One cyclist was all it took to bring the so-called ‘People’s Convoy’ protest by American truckers grinding to a halt in Washington DC yesterday, reports Newsweek.
A video posted to Twitter on Saturday showing the cyclist riding slowly in front of the lead truck went viral on the social network, attracting more than 4 million views at the time of writing.
Posted from the account @ShutDown_DC, which describes itself in its biography as “an organizing space where individuals and groups can come together to organize direct action in the fight for justice,” the tweet said: “Big powerful convoy slowed down by… a single bicyclist.”
It was accompanied by the hashtags, #DCMeansDontCome and #ConvoyGoHome.
A subsequent tweet said: “Shoutout to all the activists who have been tracking and fucking with this silly convoy since they got to the area.”
Shoutout to all the activists who have been tracking and fucking with this silly convoy since they got to the area
— ShutDownDC (@ShutDown_DC) March 20, 2022
Comprising hundreds of drivers of trucks and other vehicles, the ‘People’s Convoy’ is said to have been inspired by the ‘Freedom Convoy’ protest in Ottawa last month that brought the Canadian capital to a standstill.
Setting off in February from Adelanto, California, among other things it protests against what a spokesperson quoted in the Washington Post describes as “unscientific and illogical mandates” to wear masks and get vaccinated against COVID-19.
Brian Brase, one of the organisers of the convoy, told the newspaper: “It’s time to remind the government, not just here in the US but across the world, that they work for us.
“This convoy, and these truckers, believe in freedom and your right to do, to think, to act and say what you feel. At this point, it is the civic duty of the American people to stand up.
“Freedom takes sacrifice, and since it’s been lost, it is this convoy that will begin to stand up and take it back.”
While the convoy may have received a warm reception as it travelled through America’s heartland, the reaction in Washington DC has been rather less welcoming, with people in this video shot by Axios reporter Andrew Solender heard telling the truckers to “go home” and “fuck off.”
The trucker convoy is making its way through Capitol Hill horns blaring, with residents yelling at them to “go home” and “fuck off” pic.twitter.com/Mb7hSyEqG1
— Andrew Solender (@AndrewSolender) March 17, 2022
97 thoughts on “Video: Lone cyclist stops ‘People’s Convoy’ trucker protest in Washington DC”
That is some fine slow riding
That is some fine slow riding.
I’m not sure I get it.
I’m not sure I get it. Cyclist stops truckers bringing traffic to a standstill by by bringing traffic to a standstill?
So a group called ShutDownDC
So a group called ShutDownDC is complaining about the trucker convoy attempting to . . . . . shut down DC?
Am I missing something?
NOtotheEU wrote:
Common sense, basic understanding and about 50 IQ points, I’d reckon. When the good people of the East End demonstrated against Mosley’s blackshirts demonstrating there, were they wrong to use a demonstration to stop a demonstration?
WOW, you are incredibly rude,
WOW, you are incredibly rude, having a bad day?
I’m pretty sure the good people of the East End did not want Fascism, while the truckers and (unless I’m really misunderstanding their name) ShutDownDC both want to, er, shut down DC.
Anyway, I hope your day improves.
NOtotheEU wrote:
My dog has four legs and a tail, my cat has four legs and a tail, therefore my dog is a cat. The police want to close Whitehall for Remembrance Day ceremonies, Insulate Britain want close Whitehall to protest about environmental issues, so hey, they must have basically the same aims? I apologise for my assumption about your IQ, I was being way too generous.
I was originally trying to
I was originally trying to make an amusing comment on the situation and obviously failed miserably to understand the complete lack of a sense of humour in the readers of this website so I apologise sincerely for that.
If you mistakenly thought I was making some sort of political point and decided to troll me then well done. You fooled me and I took it seriously so maybe my IQ isn’t as high as I thought. If however you are trying to make a serious point then you are not doing yourself any favours with your analogies, none so far have been in any way comparable to this situation, at least in the way you intended.
@ShutDownDC say “ShutdownDC uses strategic direct action to advance justice and hold officials accountable. Based on the statements I have read the truckers have similar aims. The politics of both sides may be different but their aims are, on the surface, very similar, which is what my failed attempt at humour was implying.
Fascists and anti-Fascists have very different aims, as do the police and Insulate Britain. Cats and dogs do not protest as far as I know, but they do often dislike each other at the same time as wanting the same things (survival and reproduction) so this was at least a similar situation, although you obviously used it in a completely different context.
