[CygnusX1]

https://news.sky.com/story/uber-suspends-self-driving-car-testing-after-cyclist-is-killed-11297320

Updated with more links

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/19/uber_self_driving_car_fatal_crash/

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/19/uber-self-driving-car-kills-woman-arizona-tempe

https://www.bicycling.com/culture/woman-killed-self-driving-uber

 

Topic

[hawkinspeter]

From what I’ve heard about

From what I’ve heard about Uber, I have complete confidence in their ethics and I’m absolutely positive that they’ll completely fix their software before trying anything else.

Oops: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/08/uber-flying-car-prototype.html

[brooksby]

https://www.theguardian.com

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/08/ubers-self-driving-car-saw-the-pedestrian-but-didnt-swerve-report

From the Grauniad: “Although the car’s sensors detected Herzberg, its software which decides how it should react was tuned too far in favour of ignoring objects in its path which might be “false positives” (such as plastic bags), according to a report from the Information. This meant the modified Volvo XC90 did not react fast enough.

“The report also said the human safety driver was not paying close enough attention to intervene before the vehicle struck the pedestrian.”

[hawkinspeter]

Uber has now settled out of

Uber has now settled out of court with the family: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/03/uber-settles-with-family-of-woman-killed-by-self-driving-car-avoids-lawsuit/

[hawkinspeter]

The NYTimes as some info on

The NYTimes has some info on just how bad the Uber cars are: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/technology/uber-self-driving-cars-arizona.html

NYTimes wrote:

The cars were having trouble driving through construction zones and next to tall vehicles, like big rigs. And Uber’s human drivers had to intervene far more frequently than the drivers of competing autonomous car projects.

Waymo, formerly the self-driving car project of Google, said that in tests on roads in California last year, its cars went an average of nearly 5,600 miles before the driver had to take control from the computer to steer out of trouble. As of March, Uber was struggling to meet its target of 13 miles per “intervention” in Arizona, according to 100 pages of company documents obtained by The New York Times and two people familiar with the company’s operations in the Phoenix area but not permitted to speak publicly about it.

Yet Uber’s test drivers were being asked to do more — going on solo runs when they had worked in pairs.

 

[ktache]

Isn’t that how Oldmixte

Isn’t that how Oldmixte checks his speedo?

[hawkinspeter]

grumpyoldcyclist wrote:

I’ve seen the video too.

So corporate manslaughter for Uber for having a system that cannot detect pedestrians and potentially is speeding. Already banned in California as it was known that it didn’t detect pedestrians. Also death by dangerous driving, or US equivalent, for the so called driver.

That sounds a bit harsh on the poor scapegoat/driver. I’d class it as careless rather than dangerous as the speed although over the maximum limit was only 10% (38mph in a 35mph zone) over which is often taken as the rough accuracy of speedometers. Also the driver wasn’t doing a manoeuvre that is dangerous (e.g. being on the wrong side of the road – for the U.S. anyway) but was not paying attention which I’d class as careless (though it generally is dangerous too).

I don’t know what the equivalent U.S. laws are though, so it’ll be interesting to see how it’s dealt with.

[grumpyoldcyclist]

I’ve seen the video too.

I’ve seen the video too.

So corporate manslaughter for Uber for having a system that cannot detect pedestrians and potentially is speeding. Already banned in California as it was known that it didn’t detect pedestrians. Also death by dangerous driving, or US equivalent, for the so called driver.

[brooksby]

DrJDog wrote:

CygnusX1 wrote:

So much for having a human operator behind the wheel to take over. RIP sister.

I’ve seen the video, and the driver was paying more attention to whatever system information the car was providing her than to the information out the windscreen. Definitely not how I would want a test to be run. Would want a driver to watch the road, and either a passenger looking at the data, or a check of the data afterwards. Uber cutting corners horribly.

I read that they say that they usually do have two humans on board, for precisely that reason. Why they didn’t in this case, I can’t say…?

