Stupidly steep hills: could you ride up a 50% gradient?; ‘Embarrassing, victim-blaming’ road safety campaign criticised for focusing on cycling ‘skills and PPE’; Climate change councillor calls active travel campaigner a ‘clown’ + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
‘Embarrassing’ road safety campaign criticised for focusing on the dangers of cyclists ‘not having the correct skills, knowledge and PPE’
We are pleased to be supporting the #NPCC2Wheels campaign. Over the next two weeks, we will place an additional focus on the safety of cyclists and motorcyclists to raise awareness about the dangers of not having the correct skills, knowledge and personal protection equipment. pic.twitter.com/Ph6p9EBaHQ
— NI Road Policing and Safety (@NIRoadPolicing) April 4, 2022
While their new uniforms may be a rip-off of 2013-era Team Sky, the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) seems to have adopted the confused and outdated tactics of Movistar when it comes ensuring the safety of cyclists on the roads.
A cycling and motorcycling safety campaign endorsed by the PSNI yesterday has come in for criticism online after Twitter users pointed out that it is solely focuses on how cyclists can better protect themselves, rather than trying to change motorists’ behaviour, with a number of cyclists describing the campaign as evidence of ‘victim-blaming’.
Organised by the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC), the ‘2 Wheels’ campaign focuses on the safety of cyclists and motorcyclists. While other police forces used the campaign last year to raise motorists’ awareness of the danger of close passes and careless driving, as well as educating riders on how to stay safe, the PSNI appears to have forgotten about that crucial first part.
In a tweet that was accompanied by an strange, low-quality illustration (don’t worry, it’s not your eyes), Northern Ireland’s Road Policing and Safety unit wrote: “Over the next two weeks, we will place an additional focus on the safety of cyclists and motorcyclists to raise awareness about the dangers of not having the correct skills, knowledge and personal protection equipment.”
Unsurprisingly, the campaign’s focus on instructing vulnerable road users instantly backfired, with Cycling Twitter uniting to condemn the tweet as “embarrassing” and indicative of “car blindness”.
Graham Finlayson responded to the campaign by tweeting: “Drivers. The danger to me when I’m riding my bike is drivers, in oversized cars, on their phones. Police their behaviour instead of victim blaming. A helmet doesn’t help if you get run over by a 4×4.”
Patrick Eakin echoed Graham’s sentiments: “Motor vehicles. It’s motor vehicles that cause the injuries. Every day, killing five people in the UK. Focus on them.”
Belfast bike rider wrote: “Wow – let’s talk to cyclists about how it’s their fault that car drivers kill them.”
Tom Flood said: “Same old weak and backwards messaging but this time they can’t even be bothered to use a hi-res/legible version of a terrible communication. This is how little we care. Checking boxes.”
“Two weeks instructing cyclists and motorcyclists on road danger. They must kill 50+ people on NI roads every year,” Brian Shannon sardonically noted.
I hope @NIRoadPolicing will have a word with the electricity pole about “the dangers of not having the correct skills, knowledge and personal protection equipment.”https://t.co/Gy5ssTr1lf
— TBSteve (@TBStevesPix) April 4, 2022
Just wondering, what personal protective equipment has a proven track record of protecting cyclists from dangerous drivers, especially those on mobile phones, speeding, close passing etc etc etc? Don’t you think targeting the ACTUAL problem would do more for road safety?
— Peter Smith (@Pinarello_Pete) April 4, 2022
I mean…given the responses…is there ANYONE at HQ, popping into the Super’s office to say “I think we may have miscalculated here, Chief…” pic.twitter.com/x8WRgFlxGP
— CycleBelfast (@BelfastCycle) April 4, 2022
And, finally, someone got around to analysing THAT image:
Why is there a woman cycling in a trench? Why is the horse on the wrong side of the road? And why is it mauve? Why are the women super hot and in miniskirts? Why is there a 1989 Sierra Cosworth? Why is it all happening in the shadow of Mt Kilimanjaro?
— Cycling Folkie 🌳 (@VeganCyclist4) April 4, 2022
Climate change councillor calls active travel campaigner a ‘clown’
Cannot believe you typed this and thought it a good idea to send.
Dover is hilly. 5 mins in a car is likely 2-4 miles (not a reasonable walk for most). Less than half the population have a bike (mostly the young).
Dover is REALLY struggling with traffic issues you clown.
