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Strava in spotlight again as Preston's Guild Wheel creator says "poser" cyclists endanger others using shared path

Similar concerns were raised by Sustrans last year over Strava KOM chasers elsewhere

Peter Ward, the man who helped devise the Guild Wheel off-road shared path that loops around Preston in Lancashire has described cyclists who use it to chase records on Strava segments as “posers” who endanger other users of the facility – and also says that the social network and ride-tracking site encourages reckless riding on the public highway.

His comments echo concerns raised last year by Sustrans that Strava users were riding at inappropriate speeds on shared-use facilities it manages such as the Bristol & Bath Railway Path, the Two Tunnels Parkway in Bath, and one running through the Ashton Court Estate in Bristol.

It has considered placing barriers at the latter location to force riders to cut their speed, and has drawn up a code of conduct for cyclists on shared-use paths.

The 21-mile, three-metre wide Guild Wheel cycle and walking path, which is designated as National Cycle Route 622, was opened in 2012 as one of eight legacy projects of that year’s Preston Guild.

Established by royal charter in 1179, the Preston Guild was initially held every few years on an irregular pattern but has taken place every 20 years since 1542, other than 1942 when it was cancelled due to World War II, resuming in 1952.

The Guild Wheel route links five existing Sustrans routes, and the sustainable transport charity was among the backers of the project under its School Links programme.

But Ward, one of the creators of the Guild Wheel and given an MBE last year for services to cycling, author of the 1970 book King of Sports, A Textbook on Cycle Road Racing and who held a Cat-1 licence for years, says that riders going too fast on the Guild Wheel – and on public roads – as they look to set the fastest Strava segment times are spoiling it for others.

“The Guild Wheel was never intended as a race track and neither were the city’s streets,” he told the Lancashire Evening Post, which has produced a map based on information on Strava that shows various segments together with the number of cyclists attempting them and the fastest times set.

Segments have also been created on Strava for the entire route, with the record for the whole, 21-mile circuit standing at a shade over 1 hour 8 minutes.

“To me these cyclists are just posers,” Ward maintained. “If they want to race and see how they compare to other riders then there are plenty of organised races, especially time trials, they could enter which are properly marshalled and supervised.

“The Guild Wheel was designed as a leisure route. Yet these cyclists are bombing round there trying to set the best time and putting other people in danger. There is going to be a serious accident.”

Last July, Sustrans’ chief executive, Malcolm Shepherd, said: “Traffic-free walking and cycling paths are not the place for reckless cycling speed demons; they cater to a variety of users by providing a safe, non-threatening environment to travel in.

“The anti-social behaviour of a very small number of cyclists is making everyone feel less safe – it would be great for the online community to take action by pointing the finger at people doing the wrong thing.

“As we continue to campaign for greater respect on our roads, its vital those of us using bikes give respect to everyone, and slow down on walking and cycling paths.”

CTC’s campaigns and policy director, Roger Geffen, said at the time: ““CTC strongly supports responsible behaviour by all road users, drivers and cyclists alike.

“Equally though, walkers can feel as intimated by fast cycling on shared-use paths as cyclists are by fast driving.

“In particular, people with physical or sensory disabilities have a right to enjoy the great outdoors without being startled, even if they aren’t actually endangered.

“As cyclists, we need to show them the same respect that we want drivers to show us on the roads.”

While most responsible cyclists would agree that shared-use paths are not suitable for riding at full pelt due to the presence of pedestrians, including people with children and dog walkers, where Ward’s views are likely to get less sympathy is his insistence that there’s no place for riding fast on the public highway either.

“I’m all for cycle racing, it’s a terrific sport,” he said. “But it has to be in controlled circumstances and, from the sound of it, there aren’t many safeguards doing it this way.

“On the open road you never know when a pedestrian or a car is going to come out in front of you. I dread to think what could happen if there was a collision. Someone could be killed.”