If you are trying seriously to show us how superior your ‘common sense, basic understanding and I.Q points’ are you’ll have to try much harder. If you are just trolling me then well done, you got me again!
Please don’t forget we are all (I assume) cyclists here and face the same dangers and problems every day so whether you are being serious or just trolling, please try to keep it civil and have a nice day.
NOtotheEU wrote:
Spot on.
(No subject)
Good comeback, you’ve really
Good comeback, you’ve really put me in my place!
At least I know you’ve just been trolling me now, kinda makes me wonder what more constructive things I could have done with all the time I wasted typing.
Who am I kidding, I would have just wasted that time on something else on the internet instead.
Rendel Harris wrote:
Only 50? Generous.
Are you the ‘village idiot’
Are you the ‘village idiot’ in another guise?
Lukas wrote:
Not sure…. Roulereo is another strong contender….. the use of the phrase “echo chamber” and a few other crucial key phrases, “the left” “cancel culture” “political elite” make me think that could be him
Looks like a peaceful protest
Looks like a peaceful protest and a peaceful counter-protest.
Democracy at its best.
Agree on first video, second
Agree on first video, second one I suppose depends on the definition of “peaceful”.
100 Decibels of truck engines and 150 decibels of truck horn multiple times is not that peaceful.
I think most protests are
I think most protests are noisy, I was obviously referring to the, apparent, lack of violence and/or property damage.
The truck horns would annoy me if I lived nearby but that’s very much a price worth paying for the freedom to protest.
Weird to think that’s now at
Weird to think that’s now at risk in the UK as it’d be at risk of causing ‘serious annoyance’ – or similar language – if the new crime bill goes through.
The right to peaceful protest
The right to peaceful protest should be sacrosanct but I am concerned about protests on railways/motorways etc as the risk to public safety is high and the definition of peaceful protest is therefore stretched IMO.
Most protests are indeed
Most protests are indeed noisy, although not sure if the combined chanting of a crowd (About 90 decibels) is comparable to noises that all health guidances state can cause hearing damages if happening for more then a few mins.
At least we now know one of
At least we now know one of Previously banned poster Boos / Nigel / Lance new alter egos on this site.
Weird name – Check.
Intentionally misconstruing a video – check
Stating something to show he is an Alt Right dick – check.
The Left can’t cope with any
The Left can’t cope with any opposing opinion, this is just another example.
Not content to use their mainstream media, the echo chamber of Twitter and its dictatorial Tech Bosses, Cancel Culture, claims of ‘misinformation’, and the harshest of Lockdowns to crush any dissent, they can’t cope with peaceful protest.
Next step is to smear anyone who wants to keep their basic freedoms as a Nazi.
Washington DC is the home of the political gravy train, the political elite’s livelihoods depend on perpetuating this crushing group think, so it’s no wonder they yell at anyone who dares question it. These elites hate the majority of the population, that is clear.
Look at Trudeau and his efforts in Canada, using the media to hack donors to Truckers protesting, then happily doxing them. Using war time powers to stop Truckers from refueling, all because they peacefully protest.
There are no greater hypocrits than those on the Left, who claim to be for free speech and people’s rights.
Yummy word salad
Yummy word salad
Could be a new Mark V. Shaney
Could be a new Mark V. Shaney? Doesn’t do much for me – I much preferred Boatsie! But that’ll be the left-wing elite dictator in me…
A bit one sided but I
A bit one sided but I generally agree. These truckers have legit grievances but have been unable to articulate and identify with the right parties in power, and the liberal parties in power have been wholly useless at attempting to understand and empathize with these groups, instead alienating them even more. But staying on topic, the bicycle is a humbling equaliser, both idiot and intellectual alike are equals when put on two wheels.
Blackthorne wrote:
Coule you please enunciate, say, three of them?
John Stevenson wrote:
I confess that I have no idea what they are protesting about (U.S. politics seems too polarised to make any sense to me), but people seem to be throwing around the vaguest of words – “freedom”. I’d be interested in what their specific grievances are.
The primary call is to end
The primary call is to end all Covid mandates everywhere in the US, including all facemask restrictions and any mandatory vaccinations (e.g. for healthcare providers). However, as with the Canada protests, a lot of other “freedom” campaigners have hitched their wagon to it, literally or metaphorically – you know, like the freedom to own guns, the freedom to live in a neighbourhood without immigrants, the freedom to tell women what to do with their bodies and so forth…
Rendel Harris wrote:
I’m struggling to see how being demented and stupid amounts to a ‘legitimate grievance’.
