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news
Cyclist in traffic (copyright Simon MacMichael)End “us versus them” culture to improve safety of cyclists, urges Welsh Government minister
A Welsh Government minister has said that an “us versus them” culture on the country’s roads needs to end to improve the safety of cyclists, and that “We do have a problem with the behaviour of some drivers.”
Deputy Climate Change Minister Lee Waters, whose responsibilities include active travel, made his comments after a motorist who killed a cyclist was handed a suspended sentence.
Earlier this month, Lowri Powell was sentenced to six months’ imprisonment, suspended for two years, after she was convicted of causing the death by careless driving of 61-year-old cyclist Paul James in April 2019.
Powell, who claimed that she had been blinded by the low sun, hit Mr Jones – a Plaid Cymru councillor for Ceredigion and former paratrooper – from behind, causing him to come off his bike and fall into the path of another car, reports Wales Online.
The driver of that vehicle also stood trial, but was acquitted of the same offence for which Powell was convicted.
Mr James’ son, Cameron, told the ITV Wales current affairs programme Y Byd ar Bedwar this week that tougher penalties are needed for drivers who kill cyclists.
“It’s not harsh enough,” he said. “I don’t understand how somebody can take somebody else’s life and just get a suspended sentence. It doesn’t make any sense to me.
“I’ll never forget that day,” he continued. “I remember the moment my mother called me and I didn’t believe it. It’s something you never expect to hear.
“My dad was a funny, lovely person who wanted to help everybody and do a lot for the community. I think about him every day,” he added.
“I never got the chance to say goodbye to my Dad and that’s so difficult for me.”
Waters, the Labour Member of the Senedd for Llanelli, said: “Even though we’ve had a massive increase in the number of people cycling over the last year due to lockdown we haven’t seen as you might expect a similar proportionate rise in the number of casualties which is very encouraging,” he said.
“We do have a problem with the behaviour of some drivers and this is partly cultural. Because so few people in this country cycle, drivers don’t have the experience of what it feels like on a bike.
“We’ve created, in this country, a culture of us and them where the driver somehow feels emboldened in this dangerous box of steel to do what they like and that does require confronting their behaviour and prosecuting dangerous driving,” he added.
The minister is a former director of Sustrans Cymru, where he led the successful campaign for the Active Travel Act, which became law in 2013, which was hailed as a “world-first” and secured cross-party support, with Wales held up as an example the other countries in the UK could follow.
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
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24 comments
Got to admit I do find the irony funny. I stopped coming to this site a few years ago when it felt like every post had at least one anti car/driver rant with petrol head or motoron regularly being trotted out. Whilst cyclists could no wrong unless they were head to toe in day glo and reflectives and had lights that bright aircraft were complaining about being blinded.
Yes, there are idiots in both camps and they will appear when you least expect.
I'm thinking that 'Us v Them' has become more of a thing since the advent of cycle cameras which record instances of poor / aggressive driving and social media on which to platform the evidence. The truly awful, low ability, behaviourally challenged drivers, like most bullies, resent being called out for their actions and retalliate with ever more bluster as they perceive justly deserved critiscism as persecution.
"How dare you touch my car with your eyeball! And how very dare you comment on my driving!"
Like many of us on here, I also drive. Last Sunday I was driving my VW Passat, taking my Labrador for a long forest walk. The sun was really bright and low on the horizon (8am) and the road was shiny with rain from earlier. I slowed quite a bit and paid more attention to the road. It was easy. All these "the sun was in my eyes" drivers should get 3 year bans and then have to retake their test in dusk or dawn sunny conditions just to prove they are able to see and drive safely.
Aren't you supposed to walk with them?
I don't have a problem with most motorists. The vast majority are civilised, responsible and courteous. There is a small minority of drivers who are careless and aggressive in their driving. But in the course of a commute or leisurely ride on the roads, I will interact with hundreds of drivers, and that small minority becomes significant. On some days I've just given up after a hour or two, because I've had my fill of asshattery for that particular day.
I do have a problem with the entire justice and planning system - from the police, to the CPS, to the courts, local councils, parliament/Lords and the executive arms of government to give this small minority of careless and aggressive drivers not so much a free reign to continue with what they're doing, as going collectively wild and crazy with the jazz hands to go right ahead and do it some more.
When motorists start getting lifetime bans and prison sentences equivalent to manslaughter for causing death by careless driving and murder for causing death by dangerous driving, offenders not allowed to get away with "sun was in my eyes", "I can't remember", and "I have to wake up every day feeling guilty"; when presumed liability is brought in like just about every other nation in Europe; when councils stop putting in dangerous and shoddy bike infrastructure to tick a box to the extent that I'll take a longer route or a dual carriageway to avoid it; when repeat offenders are not allowed to stay on the road with 12 points on their license; when any of this happens, I'll start to think that Mr Waters isn't just part of the problem and spinning aorund and shedding crocodile tears like a garden sprinkler whilst everyone around him is still giving the crazy jazz hands to a tacitly authorised slaughter.
To quote Bill Hicks, a war is when two armies are fighting. There is no war on motorists, there is a war by that small minority of motorists, and the above only begins to mitigate the damage.
Apologies for the full stopless rant; my editing was focussed on removing the forty nine instances of profane language. I counted. Anyway we've only got fifty odd years of oil left and the planet will be an evironmental basket case by then, and the whole problem will be reduced to the few survivors on single speed bamboo bikes being held up by horses and carts.