— Chris Vinson (@CllrChrisVinson) April 4, 2022
Now we all love a good Twitter spat on the live blog…
Well, yesterday active travel campaigner Adam Bronkhorst was on the receiving end of some pointed online comments from a Conservative councillor, after he questioned why locals stuck in gridlock in Dover – which is currently experiencing increased congestion due to a shortage of ferries – couldn’t just walk or cycle for short trips.
Chris Vinson, who is the portfolio holder for climate change at Dover District Council, replied to Bronkhorst’s tweet: “Cannot believe you typed this and thought it a good idea to send.
“Dover is hilly. 5 mins in a car is likely 2-4 miles (not a reasonable walk for most). Less than half the population have a bike (mostly the young).
“Dover is REALLY struggling with traffic issues you clown.”
Nothing worse than being called a clown on Twitter in 2022, really…
Some were quick to criticise Vinson’s comments and his apparent ‘pro-car’ agenda, with the councillor – who also works as head of external communications for Southeastern Railway – giving as good as he got in return:
Hi @DoverDC – this is your cabinet member for climate change, abusing someone who suggested that traffic issues could be ameliorated by some people walking or cycling.
Not sure you’ve got the best person for the job, there.
— Simon 🪗 (@mzdt) April 4, 2022
You do realise the issue in Dover right now is HGV congestion because of delays at the port? His initial comment was foolish massively insensitive to those Dover residents – like me – who’ve been stuck for hours in traffic in recent days. Nothing to do with bikes or walking.
— Chris Vinson (@CllrChrisVinson) April 4, 2022
The issues Dover is currently experiencing are longstanding and largely driven by the need for effective infrastructure and management of HGVs through the port and strategic road network – I’m a big supporter of cycling, but it isn’t the solution here. I wish it was that simple.
— Chris Vinson (@CllrChrisVinson) April 4, 2022
Absolutely – and there’s loads of cycling and walking here too, which is great. But it’s not suitable for all, and doesn’t solve the issues with HGV-congestion at the port, sadly.
— Chris Vinson (@CllrChrisVinson) April 4, 2022
However, others – including local cyclists – defended the councillor’s remarks:
Dover is also an absolute nightmare to cycle, for what it’s worth. Hardly any lanes. The Dour path is narrow and busy with walkers. Folkestone Road as a designated cycling route! Yes it’s hilly but ebikes substantially mitigate that. But it’s only a town for the bravest riders. pic.twitter.com/25jgRSNo3a
— Jon (@ormondroyd) April 4, 2022
We’re at risk here of conflating the acute problem we’ve seen this week (huge numbers of lorries being poured unmanaged into Dover on the wrong routes) and the active travel situation in Dover, which is chronically bad but would not have materially made an impact this week.
— Jon (@ormondroyd) April 4, 2022
And on it went, with the pair trading tweeted virtual blows once again, like an online Rocky and Apollo:
Apologies if you found my comment insulting but I stand by my view that your initial tweet was extremely insensitive and wholly impractical for most under the circumstances.
Feel free to check our record on active transport and EV public transport locally if you have the time.
— Chris Vinson (@CllrChrisVinson) April 4, 2022
I have one! They’re great. But sadly they won’t solve the HGV congestion around Dover.
And I know that while some can, many people can’t walk or cycle even a relatively short distance. Presenting it as a universal solution on its own isn’t realistic I’m afraid.
— Chris Vinson (@CllrChrisVinson) April 4, 2022
Oh god.
Twitter has decided to eviscerate me for calling out some bloke in Brighton for suggesting the solution to HGV congestion at Dover port is more walking/cycling.
It’s possible to be pro active travel/public transport and STILL think we need to tackle Dover’s roads 🙄
— Chris Vinson (@CllrChrisVinson) April 4, 2022
Oh God, indeed.
One of these things is not like the others…
LibDem Ealing Manifesto, not sure how doing the top one will help the third and fourth one. 🤷♂️ pic.twitter.com/YVNHC7lTpN
— simon johnson (@physrj) April 4, 2022
And as for the last two… pic.twitter.com/g8Mbo0Rx24
— Matthew Marks (@MatthewMarks42) April 4, 2022
At least let the cyclists use the lanes for a week before you start parking in them, eh?
With Salford’s new Liverpool Street cycle lanes only opening for business last week, you’d have assumed that local drivers would allow for a short grace period before they inevitably start parking in them.