One place highlighted by the Lancashire Evening Post as inappropriate for riding fast is the 400-metre long driveway to the town’s crematorium, where a top speed of 29mph has been logged on the social network. According to Strava data, the segment has been ridden more than 3,000 times.

Strava has been accused in the past of encouraging people to ride their bikes recklessly as they try to gain King of the Mountain (KOM) status for setting the fastest time on a specific segment.

Last June, a judge dismissed a lawsuit brought in California by the family of 41-year-old William ‘Kim’ Flint, killed when he collided with a car on a downhill stretch of road while apparently trying to regain a KOM that had been beaten by another rider.

The following month, 37-year-old cyclist Chris Bucchere was sentenced to 1,000 hours of community service and three years’ probation after he hit a pedestrian who later died from his injuries.

Bucchere was riding downhill and went through a red traffic light while trying to better his own Strava KOM time in San Frascisco’s Castro district in March 2012, colliding with 71-year-old Sutchi Hui, who was crossing the road.

A spokesman for Strava told the Lancashire Evening Post: “To provide some insight into how Strava works, athletes on Strava can create what we call segments (essentially a stretch of road or trail) to see how they compare to others who took the same route.

“As our community of athletes creates these segments, we also give them the tools to self-regulate by allowing them to “flag” any segment they believe to be hazardous.”

We’ve looked at the Guild Wheel segments in question on Strava, and it does not appear that any have been flagged to Strava yet.

The spokesman added: “Every cyclist is responsible for their own safety and the safety of those around them. We ask all Strava athletes to exercise common sense when they are running and riding and to encourage good behaviour within our community.”

 

Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.

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57 comments

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FluffyKittenofT... | 10 years ago
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I _do_ think that the existence of Strava is 'sort-of, kinda, partly' to blame, as it gives the irresponsible an incentive to be inconsiderate.

But once the internet and GPS came into existence, something like Strava was absolutely inevitable so it seems pointless to get annoyed at this particular version of the concept.

Surprised there isn't a Strava for runners/pedestrians (or is there?). And I hope to God there isn't and won't be an equivalent for drivers.

Anyway, the more fundamental problem is the reliance on dubious 'shared paths' for cycle infrastructure.

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Posh | 10 years ago
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Yet another example of individuals pursuing their own agenda without any real consideration for other legitimate users of the facility.
Sign up to the following E-Petition:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/57804

It's designed to get people thinking of the consequences of their actions........Nothing more. It's not out to stigmatise anyone just to emphasise the fact that these are "shared" facilities, and not for dominance by those who operate bigger/faster machines.

Safe and Happy Cycling
Peter

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nnaylordaven | 10 years ago
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I have ridden the guild wheel 50time + and havent come across any racers or anybody clashing with pedestrians, it is a good route for all class of cyclist

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hairyairey | 10 years ago
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Interesting idea mentioned above - cycle only routes. Leicester has "New Walk" - a road where only walking is allowed. I think Milton Keynes and Stevenage have cycle only routes - can't think of them anywhere else.

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greenjersey | 10 years ago
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Selling Wardy short describing him as a first cat rider. He was a whisker away from being National road champion.

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PhilJC | 10 years ago
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I've done the wheel about 10 times now with my kids. Never seen anyone really going for it though. As for averaging 25mph or more I doubt that its possible. The authors comments about the crematorium road don't ring quite true either - I've yet to see anyone or any other vehicle on that stretch in all the times I've ridden it. The only time I've seen riders going a bit too quick was when I've been down in Avenham Park for the weekly park run. Lots of runners and a few riders passing a bit too quickly - certainly not over 20mph though. It is however, sign posted as a 5mph limit for cyclists, of course most of the runners will be going quicker than this! Bit of a storm in a tea cup - maybe a few riders giving cyclists a bad name, so nothing new.

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andyp | 10 years ago
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Strava is great for competing against *yourself*.
Not against *others*.
This is what racing is for.

