Quickly deleted road tax poll doesn’t go to plan (+ cycle lane petition); Bernal: I had 95% chance of becoming paraplegic; Wiggoception; Bet your brake pads aren’t as worn as Dan Martin’s; G’s lovely day in ‘Tenby’ + more on the live blog

61 thoughts on “Quickly deleted road tax poll doesn’t go to plan (+ cycle lane petition); Bernal: I had 95% chance of becoming paraplegic; Wiggoception; Bet your brake pads aren’t as worn as Dan Martin’s; G’s lovely day in ‘Tenby’ + more on the live blog”

1. I’d love to know what Susan

   I’d love to know what Susan means by “More of a priority” 

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   • At a guess she means ‘I don’t
     At a guess she means ‘I don’t like cyclists, I perceive them as less than human and if they die it’s all their fault, I have no logical reasons for this other than rising rage in my lizard brain when I perceive them to be in my way. I’m gonna use lazy internet shorthand to find my tribe to validate me’

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     • The great irony of Susan’s

       The great irony of Susan’s poll, which is clearly designed to give her affirmation and likes in a pile-on from the anti-cycling community, is that when I saw it yesterday and glanced at her timeline on Twitter it is full of “everybody should be kind to each other” and “Isn’t it a shame that people are so nasty on the Internet” quotes.

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       • I loved the delicious ‘missed

         I loved the delicious ‘missed-the-point’ detail in parenthesis, just to clarify how precisely wrong she is and how unworkable these nonsense ideas are.

         This would be public roads only – not country parks.
         (as though she’s mid-draft as we speak)

         Of course… except a path or road in a country park that’s open to the public is a public road, for the purposes of Road Traffic/Highways Acts.

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   • I wouldn’t worry, coz it’s

     I wouldn’t worry, coz it’s more deleted now.

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   • bennettkaru wrote:

     I’d love to know what Susan means by “More of a priority” 

     — bennettkaru

     She had, immediately prior to this, commented along the lines of “Very good article!” on a MSN piece entitled “‘Make them pay road levy and insurance!’ Fury at ‘ridiculous’ new rules for cyclists in UK”.

     Presumably, she thought she was onto a winner. 

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   • I wonder how she feels about

     I wonder how she feels about EVs, given that they also do not pay VED (and yet add to congestion and wear’n’tear on road surfaces way more than bicycles…).

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     • brooksby wrote:

       I wonder how she feels about EVs, given that they also do not pay VED (and yet add to congestion and wear’n’tear on road surfaces way more than bicycles…).

       — brooksby

       Her profile mentions that she’s a long-boat owner/enthusiast so if she lives in a long-boat, she might well not pay council tax and thus contribute to the roads that way (not that who does or does not contribute is in any way relevant).

       Personally, I would love paying a bicycle road tax if car owners then had to pay upwards of £10,000 a year to drive around (i.e. taxation proportionate to road damge – 4th power of axle weight).

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       • hawkinspeter wrote:

         Her profile mentions that she’s a long-boat owner/enthusiast

         — hawkinspeter

         Yikes – can we expect pillaging raids on popular local cycle routes?

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       • hawkinspeter wrote:

         Her profile mentions that she’s a long-boat owner/enthusiast

         — hawkinspeter

         Haha… narrowboat… can’t picture Rosie & Jim marauding the coast of the British Isles.

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       • IF we paid a cycle tax (don’t

         IF we paid a cycle tax (don’t want trikes & unicycles to miss out), would we then be able to cause lots of death & carnage, but just claim the sun was in our eyes, or we just happened to be looking the other way & whatever it was came out of nowhere & wasn’t in hiviz? (!)

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         • No, that would never happen

           No, that would never happen because if we had a right to cycle (because we have a licence and passed a test and pay tax and are insured and have number plates) every cyclist would know that those were just stories blown wildly out of proportion by angry entitled motorists. Or if that does happen it’s only a few criminals doing that – and what has that got to do with me?  That doesn’t reflect on my lawful, careful cycling. Oh, well, yes – very rarely people make a mistake. Accidents happen.  You can’t be expected to watch out for every squirrel.  Sad, but that child just ran straight out in front of them and there was nothing the poor cyclist could do.