But apparently not…
Barely finished and the new Liverpool St. cycle lane is already infected with the car-owner virus. What’s the enforcement strategy here @SalfordCouncil? pic.twitter.com/l215fnZqxa
— Prestwich Pootler 🌱 🚲 🌍 ❄️ 🇪🇺 (@pootlers) April 5, 2022
The Koppenberg? That’s only a wee bump – now THIS is a hill…
This road in Whitby looks close to steepest I’ve ever seen apart from Bamford plus the cobbles make it a killer. Anyone done it? @100Climbs pic.twitter.com/scC9fJcYro
— Paul Johnson (@pdjohnson) April 4, 2022
We were treated over the weekend to a feast of terrifyingly steep cobbled climbs at the Tour of Flanders, but none quite so ferocious as this ridiculous road in Whitby.
Known as the Donkey Track – because that’s the route the poor donkeys were taken on their way to carrying children up and down the beach all day – the road runs parallel to the more famous 199 steps in Whitby, leading up to the abbey and the top of the East Cliff.
Apparently, its gradient is 50 percent, over double the maximum slope of the fearsome Koppenberg in Flanders – and I’m sure the cobbles don’t help much either.
Some foolhardy cyclists have taken it on over the years, with varying degrees of success:
Lady who owned cafe at bottom says many attempts funny to watch them come to a grinding halt.
— Gareth (@THEREDMACHINE) April 5, 2022
I’ve seen a mountain biker go up it. Not within my capabilities… the cobbles are very shiny and slippy and it’s so steep I would fall backwards off the bike (as nearly happened to me on nearby less steep Grosmont on nice tarmac 🤣)
— Richard Lunt 🇺🇦 (@RichardLunt) April 4, 2022
I’ve been at the bottom of it when a couple motor bikes came up to it, one just sailed up no problem, the other was on the steep side, did a wheelie and tipped over😲 took a right chunk out of the cobbles
— Ian Moreton ☺🚴☺🚴 (@moreton_ian) April 5, 2022
Walked it at night with 10 pints on board… does that count?
— Lambretta Clinic (@robert2burns) April 5, 2022
Arkéa–Samsic pro Connor Swift, who was on the attack over the Ronde’s cobbled bergs on Sunday, says he’s only ridden down it, though former Madison Genesis rider Tom Stewart reportedly “made it look easy”.
Came down it on the road bike and that was hard in itself 😂 Wouldn’t fancy going up 😳
— Connor Swift (@SwiftConnor) April 4, 2022
Ah yes mega trip! Of course @mtb_tom rode up it too💪🏻 pic.twitter.com/GmAsZa5oaP
— Connor Swift (@SwiftConnor) April 4, 2022
The thought of cyclists struggling to make their way up stupidly steep hills immediately reminds me of my local leg-breaker, Cornmill, a short and sharp ramp famous for riders comically falling off as they take it on in wet conditions during Dromara Cycling Club’s annual Hilly sportive.
If you’ve got a spare eight minutes (and don’t pretend that you don’t), sit back and enjoy the absolute carnage of the 2012 edition:
Needless to say, I tend to ride past the turn for Cornmill when I’m out for a spin…
What’s the steepest climb near you? Let us know – preferably with a funny video or photo (we all need a laugh) – in the comments!
Stolen Bike: a story for our times
Celebrating a year since my bike got stolen and the wee boy put it on FB marketplace that evening and I stole it back the next day.
— Sarah H (@GooseCG) April 4, 2022
My favourite bit about the saga was the boy’s moonboot. pic.twitter.com/C7kQOhR11A
— Sarah H (@GooseCG) April 4, 2022
Contacted the wee shite all interested. Think I kept my cool pretty well. Also, reader. It is a small frame, the idiot. pic.twitter.com/kbPtsC3WRw
— Sarah H (@GooseCG) April 4, 2022
Thankfully I had fallen off on the ice a couple of weeks before and it had quite a distinctive scratch down the gear stick. Shaft? The bit you change the gears with.
Also my hair was wrapped around the handlebar and Bella’s fur stuck to the frame.
Bingo. It was mine.
— Sarah H (@GooseCG) April 4, 2022
And lo. The bike was mine again.
— Sarah H (@GooseCG) April 4, 2022
Bell Bottom Bracket Blues: Eric Clapton’s old BMX is up for sale (yes, you read that right)
Last week on the blog we featured the staggering number of rock and roll stars who have expressed their love of bikes over the years, from Robert Plant, Mick Jagger and Bono to Madonna, ZZ Top’s Billy Gibbons, Kraftwerk (obviously), David Byrne, Paul Heaton and, ehhh, Richard Coles of the Communards (the cycling vicar – now there’s an idea for an ITV drama).
