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Disengaging with close passers

Just been the victim of a road rage attack (I'm fine, and, more importantly, so is the bike).

Had a head-on close pass on a narrow country lane at well over 50mph (its a NSL road) which unsurprisingly caused me to yell out (I think it was F*** sake, or possibly something blasphemous).

Cycled on my way only to have the driver turn round, pull alongside, and force me to stop. Following a continued exchange of viewpoints I tried to cycle off, only to be shoved off into the ditch. At that point the driver left whilst I checked the bike over and sorted my bleeding elbow.

Got me thinking - literally all I did to provoke that was to (a) exist and (b) yell out when he'd almost killed me. If I hadn't yelled at him there'd have been no afters, just another one to add the list. I don't run cameras because I can't be doing with all the charging and downloading of yet another device in a life I'm trying to make more device-free.

So I'm sat here wondering what I could have done differently. My partner's now concerned about COVID-19 risk (yelling at each other for 5 minutes isn't going to have helped but hey, adrenaline). Getting it in the ear for engaging but I'm struggling to think how I could have avoided it. I only stopped when he forced me into the verge because I'd rather fall off a stationary bike then be hit from behind on the road. In the middle of nowhere so at that point I couldn't ride off (no way to get away from the wanker with the 2-ton metal box). No way to hop a gate and go cross country because he'd just catch me on foot. All I wanted to do was de-escalate and get away from the situation.

The most annoying thing about all this is that for the previous two hours I'd had a glorious stress-free ride. Zero close passes, lots of give and take - I even had a WVM pull in and flash me through on a narrow lane. But that's the thing, it only takes one. At the moment I feel like it will be a while before I'm back on the road - I've just taken delivery of an MTB and my son prefers riding off-road anyway.

Sorry for the long post, just at a loss to think what I could have done and also worried about the fact it could easily have been the end of me.

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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40 comments

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fenix | 3 years ago
0 likes

You need to report this. He chased after you.

Maybe drive up the road to see if you can identify the car as you say he likely lives up there.

He may well be known to the police.

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kil0ran replied to fenix | 3 years ago
2 likes

Having been through the process previously of trying to engage with my local force, give statements, and so on I just don't have the time. There's no evidence beyond he said/he said. They don't prioritise road crimes without evidence or serious injury - all I've got is some minor cuts and bruises. All I'll end up doing is escalating the situation and I don't want him involved in my life - it's rural and sparsely populated around here and easy to bump into people. Don't need that hassle particularly with everything else that's going on. It would be easy enough for me to find him, just park up on that road and wait for him to head off to work, but what's that going to achieve? 

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Mungecrundle replied to kil0ran | 3 years ago
1 like

Because if you know when he is out, you'll have the best opportunity to post a dozen venomous snakes through his letterbox.

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brooksby replied to Mungecrundle | 3 years ago
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Mungecrundle wrote:

Because if you know when he is out, you'll have the best opportunity to post a dozen venomous snakes through his letterbox.

Excellent...!

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Spokesperson | 3 years ago
1 like

I have been knocked off my bike and injured several times, punched, spat at, doored, you name it, over many years of cycling. Only in this country, however, but never in Ireland, France, Spain or India, where I have cycled extensively and only met with good humour (yes some hairy driving skills!).

I agree with others that swearing is great, but I try to avoid further confrontation. I worry though that it then eats away inside me, so I am talking to a counsellor about my feelings of anger and wanting to clock drivers with my D-Lock.

I am thinking of buying cameras as all my efforts to get the police to take any action in previous incidents failed.

