“How is this possible?” Fiona Kolbinger shocks Strava with 428km ride averaging 30.5km/h; Cav’s TDF return?; ‘Mr Loophole’ plugs tabard petition on Radio 4; Cycling DnB DJ makes pre-match coverage; Railway bridge infilling furore + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
Weekend catch-up
And what a stunning weekend it was, where we hope you all managed to get plenty of riding in! Not so much that you didn’t read road.cc, but if you were guilty of that here’s what you missed…
Rider thrown off Baloise Belgium Tour for using illegal handlebars
Mark Cavendish to lead Deceuninck-Quick Step Tour de France sprint challenge?
Cyclist suffering with tunnel vision attempts world record for fastest ride around Britain
Edinburgh Transport Chief defends scheme helping ’45 per cent of residents’ without a car
Security guard sacked for riding child’s bicycle up and down tram platform
Concerns over future of Sheldon Brown’s website as bike shop where he worked closes down
"Done? Nah mate": All the love for Mark Cavendish (and more speculation) after latest victory rolls back the years
Cavendish added yet another victory to his impressive comeback season at the Tour of Belgium, with teammate Remco Evenepoel taking the overall victory. As we reported at the weekend, it is still a possibility we might see Cav at the Tour de France if Sam Bennett doesn’t recover from injury, and while being sceptical he didn’t exactly deny it in this interview…
So, is Cav going to the Tour or not?….
Cav took the win today on stage 5 of the Baloise Belgium Tour against some pretty fast finishers, but we’re still none the wiser when it comes to Patrick Lefevere’s Tour squad selection pic.twitter.com/BCBDdSiFyF
— GlobalCyclingNetwork (@gcntweet) June 13, 2021
…but boss Patrick Lefevere says Cav’s contract will need to be renegotiated to make that happen, plus Lefevere’s general feeling is that the Tour will be “too hard” for Cavendish.
Still, we can dream and so can Cav’s fans. The world of cycling is loving seeing the Manxman back at the top of his game.
If I may sidestep football for a second, the renaissance of Mark Cavendish demands our attention. It’s exhilarating, unexpected, quite confounding and no longer ignorable. I hope your publications find a little time for it @DickinsonTimes @tomcary_tel @jonathanliew @Lawton_Times
— Ned Boulting (@nedboulting) June 13, 2021
2019 Transcontinental Race champ Fiona Kolbinger leaves Strava speechless with "ridiculous" 428km ride averaging 30.5km/h
It appears the postponement of the eighth Transcon ultra race to 2022 hasn’t exactly led to its current champion taking her foot off the gas, as Fiona Kolbinger continues to put in huge mileage undertaken at incredible speeds. The latest one has been described as her most impressive yet, a 14 hour jaunt with a total distance of over 428km (266 miles) undertaken at a frightening average speed of 30.5km/h (18.9mph).
We can see from Kolbinger’s Strava upload that the total time her Garmin was running was 16 hours, meaning she took around two hours’ break over the day. The particularly high average speed for a ride of this distance could have been helped by the fact that Kolbinger appeared to be riding with others, allowing them to draft each other to save some energy if they were riding as a group.
Kolbinger’s followers had their minds blown by this latest upload, with one commenting: “I don’t even understand how this is physically possible!”
Another said: “How the heck do you maintain 30kph for 14 hours with 5000 elevation. I couldn’t do that on an Ebike.”
More of Fiona Kolbinger's recent leisurely rides + reaction so far
Strava was impressed and it seems our followers are too, with plenty commenting on the extraordinary talents of the 26-year-old German doctor/ultra cyclist. Scrolling further down Kolbinger’s Strava page reveals the monster rides aren’t just occasional either – the upload above from 24th May appears to have been a solo effort, with 312km rode at a pace of 28.6km/h. Between 10th-13th May, she completed back-to-back huge rides of 295km, 291km, 342km and 165km, displaying the endurance and consistency that gave her that epic Transcon victory two years ago.
insane 😮
— Alex White (@AlexAlexjwhite) June 14, 2021
On our Twitter page Alex White simply described the effort as “insane”, while Rich_cb says Kolbinger is going to have to “up her game” – we detect a hint of sarcasm, perhaps in reference to this controversial article from last week…
Much-loved retro jersey specialists Prendas Ciclismo to "transform business" - full story to follow
After 25 years it’s time for change according to the owners, and it’s generally sad news for Prendas fans – full story to follow soon.
