[HoarseMann]

Generally, I hold Ashley Neal’s driving advice in high regard. But he’s been a bit wide of the mark (in my view) with his recent series of videos about the highway code changes.

In his latest video, he berates a couple of cyclists for riding two abreast on a country road with two lanes. My opinion is there is plenty of room to give a 1.5m clearance without the cyclists needing to single out. It looks like a standard 6m wide carriageway.

I even looked up the width of an oncoming Smart ForFour (1.0L Passion 2015 model apparently), which is 1.875m (excluding wing/DOOR mirrors). Overlaying this distance on a screen grab of the video seems to confirm there is plenty of space (see below).

I also don’t agree with his use of the horn. Imagine if every car that passed you ‘warned you of their presence’ with a ‘friendly’ toot. In my view, the only reason to warn someone of your presence is when you think they might need to take some evasive action or look like they might cross your path.

Is he right or wrong? Would you single out here? Do you mind the horn?

Topic

[Jimmy Ray Will]

I agree with you on this…

I agree with you on this… there was ample opportunity to overtake when first encountering the cyclists, but he failed to take action.

I would also argue that the cyclist’s positioning on the road encroaches further into the carriageway than I would normally expect to see… could just be the camera lense. 

Plus they do seem unusually engrossed in their conversation.

A cynic might suggest that the whole thing has been staged to emphasise the point. 

[Daveyraveygravey]

I don’t know what a “friendly

I don’t know what a “friendly” toot sounds like, I cannot remember the last time I heard one.  It might be some quaint throwback to the golden age of motoring, but in my experience it just doesn’t happen these days.

Therefore any use of the horn will get my hackles and probably my middle finger up.  If you’re driving behind a cyclist, however you use your horn will make them jump, which doesn’t seem advisable to me. 

[quiff]

I’m not totally against a

I’m not totally against a friendly horn toot if a driver thinks I may genuinely not be aware of them. However, if I haven’t already heard you coming, then even a friendly toot is likely to be alarming. So, if you’re going to do it, I think you need to leave a pause before you then overtake, to account for the cyclist jumping / turning to look etc – don’t toot while you’re mid-overtake. Also, maybe this is just me, but I’m not sure I have the finesse to pull off a friendly toot reliably – I have a horror of aiming for “toot” but accidentally achieving “get out of my way”      

[wycombewheeler]

HoarseMann wrote:

(image screenshot copyright Ashley Neal, use under critical review exemption)…

looking at this screenshot there is no issue overtaking two abreast cyclists. I doubt overtaking single file cyclists while passing oncoming traffic would be safe.

So what does singling out gain?

[HoarseMann]

Yep, I agree. I’m not 100%

Yep, I agree. I’m not 100% against a toot on the horn in the situation you describe, I just don’t think it was warranted in this particular scenario.

[Bungle_52]

In my opinion the reason for

In my opinion the reason for riding 2 abreast is to get the cars to slow down before overtaking thus reducing potential damage (to me). Once they slow down I move into single file as soon as I think it’s safe to overtake. Very occcasionally I don’t notice the car behind and a friendly toot is much appreciated. I’m ashamed to admit that aggressive use of the horn just winds me up and the move to single file is much delayed as a result.

[HoarseMann]

Yep, I do really think the

Yep, I do really think the problem is Ashley hasn’t got much experience cycling, he says so here… https://youtu.be/J9RJfhVVe2A?t=33

I don’t think he quite gets defensive cycling techniques and just sees agressive/arrogant rather than assertive riding.

[Awavey]

absolutely, agree with that,

absolutely, agree with that, and I do the same because I know what being passed at speed feels like. I think thats the different perspective we have as regular road cyclists in this setup, that perhaps Ashley as an occasional rider, I think ? doesnt understand as well.

if Im one of those cyclists in that example Id be getting annoyed he wasnt passing me on a perfectly clear road, which is something Ive noticed since the HC changes, people sit behind you for a lot longer on some roads when they could easily overtake you, if they are sensible about it, but then they get frustrated waiting and still mess it up.