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Dicklexic | 3 years ago
4 likes

Totally understand your feelings on this. I always like to think of myself as a pretty chilled fella, but honestly if I feel someone has put me at risk, or unfairly wronged me or a companion, it's a sudden internal battle to stop the red mist descending and potentially escalating a situation. It's also a perfectly normal response to shout out or react in an animated fashion if you've just experienced a scary situation, and those sort of reflex responses are pretty hard to eliminate. I have definitely benefitted in recent years from trying to acknowledge (either externally or internally) when someone has been decent and 'done the right thing' when I'm out riding. Yes there is the argument that we shouldn't have to 'thank' a driver when they are simply doing what they're supposed to be doing anyway, but it helps me remember that the majority of drivers ARE considerate and will wait for a safe overtaking opportunity for example. I also like to think that in some small way, me waving thanks to that driver who passed nice and wide, or the one that waited for me at the side road instead of pulling out will go on their journey thinking about that 'polite' cyclist, and just maybe they will be that bit more considerate with the next one they pass. This could all be complete fanciful bollox of course but hey, it helps me stay calmer and appreciate my cycling for the right reasons, so it's good enough for me.

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kil0ran replied to Dicklexic | 3 years ago
3 likes

Over lockdown cyclists have undoubtedly become a more common sight on the roads around here. And by cyclists I mean everyone from the lycra brigade (guilty m'lud) to families on BSOs with no helmets to Doreen out on her '70s vintage Raleigh Shopper. Overall, I've seen improved driver behaviour around cyclists too - to the point I've resorted to waving people through, and getting thumbs ups and indicator flashes to say thank you. As someone said in this thread there are drivers, cyclists, and wankers and my perception is that there has been far less of the latter. Which makes what happened to me all the more disappointing. There are moments in your life and your riding where you think "wow, if I'd left 5 seconds earlier, or pushed harder up that hill, I'd be dead now" and that's what this incident was like. In fact, if I hadn't slowed down further up the descent to give way to some other road users I'd have met this guy on a much narrower section and the outcome might have been different. Likewise, if I hadn't taken a drinks break earlier than expected I would never have met him. Small margins sometimes. And I've known that throughout my life and riding - I recall a motorcyclist friend of mine who died in a classic wrong place, wrong time incident the odds for which were so vanishingly tiny it made no sense.

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Dicklexic replied to kil0ran | 3 years ago
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There's no doubt in my mind that we all have 'sliding doors' moments constantly, but that most of the time we are blisfully unaware of them. It's incidents like yours that reinforce the feeling that sometimes our entire lives, and those of our friends and family could have been completely altered, were it not for the sake of a few seconds delay or an apparently insignificant decision or choice.

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LetsBePartOfThe... | 3 years ago
3 likes

I really understand your emotions. You have just been the victim of criminal threatening behaviour.

I am learning about myself that no matter how in the right I am, no matter how smart I am, and no matter how tough I am....any confrontations never have a winner. I still swear at close-passers and other drivers who put me in danger: it is completely instinctive due to the speed that events unfold. They also need to know about the danger they are causing. But if they don't continue on their way, then there are normally a few seconds before any next chapter begins. This is the time I make myself take stock. If there is absolutely no other option than to fight for my safety then I would do exactly that - and without restraint. But there has never been such a case, as usually there is another option - and that is to back down. It is a hard decision for me to have had come to ( I'm 6ft 3in ) but if necessary, I will now even actually apologise to someone who has nearly run me over, if they come back for afters which is looking to turn physical. By this time they already know I found their driving unacceptable - shoving my point down their throat further won't add much. I'm not going to jail for something I didn't invite. I'm not going to take injuries simply for the winning of my point. What I most want is to be out of there; away from this person who is not a part of my life; and to be back on my bike. And the quickest route to that for me is to say: "sorry sir ( madam ? ) I shouldn't have sworn at you". And I make sure there is no sarcasm present in there either. I have found it is very difficult for the assailant to keep building up to their boiling point once I have conceded in such a way. It sounds really counter-intuitive to back down. But 2 minutes later I am back on my bike doing what I love ( with only a small bitter taste in my mouth ). Rather than spending hours in A and E, or giving a statement to police about my own actions. Also I know I won morally by not retaliating. And I can choose to untwine from that person mentally.

The assailant can still be brought to account by reporting to the police. Camera footage is obviously helpful - but people got charged before action-cameras were invented. So don't be fobbed off if you wish to take things further - even if only to prevent it happening to the next person. 

I really believe there is nothing to be gained by fighting at the roadside unless the assailant is hellbent on murder. I will instead take a tactical loss to my pride, not a strategic loss to my standards or my liberty.

Keep safe.