> The story of La Vie Claire’s classic jersey, voted the greatest of all time
Railway bridge infilling furore - petition update on filling of Musgrave bridge in Cumbria generates huge backlash
The latest update to a petition aimed at preventing Highways England from filling in heritage railway bridges around the UK has provoked a furious response.
The update to the ‘Protect our railway heritage from Highways England’s wrecking ball’ petition, posted on 12th June, claims that it’s looking “increasingly likely” efforts to save Great Musgrave bridge in Cumbria from being filled in will be lost:
“Highways England started to infill this bridge on 24 May. It does not have planning permission and the local authority has twice asked it to stop. But it has continued with this vandalism regardless, citing Permitted Development powers which only facilitate temporary works in emergency situations presenting a risk of death or injury”, said the petition’s author.
One commented: “They are doing the same to a railway tunnel on the old Bradford – Queensbury – Halifax line. They started to pour concrete down a ventilation shaft but had to stop after a local outcry. There are local plans to incorporate the tunnel into part of a cycleway between Bradford and Halifax but it seems that they are waiting to rush in and completely fill it, ignoring the fact that most local people want to keep it open.”
The petition has attracted over 13,000 signatures so far, and says that while the UK’s network of foot and cycle routes “has brought new life to many old railways over the past 50 years”, Highways England has plans to demolish or infill 3,200 of them.
The author adds: “By adding your voice, the loudest possible message can be sent to Highways England and the Department for Transport: these assets must not be put beyond use if they could play a positive future transport role and all plans to do so must be subject to appropriate public scrutiny.”
Bristol's foremost cycling drum & bass DJ makes it onto the BBC's England pre-match coverage
Dom Whiting’s “proudest moment” came in the build-up to England’s 1-0 victory over Croatia yesterday, as he made a guest appearance on the BBC’s match coverage around half an hour before kick-off.
We see Whiting riding his DJ-modified cargo bike around the country, waving the St George’s flag and playing numerous patriotic songs as fans cheer back at him. According to our resident cycling drum & bass fan Oli Pendrey the appearance was a tad underwhelming compared to some of Whiting’s regular mobile DJ gigs, claiming that his Cardiff set at the weekend was very entertaining and full of genuine jungle bangers. You can watch over 90 minutes of it here if you so wish to do so…
Wishing road.cc tech writer and presenter Liam a strong recovery!
Unfortunately our own Liam Cahill hit a pothole at quite a speed over the weekend, “using his head as a sort of rudimentary brake” in the process. Thankfully Liam was riding with others who got him help ASAP, and by Sunday evening he was recovering at home with some BBQ.
Feel free to leave Liam your best wishes in the comments!
The BBC's cycling foreign correspondent Anna Holligan rides "the most football crazed street in The Hague"
Most football crazed street in The Hague? #HupHollandHup #EURO2020 pic.twitter.com/ypbaRPm0HO
— anna holligan 🎙 (@annaholligan) June 14, 2021
From drum & bass + cycling to reading the news + cycling, Netherlands-based reporter Anna Holligan takes us through a neighbourhood in The Hague where residents have turned the streets into a sea of orange to mark the country’s first appearance at a major football tournament since the 2014 World Cup.
Morning to everyone, especially @DenzelJMD2 #EURO2020
Dutch news from the cycle path.
⚽️🧡💥🦠✈️🚫💉 pic.twitter.com/mrdAOgV4eG
— anna holligan 🎙 (@annaholligan) June 14, 2021
For those who aren’t aware, Holligan posts daily news reports on her Twitter feed titled “Dutch news from the cycle path”, where she does pretty much what it says on the tin by reading the day’s news while she rides her electric cargo bike. And here’s how she does it…
Cycling electric assist cargo bike.
Use @rodemics lapel mic, connected to phone with adaptor, mounted on @Shoulderpod stick, attached to @jobyinc handlebar grip (other microphones, selfie sticks and phone mounts are available).
Post any Qs👇🏾& I’ll try to answer later💡🎥🎤🚲 pic.twitter.com/nkeZzvLWHD
— anna holligan 🎙 (@annaholligan) June 4, 2021
Are we famous now? A response video to a response video on our '8 things they don’t tell you about disc brakes' video
Our latest video has led to some lively debate over on our YouTube channel – and cycling YouTuber Waynos Fotos has even taken the time to record his own video about it…
In response, we’ll say that there wasn’t really a great deal of response to the video itself – marks out of 10 for Becca’s excellent presenting, ambience, the stunning filming and photography? Waynos’ video appears to be more of a critique of disc brakes on road bikes in general, but who are we to argue if road.cc gets a mention? Anyway, I’m off for a reduced lunch break so I can spend the rest of it sorting out my disc brake rub…
'Mr Loophole' lawyer Nick Freeman pops up on BBC Radio 4 to plug cyclist and e-scooter rider ID petition
Following an appearance on Talkradio last week to talk about his petition, the lawyer Nick Freeman, who became well known for preventing dangerous celebrity drivers from receiving bans on technicalities, also spoke on Radio 4 this morning.
