Pro cyclists De Gendt and Wellens on another epic end-of-year trip; LA Thanksgiving traffic; Bradford, Brum, Torbay – least cycle-friendly towns?; Best cyclist cafés; Dowsett, Argos catalogue model + more on live blog
SUMMARY
Morning!
Welcome to Thursday’s live blog.
Why ride a regular bicycle when you can ride this monstrosity? from r/nextfuckinglevel
Alex Dowsett was NOT a pastry chef
But he says he was a model for the Argos catalogue.
Contrary to popular belief, @alexdowsett confirmed to me he never trained as a pastry chef.
The Argos catalogue modelling, however, is all true. pic.twitter.com/9V0n93XtIs
— Joseph Robinson (@joeprobinson) November 27, 2019
Congestion in Delft
Heavy traffic reported leaving the Delft train station. Expect delays of up to 1 minute. pic.twitter.com/egesAjqIQb
— Lennart Nout (@lennartnout) November 26, 2019
Is your town the least cycle-friendly town in the country?
We reported yesterday how Stevenage had become the latest town to launch a ‘crackdown’ on cyclists riding in the town centre.
Neighbourhood Inspector Simon Tabert described Stevenage as “a very cycle friendly town” despite it being one of several to have implemented a Public Space Protection Order banning people from riding a bike in certain areas.
All the same, Stevenage isn’t an out-and-out cycling-unfriendly town. There are definitely worse places to (try and) ride a bike.
So where’s worse? We’d like to know.
Is your town the least cycle-friendly town in the country? Why?
There doesn’t need to be a ban. It could just as easily be as a result of poor infrastructure, bad attitudes or something else. If you think you’ve got a case and you’ve got examples, please send them our way.
Leave a comment, tweet us @roadcc or email us at info@road.cc
Worcester
#worcester is discussing £100 fines for cycling in the city centre. But we do have the occasional painting of a bike on the road to help. That’s about the total infrastructure invested in since the 90’s
— dan martyr (@danmartyr) November 28, 2019
Cyclist cafés of the year
Velolife was named People’s Choice Café of the Year yesterday.
Here are the other winners.
The #CyclistCafeOfTheYear in England is… The Feed Station in Somerset Watch the video featuring our ambassador @angellicabell as she explains what makes this lovely café so popular with the cycling community.
Massive congratulations from all of us at Cycling UK. pic.twitter.com/JcZF4ynATF
— Cycling UK (@WeAreCyclingUK) November 28, 2019
The #CyclistCafeOfTheYear in Scotland is… Lanterne Rouge in East Lothian Watch this video featuring @angellicabell to find out what made this café a worthy winner!
Big congratulations on this well-deserved award from all of us at Cycling UK. pic.twitter.com/eqiJJyLlrX
— Cycling UK (@WeAreCyclingUK) November 27, 2019
The #CyclistCafeOfTheYear in Wales is… Pedal Power in Cardiff @PedalPower_Diff Hear from our ambassador @angellicabell as she explains what makes this inclusive café a top choice for cyclists.
Huge well done from all of us at Cycling UK. pic.twitter.com/QQwovNHAgJ
— Cycling UK (@WeAreCyclingUK) November 27, 2019
The #CyclistCafeOfTheYear in Northern Ireland is… The Auction Room in Derry Londonderry
Watch the video featuring our ambassador @angellicabell to learn what makes this café an ideal space for cyclists to refuel!
Big well done from all of us at Cycling UK. pic.twitter.com/eCMOIkUdIu
— Cycling UK (@WeAreCyclingUK) November 28, 2019
Is York the nation's worst town/city for cycling?
A nomination for York from the comments as we seek to establish the least cycle-friendly town in the country (see further down the page).
A bonus mention for “all major cities in Indonesia” as well. We’re primarily focusing on the UK, but we’re of course interested in tales from further afield too.
Israel Cycling Academy to race on Factor Bikes in 2020
Israel Cycling Academy will ride Factor’s O2 VAM Disc and ONE Disc during the 2020 season, debuting at the Tour Down Under in January.
The team will also be running Black Inc. components, including the full range of wheels, seatposts, integrated barstems, computer mounts and bar tape. The bikes will also be equipped with Ceramic Speed bearings and oversized pulley wheel systems, Maxxis Tyres and Selle Italia saddles.