John Stevenson wrote:
If I was being charitable I would say poorly educated and deliberately wound up.
JustTryingToGetFromAtoB wrote
Presumably the intellectual rigour and discipline required to drive a truck are so far away from that of an epidemiologician that to recycle a great American lyric they have ‘made them an offer that they can’t understand ‘.
Science and Medicine are fact based, evidenced at scale, and fiercely peer reviewed, not based on feelings or political advantage. So public health based on science is not taking away freedom rather supporting the freedom to live a healthy life.
But hey this is ‘Merica so of course you are free to hold up the highway and pollute with your diesel exhaust…
Sounds like more of the same
Sounds like more of the same sanctimonious sneering from the elites, the likes of Justin Trudeau calling them fringe far right, Nazi’s, etc. Demeaning the working class suddenly becomes ok with them.
The mandates worldwide thrust power into the hands of the few, virtual dictators assuming ‘temporary pandemic’ powers and their health bureaucrats and Big Tech banning anyone who disagrees, with total blind support from those who claim their ownership over ‘the science’. The Canadian truckers were claimed to be about 90% vaccinated, which is an inconvenient truth for the sneering elites. These guys are fighting for freedom for everyone, they are pushing back whether you realise it or not. Mandates have shut people out of society, from jobs, education etc. yet people still cheer this on. All this despite masks and vaccination being virtually worthless against catching or spreading Covid (of course your likelihood of survival is far greater, but when you consider Big Pharma has ensured Governments ban all treatments and call them horse dewormer you have to wonder). The cure is far worse than the disease, when you consider the real pandemic in mental health, extreme concentration of wealth and power, ruination of businesses, etc. The Canadian truckers showed the world we don’t want these elites to continue wrecking our societies.
I wonder if the protests had been on bicycles, whether they would be seen in a different light?
I think the “sanctimonious
I think the “sanctimonious sneering” has far more to do with people who get their scientific and medical knowledge from either FarceBook or YouTube videos. If horse dewormer was at all effective (outside of in vitro experiments) then it would be quickly prescribed, but it simply does not work: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20220321/ivermectin-did-not-reduce-covid-hospitalizations-study-shows
You may be fearful of “big pharma” (and there certainly are conspiracies of people that aim to make money), but it seems there’s a similar conspiracy to weaponise the gullible of the U.S. into a political movement – known as Trumpists. You may think that you’re being extra smart by disbelieving certain narratives, but in fact you’re being manipulated even more than the rest of the population. It’s astonishing to me that people in the U.S. often complain about the obscene profits made by pharmaceutical companies and yet will not vote for healthcare systems that would limit the power of them as they mistakenly think that socialised healthcare is somehow akin to communism and instead pay ridiculous amounts of money for medical insurance.
It’s somewhat misleading to declare that the truckers are “fighting for freedom” when there such huge societal problems in the U.S. such as rampant racism that is endemic. The truckers aren’t putting their lives on the line – they’re sat in cushy seats and allowing “big oil” to propel their death-dealing machines and poison the air. If they were cyclists, then I’d consider that they were far more in touch with their bodies and the environment and likely also dramatically improving their mental health.
You’re not very aware if you
You’re not very aware if you think people can get (insert sarcasm here) “scientific or medical knowledge” from FB or Insta or even Twitter. Big Tech bans anything they don’t like, describing anything off their narrative as “disinformation”. When was the last time you saw anything but government ads on FB? The Big Pharma and way-too-lobbied government line is the only “information” allowed. The Left then steps in with its Cancel Culture to clean up those they don’t like, ie. forcing Spotify to ban Joe Rogan podcasts. The cosy relationship is evidenced by the fact that the Chairman of Reuters (FB’s ‘Fact checker’) is also the Chairman of Pfizer, imagine if there was a similar Tory connection in your country? Maybe then you’d understand and get a little uneasy. It’s not thinking about you’re extra smart.
Truckers are not responsible for the USA’s problems of racism in some parts of society any more than you are for England’s. The idea of socialist healthcare is complicated for a glib line, but many don’t get the choice to really vote for it, let alone see it as communism. You take what your employer gives.
