old offence of wanton and furious cycling.
I cannot see any speed limit of 5mph in the bye-laws, but these only impose speed limits on park roads. Just to make it even less clear, I am not sure if this counts as a park road.
Perhaps the position is that cycling is allowed on the paths (cf. roads) at the Royal Parks’ discretion, so they can impose whatever speed limit they want.. but then I don’t know why the police are involved.
Is there a sign, or is “5mph” painted on the surface (like the big “10mph” on the shared path in Richmond Park)?
Whatever the law IS, it is ludicrous if there is a 5mph speed limit on a cycle path. It clearly reduces the status of cycling as a sensible mode of transport.
Comments on road.cc are
Comments on road.cc are always so predictable. No one here seems to care about the interests or safety of those not on a bike. Rules are for those other bastards etc.
birzzles wrote:Comments on
I walk at more than 5mph.
Mobility scooters go faster than 5mph.
Joggers easily exceed 5mph.
This isn’t really about speeds or safety is it?
farrell wrote:
I walk at more
I’ll bet you don’t
I occasionally used to walk
I occasionally used to walk to school, a little over six miles on cross country paths, in a smidge over an hour. It was definitely not running, I couldn’t run that far! Of course I only did that occasionally for fun because on a bike it only took 20 minutes.
So I’d give Farrell the benefit of the doubt, you can certainly walk at over 5mph.
stuartp wrote:farrell
Go on then, faceless stranger on the internet, please tell me how fast I walk.
I’ve cycled many many times
I’ve cycled many many times through Hyde Park over the last twenty years, and have never seen anything about a speed limit. I’ve also done my fair share of rollerblading down on the Serpentine at more than 5mph, and never had a problem. Madness.
Let me get this straight. So
Let me get this straight. So the park police have opted to enforce a law that no-one knew about and isn’t indicated and which can’t be applied to bicycles because they are not required by law to have a calibrated speedometer? It doesn’t take the sharpest legal mind to see that there’s something of a legal gap there.
I’ve ridden through Hyde Park many times along the designated cycle area on my old commute. I was there not so long ago too and don’t remember seeing a sign.
Hands up anyone who rides there regularly who knew there was a speed limit and have seen signs.
And yes, Park Lane is like a racetrack. Perhaps the police would find a better use of their time turning the speed camera on some of the high powered vehicles roaring up and down there.
So, before visiting London, I
So, before visiting London, I check the Royal Parks’ website, ‘Cycling In the Royal Parks’ page:
https://www.royalparks.org.uk/parks/hyde-park/visitor-information/park-regulations-and-policies/cycling-in-the-royal-parks
I also download the link on that page for the Cycling Policy document:
https://www.royalparks.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/41813/the_royal_parks_cycling_policy_july_2008.pdf
As far as I can see, neither mention a limit
The police really are
The police really are cretins.
If the maximum safe speed is
If the maximum safe speed is 5mph then the infrastructure is not fit for purpose. Either ban cycling altogether or sort it out.
[[[[[ The parks-police (?)
[[[[[ The parks-police (?) says to Jeremy Vine, “OY!”. Funny, that. On TV police documentary footage, police always say, “Excuse me, sir…”, or “Hello there–how you doin’–all right?”, even to drivers stopped for serious motoring offences. Hmm…
P.R.
So predictable that it’s all
So predictable that it’s all the police’s fault. When ever there’s a story that involves the police, automatically by default they are the trouble makes and instigators of all life’s woes.
I’d imagine that someone has complained about cycling in the park and the police have responded by carrying out speed checks, which is what you would expect given the above.
In all fairness 16mph on a designated cycle route isn’t that fast and 5mph is ridiculously slow and probably more dangerous. I far as I am aware, speed limits do not apply to cycles on roads or parks. It seems that Vine was given words of advice, hence no fine and I doubt he was ‘cycling furiously’!
Pity the arseole wasnt
Pity the arseole wasnt stopped for his moronic radio 2 show,cretin
Quote:Comments on road.cc are
Are you aware how ridiculously slow 5mph is?
At that speed the cyclists will need protection from the pedestrians whizzing past….
Personally I think the parks authority need to justify why the 5mph limit is necessary, and why it is not signposted.
I ride through there everyday
I ride through there everyday (and used to have the Strava KOM…) and saw the cops this morning though most were actually PCOs.
I can confirm there are no signs pointing out the speed limit along this section. Moreover Vine is quite right, if they do expect people to ride at 5 mph I (and many others) will just go and ride along South Carriage. Fortunately that’s a pretty safe alternative.
Two things about this though:
1) Think the Parks are now owned by the Mayor (rather than central Government as used to the case) so Boris Johnson should tell them to go hang. He’s also the PCC for the Met should give them a dressing down for wasting resources.
2) There’s a ruddy great big horse track next parallel to the shared use path. It wouldn’t be hard to give up some of that for cycling and it’d have no impact on pedestrians.