 

 

 

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Gary's bike channel | 3 years ago
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:{

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Gary's bike channel | 3 years ago
1 like

when you get into a road rage situation, you'll get the flight or fight response. Its almost impossible to ignore it. It has caused many people to fight in the street over something minor, whereas if they were walking with others they would never dream of attacking someone they didnt know. You will likely meet other wankers on the road, who deem cyclists frail, feeble or to up their own arses to get a car. Don't respond to them. Dont stop. Get away and never let them back you into a corner. What i do is not this, because of my past experiences. I will admit, i spent 6 years of my life in prison, for assault. Someone was attacking his ex girlfriend, slamming her into the wall, so i intervened, especially as she was my work collegeue. It didnt end well. I got sent down for GBH and he went to hospital, into intensive care. Nowadays, if i cycle and come across an idiot who tries to attacked or rage with me, i wont back down, i will try to de escalate the situation, by saying to them'' i understand you are angrym, but stop for ten seconds, and just breathe, so we can sort this out.'' By then, the flight or fight response has subsided somewhat, and they may be inclined to listen to you, rather than just shouting abuse and fighting you. Its part of our evolution sadly. The bloke in the photo is one i got into a fight with, over a shared path, and it would never happen if we were just two blokes walking through a town. But put one person in a car, and the other on a bicycle, and the responses of both sides completely change. 

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brooksby replied to Gary's bike channel | 3 years ago
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"Get off my road"???? 

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kil0ran replied to brooksby | 3 years ago
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This was basically the gist of the argument in my incident. Treating the speed limit as a target, not a maximum. "Road's wide enough for my car at that speed, I don't care about you". All this despite the fact that there's no pavements, high verges and it's a popular walking route.

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Dangerous Dan | 3 years ago
3 likes

What you experienced was an assault. There is no other way to describe it.  I read your question as how could you have defused the situation enough to get out of it. The key is to not escalate the situation. No matter what, don't engage your assailant in an angry argument. It will never end well.

There is a practice we used in the Fire / Rescue Brigade I was in which is called "Verbal Judo".  There is a book by that name which was written by the late George Thompson, PhD, who was a professor of English turned police officer.

It may not be the best written book ever, and he was very full of himself, but the principals are sound: in a confrontation attempt to deflect the agressor verbaly and get them to see that there is another side to the conflict.  An example of this is described in this article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/promoting-empathy-your-teen/201210/how-use-verbal-judo

Your angry driver might respond to something like, "look, I understand that this road is too narrow and the council should make it wide enough for two vehicles to pass safely, but until they do that we all need to be careful of other users on the road." If you are lucky, they may go off on a rant about "the effing council."

I don't know if you have a Methamphetamine problem in that area but if you do, nothing short of overwhelming force will work.  Some people under the influence of alcohol will behave the same way.  They are agitated and angry.  We always got police on scene when dealing with these people. You need to get away from those people as fast as you can.

Some people are just plain "bat shit crazy", as in paranoid schizophrenic.  They can be deflected, but don't ever try to play them.  They know that you can't hear the voices in their head.  Also, they are very rarely violent.

If you can, get away from them.  If not, deflect them.  An example: my daughter works in a Psychiatric Emergency Services unit in a big city hospital.  She is about 5'4" and not physically intimidating.  An an aggitated patient was complainiing that someone was trying to cut their hair.  She got them a towel to wrap over their hair.  They calmed down. The non-existance of the person trying to cut their hair should never be the issue.

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nniff | 3 years ago
4 likes

I hate things like this.  It brings out the worst in me - fortunately only in theory not practice.  I can't help thinking that idiots who behave like that do so because they're confident that they're not going to get a violent response, and mostly they're right.  All you need is for them to fall and hit their head and it's game over for you - a nasty role-reversal in which you have nowhere to go.  No 'SMIDSY', no 'he wobbled out in front of me', no 'the sun was in my eyes', or 'he wasn't wearing Hi-viz or a helmet'.  You pushed him and he died.  Criminal record for ever. Wife, family, job, all stuffed.