         • I love my bike wrote:

           IF we paid a cycle tax (don’t want trikes & unicycles to miss out),….

           — I love my bike

           Quite right. We don’t want any TERBs* around here thank you very much….

           *Trike Exclusionary Radical Bicyclists

         • Oi!

           Oi!

           2 wheels bad 3 wheels good.

       • “There have been a number of

         “There have been a number of accusations recently that boaters do not pay Council Tax and so should not benefit from local services. This is incorrect. British Waterways pays the Government a composite levy in respect of Council Tax and Business Rates. This is collected centrally and the income is used to offset general central Government payments to local authorities through the Rate Support Grant. Therefore, anyone who pays a boat licence fee to BW contributes to this composite levy in respect of Council Tax.”

         Not as direct as cyclists paying council tax towards the local roads maintained by their relevant highways dept.

          

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         • hirsute wrote:

           “There have been a number of accusations recently that boaters do not pay Council Tax and so should not benefit from local services. This is incorrect. British Waterways pays the Government a composite levy in respect of Council Tax and Business Rates. This is collected centrally and the income is used to offset general central Government payments to local authorities through the Rate Support Grant. Therefore, anyone who pays a boat licence fee to BW contributes to this composite levy in respect of Council Tax.”

           Not as direct as cyclists paying council tax towards the local roads maintained by their relevant highways dept.

           — hirsute

           Thanks – good to know. I’ve got nothing against boaters (apart from those that have old polluting diesel generators) and it wouldn’t bother me if they didn’t contribute to roads. The mouthy ones could do with shutting up on Twitter about cyclists, though.

         • hirsute wrote:

           “There have been a number of accusations recently that boaters do not pay Council Tax and so should not benefit from local services. This is incorrect. British Waterways pays the Government a composite levy in respect of Council Tax and Business Rates. This is collected centrally and the income is used to offset general central Government payments to local authorities through the Rate Support Grant. Therefore, anyone who pays a boat licence fee to BW contributes to this composite levy in respect of Council Tax.”

           Not as direct as cyclists paying council tax towards the local roads maintained by their relevant highways dept.

           — hirsute

           apparently about £1200 p.a. for a narrow boat, so comparable to council tax. Of course as this is paid to central government it’s questionable how much reaches the correct local authority.

         • That figure seems to come

           That figure seems to come from here https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/refresh/media/thumbnail/43152-long-term-boat-licence-fee-table-for-2021-2022.pdf

           in which case, some of the fee will be paying for the upkeep of the canals and rivers and not paying for local services. Council Tax is cheap round your way !

       • hawkinspeter wrote:

         I wonder how she feels about EVs, given that they also do not pay VED (and yet add to congestion and wear’n’tear on road surfaces way more than bicycles…).

         — hawkinspeter

         Her profile mentions that she’s a long-boat owner/enthusiast so if she lives in a long-boat, she might well not pay council tax and thus contribute to the roads that way (not that who does or does not contribute is in any way relevant).

         Personally, I would love paying a bicycle road tax if car owners then had to pay upwards of £10,000 a year to drive around (i.e. taxation proportionate to road damge – 4th power of axle weight).

         — brooksby

         I made a similar point to someone on another message board last week, asking what he thought would be the fairest way of taxing my 13kg bike and my neighbours 2,000kg SUV.

         His reply, ‘the contact patch of your tyre assuming 1″ x 2″ = 2″ and a total weight of 110kgwhen ridden is 55kg per square inch of pressure on the road.

         The neighbour’s car at 2000kg but with tyres contact are 9″  x 4 = 36″ is he equivalent of 55kg per square inch on the road.   You are both doing the same amount of damage to the road”.

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         • Kapelmuur wrote:

           ……

           I made a similar point to someone on another message board last week, asking what he thought would be the fairest way of taxing my 13kg bike and my neighbours 2,000kg SUV.

           His reply, ‘the contact patch of your tyre assuming 1″ x 2″ = 2″ and a total weight of 110kgwhen ridden is 55kg per square inch of pressure on the road.