Well, it also turns out that Derek of Derek and the Dominoes himself, Eric Clapton, was fond of spinning about New York on his BMX in the 1990s (I’m sure that would have been a curious sight…).
The legendary guitarist-turned raving anti-vaxxer bought a bespoke Brooklyn Machine Works 24” hardtail BMX cruiser bike when he was living in the Big Apple and later had it shipped back to London, where he gifted it to the Kings Road streetwear boutique Fly.
The bike was one of only 36 made in collaboration with American clothing and skateboarding brand Supreme and, I have to say, it does look pretty cool. None of the bikes were made available to the public.
Until now – well kind of. Auction house Sotheby’s is selling the bike for an estimated $50,000 to $70,000. Now you’d have to be a massive Cream or BMX fan to part with that kind of money – or perhaps someone with selective memory when it comes to their favourite musicians (Birmingham, 1976, for one horrifying example).
If you want to own a piece of, ahem, rock and roll and cycling history (well maybe not history, but it is something), you only have until 5pm to make an offer.
So far there have been no bids…
“Layla, I’m begging, darling please, Layla, darling won’t buy this bike of mine?”
Alright, that’s enough of that.
Who wins – pro on a cargo bike or local on a pro bike?
Estonian pro and Vuelta a España stage winner Rein Taaramäe is currently training in Rwanda as he prepares to ride the Giro d’Italia next month.
But when the Intermarché-Wanty rider swapped bikes with a local for a spot of match sprinting, there was only going to be one winner:
Rein Taaramäe is back in an action in #Rwanda. A country full of friendly and active people .. why not to do something different during the training and change bikes with a local guy. Who won this challenge? Check from the video 😄👍 #talent #cycling pic.twitter.com/vXjAeWkr21
— Hanna Taaramäe (@HannaTaaramae) April 4, 2022
I think we’ve seen this before somewhere…
Pog to dodge Roubaix
We all got a bit excited yesterday when Tadej Pogačar, fresh from doing everything but win the Tour of Flanders on Sunday, posted a sneaky selfie at the entrance to the Arenberg Trench, perhaps the most infamous cobbled sector at Paris-Roubaix.
Alas, the 23-year-old wasn’t finessing his preparation for the Hell of the North (which takes place in just under two weeks) – instead he was reconning the cobbled sections that will make up 20km of stage five of this year’s Tour de France, which finishes in Arenberg.
While he made the Flemish kaissen look almost silky smooth as he powered around the Ronde, Pog didn’t seem too convinced about his ability to handle the much rougher, more unpredictable pave of northern France:
Tadej on the Belgian news, cycling over the Arenberg cobbles shouting “not for me, not for me!”
Poetic cinema
— Justine (@jus10ld) April 4, 2022
While the UAE Team Emirates rider was bouncing along the pave, video emerged of his angry confrontation with Dylan van Baarle as the pair crossed the line after Sunday’s dramatic finale. Given that we barely ever see the two-time Tour winner flustered never mind lose his cool, you can mark this footage down as something of a collector’s item:
Classic Geraint…
Only Geraint Thomas could nearly crash while cruising in a straight line#Itzulia pic.twitter.com/7I2hi3U5Ql
— Dan Deakins (@DanDeakins) April 5, 2022
Stupidly steep hills: downhill edition
An oldie but a goldie, from the 2011 British University cross-country championships:
BUCS 2011 X.C Carnage! from This Is Sheffield on Vimeo.
Alaphilippe takes first win of the season at the Tour of the Basque Country
World champion Julian Alaphilippe finally broke his duck for 2022 this afternoon, blowing away his rivals on the uphill drag to the finish of stage two of the Tour of the Basque Country in Viana.
It was heartbreak, however, for a quartet of Pro Conti riders – Julen Amezqueta (Caja Rural), Ander Okamika (Burgos-BH), Ibai Azurmendi (Euskaltel-Euskadi) and Ibon Ruiz (Equipo Kern Pharma) – who saw their two minute lead over the peloton evaporate in the lumpy final fifteen kilometres.
The happiest rider of all at the finish seemed to be Alaphilippe’s Quick Step-Alpha Vinyl teammate Remco Evenepoel, whose text-book kilometre-plus leadout set the world champion up for what in the end was a comfortable win, while Remco himself stays second on GC behind Primož Roglič.