All you can do is shrug it off, and acknowledge the good when you see it.  But, dear god, it's hard.  I followed a van down a country lane yesterday.  He was slow and careful.  He passed several on-coming cyclists carefully.  He and I followed several others for a while.  When he stopped, I stopped too and thanked him for driving carefully.  All one can do.

Commuting in town, I have cameras.  That got beyond a joke.

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kil0ran replied to nniff | 3 years ago
2 likes

This is the worrying thing, isn't it? As I said below I'm a big powerful guy and I'm conscious that if I lamped him I could have done serious damage. Too many one punch stories out there. But by being passive and trying to disengage I ended up down a bank in a ditch. The only solution is to not provoke the response in the first place.

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bikeman01 replied to nniff | 3 years ago
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I ride with a policeman. We have our fair share of arseholes in cars on our group rides but rarely do they stop and get out of their vehicles. On one occasion a guy stopped the group and got all mr angry. What I observed from our group copper stayed with me. He moved in real close to the guy and faced off his rant until he calmed down. He made no attempt to calm the guy he just let him know that he wasn't going to back down. Afterwards I asked him why he appeared to be escallating the situation and he said most people give up when you don't back down but make it clear that you're ready to fight them. By getting in real close they can't hit you with any force and you're close enough to trip them down if you need to. 

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kil0ran | 3 years ago
3 likes

Thank you everyone for your responses to this, it's really helped me acknowledge that I'm the victim, and that sadly it's not uncommon. Will be off the roads for a while (mainly until my partner is less worried about me riding on the road - best I don't tell her about hurling the MTB down singletrack then  3 

I'm also going to experiment with only acknowledging positive behaviours. That was working really well for the previous two hours of the ride. It will be tough to control an involuntary/adrenaline-fuelled reaction but lets see if it's possible. 

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Daveyraveygravey | 3 years ago
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Sorry to read what happened, it is a part of riding a bike in the UK these days though, and has been for at leat 30 years.  Nobody in a car thinks they are ever wrong, especially when it comes to a "pleb" on a bike.  I react every time to every close pass or bit of bad driving, I have toned it down in the last couple of years, I'm even trying not to swear, but it's hard when "Cnut" covers it perfectly.

I'm not a fighter so on the rare occasion it gets to that level, I calm it down if I haven't already taken to my heels.  I can't let it go though, if you gesticulate at a close pass in my experience every car after that gives you an exaggerated amount of room.

I've tried a camera, but it's a cheap one.  It only records about 70 minutes and most of my commutes are more than that one way.  It's also blurry and under trees it can be hard to make out reg plates anyway.  Even if you get good footage you have to edit it, and remember to clear the memory card before you go out again.

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Shades | 3 years ago
2 likes

Cameras.  I'd rather not be sitting at home with a busted bike and body (not injured badly enough that I'm considered a priority case by the NHS) with the police telling me they can't find who it was and there's nothing they can do, as opposed to them telling me they'd analysed the video and arrested the driver.  The cost of a front and back camera will pale into insignificance when you start replacing bikes and fixing yourself (my Chiropractor charges £50 a session).  Sort of insurance, or spend money to save money.  I don't download bad passes, but anything deliberate and aggressive and the video would be straight to the police.

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BIRMINGHAMisaDUMP | 3 years ago
4 likes

I totally empathize. I try every day to avoid confrontation. And it's difficult to stay calm. The one thing i do know is that when i get into a confrontation it determines my mood for the rest of the day (i.e.bad, angry, frustrated) and i even spend the night tossing and turning thinking about the bastard who cut me up and the injustice of it. It's never worth that. A finger on my left hand is permanently dislocated because i punched a car so hard once. So now i use a camera. I just feel 'safer'. If anyone starts shouting at me I unclip the camera from the mount and point it at them and keep my gob shut. The camera is like a cross to a vampire - it backs them off. 

Bloody tragic that it's like this - imagine if pedestrians had to carry cameras to record hostile road user behaviour towards them. There would be a national outcry. 

 

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brooksby replied to BIRMINGHAMisaDUMP | 3 years ago
1 like

I'm sorry you had such a sh!tty experience, kiloran, and glad it worked out OK (rather than escalating).