I will stop having an "us and them" attitude when entitled motorists start treating me (when I am on my bike) like another road user and not a target for their print up anger. I don't think I have a single ride where I am kept safe because I can ride my bike better than the average motorists can drive their vehicle. Drivers on phones, texting, drinking hot drinks out of baby cups on the move, jumping red lights... need I go on? When the average motorists drives properly I will relax and stop seeing the Welsh roads with an "us and them" perspective
Yep. The bullies need to stop treating other road users as an out-group they can intimidate with violence.
Last week I had to report a van driver to the police for aggression and repeatedly threatening to run me off the road merely because I was about a foot further out from the hedge than he thought was appropriate. His tirade seemed to be about the fact that too many cyclists used that road, though I ride to work & back that way most days and sometimes at weekends yet see very few others cycling. It is certainly wide enough for 2 cars to pass in most places.
I'm assuming this is on video?- if not, no chance- even if it is, my experience is that they try to dodge taking action
No video but a written reported submitted via West Mercia Police web portal. Telephone call received 2 or 3 days later discussing what they could do - they suggested that, without video or witnesses* and no actual assault, they would contact the registered keeper. They will be in touch with me again afterwards.
* the driver who had stopped behind us did not attempt to get out of his/her vehicle or speak to me afterwards.
I hope they also sting him for his MOT, which had expired 2 weeks previously.
There is no "us and them". I have been driving for nearly 40 years, including a delivery job (a long time ago). I don't have a problem observing the rules of the road, letting people cross / pull out in front of me or waiting behind another road user until I can overtake them safely. Getting impatient or not realising how much room a cyclist needs is one thing but the aggression and threatening violence is something else entirely and I find it intolerable.
they suggested that, without video or witnesses* and no actual assault, they would contact the registered keeper. They will be in touch with me again afterwards
My guess is they won't be in touch with you afterwards, and if you pursue it they will say how terribly busy they are, they have been on days off/ leave and they can't do anything because the driver denies everything and anyway is a cyclist himself. When they do have the immaculate evidence, in Lancashire anyway, the usual ploy is to fail to respond if you let them.
To be fair, that's what the Minister is saying. "We do have a problem with the behaviour of some drivers and this is partly cultural."
He's not saying 'the responsibility is 50-50, let's all be nicer to each other.'
End “us versus them” culture to improve safety of cyclists, urges Welsh Government minister.
"Not a chance", says Welsh boy.
There is a definite us versus them sentiment on the roads at the current time especially given the fact that the roads are becoming increasingly busy after a while of relative quiet during covid.
In my experience however the sentiment originates from motorists in the vast majority of cases. There are a growing number of motorists who see anything other than a cyclist riding on a cycle path or in the gutter of a road as a cyclist who is riding with the sole intent of holding them up, whereas in reality most of the time the cyclist is trying to do what is safest for them.
And those drivers will take their frustrations out on any cyclist regardless of how courteously they ride. I'd suggest that the vast majority of readers here will have had at least once instance of a driver doing something stupid like a close pass or worse for no reason other than the fact that another cyclist somewhere has done something to p!ss them off.
I've never came across any cyclists who have ever randomly remonstrated with a car just because somewhere, sometime a different car has pulled a stupid maneuver against them, yet car drivers remonstrating with a quite possibily innocent cyclist is deemed acceptable
You mean motorist? I've tried remonstrating with a car but it just ignored me, probably something to do with it having no eyes or ears - or brain (a trait that is not unheard of in motorists).
Fair point..... I did mean motorist.
End “us versus them” culture to improve safety of cyclists, urges Welsh Government minister.
"Not in a million years", says 2727.
Amen. Let the angry and entitled among the drivers come and join the rest of us! We understand the anger (some of it) - they were sold an expensive dream but it turned out not to take them where they wanted fast enough! This activity carried more onerous responsibility than they'd understood, it wasn't always full of freedom or as fun as they hoped. There were other motorists in the way. When they had kids they realised they weren't comfortable with them playing by themselves because of the roads. They didn't feel they could let them walk to school. Their parents complained that they were stuck in their houses. They realised they weren't getting enough exercise but could never find time to drive to the gym.
Alternatively - it's not us versus them. It's just some people who want other people who've equipped themselves with great power to bear their greater responsibility!
Absolutely, I've never seen a cyclist asking a driver in a Ferrari or Porsche why they think they're at Le Mans or similar, but ride on a road bike in sporting kit in London and you'll regularly be asked, out of the blue, "think you're in the Tour de bleedin' France do ya?" Similarly, I don't know any cyclists who feel the need to address motorists who are behaving themselves with complaints about other motorists, but wearing my Proviz and with a quadruple-light setup in the winter I'll often get passive-aggressive backhanded compliments like "At least I can see you mate, so many of you fuckers are fucking invisible..."
"think you're in the Tour de bleedin' France do ya?"
To which I'd love to reply, "We're in England [etc]; are you stupid?"
If you come across anything on social media which remotely supports or encourages cycling in any way shape or form it always descends the same way..... some random starting off with "bloody cyclists" and then the poster pulling out the anti-cycling bingo card and spouting off two or three of their favourites..... normally about how cyclists shouldn't be on their roads.... but somehow they try and blame cyclists for fostering the us vs them stance because they dare to contradict them
It's called gaslighting.
garysbikechannel the cyclist/biker who used to post here said he would shout at them to get on the bus so they could use the bus lane or use the motorway.
Local news posters tend to show out of touch they are with the phrase 'bradley wiggins wanabees'. No doubt half of them wear a football shirt and the irony is lost.
Yes, including the ridiculous position of berating the cyclist who does stop at red lights for the actions of others. Completely oblivious to the absurdity of complaining about rule breaker to some following the rules.