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davegreen70 | 10 years ago
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I cycle the wheel regularly and parts of it as my daily commute an think it's a great ride. I also use Strava, mainly as a means to track my ongoing mileage.

I agree fully with the common sense messages above about tolerance & sharing the space (be it shared paths or the road)with others and wish that some pedestrians/motorist/other cyclists would also share this approach - for the record and to avoid generalisation there are also pedestrians/motorists and other cyclists who do.

Given the changing surfaces, blind corners, hills, roundabouts and gates the wheel is never going to make a great flat out ride (1:08 is a heck of a time). There are times when parts of the wheel is mobbed, which is great because often these are kids out riding with their parents and this can only be good as these could be future cyclists/commuters etc.

There are also times when we have met nobody when riding it and of course the time taken to get round reduces significantly. This doesn't mean we are racing, it just means we haven't encountered traffic or pedestrians.

For what it's worth whilst commuting & enjoying the wheel/shared paths I've made more use of my bell than I ever thought I would when I added it to the bike a couple of years ago. Although we do still get 'how dare you ride along here' looks from some, for the most part the bell (along with a 'Thanks you' after passing) gets a better response that 'Excuse me' ever did.

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arfa | 10 years ago
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There will always people who need to somehow arrange a common sense transplant and strava itself is not the problem. I find it a useful training/analysis tool but if you use it at the expense of your judgement then you will end up paying a heavy price.
For what it's worth, shared use paths should be flagged as they are not the place to drop the hammer.

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gazza_d | 10 years ago
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I use strava and I also use shared paths.

As others state, Strava is just a tool. I use it to monitor my fitness over time.

Yea I do put the foot down on empty paths, but only ever when the path I can see is empty. As soon as I see someone I slow down and move over, and give pedestrians time to move. If the path is narrow I hold back.

The key here is just being responsible. As ever there are a handful which aren't regardless.

I am sick of this public infighting and people within the cycling community attacking other cyclists in this manner. We need to present a public united front as there are enough cycling-haters out there as it is.

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Dizzy | 10 years ago
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I use Strava, I started when I was raising money to buy my disabled son a special bike, it was the easiest way to show my miles to my sponsors.
As I upped my mileage & bought a better bike, it was a great way to monitor my fitness and see my own improvements.
I never set out to get QOMs, but am quite chuffed when one pops up, if I lose them I don't go out & try to retake them.
But one thing I have noticed around where I live, there are some QOM/KOMs that are AMAZING!
Some I have had serious doubts over, knowing the roads & cycle paths they are on I cannot see how they could have been done at that speed without running redlights or playing dodgems with other cyclists & pedestrians.
At a recent meeting of cyclists I overheard a chap bragging of his latest KOM, so out of curiosty I looked it up when I got home..It appears he holds many of the local ones, and all with a huge gap between his times & the next rider - He goes out at 3-5am, when there is no-one on the paths, little traffic on the roads & he admitted that as there is no traffic he doesn't stop for lights
Ok that's his perogative, but by setting these amazing times, I know of others that are going out to try beat him, and they won't be out at 5am, they'll be at a time when there are people on the paths, cars on the road, they will be endangering themselves & others to try and beat times that is pretty much impossible.
..... Call me a spoilsport, but I flagged several of his segments, simply because I felt they were encouraging others to speed along them & posing a danger to anyone else using them.

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parksey replied to Dizzy | 10 years ago
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Dizzy wrote:

Call me a spoilsport, but I flagged several of his segments, simply because I felt they were encouraging others to speed along them & posing a danger to anyone else using them.

Clever thinking!  41

I don't personally understand the obsession with this anonymous type of competition offered by Strava.

Surely if you want the recognition then get out and race properly. Or am I missing the point?

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andyp replied to parksey | 10 years ago
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parksey wrote:

I don't personally understand the obsession with this anonymous type of competition offered by Strava.