Presenter Nick Robinson opened with: “If you’ve ever cursed a cyclist going through a red light or riding onto a pavement and felt powerless, you might like the sound of a proposal for a new cyclist registration scheme which would make anyone riding a bike display a registration number, the equivalent of a car number plate, so they can be held accountable for how they ride their bikes.”
Repeating his widely-panned ‘numbered tabard’ idea that he has suggested since at least 2015, Freeman explains how it would work: “There would be a similar system to which that operates for motor cars. Each cyclist would be required to wear a registered tabard with a registration number on the back, so that if there was an offence committed, a member of the public would be able to obtain that information and report it to the police.
“The police would then send out a section 172 notice, which is the same notice which is sent out to a driver who is the registered keeper of a motor car, and there would be a legal obligation to furnish information as to who was cycling at the time.”
When Robinson says that car registration and “popping to the shops on your bike” with a numbered tabard are “not quite the same” Freeman fails to answer the question, instead saying he wants to promote “a harmonious and safe environment for all people” with his idea.
Kevin O’ Sullivan, a lawyer specialising in cyclists and cycling, tells Robinson that Freeman’s idea will reduce rates of cycling, adding: “In those few cases where irresponsible cycling happens, they’re mostly a danger to themselves.”
Is it just for adults? If so, what’s an old-looking 16-year-old meant to do? Carry ID to prove their age? You could go on, endlessly. And that’s just the basic logistics.
— Peter Walker (@peterwalker99) June 14, 2021
Freeman’s latest appearance has received quite a backlash on social media, with Guardian political correspondent Peter Walker listing numerous reasons why the scheme could be problematic. Thomas Penny added: “The suggestion that any motorist slightly irritated by a cyclist could report them to the police is also completely unsustainable. I couldn’t believe they were giving it airtime”…
London Cycling Campaign targeting media appearances with top five "obnoxious, controversial, and over the top" transport policy ideas
Has anyone got some really obnoxious, controversial, and over the top ideas we could start sharing so we get on the radio? Tweet them down below 👇
— London Cycling Campaign (@London_Cycling) June 14, 2021
Perhaps inspired by the coverage a certain legal professional has been getting recently, London Cycling Campaign asked its Twitter followers for ideas “to get on the radio”. Popular entries included negative road pricing so cyclists and pedestrians would be paid for their journeys, compulsory high-vis for cars and 100 hours of on-the-road cycling for those wanting to pass a driving test. This one topped the LCC spice rating…
Manditory helmets for drivers.. The science is clear!
— Mat Bonomi (@matbono) June 14, 2021
Drivers "should be sent back to the classroom to improve road safety for cycling", say children in Scottish road safety report
The nationwide ‘Changing Gears’ report, commissioned by Cycling Scotland and co-designed by Children in Scotland, was the first to be produced in collaboration with children and young people. It revealed that some youngsters surveyed thought that drivers should receive extra lessons on driving safely near people on bikes.
Others mentioned that there was a lack of safe places to cycle such as well maintained cycle paths and trails, while others suggested that there should be more signs reminding drivers to slow down.
Christopher Johnson, Head of Training and Education, Cycling Scotland said: “Being responsible for the national cycle training programme for school children, Bikeability Scotland, we wanted to provide a mechanism where children could tell us their thoughts and feelings on cycling and road safety.
“Partnering with Children in Scotland was the ideal opportunity to realise these aims, ensuring that even the methodology of the research was co-designed with children.
“The findings of the report made very interesting reading, and demonstrate the important of listening to children. The report will help to inform our programmes and policies going forward.”
'Cargo bike mum' blog article: your thoughts and opinions
We’ve had plenty of thoughtful and interesting feedback to the excellent blog article penned for road.cc by Sylvia Gauthereau, the cycling policy campaigner who was the victim of a social media pile-on after being photographed riding an e-cargo bike on the pavement with her daughter in the cargo box.
brooksby said: “IMO part of the problem is how so many motorists appear to think that if a parent has their child with them, then it is somehow the parent’s fault for putting the child in harm’s way regardless of whether it is the motorist who is causing or threatening to cause harm.”
jh2727 commented: “I found that when I had a child seat on my bike I tended to get given a lot more space – even when I was only using it to carry a rucksack. That said, I see quite a few secondary school kids riding school on my morning commute and they get treated like shit by motorists. The only school kids that are given any space on the road the road by motorists are the ones that ride in packs pulling wheelies. I have also been mom-splained* for being irresponsible enough to tow my daughter on a tag-along on the road.