Rob Gitelis, Factor Bikes Owner said: “This is an exciting time for Factor as we make our return to the World Tour and we have a great team and partner in Israel Cycling Academy. We both share ambitions to compete on the world stage and do so with high performance bikes and equipment. ICA has been on an incredible journey and we are excited to be part of it. Factor is a global brand and the fact that the ICA has many nationalities represented within the team makes it a perfect fit.”
Sylvan Adams, Co-owner of ICA added:“Israel Cycling Academy is excited by our new partnership with Factor bikes. We will be riding their superior bikes to new heights in the World Tour next year. With the best equipment, we will reach for the top. Yalla, Factor, welcome to Israel Cycling Academy.”
Cycle speed dating at Look Mum No Hands
Are you a single cyclist? We’re hosting Cycle Speed Dating @cycle_dating from 3pm – 6pm on Sunday 8th Dec at 49 Old St This session is for women to date men. Tickets include a drink and multiple 3 min dates! https://t.co/HyexpOS9Nj pic.twitter.com/O93XnrFfQA
— Look mum no hands! (@1ookmumnohands) November 28, 2019
Is Leeds the nation's worst town/city for cycling?
Our own John Stevenson nominates his home town as we seek to establish the worst place for cycling in the UK.
Is Bradford the nation's worst town/city for cycling?
Responding to John’s comment immediately below, the little onion writes:
I think Mr Stevenson is being kind towards Leeds here. It is worse than he says.
But Bradford….. it makes Leeds look like Copenhagen. Truly, truly awful. Officially has the lowest modal share for cycling of any UK city (see stats here (link is external)). And this isn’t an accident or coincidence, but the result of a long period of sustained policy to make cycling as deeply unpleasant as possible.
Keep sending your nominations. Comment below, tweet us @roadcc or email us at info@road.cc
Rear light that was “playing up a little” contributed to fatal collision
A cyclist who lost her life after being hit from behind in Herefordshire last year wasn’t seen by the motorist because her rear light was out.
The Hereford Times reports that Pauline Towell had lights fitted to her e-bike, but the rear light had started “playing up a little”, sometimes turning off by itself.
Towell’s lights had been working when she left the branch of Morrison’s where she worked at around 6.30pm on September 28, but the rear light didn’t seem to be working when she was later seen by off-duty constable Alan Conway.
Conway said he considered stopping to speak to her, but was unable to do so due to traffic.
Shortly afterwards, Towell was hit while riding on the B4224 near Fownhope.
Driver Harry Sturgess said he hadn’t seen Towell and only became aware of her when his passenger, Daniel Williams, shouted a warning.
Williams said he only spotted her when they were just metres away.
An oncoming driver said Sturgess could not have swerves out of the way as it would have meant hitting cars on the other side of the road.
A crash investigator concluded that Towell would have been very difficult to see due to a combination of factors, including her dark clothing and oncoming headlights.
"That is just a giant parking lot"
Thanksgiving (motor) traffic in LA.
1970’s: one lane will fix it
1980’s: one more lane will fix it
1990’s: one more lane will fix it
2000’s: one more lane will fix it
2010’s: one more lane will fix it
2020’s: how stupid we have been
~@avelezigpic.twitter.com/pCtwzJXqAc
— Cycling Professor (@fietsprofessor) November 28, 2019
Is Torbay the nation's worst town/city for cycling?
Massive main roads are bad, but smaller roads can be bad too.
mr_pickles2 writes:
Hands down the worst place I’ve ever cycled is my home town’s area of Torbay in South Devon. I can imagine at least the nominated cities of Bradford and Leeds have roads that are for the most part wide: in Torbay, pretty much all the roads are one traffic lane in each direction and narrow, meaning that you end up with many people behind you who can’t pass easily…although the majority just go for it anyway beacuse giving a cyclist 40cm space is enough, right?
The area is also full of hills, with pretty much no flat parts at all except for two or so miles of seafront – great for building strength and stamina, but crap for when it’s hot and you’re cycling for transport (your slow speed also adds to the hatred from motorists behind you). There are no quiet back lanes or residential streets to avoid the main roads, and the “infrastructure” is either painted rubbish or shared paths – which are just ordinary pavements with some signs added, and one actually has a full steep flight of stairs on it with a handy “cyclists dismount” sign.