I have suspected a lot of it is the attitude of "how dare you criticise me / tell me what to do!" (or, in Monty Python: "Don't you oppress me!").

People just don't like being told what they should do or what they can't do, or have their behaviour or activities criticised in any way, shape, or form.  This is an attitude which seems to be becoming more and more prevalent.  'They' don't even like it if the critic is an Authority Figure, so you can imagine how they start feeling when the critic is (in their eyes) "just a civilian" (or, worse, "just a cyclist").

I don't use a camera.  Will not use one.  I agree with commenters below that it's easier to just be a leaf on the wind and let it all just flow...

Final point, total agreement with Lukas's point:

Lukas wrote:

imagine if pedestrians had to carry cameras to record hostile road user behaviour towards them. There would be a national outcry. 

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David9694 | 3 years ago
1 like

Reg no, make (Audi?) description of assailant, photos of injuries? You can't not report this! Chances are your man is pretty practised at this sort of thing, so may be known to police.

FWIW, always intone to myself in times of stress "you don't know who they are or what they're capable of". 

In an interesting point - get wild on him as he stops and opens the door but I think on balance all you "knee him in the stomach" posters have been watching too many movies - glorious though it would be #channels inner Rod liddle# to subdue him with a couple of blows from a Topeak and head off with his keys in your pocket. 

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kil0ran replied to David9694 | 3 years ago
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Sadly no point. No evidence of the whole incident as I'm not one to whip out my phone and start filming people. My local force don't prosecute without video or independent third parties and even though I was assaulted they'd still treat it as a driving offence. Given how rural it is where it happened (the only reason to drive that road is if you live there) it will be dead easy to find him - there's about ten houses up the end of the road before it turns into farm tracks. Which proves how much of an idiot he is - for all he knew I could have been as much of a psycho as him.

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Fifth Gear | 3 years ago
2 likes

I've found an increasing number of oncoming drivers will pass on single track lanes without slowing down. As a result my normal procedure now is to move out towards the centre of the road and apply the brakes if the driver appears to be approaching too fast. The driver then has to make the choice to slow/stop or kill me. It works every time as you can tell by the fact I am still alive to post this comment and it has not resulted in any arguments or problems yet. I always run cameras which are an unfortunate necessity.

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Bungle_52 replied to Fifth Gear | 3 years ago
1 like

I've always done this as well but recently had an incident where the driver didn't slow down and had a very near miss at speed. This, and other incidents which are happening nearly every ride now, are making me feel a lot more vulnerable than I used to.

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bikeman01 | 3 years ago
1 like

What could you have done differently?

Hit the arsehole as soon as he walked up to you - no engagement just wack him as soon as he's got out of his car. Then for good measure, chuck his keys and ride off.

Attack is the best form of defence and if you can get in while they still think you're a going to be a pushover so much the easier.

Of course it may not pan out exactly like this but you get the idea. 

Alternatively, you could have not shouted and continued to let the guy be a cunt.

Neither option is entirely satisfactory.

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0-0 replied to bikeman01 | 3 years ago
0 likes

I totally agree about getting your retaliation in first.
If they come running at you, you run at them and stick your knee or leg in their stomach, as you collide.

Don't worry about the "who started it first" thing. Remember someone has nearly killed/badly injured you by reckless driving. Then they got out of their car in a threatening manner.
You feared for your safety etc.

Also get front and rear cameras to record all your rides.

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Dicklexic replied to bikeman01 | 3 years ago
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bikeman01 wrote:

Then for good measure, chuck his keys and ride off.

 

I just LOVE the idea of chucking someones keys into the undergrowth if they're being a dick. It really has crossed my mind on a couple of occasions, but then I wonder where you would stand legally. Technically you've not stolen or damaged their property, just relocated it! The idea of them having to rummage around in a rage trying to find their key as I trundle off does make me chuckle, although in reality I know it is not the right way to react, and it almost certainly wouldn't de-escalate the situation!

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kil0ran replied to Dicklexic | 3 years ago
0 likes

Take them, ride off with them, hand them in at the nearest police station along with your statement and any camera footage

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