“*mom-splainer being a mother (and it always is) who feels (and is unable to resist) the urge to critize the parenting of people she doesn’t know.”
Have you read the article? If you haven’t yet, we’d recommend taking 10 minutes to do so here.
14 June 2021, 08:20
Another sunny weekend, another case of a cyclist being intimidated by a motorists in London’s Richmond Park...
Video: Richmond Park driver intimidates female cyclist by beeping horn before overtake
Separately, police say a cyclist was involved in crash in the park in which young deer was killed this weekend
14 June 2021, 08:20
14 June 2021, 08:20
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Latest Comments
I'll counter that by saying the Bryton 750se I have drives me nuts at times. Inconsistantly picks up on routes created on Komoot and the app re-syncs every few seconds when trying to set up the device and sends me back to the home screen. The most infuriating one is that I turned live track on. Once. It now won't turn off and repeatedly flags up the live track is starting, and then disconnecting every few seconds whilst riding. I haven't timed it but it wouldn't suprise me if 10-20% of the time the the screen is covered with an error message. That's been about 6 weeks now. Other than that it's great :/
RE: Police launch road safety operation... by clamping down on cyclists using footbridge Meanwhile in Glasgow, Police Scotland are riding their motorbikes over the pedestrian and cyclists only bridge. https://x.com/FietserGlasgow/status/2065106152917012523?s=20
@Paul J Van Schip certainly seems a bit of a dick, but he's a European and multiple World Champion on the track, pretty sure you don't get there without having some talent in your legs.
Poor Vincent cannot get over the simple fact that given the choice people prefer dedicated cycling spaces, rather than pretending to be cars like vehicular cyclists.
What is the point of the fancy air sensor if it can't account for changing weather conditions?? If all you care about is a delayed approximation of aerodynamic watts in steady conditions, you don't need any special sensors for that. Just your speed on a decently flat course is enough to approximate rolling resistance and drivetrain losses. And the rest must be aero. If you assume a less aero body position at the same watts, your speed will drop while rolling resistance also drops, which means approximated aero watts goes up. And that's enough to demonstrate what you've shown in your testing protocol ("I sat upright and the number went up a little while later").
Your correction is accurate - it's almost always been "the (lack of) thought that (doesn't) count". "Massive" - less than a billion a year spent on active travel (trying to catch up / building a network across the entire country) Not massive - 6 billion every year (2026-2030) spent on road *maintenance* of existing "already built, goes everywhere, very convenient" road network for inactive travel Ultimately the reason "cycle infra" is *needed* is those unbelievably colossal amounts spent every year (and for more than a century now) on making mass motoring not just viable but apparently the "best choice" for most journeys. As the Dutch and others have shown, the majority of people *are* prepared to cycle and even mix with very light, slow local motor traffic *if* cycling is also made safe and convenient for the whole of their journey (including secure parking at both ends). (The history of the financial drivers of the current situation are a complex topic but note that while people complain about "crumbling roads" and underfunded motor infra - with some reason - by us continuing the fuel duty escalator freeze (for example) we're actually helping motorists pay *even less* for that activity / subsidising more of the cost of driving than ever.)
yes, but people will still object - which was my point.
So ' Priority of Road Users' and 1.5 metre clearance at 30mph has been been reduced to 'sharing'? NCN route 2 here in South Hams is an absolute scream with white vans, tractors and total idiots who refuse,or are totally incapable,to reverse on high Devon banked lanes ...means you have to get off and pedal back to a passing place....could be at that all day...so I don't bother...
@MaxiMinimalist Agreed. The big problem I see now is today's parents grew up being driven to their schools, and therefore, see private motor vehicles as the only viable form of transport. The vast majority of UK infant and primary schools have a catchment area that is within easy walking distance from home to school. Yet, the traffic caused by pupils being driven to/from school is astonishing. Banishing the "School Run" should be a priority for all schools.
When I was a kid (that was during the previous millenium when phones were connected to a plug in the wall), I rode my bicycle to school, music academy, sport grounds, parties even during the winter. The government didn't have to spend, correct that, didn't have to think of spending massive amounts of money to build cycling specific infrastructures. Over the past 3 or 4 decades, cars have grown bigger, taller, safer (for their drivers) and faster. Meanwhile, motorists have become abusive, aggressive, hypersensitive to people moving on two wheels, aka cyclists. Spending billions upon billions on new infrastructure won't address the crux of the matter. Sadly.
