Edinburgh cyclist in go-slow protest after tram driver beeps her at traffic lights

Maybe the cyclist was watching their phone?
That's the trouble with this article. We do not have enough information to draw a fair conclusion. It could easily be either of them in the wrong here, we just do not know.

I think it depends how and where (and when) you ride.  And what you pay attention to.  For most of us cycling is probably a lot of good time - or self-inflicted suffering - with a few frustrating or terrifying moments.  Those will be very salient however and some folks on here have posted that they'd had enough to stop riding on roads.  Equally there are a few (apparent) roadies who claim to have avoided trouble / not be bothered.  For others this is the place where we should be holding cyclists to account - otherwise we're hypocrites.

I'm able to avoid mixing with traffic for much of many of my daily journeys.  I've also only had a few genuinely "I'm going to die" moments.  Obviously I do get more of the lower grade issues e.g. shouted abuse or revving / beeping, "they haven't seen me, better avoid / that was a bit close".

You're right that it can build up though.  I've occasionally become that lunatic getting triggered because you're the nth person I've seen pulling in to park up in a cycle lane.

I'm not sure that pissing people off at length, just because they've momentarily dissed you, actually makes them reflect on their own, initial fault. I suspect it just makes them more likely to dislike you/us.
As others have said, we don't know all the details of this situation but to the Average Joe, I suspect this just reinforces "bloody cyclist" prejudice. Which may be unjustified - but also seems foreseeable.

Duncann wrote:

I'm not sure that pissing people off at length, just because they've momentarily dissed you, actually makes them reflect on their own, initial fault. I suspect it just makes them more likely to dislike you/us.
As others have said, we don't know all the details of this situation but to the Average Joe, I suspect this just reinforces "bloody cyclist" prejudice. Which may be unjustified - but also seems foreseeable.

Appeasement rarely works with bullies, but going slow in front of them seems an appropriate response to them acting like an asshole. The Average Joe gets angry at cyclists for any reason, so we shouldn't care what they think as they're just plain wrong.

The only bully discernible here is the cyclist, who delayed a tramload of passengers who had done her no wrong, just because she had power over them. The tram can't pass, and neither it nor the driver were a threat.

You call the driver a bully and an asshole but you don't even know why they tooted (which could have been an appropriate action).

Agreed, we know nothing abt it, or abt who (if anyone) is bullying, but seems to me we do know the tram driver is making what-to-do decisions all day, every day, and will be more rather than less careful about tooting in future so, short of any detail to start taking sides, that's fine by me.

Duncann wrote:

The only bully discernible here is the cyclist, who delayed a tramload of passengers who had done her no wrong, just because she had power over them. The tram can't pass, and neither it nor the driver were a threat.

You call the driver a bully and an asshole but you don't even know why they tooted (which could have been an appropriate action).

I wasn't directly accusing the tram driver as I wasn't there and can only go by the article's description. However, if I had to bet money, I'd be backing the cyclist (as a cyclist myself...). I can't think why the cyclist would do a deliberate go-slow if they were themselves at fault, but it's not impossible.

Yes, the tram passengers are innocent, but are you suggesting that tram drivers should not fear any consequences of their actions due to their passengers? It reminds me of the argument that boycotting businesses is unfair as there will be innocent employees.

By the way, it's not accurate to call a cyclist a bully as they're significantly smaller and less powerful than a tram, so it's more of a protest than bullying.

'By the way, it's not accurate to call a cyclist a bully as they're significantly smaller and less powerful than a tram, so it's more of a protest than bullying.'

codswallop.. the Karen on the bike got her nose out of joint because she got tooted, no doubt because she was slow to move when the light went green; by deliberately riding slowly in front of the tram, knowing that a tram can't overtake and the driver is prevented by law from nudging her out of the way, she most certainly bullied the tram driver by her actions.

grOg wrote:

'By the way, it's not accurate to call a cyclist a bully as they're significantly smaller and less powerful than a tram, so it's more of a protest than bullying.'

codswallop.. the Karen on the bike got her nose out of joint because she got tooted, no doubt because she was slow to move when the light went green; by deliberately riding slowly in front of the tram, knowing that a tram can't overtake and the driver is prevented by law from nudging her out of the way, she most certainly bullied the tram driver by her actions.

