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TECH NEWS
Shimano 9170 Specialized 3 - 1.jpgManufacturers hit back in pro peloton disc brake row
The World Federation of the Sporting Goods Industry (WFSGI), the body that represents many of the biggest manufacturers in the bicycle industry, has issued a statement on the UCI’s disc brake trial in road racing stating that the damage to Owain Doull's shoe in the Abu Dhabi Tour last week was unlikely to have been caused by a disc brake.
We reported earlier today that the pro riders’ union, Cyclistes Professionnels Associés (CPA), is threatening legal action against the UCI over its disc brake safety concerns, and the fierce debate over the introduction of this technology shows no signs of abating up any time soon.
“The investigation into the accident of Owain Doull is still ongoing and the available material is being studied carefully,” said the WFSGI in its statement.
“After the first material and image investigations, we can say that a disc brake accident can, most likely, be excluded.”
Owain Doull himself believes that the damage was caused by a disc brake.
The WFSGI also referred back to an accident in last year’s Paris-Roubaix when Francisco Ventoso sustained a leg injury. Ventoso claimed that the damage was caused by a disc brake although a forensic report on the injury and a report on the reconstruction of the accident commissioned by the WFSGI conclude otherwise.
“The UCI has installed a working group consisting out of members from the WFSGI, the rider representative CPA, the team’s organisation (Association International des Groupes Cyclistes Professionels, AIGCP) and the UCI itself,” the WFSGI explains in its statement.
“This working group closely monitors the trial of disc brakes in road racing, reports incidents and studies potential improvements for the usage of disc brakes in road racing. The experts from the different organisations in this working group are empowered for making proposals to the UCI equipment commission.
“Today the industry provides both brake systems and leaves the decision as to which system to use (rim or disc) to each team and/or rider.”
Many people have spoken of safety concerns relating to the differing performance of rim brakes and disc brakes when used alongside one another in the pro peloton.
“It shall be known that some material/combinations currently used in pro racing already show a clear difference in brake performance," said the WFSGI.
"Some combinations may not even live up to the legal requirements set by international standards (CEN/ISO) for commercial bicycles.
“That’s why the UCI working group has identified this key point and is looking into ways to improve the level of safety for pro riders by enforcing minimal standards of brake performance. That can be taken as a starting point to eliminate concerns of different braking performance regardless the brake system used.”
Referring to the possibility of riders being injured by disc rotors, the WFSGI said, “Evidence on cuts under racing conditions is not available since there has been no reported accident with disc brakes so far.
“Nevertheless, the industry agreed with UCI, CPA and AIGCP on rounded disc brake rotors in order to react on the perceived risk by riders, as well as to support a faster exchange of the wheels from neutral support and team’s service. It has to be mentioned that the ISO standard 4210-2; 4.2 does already require exposed edges on the entire bicycle to not be sharp.”
The WFSGI argues that the UCI’s disc brake trial should continue.
“A fair chance of a testing period should be acceptable given all above facts,” said the WFSGI.
“The WFSGI will continue to work closely with the UCI, CPA and AIGCP in order to make a smooth introduction of disc brakes into professional road racing.”
Mat has been in cycling media since 1996, on titles including BikeRadar, Total Bike, Total Mountain Bike, What Mountain Bike and Mountain Biking UK, and he has been editor of 220 Triathlon and Cycling Plus. Mat has been road.cc technical editor for over a decade, testing bikes, fettling the latest kit, and trying out the most up-to-the-minute clothing. He has won his category in Ironman UK 70.3 and finished on the podium in both marathons he has run. Mat is a Cambridge graduate who did a post-grad in magazine journalism, and he is a winner of the Cycling Media Award for Specialist Online Writer. Now over 50, he's riding road and gravel bikes most days for fun and fitness rather than training for competitions.
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20 comments
This debate has quickly descended in to an epic mong off.
I have a set of carbon ceramic rotors made by Kettle Cycles. They work quite badly. I tried both organic and metal pads and neither were sufficient for my riding which included North Vancouver steep trails. Some places I was only able to slow the bike and not actually stop. Scary. With the blunted rotors being used I don't see any significant hazard. With various carbon rims and different rim brake pads I do see more risk. Many carbon rims have grabby braking and none when wet.
I think on balance rounded disc rotors are safer than crappy carbon rims.