58 thoughts on ““How is this possible?” Fiona Kolbinger shocks Strava with 428km ride averaging 30.5km/h; Cav’s TDF return?; ‘Mr Loophole’ plugs tabard petition on Radio 4; Cycling DnB DJ makes pre-match coverage; Railway bridge infilling furore + more on the live blog”
Its been years that strava
Its been years that strava users have been asking for a way to distinguish group rides from solo efforts and I guess Fiona’s data once again shows the issue – a fantastic ride even if it was a group ride…but the aero effects, as we all know, of riding in a group make a huge difference.
Global Nomad wrote:
The list of people she was riding with that you can clearly see in her Strava activity is a clue, no? Is it even a good idea anyway, someone can do a group ride but you don’t know if they sat at the back or were at the front the whole time.
perhaps in this instance and
perhaps in this instance and if you follow someone, but segment leaderboards are still too opaque. still…i only consider my own times and improvements on them anyway.
If you sit all the time on the fron tyou still get reduced drag from the riders behind you…
Not always, I’ve ridden
Not always, I’ve ridden sportives just as a lone rider, never in a group of riders or using them for shelter or anything,just ride along at my own pace, and Strava has then grouped a bunch of riders who happened to be on the same route with me together.
So maybe she was in a group for bits,but maybe it’s just other riders on the same route at roughly the same time.
Maybe she was just trying to get one of those Go Faster jerseys 🙂
I don’t understand why people
I don’t understand why people care so much about the purity of Strava leaderboards. If you want to race, why not join a race?
If you’re bored check out the
If you’re bored check out the comments below the ‘Alpe du Zwift’ KOM.
Some people literally need to get out more.
It’s far too easy to cheat a
It’s far too easy to cheat a “solo” leaderboard – just get a dozen mates to lead you out and not record their ride et voila, you’ve done in all on your own
Nick T wrote:
or drive your car slowly*.
*with traffic being what it is in much of the UK, reaching an average speed of 30kmh would be difficult.
jh2727 wrote:
Or do what I saw during one of those named storms a couple of years ago ride a 4 mile segment with a tailwind gusting to 40mph.
(they invited me to join them but I had ridden the 4 miles into the wind and was too knackered)
I’ve asked Strava to add this
I’ve asked Strava to add this functionality before. People hiding in the peloton and getting KOMS/QOMS seems unfair?
It would be good to have a metric to show how much of the ride each rider was on the front? This could contribute to your “effort” score?
GPS is not accurate enough
GPS is not accurate enough for “front” etc. But “people hiding in the peloton and getting KOMS/QOMS”. How do they guarantee they will do that and tbh, how sad are they for deciding to do this, and how sad are you for caring about it?
GPS is accurate to around 3m
GPS is accurate to around 3m which a peloton can easily exceed. Combined with wheel speed sensors and/or Bluetooth I would suggest it is easily possible.As to why people feel the need to constantly “sit in” and save energy, you would have to ask them. Cycling in a peloton is a fantastic thing and to share the workload is a fair expectation (amongst a similar level of cyclists). Do I lay awake crying that people do this, no? Lifes too short to spend insulting people online who don’t agree with your opinion, have a lovely day.
and how do you get strava to
and how do you get strava to edit the leaderboards to remove people who had a 20mph tailwind? or who fortuitously followed a van at 25mph?
wycombewheeler wrote:
Exactly. For most of the segments around me, my best is about half the speed of the current KOM. But I do have two KOMs, one of them 24 MPH for over a mile on the flats, and a couple of climbs where I’m just a couple seconds off the KOM. All four segments are on my commuting routes and I’ve ridden them hundreds of times. Eventually I caught a perfect tailwind.
Important news! Grand Tour
Important news! Grand Tour winners spend most of their time drafting behind their team mates. How unfair!
I’d love to see Cav, on form,
I’d love to see Cav, on form, at the tour again, he’s such an endearing personality, how can you not root for a bloke who gives it his everything on the road and wears his heart on his sleeve. If Cav went to the Tour, can you imagine the worldwide support he’d receive!
That ‘drag race’ sprint finish was darn impressive, an excellent lead out, topped off by absolute class + supreme form.
