[David9694]

I posted an earlier version of this a while back – inspired to do update following THAT discussion about all things ULEZ. 

The “manifesto”, in terms of transport, only mentions stopping HS2, but there’s plenty on the usual right-wing obsessions: Brexit, immigration, veterans and climate change.  I had another look because I worry about the ongoing decline of the two main political parties. 

If the Cons stay wedded to Brexit, then we will go into the next GE with all the widespread impoverishment Brexit has ushered in – not helped by Covid, Putin, etc. People generally vote according to their pockets.  I don’t get Labour’s current position on Europe either, but let’s see how that evolves, and even the Cons may also evolve, or even pivot, but time is already running out for them.

Several roads now lead to the horrors of a further lurch to the right in this country.  Let’s hope Labour get the GE landslide the polls are predicting – but we’re still at least a year out from the real campaigning beginning. 

A cycling angle? With the Reform Party and its ilk, Facebook Steve and Nextdoor Dave attain real political influence. It’s not spelt out in the manifesto, but you can see where this is probably heading and what it is likely to mean for cycling.  You can bet that this lot are very much “on the side of hard working drivers” etc. 

As you all know, Dave’s going to “sort the traffic” and no doubt show them lazy planners how it’s done: Steve thinks the Council are corrupt, the police blinkered and is, if he can fit it in to his busy schedule he’s going to “teach them Lycra’s a thing or two.” It won’t concern him that his Mondeo is 3 months out of MoT or that Mrs Steve sometimes drives the kids in it uninsured. 

As vulnerable road users, vulnerable people, we rely a great deal on the rule of law for protection. The rule of law means that we understand what the laws are, they are in general fair, and how they are applied and to whom is even-handed and consistent. 

The fascist position is broadly the opposite – it’s all off-the-cuff to support today’s particular agenda – that’s why the Iain Duncan-Smith “happy to see ULEZ infra vandalised” comment is, as an example, so very worrying.  In the Conservatives, here is a party happy to send signals to enable the mob to attack RNLI stations, beat up immigrants, shout at teachers, doctors etc. 

This right-wing stuff works by allowing/enabling significant privileged groups to to think of themselves as the downtrodden underdog and here is a way to fight back.  The pro Brexit campaign played on people’s ignorance, fears and prejudices exactly as this does. 

It’s all about freedom, innit, less regulation, less tax burden, and damn the climate.  There’s more polar bears now, so it’s fine.  Let’s have open-cast coal mining, lithium mining and fracking. The section on climate change stumbles around like a Friday night drunk, trying to explain he wasn’t being racist to the barman – a denier position emerges, unsurprisingly.

In places, the mask really slips: “We must keep divisive woke ideologies such as Critical Race Theory (CRT) and gender ideology out of the classroom.” – to be honest, I don’t even know what those two are.

The standard enemies are put up – the civil service, the BBC.  Amid all the thrust and parry, there’s nothing  about making a better, more inclusive and cohesive world to live in; arts, sports and culture don’t feature in this barstool view of the world: a dullard’s grim vision.

Don’t be a member of the wrong sort of minority would be my advice, should any of this come to pass. 
 

https://www.reformparty.uk/reformisessential

Topic

[chrisonabike]

hawkinspeter wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

essexian wrote:

I feel the 320 plus people murdered under Thatchers orders on the General Belgrano may beg to differ. 

Well, yes, but I don’t think Thatcher was intending to bathe in their blood to keep her youthful, good looks.

Now on the lookout for that connection popping up in a generative pre-trained transformer…

[David9694]

quite a quite a lot there

quite a quite a lot there that Cugel cites that I don’t notice you arguing with. 

[chrisonabike]

Stalemate – game drawn by

Stalemate – game drawn by constant repetition…

[David9694]

It’s standard driver “poor

It’s standard driver “poor little me” stuff “what about cyclists passing me within 1.5 metres” stuff, it’s the “all lives matter” stuff. 

As the Lisa Simpson meme says, “none of your problems are down to people on welfare” – but it is, they insist, “there’s only so many hospital beds, only so many school places, look at the terrible people coming to take those away from you.”

[ErnieC]

Rich_cb wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

I think all of society is guilty of it to some degree. In my opinion, those on the left seem to be the most blind to their own hatred but I’m sure I’m biased.

No, you’re wrong Rich_cb, those on the left are all loving and hatred is an unknown concept to them. Apparently. 