The question that seems to be ducked are that in road races there are large bunches of riders travelling at 50 -60kph very close together and with a tendency to fall off. This is significantly different to off road uses where speeds are lower, and fewer riders are so close together for so long.
It is not the spinning disc I would be bothered about it would be my knee impacting a 3 - 4mm blunt blade.
See the effect of a 20 mph impact between potato (knee) and disc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It-WDJhZsAI
I've seen the bikes in MotoGP ("motor" -bikes) use carbon-ceramic discs on certain tracks when they need better braking.
Perhaps the manufacturers can develop thicker carbon-ceramic brake discs for road bikes; they're already adept at carbon stuff. Would resolve this slice-and-dice issue.
Personally, I still put my shoe on the rear wheel against the seat stays to slow down. I do ride a BMX with no brakes at all though
Nice idea, but the reason they use carbon-ceramic is more power at higher temperatures, thus the only thing that can slow a moto Gp (and F1 car) quickly enough. They tend to run at over 1000degC, and are useless at low temperatures, which is why Moto GP switch back to steel discs in the rain, they cant get enough heat into them to make them work.
Carbon is also really horrible nasty stuff, wouldn't want any getting in a cut.
It is clear to me that Owain Doull's injury was not caused by him running into a disc brake.
It was in fact self inflicted when Owain Doull wilfully and negligently assaulted an innocent disc brake with his his foot!
The WFSGI would like it to be known that this discriminatory attitude by riders towards disc brakes cannot continue and they would like a full UCI enquiry into 'discism' in the peleton.
I can't work out whether Doull actually elieves it, or if he's been put up to it. I feel quite sorry for himif they've decided to get the new boy to try and convince us of the dangers of discs.
If he really believes it then I would expect to hear an apology from him as soon a he has seen the video replay or the series of stills in the link posted by Ogi.
Secondly, is Redsport being ironic using the words "meaningless" and "sportive riders" in the same sentence but not linking them? Sportive riders are the marketing mans ultimate dream and is the market the disc brake manufacturers are targetting. Use the pro riders as a marketing tool so the wanna be racers buy into the technology too. All the negative arguments i hear for using disc brakes in the pro peleton apply equally to the sportive rider too.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9085549b89f3dcebcfc14f08f2cec54d74d...
Check this out! I find this very interesting as it clearly indicates Doull was nowhere near Kittel's bike. But then again, we knew that! I find this whole situation quite funny, as I can't find any parallel in other sports (Moto GP or F1), where manufacturers are driving the sport forward, albeit I have no respect for F1 and what it is today. Also, I can't believe how moany and soft some of these "ultimate pro athletes" are. I'd like to find a parallel in my life as well, where I could treat some of my employers in such a way! Absolutely pathetic!
That's pretty damning for Doull's credibility.
I think it's pretty hard to tell how his left foot makes it across in to his rotor it's true, though when he goes down his bike and body do spin towards Kittel in a way that could be possible. It's certainly not something that can be proven from that angle.
Doull was pretty damning for Doull's credibility.
Someone wanna wake me up when people stop all this pointless crap... kthanxbai
maybe some riders just want to mess with other riders heads, especially if their sponsor does not have a good disc brake bike setup.. at the end of the day all this pro blah is becoming meaningless for most sportive riders and what most people want to ride. In which case what is the point?
I've just watched the crash and Kittel was no where near him, I'd say it was more to do with the barrier than a disc.
Go Go Shimano and the rest!
Sue the crap out of them. They will loose. You guys have the money they don't.
Everything about this sports is dangerous so let them proof disc is more dangerous than spokes, chain rings, wet decents, riding mm behind eachother, turblar tyres etc....
Once they have prooven everything is dangerous then ban the road cycling all together, a sport most people don't even care about watching.
...out of curiosity, I took an angle grinder to Owain Doull's foot...
now it looks proper cut!
Oh god, don't mention angle grinders, people will start comparing disc rotors to them and suggesting that as evidance of the damage they can cause, regardless of the fact that grinders rotate a s**t load faster and are tipped with diamonds or similar specifically for cutting.
...out of curiosity, I tried to slice through an old cyling shoe with the disc rotor while cleaning the bike at the weekend....honestly, it barely scrathed the surface, even when applying pressure to the very edge of the rotor.......now if only I had an old pork chop lying around.....
Manufacturers should change their advertising strategy. What pro needs is getting far and far away from amature.
Amature riders don't need drugs, lies of getting hurt by disc, brake track in carbon rim nor tubular.