Kolbinger is going to have to
Kolbinger is going to have to up her game if she wants that level 2 jersey…
“From the article” wrote:
Who could? I mean the battery would be dead after the first few hours and then you’d have to haul all that extra weight up whatever remained of the 5000 (inches? feet? mm? km?) elevation.
jh2727 wrote:
At least you could dump the battery in a hedge; to be recovered later of course, not abandoned.
Best wishes for a speedy
Best wishes for a speedy recovery, Liam!
*Tinfoil hat on*
*Tinfoil hat on*
All a conspiracy to drive up clicks around a helmet debate, I tells ya!
…but was the pothole
…but was the pothole wearing hi-viz?
hawkinspeter wrote:
If not, I hope when Liam is feeling better he goes back with a can of fluro spray paint and draws the standard international pot-hole warning symbol around it.
Someone has been spray
Someone has been spray painting dog poop fluoro pink on the bit of the Basingstoke canal that is part of my morning commute.
Very public spirited of them
Very public spirited of them – I just hope you don’t get to work and a colleague asks what’s that pink stuff on your face (or you’ve still got the pooguards fitted!).
If the PM himself is totally
If the PM himself is totally in favour of cycling, and we are in a parliamentary admitted climate crisis, how the hell does anyone, even the petrolheads at Highways England, justify filling in potentially vital cycling links?
Please sign the petition if you haven’t already.
Unfortunately the petition
Unfortunately the petition doesn’t explain what’s wrong or what should be done differently. By the sound of it, restoring these bridges properly costs a lot. Infilling is cheap, and removing it doesn’t significantly add to the cost of restoring them later if necessary. It may even be cheaper to infill the bridge and add a new cycle bridge over the road, given the different loads involved.
Are they actually blocking existing routes? That would be very odd, I agree.
@Dave Dave.
@Dave Dave.
I think you have the wrong end of the stick.
Its my understanding that the bridges generally arent in immediate need of repairing and thats the main reason HE are being called out for abuse of their emergency powers. They are also applying a higher than necessary (or existing) weight limit as an excuse for “danger”. It smacks of a quick and dirty fix for a longer term problem.
Also I believe most of the potential routes go “though” the infilled bits, so its going to be a lot harder/impossible to safely seperate existing bridge stone/concrete from infill concrete after the fact.
Secret_squirrel wrote:
What is the supposed motivation for HE engaging in the conspiracy you suggest?
As for removing infill later, it’s largely compacted aggregate. It really won’t be particularly difficult to do. Digging out concrete is harder, but not by enough to matter on the scale of work involved in restoring a bridge.
Is it possible that our disagreement is based on you drastically underestimating the amount of work involved in fixing a masonry bridge?
GIYF Highways England
GIYF Highways England Musgrave bridge… http://www.railwayramblers.org.uk/10th-jun-2021-latest-press-release-from-hre-group-ongoing-infilling-of-great-musgrave-bridge-in-cumbria/
Awavey wrote:
“Repointing would cost around £15-20K, whilst Highways England’s infilling work has a contract value of £124K.”
ROFL. So this entire story is based on someone dropping a couple of zeros from the cost of restoration. That’s a laughably wrong figure. 250k-2.5m is about the right ballpark; depends what needs doing, but obviously it’s not just repointing (which alone costs far more than infill).
Dave Dave wrote:
the road bridge goes over the redundant railway, and now any future cycle route should go over the road? climing 5m out of the cutting and then a further 5.5m to clear the road.
seems very inefficient.
Bridge in the photo looks perfectly sound in not in danger of collapse, unless highways england has an agenda for increasing the weight limit of the bridge (on what appears to be a small rural lane) to allow larger vehicles.
And breaking out any infill is likely to have more impact on the strength of the bridge than leaving it alone, meaning no route wil be possible in the future.
It’s a scandal that these transport corridors are being lost.
“Bridge in the photo looks
“Bridge in the photo looks perfectly sound in not in danger of collapse”
Lol. Structural engineering is a bit harder than that.
The petition mentions that the bridge needs major works.
I don’t think digging out infill is hard. Not compared to fixing the bridge properly.
Thing is, we have these legacy bridges where it was cheaper and easier to pass a train under a road, and now the train isn’t there anymore. It is far cheaper to turn the bridge into an embankment and send cyclists over the top. Going up and down 5m isn’t a problem with nice long approaches.
It just doesn’t seem to make sense to choose a very expensive option instead of far cheaper ones that achieve the same things (to a close approximation). It is daft to spend large amounts of money now just in case in future there might be a reason to, when it’s no more expensive to spend tge money then.
