The Reform Party and the UK’s lurch towards fascism

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  • #32683
    David9694

    I posted an earlier version of this a while back – inspired to do update following THAT discussion about all things ULEZ. 

    The “manifesto”, in terms of transport, only mentions stopping HS2, but there’s plenty on the usual right-wing obsessions: Brexit, immigration, veterans and climate change.  I had another look because I worry about the ongoing decline of the two main political parties. 

    If the Cons stay wedded to Brexit, then we will go into the next GE with all the widespread impoverishment Brexit has ushered in – not helped by Covid, Putin, etc. People generally vote according to their pockets.  I don’t get Labour’s current position on Europe either, but let’s see how that evolves, and even the Cons may also evolve, or even pivot, but time is already running out for them.

    Several roads now lead to the horrors of a further lurch to the right in this country.  Let’s hope Labour get the GE landslide the polls are predicting – but we’re still at least a year out from the real campaigning beginning. 

    A cycling angle? With the Reform Party and its ilk, Facebook Steve and Nextdoor Dave attain real political influence. It’s not spelt out in the manifesto, but you can see where this is probably heading and what it is likely to mean for cycling.  You can bet that this lot are very much “on the side of hard working drivers” etc. 

    As you all know, Dave’s going to “sort the traffic” and no doubt show them lazy planners how it’s done: Steve thinks the Council are corrupt, the police blinkered and is, if he can fit it in to his busy schedule he’s going to “teach them Lycra’s a thing or two.” It won’t concern him that his Mondeo is 3 months out of MoT or that Mrs Steve sometimes drives the kids in it uninsured. 

    As vulnerable road users, vulnerable people, we rely a great deal on the rule of law for protection. The rule of law means that we understand what the laws are, they are in general fair, and how they are applied and to whom is even-handed and consistent. 

    The fascist position is broadly the opposite – it’s all off-the-cuff to support today’s particular agenda – that’s why the Iain Duncan-Smith “happy to see ULEZ infra vandalised” comment is, as an example, so very worrying.  In the Conservatives, here is a party happy to send signals to enable the mob to attack RNLI stations, beat up immigrants, shout at teachers, doctors etc. 

    This right-wing stuff works by allowing/enabling significant privileged groups to to think of themselves as the downtrodden underdog and here is a way to fight back.  The pro Brexit campaign played on people’s ignorance, fears and prejudices exactly as this does. 

    It’s all about freedom, innit, less regulation, less tax burden, and damn the climate.  There’s more polar bears now, so it’s fine.  Let’s have open-cast coal mining, lithium mining and fracking. The section on climate change stumbles around like a Friday night drunk, trying to explain he wasn’t being racist to the barman – a denier position emerges, unsurprisingly.

    In places, the mask really slips: “We must keep divisive woke ideologies such as Critical Race Theory (CRT) and gender ideology out of the classroom.” – to be honest, I don’t even know what those two are.

    The standard enemies are put up – the civil service, the BBC.  Amid all the thrust and parry, there’s nothing  about making a better, more inclusive and cohesive world to live in; arts, sports and culture don’t feature in this barstool view of the world: a dullard’s grim vision.

    Don’t be a member of the wrong sort of minority would be my advice, should any of this come to pass. 
     

    https://www.reformparty.uk/reformisessential

Viewing 15 replies - 841 through 855 (of 891 total)
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  • #1016449
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    David9694

    “This right-wing stuff works

    “This right-wing stuff works by allowing/enabling significant privileged groups to to think of themselves as the downtrodden underdog and here is a way to fight back.”

    #1016445
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    hawkinspeter

    Rich_cb wrote:

    Rich_cb wrote:
    No, it’s an historical quote from a figure I’m assuming you’re not a fan of. It has the exact same tone as your quote. I think it’s correct to condemn those who commit crimes directly. How are you defining Nazi? Should we hate/despise/discourage people who have willingly joined communist parties? Or should we chuckle at squirrels in communist attire?