Remco is definitely happy. pic.twitter.com/YRpVREbXsz
— Cycling out of context (@OutOfCycling) April 5, 2022
Toronto police issue 17,000 fines for parking in bike lanes last year
While Salford’s newest bike lane has gotten off to a less than auspicious start thanks to drivers using it as a bonus parking bay, on the other side of the Atlantic police in Toronto issued 16,492 tickets to motorists obstructing bikeways in the city, more than doubling the previous year’s number.
The fine for parking in a bike lane in Toronto is $150.
“Parking in bicycle lanes obstructs the use of the lanes and creates a dangerous situation where bicyclists must swerve onto live lanes of traffic,” Toronto police told Global News.
Police in the Canadian city have devoted more time and effort to clamping down on bike lane parking, which one specialist cycling lawyer claimed was “endemic”, as Toronto continues to invest in cycling infrastructure, adding 50km of bikeways during the past two years.
Heavy Metal Truants – rockers ride from London to Donington for charity
For those of you hoping for a more wholesome link between rock and roll and cycling after the whole Eric Clapton-BMX thing, the Heavy Metal Truants are once again raising money for charity by riding from London’s Alexandra Palace to Download Festival at Donington Park, 175 miles away.
HMT was co-founded by Iron Maiden manager Rod Smallwood and music journo Alexander Milas in 2013, and has raised over a million pounds for charity in the last decade.
While the pandemic forced the group to take on virtual challenges, they aim to celebrate their tenth year by once again riding for three days, from 8-10 June, from London to Castle Donington, the home of Download Festival (and also the site of one of rock’s great concert videos, filmed when AC/DC headlined the old Monsters of Rock festival there back in 1991).
Enjoy a lovely few days on the bike riding through the English countryside, then settle in for some Maiden, Kiss and Megadeth – what could be better?
All money raised will be donated to Teenage Cancer Trust, Nordoff Robbins, Childline, and Save the Children.
To find out more about this great rock and bike collaboration, and how to donate, you can visit the Heavy Metal Truants’ website here.
Bamford Clough versus Whitby: who wins in the battle of the super-steep climbs?
Going to report this tweet. That’s obscene. https://t.co/l5a7kj2zMX
— Simon P. (@thepuncheur) April 4, 2022
While we focus our attention today on the almost impossible, hideously cobbled Donkey Path in Whitby, lest we forget Bamford Clough, the 36 percent monster described just last year by climbs connoisseur Simon Warren as the “steepest climb in Britain”.
We came back to measure Bamford Clough. 36.5% at steepest point. SHUT UP! pic.twitter.com/x1djt1Oqew
— Simon Warren (@100Climbs) September 16, 2021
So, let’s get all Harry Hill on this – of Britain’s super-steep hills, Bamford Clough and Whitby’s Donkey Path, which is better (or just more ridiculous)?
I’ll cast the first vote for the humble rear wheel spinner Cornmill, captured in all its treacherous glory below, if only for a spot of local pride.
Finally, on the subject of Whitby’s Donkey Path, as road.cc’s silly challenge guinea pig Liam Cahill is on holiday this week, we’ve gladly volunteered him to take on the 50 percent gradient in an upcoming video on our YouTube channel.
Now that really would make for an impressive everesting…
5 April 2022, 08:15
5 April 2022, 08:15
5 April 2022, 08:15
An update on this story, as Jaguar TCS Racing announce that the mechanic is “no longer associated” with the team.
Mechanic "no longer associated" with Jaguar TCS Racing after saying run over cyclists ignoring cycle lanes
Now-former No.1 mechanic Charlie Forkner's foul-mouthed social media rant also called for riders to be "dragged onto the path and p*ssed on by everyone!"
5 April 2022, 08:15
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Latest Comments
@chrisonabike Aha so the police have progressed. No longer is it just "Oh yeah it's a terrible problem but there's nothing much we can really do" but a more finessed version: "Oh yeah its a terrible problem but there's nothing much we can really do as you aren't the victim or the perpetrator". Not so catchy though. I think the folks at police training college will struggle to get the coppers to remember this one. Oh well. The original is still the best one.
And why is the second item overlooking a perfect opportunity to use the wonderful interrobang‽
27! Exclamation marks! On today's live blog! Maybe too much! Of a good thing!?
