[David9694]

I posted an earlier version of this a while back – inspired to do update following THAT discussion about all things ULEZ. 

The “manifesto”, in terms of transport, only mentions stopping HS2, but there’s plenty on the usual right-wing obsessions: Brexit, immigration, veterans and climate change.  I had another look because I worry about the ongoing decline of the two main political parties. 

If the Cons stay wedded to Brexit, then we will go into the next GE with all the widespread impoverishment Brexit has ushered in – not helped by Covid, Putin, etc. People generally vote according to their pockets.  I don’t get Labour’s current position on Europe either, but let’s see how that evolves, and even the Cons may also evolve, or even pivot, but time is already running out for them.

Several roads now lead to the horrors of a further lurch to the right in this country.  Let’s hope Labour get the GE landslide the polls are predicting – but we’re still at least a year out from the real campaigning beginning. 

A cycling angle? With the Reform Party and its ilk, Facebook Steve and Nextdoor Dave attain real political influence. It’s not spelt out in the manifesto, but you can see where this is probably heading and what it is likely to mean for cycling.  You can bet that this lot are very much “on the side of hard working drivers” etc. 

As you all know, Dave’s going to “sort the traffic” and no doubt show them lazy planners how it’s done: Steve thinks the Council are corrupt, the police blinkered and is, if he can fit it in to his busy schedule he’s going to “teach them Lycra’s a thing or two.” It won’t concern him that his Mondeo is 3 months out of MoT or that Mrs Steve sometimes drives the kids in it uninsured. 

As vulnerable road users, vulnerable people, we rely a great deal on the rule of law for protection. The rule of law means that we understand what the laws are, they are in general fair, and how they are applied and to whom is even-handed and consistent. 

The fascist position is broadly the opposite – it’s all off-the-cuff to support today’s particular agenda – that’s why the Iain Duncan-Smith “happy to see ULEZ infra vandalised” comment is, as an example, so very worrying.  In the Conservatives, here is a party happy to send signals to enable the mob to attack RNLI stations, beat up immigrants, shout at teachers, doctors etc. 

This right-wing stuff works by allowing/enabling significant privileged groups to to think of themselves as the downtrodden underdog and here is a way to fight back.  The pro Brexit campaign played on people’s ignorance, fears and prejudices exactly as this does. 

It’s all about freedom, innit, less regulation, less tax burden, and damn the climate.  There’s more polar bears now, so it’s fine.  Let’s have open-cast coal mining, lithium mining and fracking. The section on climate change stumbles around like a Friday night drunk, trying to explain he wasn’t being racist to the barman – a denier position emerges, unsurprisingly.

In places, the mask really slips: “We must keep divisive woke ideologies such as Critical Race Theory (CRT) and gender ideology out of the classroom.” – to be honest, I don’t even know what those two are.

The standard enemies are put up – the civil service, the BBC.  Amid all the thrust and parry, there’s nothing  about making a better, more inclusive and cohesive world to live in; arts, sports and culture don’t feature in this barstool view of the world: a dullard’s grim vision.

Don’t be a member of the wrong sort of minority would be my advice, should any of this come to pass. 
 

https://www.reformparty.uk/reformisessential

Topic

[Rich_cb]

What part is disingenuous?
What part is disingenuous?

Wales sets its own health budget and makes its own health policies.

Wales receives (per capita) £1.20 for every £1 spent on devolved public services in England. Wales then chooses how to spend that money.

For every £1 that the Westminster government spend on the English NHS the Welsh government receive the equivalent of £1.20.

However they choose to only spend £1.05 on the Welsh NHS and then blame England for the underperformance. The graph I posted neatly shows the consequences for the Welsh public.

[Rendel Harris]

Rich_cb wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

It is actually not well known that Wales has an entirely independent health system.

You know perfectly well what a disingenuous statement that is: Wales is reliant on the direct grant from the UK government which is worth 15% less in real terms than it was a decade ago. Additionally your beloved Brexit has removed very significant funding from the EU. Fairly standard Tory behaviour, take away the lifebelt and then ask why is that man drowning.