Surely if you want the recognition then get out and race properly. Or am I missing the point?

You are missing the point. You are also missing out on the misguided sense of achievement of 'beating' someone about whom you know nothing. You got up the hill faster than mystery person X. It doesn't matter that they may have been at the end of a 200km ride into a headwind, and have one leg, whereas you were towed up by your team at the start of a short fast ride. YOU BEAT THEM, damn it.

 3

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mrmo replied to andyp | 10 years ago
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andyp wrote:

It doesn't matter that they may have been at the end of a 200km ride into a headwind, and have one leg, whereas you were towed up by your team at the start of a short fast ride. YOU BEAT THEM, damn it.

 3

This to me is the flaw with Strava.

I use it to see how I am doing and get an idea of how my fitness is doing. However I am well aware that for most segments the times are not a matter of the rider, but depend on who the rider was with, the wind, other traffic etc.

I know one of my KOMs is 13 miles at an average of 26mph but I had a steady 25mph tail wind, the two riders positioned behind me were on an early season training ride in a group of 4-5 riders. Do either of these scenarios reflect my or their fitness? Then there are the riders going out using TT bikes!

If you treat it with a dose of sceptism is it really that different to sprinting for road signs? Time and place and IMO there is nothing wrong with it. Shared use paths, short segments with traffic lights, roundabout, etc in them! are stupid, and I have no qualms about flagging any segment I think is dangerous. On road or off. This includes on one occasion flagging the same (other kept creating it) 10 times because it was down a hill with a lot of horses using it.

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sodit replied to andyp | 10 years ago
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Yeah but who cares.

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to parksey | 10 years ago
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parksey wrote:
Dizzy wrote:

Call me a spoilsport, but I flagged several of his segments, simply because I felt they were encouraging others to speed along them & posing a danger to anyone else using them.

Clever thinking!  41

I don't personally understand the obsession with this anonymous type of competition offered by Strava.

Surely if you want the recognition then get out and race properly. Or am I missing the point?

I can't be bothered with it, myself, but I do think I might have gotten into it if I had been a lot younger when it appeared.

My sense is the appeal is getting the competitiveness in (whether with yourself or against anonymous others) in the course of your everyday utility cycling and combining it with journeys you already like doing. "Proper racing" presumably won't just fit in with where you happen to cycle anyway? Just like getting exercise through everyday travel is different from having to take up a sport or go to the gym.

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Leodis | 10 years ago
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If I have to use to the road for segments does this mean the slow 5mph nobbers who cycle dangerously slow (usually covered head to toe in HiViz and dozens of cheap lights) can be banned from the road and be forced onto cycle routes?

Rock n roll

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andyp | 10 years ago
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' It's simply a tool, as are most of the segment chasing muppets.'

Applause.

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ironmancole | 10 years ago
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I really can see the arguments for both sides...drivers are nutters and no-one gives a toss when a cyclist is killed so why do cyclists have to be different around people vulnerable to them as well as the more noble and higher moral stance of setting an example we hope drivers will someday follow around cyclists.

To my mind all of this is something of a distraction. Ultimately if cyclists weren't treated as legitimate vehicle fodder by society, the courts and your MP, people would be happier to use their share of the road in peace, free of the continual worry of being hit by a road tax shouting lout on the phone navigating with Google glasses and checking Facebook.

Whilst government continues to sit on its hands watching the slaughter of innocents we're faced with using what are essentially still glorified footpaths, given the fact that we have to share them with pedestrians and dogs.

Quite how cycling on a pavement in town is frowned upon but considered ok on an equivalent space with a special name is beyond me...the factors of pedestrians and cyclists potentially colliding are essentially identical.

Given that government is quite happy to throw millions of pounds per kilometre into motorways (purely for motorised traffic, not pedestrians) I have always felt on safety and equality grounds that cyclists should be extended the same opportunity with provision of cycling only roads forming a properly usable network between towns and cities that actually enable you to go training in peace.