           The neighbour’s car at 2000kg but with tyres contact are 9″  x 4 = 36″ is he equivalent of 55kg per square inch on the road.   You are both doing the same amount of damage to the road”.

           — Kapelmuur

           Next he’ll tell you that people wearing high heels do as much damage the road as an elephant……

         • Captain Badger wrote:

           Next he’ll tell you that people wearing high heels do as much damage the road as an elephant……

           — Captain Badger

           To be fair, I haven’t seen much elephant damage on the roads, so he could be right

         • The arithmetic may be correct

           The arithmetic may be correct, but it doesn’t seem to describe the physics hence the generally accepted 4th power guideline.

         • hirsute wrote:

           The arithmetic may be correct, but it doesn’t seem to describe the physics hence the generally accepted 4th power guideline.

           — hirsute

           Quite. The pressure on the road is equivalent, but we’re not talking about that – we’re talking about load (aka axle weight), which is of course proportional to the absolute mass of the vehicle.

            

         • Even if you accepted the

           Even if you accepted the maths, and the idea that the pressure is the sole relevant factor, it leaves out that you’re not applying that pressure statically to a single patch – you’re applying it to the track of the wheels. Assuming, for simplicity’s sake, that both front and back wheels follow the same track, that’s one strip of road 1″ wide for the bike, and two strips of road 9″ wide for the car – therefore the car is 18 times as bad.

           

         • hirsute wrote:

           The arithmetic may be correct, but it doesn’t seem to describe the physics hence the generally accepted 4th power guideline.

           — hirsute

           Indeed – and it does seem to be the “heavy vehicles” although cars are blurring that line by getting heavier.

           Well there’s a folk method (I’m sure the only kind many complainants would follow) for them to check.  Go and compare the road surfaces with the cycle path surfaces.  We’re looking for cracking, crazing, rutting and waves going across the road.  Bus stops round me are great for this – it looks like someone dropped the bus from above into really wet asphalt.  That’s even for roads resurfaced in the last couple of years.

           For fairness you’ll want to correct for the numbers of bicycles / motor vehicles – but the argument will have either ceased at this point or moved on to “what about…”.

           Oh – wait – lots of the cycle paths have crap surfaces too.  Did I lose the argument?  Or could this be that they were shoddily built (repurposed footway or former road) or in some cases that motor vehicles still drive on / over them?

         • chrisonatrike wrote:

           Bus stops round me are great for this – it looks like someone dropped the bus from above into really wet asphalt.  That’s even for roads resurfaced in the last couple of years.

           — chrisonatrike

           This damage is more to do with leaking diesel (mainly fuel lines and joints) which acts as a solvent on the tarmac. McGills vehicles over here in Renfrewshire have really stuffed the road at a lot of bus stops. 

         • Good point!  But but what

           Good point!  But but what about all those snot rockets?

         • Surely they would serve as

           Surely they would serve as filling material if sent the right direction ?

         • IANA civil engineer, but

           IANA civil engineer, but (agreeing with you) wouldn’t the pressure of his motor vehicle tyre be repeated multiple times for each press of a cycle tyre on a given patch of road, so it’ll take cycles a lot longer to damage the road to an equal degree? Plus isn’t he neglecting additional forces (pressure = force/area not weight/area) from e.g. bouncing up and down and engine/braking acceleration/deceleration, that are going to be much greater for larger masses?

         • I wish I had done A level

           I wish I had done A level physics but clearly the rotational forces involved are more important that static. More than happy to defer to an engineer though !

         • Kapelmuur wrote:

            You are both doing the same amount of damage to the road”.

           — Kapelmuur

           Follow up question – can we do an experiment? First I will ride my bicycle over a part of your body, and we will look for damage. Then I will repeat with your car and compare the results.

           The static pressure only really matters when stationary. It is the acceleration and braking of vehicles that damage the road surface most (roads are always more worn on the approach to roundabouts, traffic lights etc. because of this).

         • SimoninSpalding wrote:

           Follow up question – can we do an experiment? First I will ride my bicycle over a part of your body, and we will look for damage. Then I will repeat with your car and compare the results.