Canada’s truckers did in fact put their lives on the line, when you consider Justin Trudeau’s facism that brought in violent police arrests, seizing bank accounts, hacking and doxing donors, etc. Death dealing machines…?
Roulereo wrote:
You’ve misunderstood me – I’m criticising people that base their ideas from things they’ve heard on FarceBook or YouTube. You’ll notice that when I made a claim about Invermectin being useless, I included a link to a source so that further discussion could move forward rather than turning into a polarised political shit-throwing match.
I can’t remember the last time I saw anything on FB as I closed an account there years ago and try to persuade people to do the same. The Cambridge Analytica scandal certainly showed how much people were manipulated.
You seem happy to throw in dog whistles such as “Cancel Culture” or “The Left”, but you aren’t defining those terms and to be honest, it makes you sound kinda dumb. I don’t know why you would care about whether Spotify carries one podcast versus another – if you want to listen to someone’s ideas, there’s plenty of avenues that don’t involve paying a subscription to Spotify – maybe use a library and gather some in depth knowledge from great thinkers rather than some shallow media savvy personality.
There’s certainly plenty of sleaze going around politicians in this country, so I certainly don’t think that either the Tories or Labour are above letting money influence their policies – just look at the pitiful state of active travel funding here in the UK. (Never mind all the Russian money that the Tories seem to have benefitted from).
Now, I’m not accusing the truckers (who I don’t know) of being the root of racism in the U.S., but there’s certainly been some concerning statements coming from the participants: https://www.tmz.com/2022/03/18/dc-trucker-convoy-leader-tar-and-feather-black-lives-matter-plaza/
Using terms such as ‘tar-and-feather’ is extremely offensive to anyone who’s had distant relations suffer such treatment in the U.S. and vowing to “take back” Black Lives Matter Plaza by removing all the paint from the street certainly sounds like the kind of thing that a racist would say.
To me, it seems like the truckers are a bunch of white republicans that are behaving like spoilt brats. Referring to Justin Trudeau’s “fascism” is telling us that you have no understanding of history and the scale of atrocities committed in the past.
Roulereo wrote:
I certainly do…
Roulereo wrote:
Vaccine efficacy for reducing transmission is valid discussion.
Vaccine efficacy for reducing death and serious illness is evidenced, thereby reducing healthcare needs.
Masks do reduce transmission though the success depends greatly on the circumstances.
I’ve said it before and I’ve said it again, the freedom being “fought” for is to primarily to do what one pleases and fuck everyone else.
Fuck your freedom to not be poisoned by my pollution
Fuck your freedom to not breath my disease
Fuck your freedom to protect your vulnerable loved ones. The odds are I won’t die, so I don’t give a fuck who else dies.
Fuck your access to healthcare cos the bodies are piling up.
These guys don’t speak for my working class freedom
John Stevenson wrote:
I was in no way endorsing their whinges, I was answering HawkinsPeter who asked what they were complaining about rather than your request for legitimate grievances!
Good to see the usual
Good to see the usual empathetic, considerate approach from the mods…
hawkinspeter wrote:
Mind you, we’ve had our own Prime Minister saying that resisting an invasion by a hostile country is just the same as voting in favour of Brexit, cos ‘freedom’, so the US clearly doesn’t have a monopoly on stupidity…
brooksby wrote:
Where are we with the MET investigation into his parties? So many people lost loved ones and were unable to visit them in their last days due to covid rules that Johnson appeared to have just ignored as and when he wanted to. It’s a disgrace that anyone would consider supporting him and his party when he has displayed that level of callousness and selfishness, let alone his complete disregard for honesty and probity.
hawkinspeter wrote:
I wondered that myself – apparently MPs who’d put in letters of no confidence over Partygate are all withdrawing them now, as they think that ‘standing on the edge of WW3’ is not a good time to be holding a leadership campaign.
(Because, obviously, we want Johnson as prime minister if we ever went to war…)
I just finished a book called ‘Failures of State’, by the Times journalists who broke the ‘Johnson didn’t bother to go to the Cobra meetings in early 2020 because he was busy sorting out his private life’ story. It’s basically looking at how badly our Govt handled the outbreak of Covid.
;tldr = “Badly. Very badly.”
Full of the sort of details I suspect will just be quietly filtered away before any official inquiry ever comes to pass.
At least Johnson is holding
At least Boris is holding an inquiry.