These sustrans routes along tow paths and retail parks on glorified gravelways are all well and good but how is anyone supposed to enjoy a hard ride on them?

245,000 miles of roads on the UK network but can I find a single traffic free segment to train on with any level of security from the ever present threat of a car or truck? Absolutely not. Unfortunately we are dealing with double standards at the highest level.

Cars and trucks kill and maim cyclists in the thousands and its our fault for having the gall to venture into roads we supposedly haven't paid for. Cyclists scare a few pedestrians and on a very rare occasion in comparison to the freak show figures of the motorised brigade actually kill anyone and the whole town comes out to voice their 'absolute disgust' whilst demanding these lycra louts are heavily dealt with.

Until that disparity is addressed and we can pull the splinter out of the eye of government and show them the continental sized forest beyond this imbalance will persist, fueled no doubt by the likes of the Daily Mail and its obese pals.

If government for just one year allocated even a tiny percentage of the highways budget into laying dedicated cycle roads across the country we could perhaps see an end to shared path safety issues. Until then it will be business as usual.

A cyclist will injure a pedestrian and be lambasted for it on the front page of the local rag whilst yet another victim of a car 'accident' will go unnoticed back on page 16 amongst a Harvester Restaurant voucher and a dull story about the benefits of getting your cat injected with an ID chip at the local veterinary surgery.

Nothing will change, this sort of thing will drag on for years.

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parksey | 10 years ago
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Precisely why I don't use Strava, I could not give a rat's ass about leaderboards when I'm out riding.

Shared paths are fundamentally not for use for time-trialling, they're intended for ordinary cyclists just trying to get to work or school, or for families out riding for leisure (let alone the multitude of reasons why pedestrians are there). None of these people are there to be intimidated by others blasting past at 25mph, regardless of the time of day.

If you want to go chasing records, keep it to the road, or to properly-organised events.

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sodit replied to parksey | 10 years ago
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parksey wrote:

Precisely why I don't use Strava, I could not give a rat's ass about leaderboards when I'm out riding.

Shared paths are fundamentally not for use for time-trialling, they're intended for ordinary cyclists just trying to get to work or school, or for families out riding for leisure (let alone the multitude of reasons why pedestrians are there). None of these people are there to be intimidated by others blasting past at 25mph, regardless of the time of day.

If you want to go chasing records, keep it to the road, or to properly-organised events.

+ 1

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Bhachgen | 10 years ago
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No doubt there is the occasional 'speeding poser' on the Guild Wheel. They get everywhere after all. But there is not a single mention of any problem caused by inconsiderate cycling anywhere in the LEP article. Not one parent, pensioner, dogwalker, PCSO, teacher has been quoted with a tale of their terrifying near miss with a Lycra lout.

It's like someone said to Peter Ward "did you know this fella rode the wheel in 1hr 8mins? Look, it's right here on Strava". He replies "What's Strava?" and suddenly we have this crap in the LEP.

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Flying Scot | 10 years ago
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Shared path no -no's

1) horses, never.
2) long leads or no leads on dogs
3) cycling above 10mph or so within 50 yards of other users

I avoid them unless I am with kids.

Use your 52 on the road guys, let the youngsters learn to wobble on the paths.

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lookmanohands | 10 years ago
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1 hour and 8 minutes......I reckon I could get close to that! (Goes off to check the segment out)  19  24

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Neil753 | 10 years ago
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It's shocking, but not surprising, that none of the segments have been flagged. But I am surprised that pedestrians haven't realised that knobbling Strava in this way could actually be very easy. There's an awful lot of social media savvy pensioners around these days, you know, so word would soon get round  3

But here's an idea. What if flags had a timing window such that, for instance, the first Sunday in each month saw the flag lifted for the day? It should be fairly easy to set up Strava in this way, I imagine. It's only because no-one's thought of it that it hasn't happened. If you're reading this, you Strava developer guys, how about it?