[Boatsie]

Cows are beautiful. Had 1
Cows are beautiful. Had 1 walk over and lick my wound about 20 years ago. Just a paddock. Hadn’t realized they’re efficient cleaners until then when a big sandpaper like moist extension of a beautiful girl licked me. Lol.
Most people are just idiots without care too assist others of other species. Freaked me out a bit when regularly garbage collecting along river. Anyway dolphins were really nice, circling me and my dog (shark bait/smell) while we swam across the 12 fathom deep channel.
She shouldn’t be punished, her thoughts must be rating abnormalities. I hope they send her to a dance school such that she may clear tell regards of uber robot later.
I’m high as a kite now that I’m riding everyday and walking my ride less days. Finally, a taxi driver that speaks proper nothing.

[hawkinspeter]

Yorkshire wallet wrote:

Yorkshire wallet wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Boatsie wrote:

I read not long ago that in not so long they’ll have driverless cars capable of navigation in India; what road rules. Read was about throwing everything out the window with learning capable algorithms to copy cat the locals.

Indian roads would be an easy environment to code for.

    if vehicle.size() <= obstruction.size() :

        avoid()

I wonder if cow comes before human in the choices of who to hit?

My neighbour went to India recently and said it really is a dire place as far as any sort of traffic law is concerned. Some guy got run over but he must have been of the wrong caste or something as nobody wanted to help in he was just left in the road! China seems a great places as well, where you go back to finish the job if you knock people down, as the fine for killing is less than the bill for care.

We may think we live in a dangerous place as regards cycling but there are plently of worse places in the world involving cars.

 

 

 

 

Cows would get priority – they’re bigger and more sacred.

[DrJDog]

CygnusX1 wrote:

So much for having a human operator behind the wheel to take over. RIP sister.

 

I’ve seen the video, and the driver was paying more attention to whatever system information the car was providing her than to the information out the windscreen. Definitely not how I would want a test to be run. Would want a driver to watch the road, and either a passenger looking at the data, or a check of the data afterwards. Uber cutting corners horribly.

[Anonymous]

hawkinspeter wrote:

Boatsie wrote:

I read not long ago that in not so long they’ll have driverless cars capable of navigation in India; what road rules. Read was about throwing everything out the window with learning capable algorithms to copy cat the locals.

Indian roads would be an easy environment to code for.

    if vehicle.size() <= obstruction.size() :

        avoid()

I wonder if cow comes before human in the choices of who to hit?

My neighbour went to India recently and said it really is a dire place as far as any sort of traffic law is concerned. Some guy got run over but he must have been of the wrong caste or something as nobody wanted to help in he was just left in the road! China seems a great places as well, where you go back to finish the job if you knock people down, as the fine for killing is less than the bill for care.

We may think we live in a dangerous place as regards cycling but there are plently of worse places in the world involving cars.

 

 

 

 

[yourealwaysbe]

hawkinspeter wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Oh dear! Looks like the backup driver wasn’t watching the road

I guess there was a reason Uber refused to pay the $150 license fee for self-driving cars, instead arguing as a matter of “principle” that they were semi-autonomous.

To some extent her job description is to sit there paying attention for hours on end, and if she deviates or trusts the car too much, she takes the blame.

[brooksby]

hawkinspeter wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Oh dear! Looks like the backup driver wasn’t watching the road: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/03/video-uber-driver-looks-down-for-seconds-before-fatal-crash/

ArsTechnica wrote:

Tempe police also released internal dash cam footage showing the car’s driver, Rafaela Vasquez, in the seconds before the crash. Vasquez can be seen looking down toward her lap for almost five seconds before glancing up again. Almost immediately after looking up, she gets a look of horror on her face as she realizes the car is about to hit Herzberg.

I saw that this morning, and it kind of demonstrates the problem with the “not quite AI” self-driving cars: they work on the presumption that the onboard human will be ready to take over in an emergency, yet if the onboard human wanted to do that then surely they’d just be, you know, driving the car?

Second point from that footage – do Uber self-driving cars not use “full-beam” headlights on long straight empty roads at night?

[hawkinspeter]

Oh dear! Looks like the
Oh dear! Looks like the backup driver wasn’t watching the road:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/03/video-uber-driver-looks-down-for-seconds-before-fatal-crash/

ArsTechnica wrote:

Tempe police also released internal dash cam footage showing the car’s driver, Rafaela Vasquez, in the seconds before the crash. Vasquez can be seen looking down toward her lap for almost five seconds before glancing up again. Almost immediately after looking up, she gets a look of horror on her face as she realizes the car is about to hit Herzberg.

[Author]

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