Here’s in the People’s Republic of Wales our Glorious Leader had decided that no such enquiry is necessary.
brooksby wrote:
Coincidentally, just spotted this:
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1505940859585507329
BREAKING: The Met Police have issued a statement saying they have now started interviewing “key witnesses” in the Partygate inquiry. This is in addition to 100 questionnaires already sent out.
So people rights to vote,
So people rights to vote, peoples rights to be gay, peoples rights to transition, peoples rights to say the whole American system seems to be a bit racist still, peoples rights to have an abortion, peoples rights not to be shot in school?
Seems there are hypocrits on both sides. However it does seem the rights which literally only affect a single person gets roughshod in Right wing states, but the rights like taking medicine or measures to reduce the risk of a highly contagious disease, ie not just looking after your own person but also the anyone else you meet is just that step too far. Too much like communism?
Also, I don’t know if you are American or not, but please read the 1st Amendment, you know the one about Free Speech. All it states is the Government and their agencies can’t stop Free speech with any law etc. Doesn’t state anything about private companies. Maybe the US should nationalise Facebook, Twitter etc so they then can’t ban anyone? Still capitalism has left these massive Tech Giants to form, purchase lawyers to fight anything which might regulate them and pretty much own information to do with as they want. And no, I’m not happy about that either.
So which state do you live in
So which state do you live in? In the one where I live, it’s legal to vote. It’s legal to be gay. It’s so legal to transition people were doing it before it became a thing. It’s legal to have an abortion.
Probably, it is still a bit racist and sexist, but that’s because everyone in the world is a bit racist and sexist. I try not to be, but I must confess a pretty woman will still sometimes cause me to take a second look, but not so for a pretty man.
And I have no idea what being shot in school has to do with your observations. School shootings are rare events in America.
Or do you live in the UK where apparently there is no right to avoid being knifed on the way to school. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-57440598
School shootings rare?
School shootings rare?
And I suppose it is knowing that there has been several mass shootings because of the “rights” to carry guns, an 18 century law in place in case the Brits invaded and when all guns were single shot but is now used as a line not to be crossed by either side. Because Rights.
And it sounds like you are lucky enough not to be living in Texas or Florida, or anyone of the many Right controlled states that have passed laws against Abortions, discussing racism in schools, or to bring someone water if in a line to vote. I mean WTF does the a democracy have areas where there are 10 hour lines to vote? Or a rule stating all votes cast on the day must be tabulated within 24 hours.
AlsoSomniloquism wrote:
Indeed…. No matter how you look at it…. the US has more school shootings each year than the vast majority of the other first world countries have had in the past two decades.
Yes the conservative States are the worst for hipocrisy. They consistently fought against covid mask and vaccine mandates because apparently it is their body so they should have a choice about such things, but women are not allowed the choice to have an abortion.
TriTaxMan wrote:
Way off topic now but:
Ah… but that’s clearly because the state is meddling once again and there are not enough guns in schools – or society. (Because we need “good guys with guns” – for schools I think this mostly derives from the “rapid force needed to stop an active shooter” idea). I believe the proposal is that teachers be armed and trained (3 days) to use lethal force in case.
Certainly puts the “smacking ban” controversy in perspective.
TriTaxMan wrote:
Flip that around and you can see the hypocrisy cuts both ways.
SNL did a pretty good sketch about it, was called ‘Guess if I’m Republican’ or something like that. Worth a look.
Rich_cb wrote:
— Rich_cb Flip that around and you can see the hypocrisy cuts both ways. SNL did a pretty good sketch about it, was called ‘Guess if I’m Republican’ or something like that. Worth a look.— TriTaxMan
What’s concerning about some of the republican views is that they are fighting against public health measures. Having legalised abortions is very much a public health issue (I did see some rumour that a state was looking to make even ectopic pregnancy terminations illegal which just seems insane to me if true) and imposing measures to prevent disease spread is also very much a public health issue.
There’s other examples where restrictions on corporations polluting have now been much reduced under the republicans which again seems far more about hurting public health in the pursuit of profits than actual freedoms.
Edit: Found an article referring to the ectopic pregnancy issue: https://www.today.com/parents/moms/ectopic-pregnancies-missouri-bill-rcna19683
Whilst I agree that both
Whilst I agree that both areas represent public health policy you can’t ignore that they both also fall squarely under the bodily autonomy/personal freedom umbrella.
Personally I support the freedom of choice in both areas.