@mitsky And long may Hammersmith and Albert bridges remain for foot and bicycle traffic, hopefully with Vauxhall to follow soon.
@GravelIsNothingNew Right from the beginning of motoring speed limits were introduced because motorists couldn't be trusted to drive responsibly. Recently even lower speed limits i.e. 20 mph have been introduced for the same reason. But motorists still protest and give stupid reasons that have nothing to do with safety: "Cars are less efficient at lower speeds" or "My car wasn't designed to do 20 mph" etc. And they don't seem to realise they are the root cause of "all" the extra facilities being built for cyclists and pedestrians
@Rendel Harris Come to Surrey. You'll see plenty of examples of motorists who drive with what very much looks like the attitude of 'I don't care if I injure or kill a cyclist'.
I think I read on Weight Weenies once that Zipps are for the go with the flow crowd who vaguely recall that they may have been mentioned as good once and can't be bothered to do any actual research themselves. They're welcome to them - hookless and with junk hubs.
There was me thinking you could do that any time you liked...
Wait til he finds out about vehicles...
But it was mentioned here: "Hammersmith Bridge car plans axed over £300m cost" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yzqv29d1eo
49 thoughts on “Stupidly steep hills: could you ride up a 50% gradient?; ‘Embarrassing, victim-blaming’ road safety campaign criticised for focusing on cycling ‘skills and PPE’; Climate change councillor calls active travel campaigner a ‘clown’ + more on the live blog”
Can the NI police please
Can the NI police please confirm which PPE will save you if someone drives their flatbed truck into the back of you because the sun was in their eyes…
Duurr.
Duurr.
One of these obviously. It’s the only acceptable form of equipment for use on the roads – everyone knows that.
It’s the perfect transport
It’s the perfect transport for the modern keen cyclist! Only possible improvements would be a bike or two in the picture: on a rack, obviously.
NO! The offset number plate
NO! The offset number plate on the back of the current Disco annoys me so much I am tempted to ram every single one I see (and I am sure that any reasonable judge would accept the fugly design as mitigation when sentencing)
.
You’re right, but with way
You’re right, but with way too much caffeine involved.
Nah, way too small. What you
Nah, way too small. What you really need is one of these:
TonyE-H wrote:
I saw that and just assumed it was a prank, not a Real Thing.
Arms race!
Arms race!
Dear Police Service of
Dear Police Service of Northern Ireland,
Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance, ya fecking eejits, give ya heads a wobble.
Kindest regards
peted76
Is that supposed to be a
Is that supposed to be a zebra crossing? It doesn’t go across the road, so what is it, then?
hawkinspeter wrote:
I think it’s a purple horse.
mdavidford wrote:
Is that anything like a purple squirrel?
And I know that while some
And I know that while some can, many people can’t walk or cycle even a relatively short distance. Presenting it as a universal solution on its own isn’t realistic I’m afraid.
1. I would suggest that MANY people can walk or cycle even a relatively short distance and that SOME can’t. Some very fudgy language going on there.
2. Why does a solution have to be universal? Can a solution, or series of solutions built on the learnings of previous ones, not provide incremental gains or benefits?
And on a wider point, if people are waiting an hour or hours in traffic (ignoring the fact that they themselves are traffic) to travel 2-4 miles, what would it actually take for them to choose an alternative method of travelling? It’s actually mind-boggling how much inconvenience people will accept before they would make a simple change.
I totally agree. Maybe 70% of
I totally agree. Maybe 70% of people are fit and healthy enough to walk or cycle of couple of miles. If they all did that, the number of car journeys would nearly halve, and free up the roads for those unable to walk/cycle.
When a local LTN was put in, people complained that a 5 minute journey now took them 20 minutes. It would take 20 minutes to walk. Why were they not walking a 5 minute journey before, and even more bafflingly why are they still driving when walking now takes the same time?!
I would say that way more
I would say that way more than 70% could walk or cycle a couple of miles and a good many that would claim that they can’t is because they don’t and have let their physical capability decline to the point that walking or cycling has become too difficult. That is for many a reversible condition, but requires effort and determination.
My guess of 70% was
My guess of 70% was conservative. I imagine more than 70% could if they built up to it. However, we need to take into account those who could walk/cycle a couple of miles but perhaps not without baggage (e.g. shopping).
That said, anti-LTN campaigners do seem to believe that a startling number of people have physical disabilities that render them totally car dependent.
