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tubeless (newbie)

quick question...

I've preordered a pair of Hunt 'all season' wheels as an upgrade for my Genesis Vagabond, but im completely new to the tubeless tyre concept....

My question is this - Should i buy my own tyres, sealant, valves etc and pay my lbs to set up the wheels or shall I give it a go - As a newbie am i lilely to f*%k it up by damaging the wheels? I understand i may need a better track pump as well.....

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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21 comments

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nniff | 3 years ago
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I'm in the 'waste of time and effort on a road bike' school of thought.  I persevered for a couple of years then threw a pair of 'perfecty good' top-dollar tubeless tyres in the bin, gave all my tubless kit (that tells you everything you need to know) to a friend (not for much longer) and put Michelin Pro4s back on.  Not looked back since.

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Welsh boy | 3 years ago
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Two comments here, the first is dont bother with an inflator tank, I have never failed to seat a tubeless tyre with either a track pump or, where that doesnt work, a CO2 canister.  Secondly, dont bother with tubeless, after sticking with them for 3 years and trying to convince myself it was better than tubes I have now gone back to using inner tubes.

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Joe Totale replied to Welsh boy | 3 years ago
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I've also found with two layers of decent tape that all tyres will seat either with a pump or at worst with CO2. 

On the road I don't think the advantages are significant enough for someone to spend a load of money to switch to tubeless. If you've got a decent set up with tubes and are good at changing them quickly then I wouldn't bother. 

Off the beaten track though where low pressures really help and you don't want to risk pinching a tube, I think tubeless is definitely an upgrade. I find the sealant is more likely to seal punctures at lower pressures, at road pressures it just spurts out before it has a chance of sealing anything. 

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Recoveryride replied to Joe Totale | 3 years ago
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It depends on your weight and the tyre size, but actually one of the advantages on road is being able to run lower pressures. I'm about 72-73kg and run 65 front and rear on 28s. Significantly improved ride quality and slightly better grip in the wet.

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Joe Totale replied to Recoveryride | 3 years ago
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I'm a few kilos lighter than you and have been known to ride 28mm tyres with latex tubes at 65psi. You have to go lower than that before pinch punctures become an issue. 

I will admit though that in my experience some tubeless tyres are more comfortable, the Veloflex Corsa's are like riding on clouds despite the ones I was using being only being 25mm wide. Shame that they regularly needed topping up with sealant. 

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0-0 | 3 years ago
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If it hasn't been mentioned already.

When blowing the tyres up for the first time (without sealant), I'd recommend wetting the tyres/wheel rims with hot soapy water, using a sponge.

 

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IanEdward | 3 years ago
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I'd want to be able to do it myself, would hate to have to resort to going to a shop every time I wanted to change tyres or fix punctures!

I resisted for the longest time, even riding gravel/CX with latex tubes and 40psi in 40mm tyres I was having fewer punctures and problems than friends with tubeless set ups.

Then Hawthorne cutting season started and I was repairing two or three punctures after every ride (in defense of the latex tubes, they typically didn't flat on the ride). 

Going tubeless turned out to be a bit of a nightmare, even with a purpose design Beto inflation tank. I learned the following:

1) Install new tyres with tubes first and leave for a day or two somewhere warm (indoors) to 'stretch' out any kinks in the bead.

2) Try and inflate with just a track pump, you might get lucky.

3) If that doesn't work, valve cores out! 

4) Try again with track pump and if that doesn't work it's air-tank/inflator time and maybe lubricating the beads (I try to resist this, the less mess the better!).

5) Once you can get them seated, pop one side off furthest from valve to put sealant in, but be neat! I slopped too much in and splashed it over the side of the bead and I must also have got it on the rim. This seemed to make it harded to get the tyre to seat again e.g. a tyre which had previously seated straight away with a track pump now needed multiple attempts with the valve core out and the inflation tank.

6) Don't go crazy with the lower pressures, I still prefer to keep them inflated such that rim strike is rare. I've seen mates pinch flat their tyres such that they couldn't be repaired again. Low pressures are a big advantage of tubeless but I definitely think you can go too low.