Dave Dave wrote:
just going up 5m, means the cycle route now has a level crossing with the road, where currently it could have grade seperation.
If the bridge is not sound, I do not believe that an aggregate infill below the bridge is an adequate long term solution. Concreting the space could be, but then it would be much mroe difficult to remove.
As to the justification, perhaps short term money saving and avoiding additional transport routes added to their manintenance burden.
Once these routes are lost they will never come back into service.
wycombewheeler wrote:
Yes, silly of me. Up to double that. Although that’s the worst-case scenario, and it’s still a comparable gradient to major London bridges with reasonable-length approaches.
I wonder if there’s a compromise involving infill packed around a new, cyclist-sized concrete arch.
Evidently structural engineering is counter-intuitive here. A big pile of gravel, with sides banked at less than the angle of repose, is very stable indeed. They don’t just pack the archway, they bank it up either side too. Doing so is radically cheaper than fixing and maintaining the bridge.
If anyone’s interested, there’s a very readable introductory book on the subject:
Dave Dave wrote:
If they were doing that I wouldn’t complain. When we are only talking about infilling a bridge rather than a long tunnel it could potentially be formed from a relatively small number of 2.4m precast rings
Dave Dave wrote:
Didn’t seem to have gone down well with the publication of the institution of civil engineers
wycombewheeler wrote:
Yes, silly of me. Up to double that. Although that’s the worst-case scenario, and it’s still a comparable gradient to major London bridges with reasonable-length approaches.
I wonder if there’s a compromise involving infill packed around a new, cyclist-sized concrete arch.
Evidently structural engineering is counter-intuitive here. A big pile of gravel, with sides banked at less than the angle of repose, is very stable indeed. They don’t just pack the archway, they bank it up either side too. Doing so is radically cheaper than fixing and maintaining the bridge.
If anyone’s interested, there’s a very readable introductory book on the subject:
— Dave Dave https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/infilling-historic-bridges-is-so-unnecessary-an-alternative-solution-for-highways-england-07-07-2021/ Didn’t seem to have gone down well with the publication of the institution of civil engineers— wycombewheeler
And there’s this, in the Grauniad:
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/jul/21/highways-england-may-have-to-reverse-act-of-cultural-vandalism
In some cases such as the
In some cases such as the Bradford to Halifax tunnel it is because HE are responsible for the structure and pumping out water that enters the tunnel this is very small cost but comes from HE budget. The cost of infill is far greater but removes the need for inspections and checking equipment. I do not know why they are being so irresponsible when they know the structures will be developed for other uses it is probably as they have argued for a budget to carry out the work and must use it for this purpose. They are now a ‘semi-private’ company whose shares are owned by the Government ? with a five year plan and seem very dogmatic irrespective of the cost to others or damage that any actions will create.
nikkispoke wrote:
Quite. Ongoing costs for restoring the bridge are a big part of what makes it expensive.
I’ve already said I don’t think they are being irresponsible, because this doesn’t add significantly to the cost of doing something else later. And I wonder if their mandate permits doing anything else? It seems pretty clear that an unbiased comparison of the costs vastly favours this approach.
I’m pretty sure HE’s structure is analogous to Network Rail (and other similar infrastructure bodies). They are an arm’s-length government-owned company. Setting it up that way is about management philosophies (and/or politics), not ownership.
We’ve seen that the campaigners against the work are drastically underestimating the costs of what they want, so there’s no real mystery. It’s much, much cheaper in the long run to do this now, even if it means digging out the infill later.
The example I provided was a
The example I provided was a tunnel which requires water pumped out at very little cost (less than the typical cost of borrowing money to carry out capital work in normal years ie not with 0 % interest). To remove any infill for a tunnel is very expensive and difficult. The organisation that objects to HE activities includes structural engineers who understand how such structures work, likely remaining life and have stated individual structures that are in a reasonable condition. HE are being irresponsible as they are risking damage to the structure carrying out the infill work, loose stone does not provide any support to a structure above as stone settles. It only reduces the impact should such a structure fail. Equally if done properly the infill may aid a structure however many authorities have valid plans that may be jeapordised by HE actions. If they had sought agreement to protect and support the structures my reply would be different but they seem to be acting in a high handed independant manner without consultation and permissions.
Dave Dave wrote:
On the other hand, Highways England seem to be drastically underestimating the value of keeping the routes open, with a typical assumption that walking and cycling, unlike driving, are essentially valueless activities, which fatally skews their cost-benefit analysis.
Yikes. Best wishes to Liam
Yikes. Best wishes to Liam GWS.