Motorists seem to hate anyone cycling, and I’ve had more and scarier close passes and near-misses than London, Bath and now where I live in Paris; I practically never had a ride that had no incidents with some w*nker. In my hometown of Brixham, there is literally no infrastrucure (painted or otherwise) at all, and the only flat route on the harbour front is strictly no cycling.
I’d take the cycling utopias of Bradford and Leeds over that anyday.
Is Birmingham the nation's worst town/city for cycling?
Sam makes a strong case, having suffered no fewer than five crashes in the last year…
I’d like to nominate Birmingham as the worst place in the UK to cycle.
There’s absolutely no infrastructure (save from one huge cycle lane that goes in a straight line vertically and one that goes in a straight line horizontally through the city) – which is ideal, but only if you’re going to where one of them goes.
Roads are either extremely narrow or extremely wide, which in my experience has me either being beeped at to move or close passed (on the narrow) or sped past with a car in each lane doing their best to induce cardiac arrest.
Last year I commuted by bike, covering 6,000 miles from north of the city to the south-east and suffered a broken arm, five crashes (a mix of being driven into once, some spills caused by people coming too close and forcing me into the kerb and my own good old fashioned stupidity).
I’ve noticed that for the most part, the prevailing attitude towards cyclists is that we are in the way and should be passed at any opportunity, no matter how dangerously. Though I do hasten to add that from my experience driving here, that applies to anyone going slower than the person behind’s desired speed, and I’ve had similar near misses in my car also (I don’t want to perpetuate the “us and them”).
Birmingham is making some progress, but none of the paths created join to anywhere (nor I think will they). To genuinely change I believe it needs to invest in infrastructure, but also put cycling on the map as a legitimate pastime for people other than hardcore cyclists through racing/clubs/events, thereby de-marginalising the cyclist and placing us back in the ‘actual human being’ pot with the rest of Birmingham’s residents.
Hong Kong Track World Cup on after pause in protests
Reuters reports that the Hong Kong leg of the Track Cycling World Cup will go ahead this weekend after a lull in violence across the city.
“We did have some worries before like many other event organisers in Hong Kong, but the World Cup will definitely go ahead now as the overall situation seems to be improving,” said Hong Kong Cycling Association Chairman Leung Hung-tak. “We have prepared some contingency plans but we don’t think we have to use them.”
He added: “Some of our ticket sales have not been that encouraging, possibly due to the social unrest.”
Live Stream Info for the track action in Hong-Kong
Available on Facebook UCI & Youtube UCI*
From 09:00 CET
*Geo-blocking applies https://t.co/0p3TGPxKpM#TissotUCITrackWC pic.twitter.com/DqdkQeJDxB— UCI Track Cycling (@UCI_Track) November 28, 2019
Are Dorking, Chorley, Launceston or Worceter the nation’s worst town/city for cycling?
Yep Dorking rubbish despite the Olympics & Ride London. Few safe bike lanes, bike paths, nothing usable from satellite villages, narrow roads, roadside parking, virtually nowhere to safely leave your bike & so many car driving cyclist haters due to Ride London
— 1who bikes with beer (@BeerBiker) November 28, 2019
I recently tweeted about this! https://t.co/kxc95DScmy
— Jonny Mountain Scourger (@BorgJonny) November 28, 2019
Launceston – I am not aware of a single meter of cycle infrastructure – not even a shared path
— Colin Kilby (@ckilby01) November 28, 2019
I agree and they want to get rid of any tour of Britain stages both men and women and refuse to allow any sportive. Worcester is very anti cycling.
— Nick Broughall (@nickbroughall44) November 28, 2019
Thomas De Gendt and Tim Wellens are doing their end-of-year bikepacking trip again ...
The Lotto-Soudal pros are making an annual habit of this … click through to De Gendt’s Twitter feed for more videos of their journey.
Let me take you on a trip. #GoldenHour #thefinalbreakaway2 @Tim_Wellens @MontanasVacias @Lotto_Soudal pic.twitter.com/DQ6mX483lX
— Thomas De Gendt (@DeGendtThomas) November 28, 2019
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Latest Comments
Have put drop bars on a 2001 B1 mtb, a 2007 stumpy hardtail and a 2010 stumpy full suss. In all cases fairly basic conversións leaving gearing and wheels broadly the same and concentrating on correct positioning of bars and fit. Oddly, with all 3 I was happy with the result when recently done, but after a few months found that the extra speed on easy trails was more than offset by the lack of ability (probably mine) on tougher routes and finally preferred flat bar with slammed and inverted stem as best overall compromise. Good fun playing around, though.