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cdean | 3 years ago
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One more tip – if you're struggling to get them to seat, put them on with an inner tube to begin with and inflate until you hear both beads snap into place. You can then unseal one side of the tyre only and remove the tube, leaving the other sealed to the rim. You then only have to seat the other one with a track pump. I have Hunt all season wheels and really struggled fitting Schwalbe Durano tyres (not tubeless), but Hutchinsons (tubeless) went on without any tyre levers!

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mike the bike | 3 years ago
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If it's any help, I also use Hunt All Season wheels and have run them tubeless from new.  They came ready fitted with good quality rim tape and tubeless valves so you won't have to buy those.  Fitting my Hutchinson tyres was a doddle, needing only minimal use of small levers and my weedy thumbs.  In order to get them to adopt a more friendly shape I did inflate them without sealant first and left them overnight.  This proved easy with just a track pump and took only a few minutes.

In use I needed to check pressures only every couple of weeks and the wheels have remained true, and lovely, for almost a year.  Good luck.

PS Not really relevant to your post but I gave up with the tubeless after about eight months.  For road use they were much more trouble than I had hoped, failing on two occasions to seal both large and tiny holes.  Your experience may be better.

 

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Recoveryride replied to mike the bike | 3 years ago
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mike the bike wrote:

 

PS Not really relevant to your post but I gave up with the tubeless after about eight months.  For road use they were much more trouble than I had hoped, failing on two occasions to seal both large and tiny holes.  Your experience may be better.

On balance, I'm in favour of tubeless. I've had one occasion in a year where they didn't work, but that was a big sidewall tear that would probably have had me calling in the cavalry with a tubed tyre (as the tyre itself was shot). You can get tubeless repair kits (worms plus a tool) off Amazon, and they're worth carrying. I've used mine once and while it wasn't perfect it got me home from about 30 miles out.

The thing with tubeless is that the failures are very obvious, but the successes often go unnnoticed, if that makes sense. Unless you check your tyres after every ride, it can be easy to miss the small holes that have sealed.

Yes, you do need to re-inflate them regularly (typically weekly), and I think the chance of a catastrophic failure you'd can't fix on the road is a bit higher, but I think the better ride quality, and ability to self-fix minor holes, offsets that. 

It's interesting that a few wheel manufacturers seem to be moving away from tubeless again for road wheels; I don't think take-up has been what they hoped, and in the group of guys I know, I'd say it's about 70/30 tubed/tubeless.

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mike the bike replied to Recoveryride | 3 years ago
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Glad your experience was better than mine, recoveryride.  After a promising start things went badly wrong on a couple of occasions, once when I was wet, cold and miles from home, which didn't help.

The whole saga is available to read on UKRC's website, along with other people's thoughts.

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Recoveryride | 3 years ago
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If the wheels come set up with the tubeless tape, do it yourself. hawkinspeter explains very well how to do it.

One tip: as noted, try and inflate the tyre first without sealant. If that's tricky, you can use a C02 canister (don't do that with sealant, as it can freeze it and render it useless). Then you can deflate it after an hour, and put in sealant through the valve hole.

Oh, and some tyre/rim combos are much easier to fit than others. Conti GP TLEs are b*stards on most.

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hawkinspeter replied to Recoveryride | 3 years ago
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I fitted a pair of Conti GP5000 TLEs before Xmas (onto Prime Carbon rims) and didn't find them a problem and yet the other day I managed to completely snap a tyre lever trying to remove a MTB tyre (tubed) from Mrs Hawkinspeter's bike.

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Master Bean replied to Recoveryride | 3 years ago
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TLE is Schwalbe's acronym for tubeless easy. Continental just call theirs TL as there is nothing easy about fitting those heaps of shit.

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hawkinspeter | 3 years ago
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Give it a go yourself. You're unlikely to damage the wheels (unless you have a hard time getting the tyre on and resort to using a screwdriver or metal implements) and you'll certainly learn something.