[perce]

Ah yes. The Victorian values

Ah yes. The Victorian values the tories would like to bring back, where everyone knew their place. I also remember the films they used to show us at primary school glorifying our wonderful empire. They always seemed to feature an Indian tea plantation for some reason, with lots of happy smiling faces. It made me think I’d like to work on an Indian tea plantation. But I was only nine.

[mark1a]

Just got back from a ride –

Just got back from a ride – anything much happened here?

[Cugel]

Rich_cb wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

I stand by what I said earlier. If you think the current government is far right then you need to read a history book. You’ve created a label for the “Toryspivs” and you hold them responsible for multiple ills. I did enjoy “fraudulent elections” though, it was the point you went full tinfoil hat, I’m guessing we’ve never had a legitimate government by your definition?

History – I recall the GCE O-level books they gave us in skool – how the Bwitish Empire was gweat and we gave the lucky creatures who begin at Calais oh so many advantages. In fact, we just robbed and killed them until Little Bwitain got too weak to prevent them chucking us out.

“History shall be kind to me, as I intend to write it”.  Who said that, eh?  🙂 Personally I prefer the Foucault anaysis of how history is dreamt up and writ. Essentially, by the “winners”, composed of justifications for their often evil deeds and beliefs, many of which they also denied! Alternative histories of a less self-serving kind are available, you know. But you won’t like them. No.

**********

The in-group I refer to as Toryspivs have grouped themselves with no help from me.  They clot together in a cabal rife with corrupt practices employing their ill-gotten political power. The policies, attitudes and beliefs giving rise to those “multiple ills” are not denied by Toryspiv. Indeed, they’re quite proud and boastful about them. See gutter press for details.

**************

Yes, I’d claim that any government having less than most of the votes in a general election but who were first past the post is illegitimate in a polity claiming to be democratic. The practice often, albeit not always, results in a minority government that most people didn’t vote for. In addition, the “opposition” is virtually pwerless so that the partisan first-past-the-posters serve only their own whims and those of their familiars.

And its a standing joke (a very dark one) that virtually no government formed in this way, other than perhaps that of Attlee, ever does what their manifesto for the election said they would do. Bare faced lies are the norm.

********

We Blighters have lived in a compromised nation-state for decades, with only a very few occasions when politicians in power worked for everyone. When they did (Attlee again) the usual Tory tactic was to row back any good policies towards their fundamental strategic intent of taking matters back to their glorious C19th peak of exploitation of everyone and everything unto the death in one or another satanic mill.

They’re nearly there now, eh? Satanic mills, physical and metaphysical, are legion.

[hawkinspeter]

David9694 wrote:

What examples of anti-semitism under Corbyn’s leadership actually are there?

Good whataboutery on the Nazi party of Germany. Like Brexit, the party cause is whatever we say it is – there are a few loose MAGA type basic principles, but it seems to me a lot of it about creating this situation/atmosphere where folk with ideas that appeal no matter how bizarre or heinous get an airing and get to put this stuff into practice.

Govenrment is there to protect us from foreign invasion (or untoward influence, rather than troops landing at Hastings), to protect us from the worst effects of big business, while ensuring the country is prosperous, ensure justice and protect people from crime and the mob; I would argue that in modern times there is stuff to do  around health and well-being, safety.  

Can you honestly say the Tories have succeeded at any of that on any level in the past 10 years?   Do you believe they ever will, or have I with my O level, A level*, degree in politics, post grad certificate in policy admimstration and lifetime career in public service got the wrong definition of what the public should expect?

* OK, the A level was a bit shit – blame girls, or rather a girl. 

I believe it was mainly a small minority of Labour supporters making antisemitic posts online.

In July 2019:

Corbyn wrote:

While other political parties and some of the media exaggerate and distort the scale of the problem in our party, we must face up to the unsettling truth that a small number of Labour members hold anti-Semitic views and a larger number don’t recognise anti-Semitic stereotypes and conspiracy theories. The evidence is clear enough. The worst cases of anti-Semitism in our party have included Holocaust denial, crude Jewish-banker stereotypes, conspiracy theories blaming Israel for 9/11 or every war on the Rothschild family, and even one member who appeared to believe that Hitler had been misunderstood. I am sorry for the hurt that has been caused to many Jewish people. We have been too slow in processing disciplinary cases of mostly online anti-Semitic abuse by party members. We are acting to speed this process up. People who hold anti-Semitic views have no place in the Labour Party. They may be few – the number of cases over the past three years represents less than 0.1% of Labour’s membership of more than half a million – but one is too many.