The Royal parks dislike
The Royal parks dislike cycling. There’s plenty of space for several wide, high quality separate cycleways through the parks without overly impinging upon green space. Instead they paint a line down a path and impose a punitive speed limit.
Al__S wrote:The Royal parks
I’m sure that you are right about the attitude of the Royal Parks to cycling. It does however beg the question why don’t they simply ban cycling altogether in the Royal Parks? Is someone forcing them to make provision for cycling or something?
Of course… if enough people
Of course… if enough people fall off their bikes and have any pain or injury then report it to the parks police. If being forced to ride so slowly may have caused the injury then this limit would have to be reviewed.
If it was difficult to ride so slow then many may fall off….
I have just sent a Freedom of
I have just sent a Freedom of Information request to Royal Parks for information on all the speed limits at different points on Parks cycle lanes…..suggest several hundred others do the same to ensure we all have the information required to be able to comply with their very unclear rules.
cycle@royalparks.gsi.gov.uk
What about the Broad Walk in
What about the Broad Walk in Regents Park? The KOM is well over 20mph (which can only be achieved at dawn). There are no speed limit signs anywhere.
…and the average speed of
…and the average speed of someone running (for arguments sake training for a marathon) is ?
As a previous poster
As a previous poster commented, a bicycle is not required (by law) to be fitted with a speedometer, and there are no bicycle speedometers that meet DOT specifications for calibration and accuracy.
So, can any legal expert advise road.cc readers (and the Police if reading this thread) how a cyclist can accurately gauge their speed to comply with a 5mph speed limit?
Surely, the Police could be challenged using this information; its not commonly known that the Police will often rely on the ignorance of the general public to readily accept any accusations made “You fit the description of someone seen in the area..”
Was there a recent case against a Richmond Park cyclist that was overturned on appeal because the cyclist contested his ability to gauge his speed with any accuracy after the Police fined him for speeding in the park?
5mph on a bike is very slow.
5mph on a bike is very slow. I’m not sure I’ve ever done that on the road.
I run at over 5mph though – I’d be interested in the bloke who says that he walks at 5mph. Thats almost twice the speed I do and I’ve never been passed by someone at that speed !
fenix wrote:5mph on a bike is
Tried to go at walking pace, so a little slower and it is f***ing hard to maintain for any distance on the road, I can do it off road as I have something to push against, the hill. You do end up wandering all over trying to maintain balance. a 5mph speedlimit is really really stupidly slow!
5mph on a bike is very slow.
5mph on a bike is very slow. I’m not sure I’ve ever done that on the road.
I run at over 5mph though – I’d be interested in the bloke who says that he walks at 5mph. Thats almost twice the speed I do and I’ve never been passed by someone at that speed !
It’s a Royal Park, so let’s
It’s a Royal Park, so let’s sponsor Prince Charles to ride his bike through it at 10mph and see if they book him.
I’m not entirely sure, but if
I’m not entirely sure, but if you listen carefully and have audio enhancement software, I’m sort of sure you can hear ‘f**k off you pleb, do you know who I am? I pay your wages and I earn a load more than you’ I think I’m right and it’ll be in a National Newspaper tomorrow morning………
This has currently got to be
This has currently got to be one of the greatest wastes of Police time,resources and effort anywhere in this increasingly
over sensitive and under funded nanny state.
I wonder how prat -like the offices must feel doing such a demeaning job as busting and treating the cyclist like they are being told off by mummy or daddy.
Which over-paid and under utilised individual thought this one up?
From what I can see from the
From what I can see from the pictures provided by Mr Vine’s webcam, the shared path is not wide enough to safely accommodate both cyclists and pedestrians without risk of conflict.
Such a cycling path needs to be properly engineered as a clearly defined separate roadway, and be at least two metres wide with an angled raised kerb separating it from the adjacent walkway.
According to the Royal Parks
According to the Royal Parks there is no law to keep at 5mph, so it’s not enforceable and besides, I doubt the radar gun was calibrated for use on a bicycle as the frontal signature is too small to record accurate readings.
But I agree any shared path with pedestrians you should moderate your speed. Hitting someone on a bike at 16 mph or more with a combined weight of 100kgs or more will hurt someone, possibly both parties.
I agree with: How can one be
I agree with: How can one be done for speeding, if there is no VOSA recognised speedo on a bike!
Also… I just tried walking fast (to the point where it became uncomfortable for me), and achieved 3.2 MPH. This was using Wahoo Fitness app on my iPhone 5s. (I’ve tested this against the old magnet system – with the exact circumference etc.)
And… Personally, I think 16 MPH is maybe too fast through the parks (if on a shared path). When I cycle on mostly flat roads with only marginal hills (Bath to Bristol), I average 18 MPH – and that’s with me, as the police put it, making progress! Even 12-13 MPH on a road bike is a comfortably fast pace. 🙂