The reason why I think this might work is because, when I was a student, living in a shared house, there was always conflict with the neighbours, as you might expect. But a deal was struck - every fourth Saturday was a serious party night, where things were sometimes so crazy it was difficult at times to know who was doing what, and to whom. But on other weekends we had to go elsewhere to get our kicks, leaving the neighbours to sleep peacefully in their feather beds.

In other words, local dog walkers and others intent on a gentle stroll might reasonably be expected to concede to giving priority to cyclists on that day, in exchange for a Strava free existence for the rest of the month.

In fact, the more one thinks about it, the more the idea of "flag lift" days, attracting hundreds of riders all turning up to ride the same route simultaneously, appeals. Those hard pressed locals would probably come out to cheer you fast boys round, sell you soup and stuff, and put the Wheel on the map, as it were.

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Initialised | 10 years ago
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Bicycles aren't allowed on motorways so why are pedestrians allowed on cycleways?

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oozaveared replied to Initialised | 10 years ago
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Initialised wrote:

Bicycles aren't allowed on motorways so why are pedestrians allowed on cycleways?

It's a shared use path. And your analogy is a losing wicket. It's far more likely that in a battle as to who gets exclusive use of a path, pedestrians will win. Footpaths are the historic norm in the UK for obvious reasons. Most of the time, shared use means that cyclists have been given use of a footpath previously off limits to them. The rest of the time the shared use ie access by pedestrians to a new route for cyclists is what helps get the support the scheme needs.

I can't help it because I am 52 and started cycling in a club in 1971. Generally if you are covering distance and want to do that swiftly you should be on the road. If you are tootling to work or school or the shops then cycle paths are just the thing but they aren't roads.

Just like if I headed off to Manchester in my car the best place to travel quickly is the A roads and motorway. If I decided to try to maintain 70mph on the backroads and lanes then it would be dangerous.

Plus what kind of self respecting "racing age" cyclist thinks a strava time on a shared use path is worth having. You want to ride fast against the clock then man up and do a proper time trial with the grown ups.

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mikem22 replied to oozaveared | 10 years ago
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oozaveared wrote:

Generally if you are covering distance and want to do that swiftly you should be on the road. If you are tootling to work or school or the shops then cycle paths are just the thing but they aren't roads.

Just like if I headed off to Manchester in my car the best place to travel quickly is the A roads and motorway. If I decided to try to maintain 70mph on the backroads and lanes then it would be dangerous.

Plus what kind of self respecting "racing age" cyclist thinks a strava time on a shared use path is worth having. You want to ride fast against the clock then man up and do a proper time trial with the grown ups.

Spot on. I use Strava to record my rides, plan new ones, record how long, far, high I have ridden and check out where others have been cycling to see if I am missing out on nice routes. I do think it is a good tool, it's just badly misused by some.

A few years back I would be lucky to pass through 4 or 5 Segments on a 40 mile route, now I hit at least 20 or 30 and some of them are absolutely crazy, through lights, over roundabouts, on shared paths, big downhills, through junctions or even ending a few yards before a junction.

The way I see it, advances in the mapping software should allow Strava to detect if a segment someone is trying to add encounters any of the above list, if they do then the request to add the new segment will fail (and existing ones removed).

Personally I would also limit road segments to uphill only.

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twinklydave | 10 years ago
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Quote:

Ottawa paths have a posted 25-kph speed limit and occasionally the police set up speed traps.

...and if I was riding without a bike computer, how would I know if I was speeding?!

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massspike | 10 years ago
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Cyclists who try to set PB's on shared-use paths are a pet peeve of mine -- I have had to stop and help after 1 head-on collision and another cyclist v. pedestrian incident. The worst are the ones on TT bikes riding on a busy path in the aero position.

Ottawa paths have a posted 25-kph speed limit and occasionally the police set up speed traps.

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