    Your refusal to answer a straightforward question speaks volumes about your ethics. I notice that you’re only willing to condemn people who directly commit crimes, but that ignores that people can persuade others to do their bidding and commit atrocities on their behalf. Also, a lot of atrocities weren’t necessarily illegal due to the introduction of immoral laws.

    Why would you want to hate people who joined communist parties – is there part of the philosophy that you find objectionable and if so, what? I suspect that you dislike the behaviour of authoritarian communist leaders and the atrocities that they ordered, but that is a separate issue from the philosophy of communism.

    I’d go with something like this for a definition of a Nazi, though modern Nazis are not typically associated with Germany:

    Nazism is a form of fascism, with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. It incorporates a dictatorship, fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, anti-Slavism, scientific racism, white supremacy, social Darwinism and the use of eugenics into its creed. Its extreme nationalism originated in pan-Germanism and the ethno-nationalist neopagan Völkisch movement which had been a prominent aspect of German ultranationalism since the late 19th century, and it was strongly influenced by the Freikorps paramilitary groups that emerged after Germany’s defeat in World War I, from which came the party’s underlying “cult of violence”. Nazism subscribed to pseudo-scientific theories of a racial hierarchy, identifying ethnic Germans as part of what the Nazis regarded as an Aryan or Nordic master race.

    #1016447
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    Rich_cb

    I stand by what I said
    I stand by what I said earlier.

    If you think the current government is far right then you need to read a history book.

    You’ve created a label for the “Toryspivs” and you hold them responsible for multiple ills.

    I did enjoy “fraudulent elections” though, it was the point you went full tinfoil hat, I’m guessing we’ve never had a legitimate government by your definition?

    #1016443
    0
    Cugel

    Rich_cb wrote:

    Rich_cb wrote:
    They’re criminals. That’s a bit of a difference.

    Toryspiv effectively write the laws to suit themselves. Those laws that don’t suit or are unimportant to them in holding up their corrupt New Aristocracy edifice are ignored. Billions of pounds of taxpayer money is corruptly stolen but nothing happens. A few concerned old folk protest about the billions of taxpayer dosh subsidising the oil industry and new laws are writ to persecute them mercilessly.

    Carspivs, meanwhile, maim and murder with gay abandon. Rapists are rife, especially within the police force. Toryspiv cronies steal billions.

    In short, Toryspivs are criminals who’ve decriminalised themselves by employing their vast power to manipulate and corrupt the rule of law. The damage they’re doing is immense – so great that it probably going to end up killing us all in the next 20 or 30 years.

    We’ll die of weather and oligarch.

    #1016441
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    chrisonabike

    Rich_cb wrote:

    Rich_cb wrote:
    Or should we chuckle at squirrels in communist attire?

    Now you’ve done it…

    #1016439
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    Hirsute

    All is forgiven

    All is forgiven

    Peace through Chess

    “We are inviting the local authorities (LAs) who received funding under the Levelling Up Parks Fund (LUPF), to submit an expression of interest (EOI) to receive an additional £2,500 of funding for the purchase and installation of a chess table and accompanying seats or benches in their local parks and/or green spaces.”

    #1016437
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    Rich_cb

    No, it’s an historical quote
    No, it’s an historical quote from a figure I’m assuming you’re not a fan of.

    It has the exact same tone as your quote.

    I think it’s correct to condemn those who commit crimes directly.

    How are you defining Nazi?

    Should we hate/despise/discourage people who have willingly joined communist parties? Or should we chuckle at squirrels in communist attire?

    #1016435
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    Hirsute

    On this ever changing,

    On this ever changing, sliding scale of yours how criminal do your activities have to be before you can legitimately assign someone to an outgroup?

    Do you have a line that can’t be crossed ?

    #1016433
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    Cugel

    Rich_cb wrote:

    Rich_cb wrote:
    I’m not missing the point. You are. Throughout human history people have wanted an outgroup to hate.

    Here’s your problem in a nutshell, dear Rich – you assume that people who merely disagree with you or with people promoting damaging policies that you like are “hating”. The hating emotion is one generally felt by those totalitarian types I mentioned to you, based on their intolerance for anything not in their dogma. Opponents are all sub-human enemies.