[HoarseMann]

If we ignore this video, as

If we ignore this video, as there was easily 1.5m, probably over 2m and he’d already slowed, and just think of the situation you give…

If it’s a 50mph road and only 1.5m distance is available when cyclists are two abreast, it means either a car should slow to 30mph or the cyclists should single out.

I would normally slow to 40mph or less when passing a cyclist anyway. Speed limits are based on an absolute maximum and not suitable for all conditions, I take cyclists in the road as one of those conditions where the maximum is not appropriate (although that’s just me, it’s not stated anywhere like it is now for passing horses).

So, when there is light traffic, to me it seems like singling out is more trouble for the cyclist than slowing down is for the driver.

With traffic approaching that quickly, the cyclists probably wouldn’t have time to single out anyway before the car had to slow. So that means you would have to ride singled out all the time, then you lose the benefit of preventing dangerous close passes that riding two abreast gives.

[Awavey]

for sure, albeit on a 50mph

for sure, albeit on a 50mph road youd be expecting to be travelling quicker than 30mph in a car on it, so its almost the starting point you are looking for that “more than” 1.5m in the  overtake to begin, hes picked 2m which fair enough he doesnt need to strictly, and when he slows to below 30mph, he could have gone for 1.5m instead.

but I kind of got the general point he was covering, even if its not perfectly visually demonstrated by the situation in the video, and even if I dont necessarily agree with all the points he made about the cyclists in it.

the video he posted today about his learner overtaking a cyclist felt alot more fraught and Im not convinced they got a 1.5m gap.

[HoarseMann]

mdavidford wrote:

Maybe, but the cyclists pictured are clearly riding along in their own little bubbles…

Shields up! 

They do seem to be chatting away, but then perhaps they were not concerned about the amount of space available for an overtake.

I did have a look at the location, it’s the A506, which sounds like a major route, but it runs parallel to the M58. So unless there’s a delay on the motorway, it’s likely to be very light with traffic.

I’d love to look that relaxed when cycling. I’m a bag of nerves most of the time, hypervigilant for the inevitable idiot driver of the day to appear.

[HoarseMann]

I think Ashley misspoke there

I think Ashley misspoke there, the 2m rule got dropped. The HWC says ‘more than’ 1.5m when passing at speeds over 30mph. It’s based on the vehicle speed, not the limit applied to the road, which I think he’s misunderstood too.

It’s also just a guide. Nobody can be expected to judge that distance accurately.

[IanMSpencer]

Was Ashley driving? Quite a

Was Ashley driving? Quite a lot of his videos are from submissions. Some of his talking to camera stuff surprises me – pointless giving attention to making a video while driving on the highway. It’s a bad habit introduced by the likes of the BBC and I am struggling to see how it is different from hands free mobile phone use which is acknowledged to be problematic – I think it is probably worse as he is trying to concentrate on a take.

[mdavidford]

MiserableBastard wrote:

We have ears, cars have engine & tyre etc noise.

Maybe, but the cyclists pictured are clearly riding along in their own little bubbles…

[Awavey]

but I think the point he was

but I think the point he was making is the guidance says give 2m clearance because of the speed of the road/overtake, and that road space isnt there, now thats a  limitation of the new guidance being applied to roads which are never going to have 2m space.

and I dont agree the cyclists should single out just because he is sitting behind them, especially when he says even if it was a single cyclist he’d probably not have overtaken any sooner anyway.

plus I dont think the use of the horn was necessary, helpful or warranted, I can well imagine the cyclists hand signal for “acknowledgement of the safe pass” was more likely a “wtf was that for!!!” reaction.

also they were probably in deep discussion, rather than merely chatting about other stuff, about why on a clear road he wasnt overtaking them, because as long as he goes fully in the other carriageway, Id certainly be happy with a pass like that, even at 50mph if its less than 2m. and not like the 60mph overtake I got which was within 0,5m on a similar road yesterday.

also whats that thing about the rider on the outside needs to have lights pn, in the daylight ??

[Author]

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