The photos in this review look they are for a different bag?
This is a strange reactionary knee jerk overall. But what is this "are essentially motorbikes in disguise" waffle? "One letter claimed that high-powered electric ‘e-bikes’ were “essentially motorbikes” in disguise, with many being used without lights, helmets, or any hi-vis clothing." Surely, they simply ARE motorbikes?
I only watched the last one, that's enough for me! A punishment pass and a clueless passenger. Did you op snap that one?
I don't love the motorway comment. What if they're miles from a motorway? The get in the cycle lane comment is born out of ignorance from people who never cycle. I would just tell them the reason: It's full of broken glass, wet leaves, etc. I'm turning right. I'd have to keep stopping and then rejoining the road. I'd have to keep giving way. It's full of pedestrians. Etc. Or simply ask if they have tried it and leave it at that.
@Chris RideFar In any of the offered options (Amazon, Apple or Spotify) there are transcript buttons that will give you a transcript if you wish. I think as road.cc has a limited staff and budget and most people enjoy it free, asking them to provide everything just the way we want it is perhaps a bit much?
I don't come to road.cc for podcasts. Where is the text version of this article? Or at least a simple transcript, please.
My convertible mtb uses a Chinese carbon version of the Surley corner bars. Needed a different stem to adjust the position (a smaller frame size would have worked better) converted to 2x from 1x to give a better range for the road. Using the same brakes and shifters makes it a quick simple swap.
@mctrials23 Hmm; Citing data that google suggests is from a single hospital... A hospital that looks to be in the middle of a city so will have a massively disproportionate chunk of said injuries and doesn't get the biggest cause of traumatic head injury (car crashes) because there are far easier to get to A&E departments... (Though will note that the data probably does support investigation, at least into mandatory helmets for children given high rate of beginners etc. Plausibly also supports offering training in schools and building better facilities)
@Mr Blackbird Hmm my goat is clad in carbon-based polymer and has the noted undercarriage certainly, but seems to be missing the jets and screens? Would the Old Billy still seize it do you think? If they find it among a herd of sheep how can I prove it's not being concealed but is a legal Electively Assorted Pally Caprid?
31 thoughts on “Pro cyclists De Gendt and Wellens on another epic end-of-year trip; LA Thanksgiving traffic; Bradford, Brum, Torbay – least cycle-friendly towns?; Best cyclist cafés; Dowsett, Argos catalogue model + more on live blog”
I nominate York, a city
I nominate York, a city which apparently had visions of a cycle freindly future and so took millions in funding from Cycling England, after which the local Council made the city centre and all its arterial routes the most inaccesable places to be for cyclists. Even central London is easier to navigate round on a bike these days.
domats wrote:
Honestly, have you cycled in either place? York’s roads aren’t great but that’s due to the historic nature of the place, they’re narrow and not desgned for cars, there’s never going to be much getting around that. There’s a traffic free cycle and footpath that surrounds half the city, whicn isn’t bad going given it’s quite densely populated within the outer ring road.
I live here and cycle literally every day, and I almost never, ever get aggro from drivers, or close passed by a car. The last person to beep me was someone just letting me know my rear light wasn’t on. I can’t remember ever being close passed. I cycle to Leeds reasonably regularly, and the attitudes there are totally different. As someone has already alluded, there bugger all regard for cycling and cyclists there.
I reckon most, if not all
I reckon most, if not all major cities in Indonesia are not cycle-friendly. Why? Lack of adequate cycling infrastructure is one reason. Another is the heavy motorist-dominated traffic, coupled with the “bigger ride, more power/authority over other road users” mentality. Unless you ride very early and with a group, you’re better off Zwifting.
nandanavitas wrote:
I’m guessing Indonesia is still at the stage where not using a motor vehicle is a sign of lack of wealth and hence low-status? (And not at the point where that correlation has started to reverse, star-bellied-sneetch style…which, I’ve heard, is even starting to happen in China now). Which is I guess going to compound the might-is-right effect of the mass of the vehicle.
I nominate Lundy Island.