    Those of us who find your intolerance (and that of those you defend) intolerable are merely disagreeing with a stance that is damaging because it wants to destroy our fundamental political tradition of democracy. Most people dislike and disagree with (not hate) Toryspiv policies, not the Toryspivs themselves, who they tend to regard as just deranged. 

    Toryspiv want to gaol those who protest their damaging policies but not those lawbreakers who support them. They’re also happy to make policy that will kill their various scapegoats (immigrants, the poor, et al). One supporter has just called for the killing of the London mayor. (He regrets doing so, because he got told off, not because he’s changed his tiny mind)

    Yet I and others who find Toryspivery damaging and best stopped hate no one. I don’t hate the Toryspivs who are so damaging to us all. Even their policies and various acts don’t invoke feelings of hatred in me but rather feelings of fear and loathing, since they seem to be policies that are well on the road to fascism.

    You deny the current Tory party is far right, yet they have many of the markers:

    Powerful and continuing faux nationalism.

    Disdain for the recognition of human rights.

    Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.

    Control and suborning of the mass media.

    Obsession with national security and borders.

    Corporate power is protected no matter their damages and crimes.

    Unions and other power rivals are suppressed.

    Disdain for intellectuals and the arts.

    Obsession with crime and punishment – but not for “friends”.

    Rampant cronyism and corruption.

    Fraudulent elections (aka first past the post system).

    Attempts to subvert and suborn other agencies with power such as the judiciary.

    Distain for the rule of law except as a means of suppressing political rivals, scapegoats and pariahs – but not their “friends”.

    *********

    Face it – you approve of proto-fascists and hate their opponents out of a basic stance of intolerance. Your mind is unable to understand any other attitude so you assume opponents are haters just like yourself. Happily, ’tis not so.

    #1016431
    0
    hawkinspeter

    Rich_cb wrote:

    Rich_cb wrote:
    That’s not your quote but it’s identical in tone to your quote from earlier in the thread.

    So you’re just making shit up then?

    Simple question – do you think it’s morally correct to hate/despise/discourage Nazis?

    #1016429
    0
    Rich_cb

    That’s not your quote but it
    That’s not your quote but it’s identical in tone to your quote from earlier in the thread.

    #1016427
    0
    chrisonabike

    Rich_cb wrote:

    Rich_cb wrote:
    I think all of society is guilty of it to some degree. In my opinion, those on the left seem to be the most blind to their own hatred but I’m sure I’m biased.

    Nice – but I guess as framed this question is inherently tempting this kind of answer.  Hence my note about degree.  However that is also probably a doomed avenue because “who judges?” and it’s relative (“your team do it far more than my team”).

    So back to “what action this leads to”.

    They hanged the kulaks* (well – deported and/or shot, it seems).  Other minorities / out-groups also clearly have it worse *in general* (normally with notable exceptions).

    At a much more trivial level I have had some abuse and things thrown at me when cycling.  Of course perhaps it wasn’t the bike, could have been random agression or maybe my taste in clothing (not normally “cycling” gear) is triggering for some?

    * There is something to your note about a “constructed group” – because e.g. changing your race is not normally an option.  However that argument only goes so far; normally the definition is made by the majority / oppressor anyway and is often effectively arbitrary.  And once you’ve been labelled (“I know you – you’re from a purple family”) it may be very difficult to remove the label.

    #1016425
    0
    hawkinspeter

    Rich_cb wrote:

    Rich_cb wrote:
    Keep justifying your hatred if you want. The same arguments have been made multiple times before. “The treatment they receive from us is hardly unjust. They have deserved it all.”

    What the blazes are you on about?

    What treatment are you referring to?

    Is it some imagined treatment that makes you into a victim?

    #1016423
    0
    Rich_cb

    Likewise any political party.
    Likewise any political party.

    #1016421
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    Rich_cb

    Is any political party
    Is any political party different?

    You can’t out group an entire segment of the population because their politicians are doing what all politicians do.

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