           — SimoninSpalding

           As long as I can wear a helmet to prevent all damage.

     • I know people who drive EVs
       I know people who drive EVs who still bang on about there should be road tax for cyclists, some people just are anti cyclist.

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       • Awavey wrote:

         I know people who drive EVs who still bang on about there should be road tax for cyclists, some people just are anti cyclist.

         — Awavey

          

         By “some” people you mean all non cyclists?

          

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         • No, there are plenty of
           No, there are plenty of cyclists too who often crop up on those road tax debates who seem to hate other cyclists on the road as much as the non cyclists.

           it’s just as common if I ride near to MTB centres to be close passed by someone with a bike strapped to their car as it is people just out for a drive in the country.

       • Awavey wrote:

         I know people who drive EVs who still bang on about there should be road tax for cyclists, some people just are anti cyclist.

         — Awavey

         No surprise, wasn’t someone busted for moaning about cyclists and road tax exposed for not having paid his VED on his own car.

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2. How about this for nmotd ?

   How about this for nmotd ?

   https://twitter.com/righttobikeit/status/1488168069134438407

   He did well to stay upright.

    

    

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   • That was very nasty.  And

     That was very nasty.  And could have been much worse… 

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3. You missed a few ‘sic’s in

   You missed a few ‘sic’s in that cycle lane item.

   And possibly a ‘sick’ or two as well.

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4. Interesting tip in that Auto

   Interesting tip in that Auto Express article: “Carry a small thermostat in your car and aim for an interior temp of around 180C. Any hotter and drivers can get lethargic (unsafe). Much lower and they may be irritable (ditto).”

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   • andy_d_t wrote:

     Much lower and they may be irritable.”

     — andy_d_t

     Now we know. All those motorists driving round in too-cold cars.

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5. It would be great if we could

   It would be great if we could all take Mike Rutherford’s advice and actually buy a hard copy of the Highway Code, except it isn’t available until April!

   I guess that makes sense, judging by the distinct lack of official public awareness campaign from either the DfT or the DVSA over the updated HC. It seems as if they kinda forgot that it was happening, and thus left it to all the tabloids and random social media outlets to fill the educational void with misinformation and vitriol.

   Maybe just maybe a proper coordinated PR campaign could’ve announced the changes, and perhaps educated many of those now even angrier road users at the same time.

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   • Dicklexic wrote:

     It would be great if we could all take Mike Rutherford’s advice and actually buy a hard copy of the Highway Code, except it isn’t available until April!

     I guess that makes sense, judging by the distinct lack of official public awareness campaign from either the DfT or the DVSA over the updated HC. It seems as if they kinda forgot that it was happening, and thus left it to all the tabloids and random social media outlets to fill the educational void with misinformation and vitriol.

     Maybe just maybe a proper coordinated PR campaign could’ve announced the changes, and perhaps educated many of those now even angrier road users at the same time.

     — Dicklexic

     Totally!

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6. “Cyclists must use the cycle

   “Cyclists must use the cycle lane if one is provided”.

   Alright – but only if motorists must use a motorway if there’s one close to their route.

   I mean, we paid for those motorist-dedicated routes out of our taxes, and cyclists aren’t allowed to use them.

   (I’d like to see Portishead residents going M5-M4-M32 into the centre of Bristol instead of the A369 (where thirty cars passed in front of me before there was a gap for me to cross to the centre refuge near Abbots Leigh, and then another ten to get to the other side, this morning…)).

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   • Also if a journey is less

     Also if a journey is less than say 3 miles and a pavement/cycle path is provided then it should be mandatory that people use active travel rather than drive. Given the new HC it’s much safer and if they don’t why the hell have we spent all that taxpayers money on providing them.

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     • Most Many people would rather

       Most Many people would rather get in their car to drive any distance at all than walk it.

       Asking many people to walk three miles would be like asking them to go to the South Pole on foot…

       My phone says its six miles door to door from my home to my office.  When I’ve said that to people, they act as if I say I’m doing a hundred miler or something…

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       • I suspect that you would

         I suspect in the town where I live that you would struggle to find a house more than a mile from one of the two supermarkets and 3 convenience stores. Yet people will still routinely drive (and complain about parking).