At the start of the pandemic I think strict public health measures to the detriment of personal freedoms were probably justified but I don’t think that is the case in the UK/US any longer.
Rich_cb wrote:
Well yes, but there’s a huge gulf between being forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy (which invariably leads to back-street abortions) and being asked to wear a mask in certain areas. Whether or not a mask is particularly effective at controlling spread is an interesting question and we could do with more information on that, although it seems a minor inconvenience to most people. Mandating vaccinations is clearly a minefield and I’m somewhat undecided about whether that is something that is required (I’ve had all my jabs and booster).
One thing that I felt was a wrong move was when organisations (pubs, clubs, airlines etc) were going to use a vaccination card as a proxy for determining if someone was infectious or not. That is a clear mis-use of the vaccination records and just led to some people forging vaccination cards. It also had the potential to marginalise people with compromised immune systems that are unable to have vaccinations.
One curiousity of the U.S. is that despite cries of bodily autonomy, they have remarkably high level of circumcisions (over 50% back in 2006 according to http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/).
I think you’re right that
I think you’re right that masks are an inconvenience at best. That said it is still a restriction of personal freedom and one that doesn’t seem to deliver much in the way of benefit with the latest variants. It’s also the most visible sign of the restrictions in place, that’s probably why they are such a contentious issue.
Vaccinations are a reasonable proxy IMO, a number of people will die from vaccination and whilst that risk is very small once the state starts mandating vaccination or imposing significant restrictions on the unvaccinated then it can be considered an absolute violation of bodily and personal autonomy.
You mean like this?
You mean like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAHJCPoWCC8
(I’m not aware of anyone up in arms about fluoridation of the water any more – Update: Wikipedia suggests people are still concerned about this.)
On the flip side once laws are there it is very common that they continue to be used and beyond their original remit. Example being the misuse of anti-terrorism laws in the UK.
Rich_cb wrote:
I can’t get behind the argument that wearing masks is an affront to personal freedom (although technically it is a restriction) as there’s plenty of similar restrictions throughout society. Plenty of shops will refuse service if customers aren’t wearing shirts (or indeed trousers) and that is hardly related to public health, but merely an invented convention. Similarly, banks and post offices don’t like people to wander in wearing motorcycle helmets (or even the innocent wearing of tights over your face) and yet there’s no similar call for ‘freedom’ when people face those restrictions.
I think you misinterpreted my use of the word proxy – I intended to compare the use of vaccination cards to the state of being virus free which aren’t strongly correlated. However, I think the risks of covid vaccination are often over-stated in arguments and people encounter similar low-risk hazards every time they step outside and cross the road, or eat a prepared bagged salad from a supermarket. But, I do agree with you that mandatory covid vaccinations is a step too far – the long term benefit is inconclusive, so it’s pretty much a shot in the dark (or arm).
However, we do accept vaccination of children as a matter of course and such programs have been very successful, so I’m inclined to think that a lot of the arguments against covid vaccinations are disingenuous or at least misinformed (I’m not including your arguments in that group, however).
hawkinspeter wrote:
IIRC one of their congressman said that if a doctor didn’t re-implant that ectopic pregnancy right back where it was supposed to be then they’d be liable for charges for abortion or murder or something.
Shortly after that, someone pointed out that the technology and procedures to do that do not exist, and that they felt perhaps he’d misunderstood what an ectopic pregnancy actually was…
hawkinspeter]
Abortion ban modeled on Texas law advances in Tennessee
Bill allows anyone – even relatives of rapists – to sue abortion providers and empowers investigators to question any woman who loses a pregnancy
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/21/abortion-ban-texas-advances-tennessee
brooksby wrote:
Well, at least that takes the sting out of the inevitable collapse of late-stage capitalism and global environmental catastrophe.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Late stage capitalism… making £10k a pop when the girl your husband/son/brother etc raped aborts the pregnancy resulting from the rape.
And that’s not my rabid feminist hysteria*, that fuckwits bringing the bill have confirmed it.
*pun intended
Rich_cb wrote:
— Rich_cb Flip that around and you can see the hypocrisy cuts both ways. SNL did a pretty good sketch about it, was called ‘Guess if I’m Republican’ or something like that. Worth a look.— TriTaxMan
I will admit that is also one way to look at the situation. But in reality it is far more nuanced than that.
