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forum
Value brands
Hey folks, it's been years since I've posted. I'm looking at a new bike, and can't believe how prices have gone crazy. I'd like one of the newer aero bikes that also manages to be reasonably comfortable and easy to live with. I test rode a Dogma F12 and loved it, but I'm not paying that kind of money. Ditto the Tarmac etc, it seems common these days for a good frame with second tier kit like Ultegra Di2 or Force AXS and decent wheels to be £7-8k.
However, there are a bunch of seemingly good value brands. British brand Handsling charge £5.4K for their aero bike with Force AXS (with a quarq PM!) and their own 50mm carbon wheels. They even own their own frame moulds.
North Road Cycles want even less, £4.5k for their equivalent with Ultegra Di2. Lios, £4.7k with Force AXS.
So, does anyone have any experience with these brands? What are the bikes like? How do they ride? What are they sacrificing to hit these price points, even if the answer is 'expensive marketing'?
Thanks everyone!
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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There is also Pearson Cycles in SW London. Cycling Weekly recently said very nice things about their HammerandTongs, the review below was in a recent paper copy that I put out for recycling this week.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/reviews/bike-reviews/pearson-hammerandtong...
Pearson's model page has a drop-down that shows the price for the wheel and groupset options:
https://www.pearson1860.com/collections/road-bikes/products/hammer-and-t...
A mate of mine bought a Handlsing last year, and he bloody loves it! I know he did a lot of research first & was really happy with the service he got from them when buying.
Thanks! Do you know which model he has? I'm also wondering about their wheels, do you know if he has the 50mm carbon model?
It's their aero frame, with bling AXS & their carbon 40mm wheels I think (he wants some deeper ones next). Riding it after a winter on his similar blinged gravel bike has brought a massive grin
My two cents:
There's quite an interesting article relevant to this topic here: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/inside-frame-design-489852
Most of these value for money "brands" are simply ordering frames from factories in Asia (indeed I note Handsling are quite explicit about that). Owning their own mould means that the bikes won't be identical to others you find, but arguably the open moulds are actually pretty good and there's not a huge amount of reason to think a proprietary mould is noticably better. Furthermore, as the article discusses there's a lot that goes into manufacturing a carbon frame that the brand will just be choosing from a menu list. There's a lot more that could be varied in the construction process - this article discusses some of them and might be interesting: https://blog.3t.bike/2021/06/17365/frame-building-is-coming-home/
None of this is to say you'll end up with a bad bike if you go down this route, more just trying to explain the business model and highlight some of the areas where different companies might differ. There is also a strong argument for the law of diminishing returns - you can do all sorts of fancy stuff with carbon that might make a slightly better bike, but at a much higher cost. If you're a pro or have money to burn, maybe that slight benefit is worth it. For the rest of us, maybe less so.
I know someone who recently bought an Orro Venturi and he really rates it (looks bloody lovely in the flesh too)... he even got 55mm wheels on it over the standard 40mm at no extra cost, just for a bit of added aero bling.
Don't really see what you're giving up to the Dogma other than a name and a few hundred grams, and at 4.5k for new Ultegra Di2 version with fancy schmancy integrated cockpit etc. it falls squarely within the 'affordable superbike' bracket.
Very well reviewed in this august publication too, albeit a few years and some slightly less tasteful paintjobs ago: https://road.cc/content/review/271279-orro-venturi-ultegra-di2-wind-400-...
I'm eyeing up one of those as a treat to myself for landmark birthday next year, out of interest did he get his wheel change buying direct from Orro?
I nearly mentioned Orro as well actually, so this is good to know, thanks! I actually test rode the Dogma just because the Manchester Pinarello store held a demo day like a mile from my house, and I'd never ridden anything of that level before. I couldn't afford to drop £12k no matter how good it is.
I think North Road frames are generic open mould, which obviously is not necessarily a bad thing. Dolan are worth a look for similar price bracket and a longer history (I doubt the spec would match what you mention from North Road for theat price though). Still, upwards of £4K is more than I'd want to be paying for a bike personally. Have you had a look at the 2nd hand market?
TBH, I was hoping to pay around £3k, but you get less for your money than I was thinking of. I wouldn't have a problem with used but for the lack of transferable warranties. Even then, I wouldn't have a problem with a used groupset. I've just bought some used-but-like-new Spesh shoes, because it's obvious how much or little they have been used - you can't disguise wear to shoes, but a frame and wheels I'd be more unsure of.
VFM.
£4.5k!!
Lol.
Oh totally! I have a whole other rant about that; in 2014 a Madone with Di2 was £2.4k, it's now nearly triple that. However, moaning about that wouldn't actually get me anywhere. I should have said 'value for money by comparison'.
I suggest you get the Dogma, even if you have to sell one of the boats, or let some staff go.
Er, I'm not the thread starter, so not sure why you are directing your ire at me?
Thanks for the recommendation though, but I'm perfectly happy with my current bike, a Focus Mares CX. I'll leave the consumerism to others. Have you confused me with someone else?
but if I do that, who will clean the bike?!
I'm not sure where you would fit them but I'm currently riding two Giants (obvs not at the same time, Defy Advanced Pro 0, Ult. Di2, disc, carbon wheels which was just over £3k in 2017, and my winter bike is a gravel Revolt Advanced 2 at just over £2k bought last autumn
Love my Defy which I run with 25mm tubeless (Conti TL at the moment) - no punctures for 2 years (or rather no fix requiring punctures in 2 years). Considered moving up to 28s but not available at my usual sources. It's done about 15,000 miles I think, just rode it today and still feeling good.
I ride the Revolt with 32mm tyres and either the wheels or tyres make it a bit heavy compared to the Defy on the road, but the fit is about the same as the Defy so I'm happy to use either depending on conditions.
So, is say Giant are worth considering for a "budget premium" bike.