Agree
Agree
HarrogateSpa wrote:
Don’t forget the children! That can be a really big campaigning issue because it has widespread appeal and you can spin it as a negative against people who aren’t for this. (Negative campaigning is not generally a good thing but it can be extremely powerful – witness the “Stop de Kindermoord” campaigns in The Netherlands and related campaigns).
If you do this properly (infrastructure basically) not only does this reduce car trips and free up adults but most importantly it gives children independant mobility. That’s a win in so many ways (health, happiness, development). Here’s what we could be doing:
https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/tag/children/
http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2013/09/the-school-run-in-assen.html
Cocovelo wrote:
Keep in mind that it was as only Chris Vinson who said a 5 min journey in a car would be 4 miles – it actually much, much less than that.
A 5 min, 4 mile journey would mean a 48mph average speed. I don’t use Twitter but maybe someone can ask the Councillor why he supports people hooning around Dover town centre at 60mph+ on their daily commutes?
Somewhere in the thread his
Somewhere in the thread his response to this was: “The A20 is 70mph from the edge of town. Dover isn’t very big and has two major strategic roads leading right up to the port”.
It’s disappointing that
It’s disappointing that politicians (not just this one) can’t take advantage of a problem to encourage people to break the habit of driving and look at alternative active travel options.
I understand that climate change is seen as poison chalice politically but when you you find yourself on the same side of the fence as climate change deniers and the IPCC is on the otherside accusing you of being a liar then I think you need to rethink your job.
Chris Vinson is perfectly
Chris Vinson is perfectly demonstrating why we will never effectively tackle climate-change; people are just not willing to accept the drop in personal convenience that comes hand-in-hand with the steps we need to take.
His statement that it’s unreasonable that people walk 2-4 miles (no distance at all) is honestly one of the most insane things I’ve ever read. Some quick Google-ing tells me that (pre-pandemic) 68% of all car journeys in the UK are less than five miles, that 24% are under one mile and that the average single-occupancy car journey (so, representative of a commute) is just 7.8 miles.
Even with generous assumptions of levels of disability/lack of physical ability and those who need to carry luggage, it’s hard not to come to the conclusion that at least half of all car journeys in the UK probably shouldn’t be car journeys.
The thing is, there’s no
The thing is, there’s no actual drop in convenience when using a bicycle for short journeys instead of the car. Since our street became an LTN, a lot of formerly car dependent families have switched to cycling instead. I’ve met quite a few who’ve said they never realised riding a bike would be quicker.
I agree that cycling is more
I agree that cycling is more convenient than most people give it credit for, though I’d say (at least from the average person’s perspective) that there’s more to convenience than just journey length. There’s warmth and comfort, ease/lack of effort, ability to carry more luggage, out-and-out speed, ect.
I actually quite enjoy cycling to work in the mornings, but there’s still the fact that it’s harder than driving, colder than driving, I get wet, I get sweaty, it’s more of a pain in the arse to carry what I need, I have to find somewhere to change at work. There are definitely some days when I step out of my door in the morning and see the freezing rain, and wish I could just take my warm, dry, motorised arm-chair to work instead.
BalladOfStruth wrote:
I live where it gets properly cold, and at -10 °C I guarantee that for the first ten minutes of the journey I’m warmer cycling than they are in their cars that have been outside all day. Well, except for those who remotely start their cars 20 minutes before they leave.
Takes me ages to warm up on
Takes me ages to warm up on my commute – probably because I live on a hill, so I spend a fair amount of the journey coasting. That cold-snap we had last week was pretty unpleasant.
On the flipside, the journey home is a five-mile climb which can be a bit rubbish in the summer.
BalladOfStruth wrote:
My commute starts with a hard effort within about the first mile, both directions. The proverbial “uphill both ways.”
Surely if you’re not prepared
Surely if you’re not prepared to even explore other options (because you know – hills, some people not me can’t walk/cycle for more than 30 seconds, err I always need to transport a grand piano, two great danes and a gas boiler…. etc) then you don’t get to sit there whining about congestion.
Just shut up and accept your fate.
100% agree. I have had
100% agree. I have had similar conversations with colleagues who complain about traffic/parking/fuel prices and they don’t like me making this point.
With the exception of one guy, I live the furthest away from the office, yet I’m the only one who cycles in. There are at least three guys who live within a mile of the office who still drive in. None of them will even entertain the idea of cycling or walking.