[Rich_cb]

Is it 2%?
Is it 2%?

I’m not sure the relevance of that?

[Hirsute]

Your last one resulted in
Your last one resulted in huge borrowing – now at 2.5 trillion.
They may have tinkered with tax allowances but that hasn’t changed for 5 years now. Remind me what’s the NI rate over 50270?

[Rich_cb]

It is actually not well known
It is actually not well known that Wales has an entirely independent health system.

Hence, foolish comments like yours.

The simple fact is that the global financial crisis and the pandemic have both made providing public services incredibly challenging. The Conservatives have done a better job of it than Labour.

If a Labour leader would have been so much better for the UK why haven’t Labour in Wales produced similar results?

[David9694]

Wales whataboutery deflection

Wales whataboutery deflection is it now – that well-known independent state with it its own laws and revenues. But somehow it’s me clutching at straws.  

What a weak position to have to resort to – that and a “poor little me” out group. You clearly have no argument to make in relation to last night’s post. 

Finally, some Labour / UK whataboutery from me – Labour (and as noted above the Tories) have not in the last 25 years been at all good at picking talented, winning party leaders. Thousands of people would have enjoyed better, more prosperous and longer lives in this country had Labour found a good successor to Blair/Brown all those years ago.

[Rich_cb]

I’m not aware of any 20th
I’m not aware of any 20th century democracies that committed Communist level atrocities against their own citizens?

You’re right, of course, that democracies have still engaged in awful behaviour oth at home and abroad but that’s not a fundamental feature of a democracy, plenty of democracies don’t.

All communist states have, AFAIK, engaged in large scale human rights abuses.

[Rich_cb]

You’re really clutching at
You’re really clutching at straws there.

All of those things have happened as a direct result of government policy. CO2 emissions would likely have fallen despite who was in power but the extent of the fall is significantly larger due to government policy.

Healthcare is not in a good place in England but it’s far better than in Wales where health is run by the Labour party and has been for 25 years+.

Sewage spills are just as bad in Wales.

Pandemic mortality was worse in Wales.

JSO demonised themselves, I personally think they are more damaging to the climate movement than any politician in this country.

[David9694]

how much has happened despite

how much has happened despite them, not because of? I guess if you conform I.e. are working, educated, able that list might have some resonance. Ordinary people? People who have problems? 

interest rates, inflation  – continuing strikes in rail, health – yet tonnes of money to throw at stopping the boats

demonising Just Stop Oil – this is a major long-term failure by those who may  live long enough to see its consequences. I know you will whatabout on China, etc but I reject your distraction (ditto inflation in Germany or wherever ) It’s great about renewables, but now being undone with more gas and oil announced. 

Health – that would be why there is unprecented industrial unrest?  Consulants AND trainees on strike. Staggering waiting lists for treatments many will die waiting and no serious recovery plan in sight. NHS dentistry now pot luck. How many new hospitals promised was it? 

Active travel, but now it’s “we’re on the side of the motorists” £2 bus fares – a great little idea but doesn’t form a strategy for a little island that is grinding to a halt on current trends. 

poo and other nasties in the sea – this is basic stuff, as is policing  – no serious plan to address either. 

the whole ongoing  “boats” debacle – pandering to bigots, Bobby Stockholm, multiple court cases, demonising of leftie lawyers per Cugel’s list of fascist tendencies. 

pandemic – PPE-gate, Partygate; the worst possible leader we could have had at the outset of the pandemic – equivocated for a month on lockdown.

Peroguing of Parliament – stopped only by the Supreme Court and the Good Law Project. A really dangerous moment – I hope a one-off.  

Liz Truss – and whatever it was happened there – after a leadership contest that took all summer. 30p, Nadine Dorries – she is right re zombie govt. 

The flags (seem to have largely gone now) fad.