         On one cycle, one of my neighbours followed me out of my road, barged passed me coming to the first roundabout despite the fact we were both turning right. I then followed her down the hill across another roundabout to see her turning into Sainsburys. This journey involved turning right twice and by far the shorter route was walking (at least half the distance).

         The point is that they would argue that time…. or convienience…. or safety…. and yet that doesn’t enter in to their heads when it comes to cyclist choosing roads over cycle paths.

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7. Not pads, but I once replaced

   Not pads, but I once replaced some pads on a bike, but couldn’t get the wheel out because the disc was worn so much on the inside diameter that the thicker outside diameter wouldn’t pass the pads.  When I measured it, the worn section was 1mm compared to the 1.6mm original thickness.  The customer declined to have the disc replaced.

   Not all cyclists are geniuses like what we is here.

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8. Quote:

   “Two cyclists are pictured taking up less than 25% of the road width by someone in a car that takes up 50% of the road width.

   Exactly.

   Most cars are at least as wide as two cyclists side by side and yet there’s (usually) only one occupant.

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9. This will probably make all

   This will probably make all of you cringe. The backer on the pad on my winter bike corroded so much that the pad material popped off.

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   • andystow wrote:

     This will probably make all of you cringe. The backer on the pad on my winter bike corroded so much that the pad material popped off.

     — andystow

     Now there’s someone who likes to get their money’s worth

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     • hawkinspeter wrote:

       Now there’s someone who likes to get their money’s worth

       — hawkinspeter

       I wish I’d got my money’s worth. Look at all that pad material that I didn’t get to use!

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10. Just as France has banned

    Just as France has banned short flights when a reasonable train alternative exists, I propose banning motoring journeys on A roads and B roads where a reasonable motorway route exists. Those motorways were built at great public expense to keep motor traffic off the local roads.

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11. Glad to hear that the Urban

    Glad to hear that the Urban Hill Climb is returning. I’ve ridden up Swain’s Lane a few times and it’s a real brute: well worth seeking out for those into that sort of thing, and in a lovely part of London.

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    • ‘Few times’? Nothing! I did

      ‘Few times’? Nothing! I did it every day for 10 years when I lived in that part of London. 🙂 It never got any easier. 

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      • Lukas wrote:

        It never got any easier. 

        — Lukas

        But you got faster … right?

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    • captain_slog wrote:

      Glad to hear that the Urban Hill Climb is returning. I’ve ridden up Swain’s Lane a few times and it’s a real brute: well worth seeking out for those into that sort of thing, and in a lovely part of London.

      — captain_slog

      Had my best ever excursion there on Sunday: my mate is suffering knee problems so we had coffee in the cafe at the bottom and rode home again!

      It is a stonking climb though and, as you say, lovely environs.

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12. The Bristol Post has picked

    The Bristol Post has picked up that mad Ticktokker woman from the other day.

    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/new-highway-code-rules-bristol-6583536

    and claims that Jeremy Vine also picked up on it…

    The angry reaction included avid cyclist and TV presenter Jeremy Vine, who wrote: “If you know this young woman, it’s very important that you remove her car keys until her irrational anger about the new Highway Code subsides”

    In response to Mr Vine in a video yesterday, Ms Bradd made clear that she was not being serious, that she does not want to “t*** Maisie off her bike when I’m driving” and accused Mr Vine of wanting to “incite hate” towards her because of her outspoken views on Covid-19.

    She added that she was “making a joke” about hitting people on the road, and added that she did not have a driving license at the time of recording having failed her test in 2020 and has had more lessons since. She has another test booked for this Thursday, she said in a comment.

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    • Always good to joke about

      Always good to joke about hitting people whilst swearing copiously.

      LICENCE

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      • It works for Rod Liddle,

        It works for Rod Liddle, Matthew Parris, et al… 

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13. Susan Potter:

    Susan Potter:

    “Should we just burn asylum seekers for heat, now that gas is so expensive? Just asking… >:|”

    Later after deleting and hiding behind protected tweets:

    “Don’t hate on me for tweets you dont agree with. :(“

    These people honestly…

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