What ! I would be briskly
What ! I would be briskly walking 1 mile – doubt I’d even use the bike.
hirsute wrote:
Have to admit I agree with you on that. For a one or two mile journey, I don’t think I’d bother cycling.
Sometimes I think that active
Sometimes I think that active travel will always run up against the problem of people being lazy. But then I look at places like The Netherlands and remember that if we hit a critical level of acceptance then it can become the norm.
BalladOfStruth wrote:
I used to have a 1.3 mile commute each way in my 20s, and I have no f*cking idea why I used to drive my car or my motorcycle every day. I even walked it or cycled it a few times, so I knew what it was like.
I was a moron.
Cocovelo wrote:
— CocoveloNote the turning of a simple suggestion that some people could walk/cycle, into a bizarre absolute demand that everyone has to do it. Unfortunately this is typical of the anti-active travel brigade, and they will paint any provision for it as anti-car, anti-freedom, ant-human rights almost.
eburtthebike wrote:
Yet it doesn’t seem to matter that not everyone can drive.
This! Defining private
This! Defining private “transport” as “motor vehicles”. Then just saying “we only consider those drivers – oh guess there may be passengers but anyway the answer has to look like a car”.
Political thinking: doesn’t already exist, so it cannot be. OK, it does exist, but it’s not new / businesses aren’t lobbying me with pots of cash to subsidise it / people aren’t already doing this (possibly ignoring the law) at a rate we feel we can’t stop / quite a few people don’t like it / it’s change!
Then for individuals – Nobody does this. OK, people do it but no-one I know. OK a few people I know do but most don’t; they don’t look me / are super fit / don’t have shopping to carry / don’t have kids / can wear lycra and get wet / they’re weird tree huggers / poor. OK, but they’re cyclists!
eburtthebike wrote:
Yep – “you want change, so not only do you have to make some things better but if your idea doesn’t solve the problem of life then it’s useless”.
Odd that this standard isn’t applied to everyone advocating for change though, eh?
I do have sympathy with individuals and their personal challenges. In fact you must to make changes without being a dictator. You don’t get far without convincing people you’re actually interested in their interests and concerns first.
However when sounding off in public it can sound like “but… but…”: https://cyclingfallacies.com/en/
Ah, good ol’ twitter.
Ah, good ol’ twitter.
How? How? HOW? has no-one
How? How? HOW? has no-one queried the suggestions that a 5 minute care ride is 4 miles in ANY town? That suggests an average speed of 48mph – so unless Dover a) has an entirely different approach to speed limits in urban areas that LITERALLY THE REST OF THE COUNTRY; and b) and uncanny set up consisting almost exclusively of dual carriageways with no junctions or traffic lights, that’s complete tripe.
I would go far as to say that it is practically impossible (if not actually impossible) to legally complete a 4 mile journey in 5 minutes in any built up area in the UK!
Even 2 miles in 5 minutes is 24mph which is reasonably good going in a built up area, especially at peak times. The suggestion by the Counciller that most 5 minute journeys are going to be 2-4 miles is the real clown comment here.
Wingguy did below! Road.cc –
Wingguy did below! Road.cc – more insightful than Twitter.
“legendary guitarist-turned
“legendary guitarist-turned raving anti-vaxxer” – you missed the bit in the middle where Eric Clapton endorsed fascism
the little onion wrote:
You’ll be calling David Bowie a nazi next…
Two paragraphs down…
Two paragraphs down…
I meant the whole endorsing
I meant the whole endorsing the National Front thing in 1976
Was in Italy last year in a
Was in Italy last year in a hilly coastal town where many many cyclists had electric bikes to help them up and over steep parts. No excuses anymore.
That’s not Kilimanjaro. It’s
That’s not Kilimanjaro. It’s Slemish.
Wow! Tory Dover councillor
Wow! Tory Dover councillor and ‘climate change expert’ Vinson and the Police Service of Northern Ireland are REALLY thick, aren’t they?
Should have worn hi Viz
Should have worn hi Viz
https://mobile.twitter.com/howyagalway/status/1510640263336804352
Dover is clogged with brexit
Dover is clogged with brexit lorries. And the UK is set to delay Brexit again by not implementing full checks at the Border in the summer (what was that about ‘bring back control)
https://www.ft.com/content/53636e5d-eaaf-4d45-a3bc-a827d4b551a0
And then there are the biometric checks for third countries shortly to arrive. That should help to add to the lorry queues. But then the people of Dover voted for it – so they should embrace their new found lorry queues.