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When to give in to Karen?
...And reward her poor behaviour.
we've all been there - narrow country lane and for what seems like an eternity (in reality 3 or 4 minutes) you're conscious of a car behind you and the driver is getting impatient. Then she starts a ridiculous overtake rapidly abandoned and then there's a reasonably decent house frontage to pull into and let her go past.
What usually happens is you pull over, only to find they've met a tractor or a horse or even another car and you now have to wait while they pick their way past. As it was, a nice ill-tempered accelerate of her nondescript 54 reg car, kicking up a load of dust and off she went. There were two kids in the back, looking like The Shining twins, heads turned, vaguely malovent.
I think the test is what to do that will make her a better driver for the next cyclist - so, folks - when should I concede to to Karen?
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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30 comments
There clearly isn't a hard and fast rule here.
On one hand, no-one likes a car right behind them, and it's d1ckish to hold people up just because you can. On the other, there's no need to squeeze yourself into a hedge or ride through huge potholes just so someone can get past you a minute or 2 quicker.
Apply common sense: if it's relatively easy and safe to move over, do so; if it isn't, don't. Where's the controversy here?
Country lanes are kind of necessary if you live in a villiage irrespective of whether we feel they are the most effective route (Vs over a field ?) or not.
As a driver I had many older men riding very expensive looking bikes slowly on their bailout years through country lanes which would cause massive tailbacks.. there are passing routes but it's the gentlemen's right !!!! The younger guys didn't ride with so much privilege.
As a rider I make sure to give way whenever possible as more often than not I'm travelling a fraction of the speed available whilst people may have more pressing concerns then my country jaunt.
Unfortunately many drivers get pissed off though and perform stupidly dangerous moves. They probably would too in other vehicles or situations. Can't help stupid.
On a twisty, narrow country road. The equation is.
How much would you rather an impatient, agressive, low skill driver, often in an oversized vehicle, be off and away up the road providing you with an albeit temporary rolling road block against similarly poorly driven vehicles coming at you the other way.
V
How much effort is it to duck into a convenient passing place.
I dont agree that's the balance of the equation though, especially having just been on the receiving end again of a number of these style passes today.
I'd say how much effort is it just to wait till there is a convenient passing point, before pushing for a pass, because clearly alot of motorists I encounter it's far too much
I dont want an impatient driver stuck behind me, I'm not there to hold up drivers,I will move across when theres reasonable gaps,though little thanks I get for it. but I will not and i refuse to immediately dive into the nearest bush,just to let some impatient sod hare off like they are driving on a rally stage. That is unacceptable driving to me.
Not sure how you equate my "convenient passing place" to diving into the nearest bush.
Im not equating the two, Im saying the latter is what I experience, being allowed to find a convenient passing place is a luxury rarely afforded to me, so how can that possibly be the solution to the equation of riding on a narrow country road?
I was two bike lengths away from a proper passing place today, two bike lengths, would the driver wait all of 5 secs longer, would they f... they just drove past me, one wheel up the grass verge,still giving me barely enough room to dodge their wing mirror, I hadnt even held them up, theyd literally only just caught me up, had me in sight on a dead straight road for 20 seconds, they didnt even have to use the brakes to slow down, just lift off the throttle coast alittle bit, but no they couldnt bring themselves to do that, they had to carry on at full speed and be damned to the poxy cyclist in the way.
Its not really a question of 'giving in', merely an acceptance that a car is likely to be quicker cross-country than me. If that means ducking into a gap for 5 seconds to let them past then I will usually do it, if the road is hard to pass safely on.
I'd suggest that 3 or 4 minutes is a long time to be driving at 12-15 mph, even I might get hacked off by that. Think of it as being on a shared path and riding up behind a family walking their dog across the whole width and deliberately ignoring you.
I ride on country lanes a lot and find that, for many drivers, waiting 20-30 seconds behind me bowling along (I'm usually not hanging around) is considered an excessively long time; the delay must feel particularly painful for a plumber or electrician driving a van. Consequently I pull over at the first opportunity because the alternative is a close pass on what is often a single track road with an uneven verge.
What I find worse is the drivers who won't slow or pull into a passing place or the pull onto my side of the road around a parked vehicle because they are happy to bully a cyclist into pulling onto the verge (or at least the edge of the road). That happens far too often as well.
Not sure I understand the specific plumber / electrician /van reference. If any driver is starting to over boil after 20s of alleged "delay", then there's something wrong, isn't there?
Remember too that in many situations, including this one, the car/van is an illusion of speed e.g. in a typical Jeremy Vine London video, he typically catches-up a driver at junctions 3-4 times over in clear conditions.