I nominate Lundy Island.
hawkinspeter wrote:
I’ll see your Lundy and raise you Steep Holm.
Bmblbzzz wrote:
I was stretching the idea of town with Lundy, but Steep Holm isn’t even inhabited.
Sydney, oh to be as good as
Sydney, oh to be as good as Sydney… I’m in Maitland, about 160km from Sydney where the best you can say is they tried, but shouldn’t have. This believe or not is the cycle path into the CBD from the east of the city:
https://road.cc/sites/default/files/2823F698-EA0E-4E3D-8A1E-97CFA665F222.jpeg
We have on road cycle lanes where parked cars take half the lane because the council didn’t make the parking wide enough for a car, the road isn’t wide enough for traffic, parking and bike lanes. We have the access to the bike path across double lines on a blind corner. We have gates across paths that are too small to fit a bike through. We’ve even got a bike lane that goes from the street the length of a house, onto a public reserve where cycling is banned. I’m waiting to see if they’ve heeded my advice for an intersection upgrade in my suburb, where they had no provision for bicycles despite there being paths across the bridge into the suburb, and on and off road paths for the next stage on a road from the intersection. You could not make this stuff up.
Come to think of it, that’s just situation normal in Australia.
Warren Row tried it’s hardest
Warren Row tried it’s hardest to be on the list.
Hands down the worst place I
Hands down the worst place I’ve ever cycled is my hometown’s area of Torbay in South Devon. I can imagine at least the nominated cities of Bradford and Leeds have roads that are for the most part wide: in Torbay, pretty much all the roads are one traffic lane in each direction and narrow, meaning that you end up with many people behind you who can’t pass easily…although the majority just go for it anyway beacuse giving a cyclist 40cm space is enough, right?
The area is also full of hills, with pretty much no flat parts at all except for two or so miles of seafront – great for building strength and stamina, but crap for when it’s hot and you’re cycling for transport (your slow speed also adds to the hatred from motorists behind you). There are no quiet back lanes or residential streets to avoid the main roads, and the “infrastructure” is either painted rubbish or shared paths – which are just ordinary pavements with some signs added, and one actually has a full steep flight of stairs on it with a handy “cyclists dismount” sign.
Motorists seem to hate anyone cycling, and I’ve had more and scarier close passes and near-misses than London, Bath and now where I live in Paris; I practically never had a ride that had no incidents with some w*nker. In my hometown of Brixham, there is literally no infrastrucure (painted or otherwise) at all, and the only flat route on the harbour front is strictly no cycling.
I’d take the cycling utopias of Bradford and Leeds over that anyday.
mr_pickles2 wrote:
I vote for Bournemouth/Poole
I vote for Bournemouth/Poole/Christchurch conurbation and the New Forest. Both areas hate cyclists. Just check the local rags. The drivers here actively try to kill cyclists
Quote:
O. M. F. G.
Quote:
OK, so her rear light wasnt working. What is his excuse for his headlights apparently not working?
Quick point of order, in this
Quick point of order, in this era of fake news. That’s not ‘thanksgiving traffic’. That’s just ‘traffic’ – I first saw that tweet about a fortnight ago.
Insane.
Zebulebu wrote:
There have been similar tweets. CBS posted this footage yesterday: https://www.facebook.com/CBSLA/videos/2478782192346483/
My deepest sympathies to the
My deepest sympathies to the family and friends of Pauline Heather Towell.
I must have a quick post to
I must have a quick post to defend Brum a little bit, when I left, admittedly in ’03, I thought that the average west midland driver was somewhat more inclined to be nicer to me on the bicycle than the average driver in Reading, where I moved and continued my commuting. Oddly I rode on part of the NCN 5 as a section of my commute in both places. It starts as an offshoot of the NCN 4 at the pedestrian (and cycle) horseshoe bridge over the Kennet where it hits the Thames.
I put it down to a lot of the Birmingham drivers were driving around the city, whearas most of the Reading drivers were driving into the town.
ktache wrote:
Isn’t Brum the latest hotpsot of drive-by shoves?
I’ll nominate Sevenoaks, both
I’ll nominate Sevenoaks, both the town and the wider district council, although I would appreciate there are probably much worse areas. Considering the number of recreational cyclists that travel through the area, there is basically no cycle specific infrastructure at all. The roads in and around the town are in an appalling condition in places, apparently deliberately kept so to deter cycling as any attempt to get the council to repair any defects results in no action and a reply that the defect is within tolerance/limits. Essentially, unless the defect is likely to damage one of the many 4×4/SUVs that dominate the area, they arnt interested.