He should have stuck to hill climbs (as per his latest vid), maybe its just me but I cant go fast enough up hills to hurt myself on pot holes. 😉
Much as I like the Anna
Much as I like the Anna Holligan piece, I’m not sure its a good thing. Presuming she is riding the bike herself, and its not a closed streeet for filming, and there’s no stoker out of shot its a bit irresponsible, and far worse than say taking a phone call. Imagine the reaction from this site if she did it whilst driving a car.
Interesting point… I’ve
Interesting point… I’ve only seen two videos, but:
She’s not really interacting with the device, is she? Presumably the two cameras are mounted on the handlebar and she starts them at the beginning of the ride, and she just chats away and edits them later. So technically it’s more like the helmet/handlebar camera videos (without all the swearing and shouting in the UK). She’s not looking at a screen or manipulating the device.
That she talks about world politics is not really an issue, we all think about all sorts of things or chat (if in a group) when we cycle on quiet paths and it doesn’t stop us from paying attention, and you can see her interacting with other road users and the environment just like any cyclist would. Presumably when something on the roads needs more of her attention she would intuitively stop talking and edit that out later.
Anna Holligan not wearing hi
Anna Holligan not wearing hi-viz or a helmet – has she got some sort of death wish? Totally irresponsable!!! (Tongue firmly planted in cheek).
I had the misfortune to hear
I had the misfortune to hear the R4 item with Mr Loophole and the other lawyer, and it was pretty pathetic, and I can understand why Carlton Reed turned it down.
The worst thing is that the BBC do these populist, car-centric, entirely without merit articles but they have never, to my knowledge, done a single article on the benefits of cycling, individual, local, national and global, despite Nick Robinson saying that he was a cyclist himself.
It starts at 2:21:37 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000wyt9
It’s insidious. It almost
It’s insidious. It almost does not matter who “wins” the debate here. The question debated sets the agenda. The best the cycling lobby can hope for in such an agenda is to avoid “taking a hit”. It would take a debater of rare talent to turn this question on its head and actually reframe the debate. But the BBC can fein ignorance and say they had “for and against”, impartiality is served.
Sriracha wrote:
There was another article on R4 this evening (approximately 17:22) about the traffic rebounding since covid, with deliveries, public transport and driving discussed for about 6 or 7 minutes, but guess which mode of transport didn’t even get a mention, despite the fact that it has mushroomed in the last year?*
*No prizes.
Sriracha wrote:
Isn’t it time that all the cycling groups got together and made an official complaint to the BBC governers? This has gone on for far too long, forty years at least, and isn’t getting any better.
No, the last thing cycling
No, the last thing cycling groups need is to ruin their credibility by saying insane shit like ‘the BBC is biased against us’. Get a grip.
Cycling groups should
Cycling groups should probably work on influencing rather than bashing.
But let’s see which other groups claim BBC bias and how it’s going for them…
Brexiteers: got their wish but still seem to want more
SNP: near-monopoly of power in Scotland
Right wing of the Tory party: pretty happy at the moment, with immense influence over the past 10+ years
R Murdoch esq.
All the right of centre press: still going despite the headwinds the industry faces (and conveniently hypocritical about Bashir)
I can’t actually think of a group that has suffered by bashing the BBC. What it really needs is honest feedback and a few reminders of the need for balance, but there are plenty of people who’d be glad to see the back of an organisation that is at least broadly aimed at impartiality.
TheBillder wrote:
I can think of a group that has suffered a bashing by the BBC;Labour under Corbyn.
As someone who has given the BBC feedback for something like forty years, with very pointed reminders about balance and bias, I can assure you that it is a complete, total and utter waste of time. As Kate Adie said in her book, the BBC complaints system exists for the sole purpose of exonerating its employees.
Dave Dave wrote:
Siri, what’s the definition of Poe’s Law?
What it is time for, is for
What it is time for, is for any cycling group asked onto public media to put forward a coherent, properly prepared spokesperson. The R4 segment was cringeworthy from the pro cycling point of view and Nick Freeman should be the easiest shill for the car lobby to destroy in any argument surrounding road safety and risks to pedestrians.
Surely we have been mis
Surely we have been mis-spelling Nick Freeman’s nickname for quite some time now. He is quite clearly “Mr Poophole”, given that all of his thinking and spoken words seem to emanate from his sphincter.
mpdouglas wrote:
I’m sure top lawyer, multi-millionaire and king of the handles Nick Freeman will feel humiliated by your astonishingly quick-witted and astute put-down.
But perhaps bored by some
But perhaps bored by some pointless trolling which followed it?