There’s also evidence of political interference with anti-semitic complaints (inappropriate involvement) and generally poor handling of them.

[hawkinspeter]

Rich_cb wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

That’s a pretty decent definition of Nazism but who are you counting as a Nazi? Goebbels/Hitler etc are easy, they directly committed historically awful crimes. They are worthy of hatred. What about an average citizen who only joined the party in order to keep their job? It’s not a straightforward question without an explicit definition of exactly who we’re talking about. Those who directly committed crimes are the obvious ones to condemn but what of those who in some small way enabled those crimes? Those who joined communist parties may have had entirely good motives but did they, in some small way, act an enablers for the atrocities committed in the name of communism that continue to this day? On an entirely different scale, you might not like the policies of the Conservative party but is every voter to be held responsible for every action? Was every Corbyn supporter responsible for the worst examples of antisemitism that occurred under his leadership?

I’d consider people that agree with Nazi ideology to be Nazis. People who were coerced into going along with the Nazi party share some of the blame if they quietly went along with the policies, although I understand it takes bravery to stand up for what’s right.

There’s a saying – what do you get if you let two nazis into your house? A house with three nazis in it.

If people agreed with communist ideology, and then unwittingly took part in authoritarian regimes, then they too share some guilt for their part, though the communist ideology isn’t the problem, but the nature of the regime.

There’s obviously a problem with single party states as they tend towards authoritarianism and corruption and often most people have no say in what’s going on (and that’s assuming that they even know about it). However, in a system with more than one party, you must take some responsibility for which party you vote for. I can understand someone being hookwinked by others, but at some point it should be obvious that you’re propping up the baddies and you must change your allegiance.

I don’t believe that Corbyn supporters had much knowledge about Labour’s antisemitism, and they deserve some blame if they knowingly supported and encouraged antisemitism. I’ve long thought that the Labour party isn’t fit for purpose (e.g. Blair should be tried for war crimes).

[David9694]

What examples of anti

What examples of anti-semitism under Corbyn’s leadership actually are there?

Good whataboutery on the Nazi party of Germany. Like Brexit, the party cause is whatever we say it is – there are a few loose MAGA type basic principles, but it seems to me a lot of it about creating this situation/atmosphere where folk with ideas that appeal no matter how bizarre or heinous get an airing and get to put this stuff into practice.

Govenrment is there to protect us from foreign invasion (or untoward influence, rather than troops landing at Hastings), to protect us from the worst effects of big business, while ensuring the country is prosperous, ensure justice and protect people from crime and the mob; I would argue that in modern times there is stuff to do  around health and well-being, safety.  

Can you honestly say the Tories have succeeded at any of that on any level in the past 10 years?   Do you believe they ever will, or have I with my O level, A level*, degree in politics, post grad certificate in policy admimstration and lifetime career in public service got the wrong definition of what the public should expect?

* OK, the A level was a bit shit – blame girls, or rather a girl. 

[perce]

I remember the Earl of

I remember the Earl of Cardigan who witnessed the police brutality that day being roundly vilified by the press. Another example of thatchers private army. 

[Rich_cb]

That’s a pretty decent
That’s a pretty decent definition of Nazism but who are you counting as a Nazi?

Goebbels/Hitler etc are easy, they directly committed historically awful crimes. They are worthy of hatred.

What about an average citizen who only joined the party in order to keep their job?

It’s not a straightforward question without an explicit definition of exactly who we’re talking about.

Those who directly committed crimes are the obvious ones to condemn but what of those who in some small way enabled those crimes?

Those who joined communist parties may have had entirely good motives but did they, in some small way, act an enablers for the atrocities committed in the name of communism that continue to this day?

On an entirely different scale, you might not like the policies of the Conservative party but is every voter to be held responsible for every action? Was every Corbyn supporter responsible for the worst examples of antisemitism that occurred under his leadership?

[hawkinspeter]

essexian wrote:

essexian wrote:

I feel the 320 plus people murdered under Thatchers orders on the General Belgrano may beg to differ. 

Well, yes, but I don’t think Thatcher was intending to bathe in their blood to keep her youthful, good looks.

[essexian]

I feel the 320 plus people

I feel the 320 plus people murdered under Thatchers orders on the General Belgrano may beg to differ. 

[Author]

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