Whether you agree with her actions or not doesn't change the fact that she was not bullying as she is the smaller, weaker party.

The tram driver tooted as she didn't move when the light went green; normal practice, not bullying; as for the entitled cyclist, it should be a traffic offence deliberately slowing in front of another vehicle.

Offences for driving too slowly can be treated in a number of ways.

Firstly, you could just receive a verbal warning from a police officer but for more severe offences you could be prosecuted for careless driving. 

Careless driving, or driving without due care and attention, carries a number of different punishments.

Points can be handed to motorists with a frequency of three up to nine and even instant disqualification.

There is no set fine limit for driving without due care and attention meaning motorists could be handed an endorsement up to £5,000.

In Australia, police can decide a road user is driving too slowly if they are obstructing the movement of other road users or pedestrians, and they can then be dealt with under part 2 of Rule 125 of the Australian Road Rules, which is applied across all states and territories.

It falls under the category of “unreasonably obstructing drivers or pedestrians”, with the rules stating that “a driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian”.

grOg wrote:

The tram driver tooted as she didn't move when the light went green; normal practice, not bullying; as for the entitled cyclist, it should be a traffic offence deliberately slowing in front of another vehicle.

In the UK, grog, a horn can only be sounded legally for very specific reasons.  Regardless of it being "normal practice", many of the occasions on which a horn is sounded do not fall under those legal/specific reasons...

Highway Code wrote:

Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively. You MUST NOT use your horn

while stationary on the road
when driving in a built-up area between the hours of 11.30 pm and 7.00 am

except when another road user poses a danger.

Or just don't take a side at all but roll onto the next thing. Sunday and sunny out there.

how about the cyclist just waves in response and rides on..

If an article involves a bike, no matter how tenuous the link roadcc are on it, even more so if it involves conflict

Reminds me of a dashcam video on Youtube the other day. Loads of example of cars being arseholes (cammers also included). Submissions shows Motorbike going through a red light but cyclist stopping at it. Comment down below "Look a rarity, a cyclist not going through a red light". Yet not one comment of all the motor vehicles going through them in other parts of the video including crashes.

Being a resident Chris, what sort of horn do these teams have?

Two tone like a train , single insistent like an impatient car driver, I'd always assumed a loud ding ding like cable cars in the movies from San Fransisco?

They've got a warning bell and an emergency horn. The bell's pretty loud, 95 decibels I believe. Bizarrely, after a tram killed someone on an off-road section, the horn was measured and it turned out quieter than the bell, the tram operator was ordered to make it louder. I imagine it was the bell involved here.

Don't get why Chris reckons the cyclist should have moved out of the way, this happened at the junction with Charlotte St where cyclists, trams, buses and any other permitted traffic have to share a single lane through the junction (with hazardous tram rails thrown in). The cyclist would no doubt have moved  over once through the junction if the tram driver hadn't been an impatient plonker.

Charlotte St. - my bad, I'd skimmed past that.  I was thinking of further East - although there the left lane is normally full of buses.  Yes - only one way through here - you stick to the lane.  I avoid getting between the tram tracks as much as I can however.  I've not slipped on those ones but have elsewhere and watched a pal go down hard once in Princes Street (no lasting injury).

Can't recall a horn.  They've got a rather dull bell (recording - somehow it sounds like a recording too to me).  They ignored my suggestions for bells as well as the horn.

It can get noisy there but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be surprised by a tram sneaking up on me.  But mostly I wouldn't be there.  Unless I had business on Princes Street I'd probably go via the parallel George Street - better for bikes.

By a matter of seconds, so hardly life changing.  Beeping someone as soon as the lights change in the classic New York second is not fun

ive done similar to Hawkins - drivers who block half the cycle box get me in front and then I'll slowwwwwwwlllllllllyyyyyy move off 

Well that makes you a terrorist clearly.  I'm trying to make myself happier by just letting it go.  Some drivers screw up, the paint on some of these in Edinburgh has worn away almost entirely, some of these drivers seem are aggressive types and likely neither their driving nor my life would be improved by having a confrontation with them.

I'd probably have a go if I found them in a protected bike lane though so it's probably because I'm not so keen on ASL bike boxes anyway.  I know a few find them helpful but I think they're a symptom of "haven't understood how to make bike infra".