Tradesmen in vans seem to be the least patient drivers in my experience on country roads.
But that's not to suggest that everyone else is a paragon of virtue behind the wheel.
Not sure I understand the specific plumber / electrician /van reference
I do. However, tractor man and Massive FWD SUV mummy are pretty bad as well, and we hardly need to add the ever-guilty Panzerman, because we all know him.
I agree that 3-4 minutes is a long time - and perhaps included passing multiple points which would have allowed easy pulling-in to let the faster vehicle to pass. As someone else noted, we'd all be hacked off if some pedestrians held us up for that duration on a shared use path.
Is this all Karens?
Not Karen Gillan.
And this person is a 'Karen' because everyone has to have a label in today's culture wars?
I'm not sure what counts as 'giving in'. I suspect that thinking in terms of 'giving in' (and by implication 'winning') is not a terribly good attitude on the road. Let someone pass as soon as it's safe to do so and doesn't unduly inconvenience you. No point antagonising them or yourself.
And I'd guess that 'The Shining twins' in the back are turning to look at you because you're the most interesting thing they've seen since they were strapped in.
I try and wait until it is safe, and safe enough for me to not stop as they pass.
I may be going somewhere important...
As Mrs Badger is called Karen I feel I speak with some authority, and would suggest as soon as humanly possible. Speaking from experience...
Ex-Mrs K is called Karen. I'm keeping well out of this.
I think you should take a pragmatic approach and do whatever is least likely to get you killed or seriously injured.
I tend to let them past ASAP on a narrow lane.
I'll stay in the centre of the lane until they're down to my speed before moving to the side and letting them pass. Tends to work ok at stopping the high speed squeeze by.
Keeping central in the lane if a safe pass is not possible, i.e. I'm going downhill at speed, it's on a bend, I'm about to turn off onto a side road, it's a HGV/Bus/Coach/Combine/Tractor and the road is not wide enough so need to find a field gate or wide verge etc. But this is usually for less than a minute.
As far as I'm concerned, as soon as possible. There's no point in unnecessarily holding someone up when I'm on a leisurely exercise ride, it's possible that they genuinely need to be somewhere on time. I also find that letting motorists past often garners a friendly "thank you" toot or hazard flash, and I consider that one less animosity-riddled driver and one less anti-cycling voice. Mutual respect is key.
if they need to be somewhere on time, wtf are they driving down a narrow country lane, when they could literally meet anything coming the other way which would block their way permanently, and there are always better quicker alternative routes they could take if they just took their eyes off their GPS once in a while.
btw if you made it 3mins Id be impressed, 30 secs is about as much leeway I seem to get before the front bumper feels like its nudging my calf, its that high rev gear mode they sit in, sort of passive aggressive make some noise Im here let me past, and they wont wait until theres a proper safe gap, theyll force their way through regardless, even when you are literally feet away from a decent gap.
I do my best to share mutual respect on the roads, I dont get alot of it in return, if even a quarter of vehicles i let pass acknowledge me Id be surprised, I resort now to an exaggerated comedy big thumbs up after theyve passed without recognition, but they are too focussed on where ever it is they are going in such a hurry to notice.
I even had a friendly toot from a HGV yesterday when I sat in primary for 20 seconds to block him passing on double white lines with oncoming traffic! I was turning left and going quite quick downhill, so I pointed at the junction ahead, made a left signal and thumbs up and he didn't tailgate me. Gave a little toot as I turned off and raised my hand to thank him for waiting.
Despite what some motorists think, nobody goes out cycling to hold up traffic deliberately (well, unless it's a critical mass event or something).
Trouble is that some drivers have a different idea of what "as soon as possible" actually means...
About as likely to be in a genuine hurry as I was on a Sunday afternoon on a narrow country road. Why does the driver's poor planning/time management have to be my problem?
I agree about mutual respect, avoiding making a cyclist hater where there wasn't one before, or even deepening an already ingrained prejudice ("that's the second time this year - this always happens") - but you seem to have a different interpretation of mutual respect.
Hey David, sorry to pick you up on this but what about your ingrained prejudice against this female 'Karen' driving a 54 plate car (presumably not new enough for you?). You see, it works both ways.
Not sure the second sentence really flows from the previous statement.
Simple courtesy shouldn't be thought of as a problem.
You mean like not using your half tonne car to threaten people? Yes, that simple courtesy would indeed be nice, and shouldn't be thought of as a problem.
Fiat 500 then !
A lot of cars weigh around 1.5 T