Important points to remember:

  • Properly applied tubeless rim tape is essential - your wheels may already have this fitted
  • If you need to fit your own rim tape, make sure that it ends up nice and flat without wrinkles and make the valve hole with something round and pointy rather than a knife
  • Lubricating the tyre beads makes it easier to seat the tyre - you can use dilute washing up liquid to do this first before putting the tyre on the wheel
  • Remember that the middle of the rim bed is lower (i.e. smaller diameter) than the outsides, so push the tyre bead into the middle to give a tiny bit more play when trying to mount the tyre onto the rim
  • I recommend trying to seat the tyre beads without using sealant first of all as it's a lot less messy and should give you some clue as to how airtight your setup is. If the beads bang into place without sealant, you can then deflate it and add sealant through the valve (if you've got a removable core and some kind of syringey thing that fits in the valve) or unseat one of the beads and pour some sealant into the tyre (typically a bit messy)
  • Do it outside or somewhere that spilled sealant won't be a problem

When everything works fine, you can seat and inflate them with a normal track pump. When you've got a small air leak you may need to push a lot of air quickly into the tyre to seat it and that requires something like a tubeless air tank (e.g. https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/21-best-bike-pumps-and-co2-inflators-183431).

If you try it yourself and struggle, take it to your LBS and they'll probably get it done in 5 minutes and make it look easy (probably by someone with bionic thumbs).

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don simon fbpe replied to hawkinspeter | 3 years ago
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hawkinspeter wrote:

Give it a go yourself. You're unlikely to damage the wheels (unless you have a hard time getting the tyre on and resort to using a screwdriver or metal implements) and you'll certainly learn something.

Important points to remember:

  • Properly applied tubeless rim tape is essential - your wheels may already have this fitted
  • If you need to fit your own rim tape, make sure that it ends up nice and flat without wrinkles and make the valve hole with something round and pointy rather than a knife
  • Lubricating the tyre beads makes it easier to seat the tyre - you can use dilute washing up liquid to do this first before putting the tyre on the wheel
  • Remember that the middle of the rim bed is lower (i.e. smaller diameter) than the outsides, so push the tyre bead into the middle to give a tiny bit more play when trying to mount the tyre onto the rim
  • I recommend trying to seat the tyre beads without using sealant first of all as it's a lot less messy and should give you some clue as to how airtight your setup is. If the beads bang into place without sealant, you can then deflate it and add sealant through the valve (if you've got a removable core and some kind of syringey thing that fits in the valve) or unseat one of the beads and pour some sealant into the tyre (typically a bit messy)
  • Do it outside or somewhere that spilled sealant won't be a problem

When everything works fine, you can seat and inflate them with a normal track pump. When you've got a small air leak you may need to push a lot of air quickly into the tyre to seat it and that requires something like a tubeless air tank (e.g. https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/21-best-bike-pumps-and-co2-inflators-183431).

If you try it yourself and struggle, take it to your LBS and they'll probably get it done in 5 minutes and make it look easy (probably by someone with bionic thumbs).

Follow this and you can't go wrong, I would add that some tyres sit more easily than others. That is, if you're stuggling to get the tyres to sit, it isn't necessarily your fault. Always give it a go.

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Rich_cb | 3 years ago
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Personally I'd let Hunt set them up (assuming they still offer that service) then ride for a while and see if you prefer tubeless to tubed.

If you're going to buy your own tyres etc then I'd recommend Milkit valves, will make your life far easier in the long term.

Probably worth giving it a go yourself first with your standard track pump, a lot of modern tyre/wheel combos will seat easily (a lot will not!).

You shouldn't damage the wheels at all, just might make a bit of a mess!

If you can't get them to sit I'd go LBS before investing in new pumps etc.

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hawkinspeter replied to Rich_cb | 3 years ago
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I sort of recommend MilkIt valves - they make it easier to add/remove sealant but they're over-priced for what they are and I somehow manage to keep breaking them (but I've replaced them with new MilkIt valves despite the price).

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Rich_cb replied to hawkinspeter | 3 years ago
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They're definitely overpriced but I haven't managed to break them yet! Probably jinxed myself now...

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hawkinspeter replied to Rich_cb | 3 years ago
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I've got the 75mm length ones and have had two of them break where the valve core screws in. I've also had problems with the plastic valve core extenders (black plastic tube thing) getting stuck and getting twisted. I suspect it's due to my in-expert fettling techniques.

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Rich_cb replied to hawkinspeter | 3 years ago
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I'm as cack-handed as anyone but am running the 35mm versions, maybe there's a difference?

Will be investing in some deep section wheels at some point this year so will treat the long versions with kid gloves!

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