Whilst they proudly proclaim there are 60 bike parking spaces in the main town station, if you want to visit the shops (why would you, there is nothing worthwhile there anyway) you have a 3/4 mile uphill walk to get there, as there are only a handful of places to secure a bike in the town centre.
I don’t know if it is of
I don’t know if it is of interest to anyone, but HexLox are doing a 25% off thing for Black Friday.
I was happy to get 10% off through StolenRide.
They are also doing a new Black range.
Shockingly expensive tiny magnets, so getting anything off is nice.
So far none of my expensive and protected bits have gone missing.
“An oncoming driver said
“An oncoming driver said Sturgess could not have swerves out of the way as it would have meant hitting cars on the other side of the road.”
I’m sure that many years ago as a learner driver I was taught that the correct thing to do in this situation would be to swerve out of the way, as hitting an oncoming car would be less likely to cause a fatality than hitting the cyclist. Whether I would do the correct thing in a split second decision is another matter, but I hope I would. But how depressing that this driver seems to think that a cyclist’s life is worth less than damage to a car.
Today’s letter to the editor
Today’s letter to the editor with comments suggesting close passes and sounding horn at cyclists nit using cycle lanes https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18068691.letter-editor-cyclists-must-know-highway-code/
Pyro Tim wrote:
Quite a few pro-cyclist comments on there now, including mine; lots of fun.
burtthebike wrote:
Quite a few pro-cyclist comments on there now, including mine; lots of fun.— Pyro Tim
Yeah, some well penned responses now – you still get the occassional dick who writes stuff like “Given that most motorists break the law every time they get in their car” to bring it all back down to the level of the idiots that wrote the piece in the first place – but hey…
fukawitribe wrote:
Hardly – it’s only a slight exaggeration.
Even if you restrict it to speeding, more than half of drivers on 30mph roads are breaking 30mph limits, by the DoT figures, and about a 1/3 admit to exceeding the limit by over 5mph at least once a week according to the Brake survey.
Then add in all the dodgy MOTs, use of hand-held mobiles, breaking the rules on emissions (which would include about half of all new diesel cars, according to that last story), those lacking insurance etc, and the very very common illegal parking (e.g. blocking pavements, which is absolutely routine on all the streets round me – as soon as parking is permitted on one bit of the pavement motorists decide they can park on the whole length and width of it). and, I don’t see why it’s being a ‘dick’ to state what is pretty much a fact.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/812500/vehicle-speed-compliance-statistics-2018.pdf
https://www.brake.org.uk/assets/docs/dl_reports/DLreport-Speed-section2-urbanroads-2013.pdf
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/23/diesel-cars-pollution-limits-nox-emissions
It may well be just a slight
It may well be just a slight exaggeration, but an exaggeration none the less, you’re right – or not – but introduced as it was, it will only serve to antagonise rather than inform (as some of their subsequent post did) – but as per your links, statistics are tricky even if their comment was based on any; which is doesn’t look like it did.
Just taking the first study
* it’s car journeys, not drivers
* is not to be taken as representative of national figures or behaviours (according to the study itself)
* is dependent on when sampled (lower violations during the week apparently).
I’m not claiming that it’s all fine, it’s not – it’s shit especially the 20mph offences, but when you make a deliberately provocative statement while trying to educate people (as the post seemed to want to do) then it’s (a) maybe worth backing it up and (b) not generally a constructive move in general – unsurprisingly – and that’s what I meant about bringing things back down to a level.
How about that last comment
How about that last comment about anybody over 40 wearing lycra should be fined. I’m all for it provided that any fat bastard caught driving a car is also heavily fined. £10 a kilo?
I;m not going to bother
I;m not going to bother commenting on the newspaper site, well done burt.
I notice the original letter is from a secretary of a Porsche owners club, paragons of roadcraft virtue porsche drivers, especially when it comes to the observance of speed limits
ktache wrote:
And one of the responses details the law-breaking by local Porsche drivers.
Except, of course there are
Except, of course there are the 85% of motorists who, if given the opportunity, will break the 20mph speed limit.
Now 85% is a sort of definition of most isn’t it?