All founded on the pack of lies and house built on sand that is Brexit.

[chrisonabike]

Rich_cb wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

Has there ever been a communist regime that didn’t lead to large scale state sanctioned human rights abuses? I’m not aware of any. That suggests that the ideology may be part of the problem.

I think the abuses and problems with communist states are well documented.  However aside from complaints about definition (“those were not true communist regimes, they’re merely autocracies which have usurped a power vacuum…”) they’re a fairly new feature e.g. newer than democracies.  Comparing to things in the past is problematic I know but the Greeks did give us the word!

It may be easier for a communist state to “go bad” but unfortunately democracies also do.  They also have not been shown to be much less lethal – even to their own citizens.

I’m reminded of Primo Levi’s quote about Nazi and Soviet camps being a “lugubrious comparison between two models of hell”.

For most of us in e.g. the UK now we experience historically very mild levels of oppression from the state (e.g. they merely steal a little of our money via taxation and occasionally lock us up).  So it’s easy to overlook that our own states continue to do bad things to some (and have done terrible things in recent memory).

If you lived somewhere – for example – the US took a strategic interest in or dislike to (under Republicans or Democrats both) then … good luck.

[chrisonabike]

Yeah – the point of being in

Yeah – the point of being in power is being in power.  Other concerns are secondary.

Recall Peter Mandelson being “intensely relaxed” about people getting filthy rich.  Although many years later he did wish to change the record on that…

Probably best get lobbying your local lugal and get some improvements for active travel where you are at least.  I suspect that – with a minimum standard of quality and connection – and once you cross the 10% (say) of journeys cycled threshold – it’s clear wins for everyone going forward.

Plus all positions of the the UK political spectrum should be able to spin it as aligned with their ideology.  Socialist (equitably distributed benefits no matter if you’re rich, poor, have disabilities, are old, are a child – although actually it’s great for people driving also).  But also a “facilitating private enterprise / smaller state / individualist” party ought to be able to see benefit too!

[NOtotheEU]

Fortunately we have a choice,

Fortunately we have a choice, we can vote Labour because they aren’t in the corporations pockets like those other fascists . . . . . 

Labour partly rows back on workers’ rights pledges

Party amends plan to bolster protections for gig economy as it boasts of ‘pro-business’ credentials

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/18/labour-party-workers-rights-pledges-gig-economy-business

 

Oh well, looks like the Socialist Party will be getting my vote again then.

[Rich_cb]

Has there ever been a
Has there ever been a communist regime that didn’t lead to large scale state sanctioned human rights abuses?

I’m not aware of any.

That suggests that the ideology may be part of the problem.

No political party is perfect, any vote for any party is always going to be a compromise. You’ve got to accept that some policies won’t be to your liking and choose the party that’s closest to your ideals.

I have no regrets about voting Conservative as I’m sure the alternative, in the shape of Corbyn, would have been far worse.

Corbyn’s antisemitism was very well known, I seriously doubt many people who took an interest in politics were unaware of it.

[Rich_cb]

There have been some
There have been some significant successes over the last 13 years.

Minimum wage reform.
Tax threshold reform.
Pension reform.
Huge expansion of renewable energy generation.
Huge decreases in the UK’s carbon footprint.
They’ve also done a much better job of running health and education than their devolved equivalents in Wales.
There’s also the small matter of navigating both a global financial crisis and a global pandemic without any periods of large scale unemployment.

[David9694]

I think she genuinely

I think she genuinely believed that capitalists and capitalism would behave admirably over time if you entrusted public service to them. Perhaps those she knew herself gave her grounds for this – but over time, people move on, interests change, money and investment factors and profit motive return to type.

Back most of us go to the serfdom of the Industrial Revolution – it’s all there in Dickens, Mrs Gaskell, even Austen. 
 

The abiding message from this government is “you’re on your own” – no guard or platform staff on your train to turn to, no nurse, doctor or care worker in your hour of need, no police when you become a victim of crime. 

[Author]

Replies