Vaccine and mask mandates…. there were always exceptions for those who have valid reasons for not wearing a mask or for having the vaccine. And they were considered for the good of the entire population
Last time I checked one of the biggest criticisms is that for the anti-abortion laws (in Texas particularly) there are no exceptions…. if a woman has been subject to a sexual assault…. it’s illegal to have an abortion, if a woman has a condition which puts their life at risk if they were to carry the child to term…. its illegal to have an abortion.
Once you invoke ‘the greater
Once you invoke ‘the greater good’ you’re always in a tricky situation.
There will be many people in the US who argue that an abortion ban is good for society as a whole even if it leads to significant harm for individuals.
The same argument is used in favour of mandatory vaccination.
Your viewpoint on either will depend on how much weight you place on the respective harms and benefits.
Rich_cb wrote:
From my perspective however there is a serious mismatch in the two arguments.
The majority of individuals who are Anti-covid regulations….they don’t want to be subject to the regulations because it is their body…..
The majority of individuals who are Anti-Abortion…… they want the regulations to be enforced because the don’t like the principal of something happening to someone elses body. Survey’s estimate that only 40% women in Texas were in favour of the ban on abortions…. yet somehow men (the majority of whom supported the ban) were ultimately the ones that made the decision on something that would never affect them.
If you flip the perspective
If you flip the perspective again:
Those in favour of COVID restrictions (eg mandatory vaccination) want the regulations to be enforced because the don’t like the principle of something happening to someone else’s body.
Those against Abortion restrictions want people to be free to decide what to do with their own bodies and, in the case of pro-choice women, don’t want to be subject to the regulations because it is their body.
The issue of gender does complicate the Abortion argument somewhat as obviously women are directly affected by the legislation far more than men but the basic principles above do still apply.
Rich_cb wrote:
If you just look solely at vaccines we can come to the crux of the matter…… some people value their rights more than their responsibilities in a civilised society. Their right not to take a vaccine outweighs their responsibility to others. As has been proved the vaccine has broken the link between infection and serious illness/death in relation to covid.
But the big difference is that rights and responsibilities in relation to Abortions are in general in sync with each other. The only people impacted by having or not having an abortion in general is the woman involved. I’ve never heard of any third parties life being put at risk during an abortion.
Which kind of leads back to your previous point of “There will be many people in the US who argue that an abortion ban is good for society as a whole even if it leads to significant harm for individuals.”….. I would openly challenge anyone to provide any tangible benefit in support of that theory.
TriTaxMan wrote:
Au contraire, it is exactly that one (or possibly more) lives are not just put at risk but definitively ended which those who are anti are objecting to. (I ain’t one of them, just that’s very definitely the way they say they see it. Yes, I know we all then go into “what’s meant by human life?” after that and I do not wish to bring this upon this gentle forum…)
This is where it’s vital to
This is where it’s vital to understand the other side’s perspective.
From a religious anti abortion perspective (and I must stress once more this is not my perspective) human life begins at conception.
Any deliberate ending of human life is murder.
Each abortion is therefore a murder.
From that perspective if you stopped all abortions you’d massively reduce the murder rate. As a consequence the harm caused by stopping abortions would be outweighed by the good of stopping all the murders.
It would be for the ‘Greater Good’.
Vaccines have indeed broken the link between COVID infection and serious illness but that only directly effects the person who chooses whether or no to have the vaccine.
Vaccines don’t appear to have any lasting effect on infections themselves so the argument that society benefits from lower rates of infection appears to be shaky.
Rich_cb wrote:
Unfortunately, for the vast majority claiming they are stopping murder, they could just given men the snip until such time they can consensually bring a life into the world. No sperm, no conception, no “murder”. And reversible… unlike an ectopic pregnancy that some of these fuckwits tried to legislate against.
They’ll never go for it which is why I call bullshit on these stated beliefs.
JustTryingToGetFromAtoB wrote
Some religions frown on birth control, so that may not be a viable solution.
Personally, I find it extremely distasteful that people try to encode specific religious beliefs into law though maybe that’s my atheism talking.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Some religions frown on birth control, so that may not be a viable solution.
Personally, I find it extremely distasteful that people try to encode specific religious beliefs into law though maybe that’s my atheism talking.— JustTryingToGetFromAtoB
I completely agree, I was trying to show the logic employed just doesn’t work.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Some religions frown on birth control, so that may not be a viable solution.
Personally, I find it extremely distasteful that people try to encode specific religious beliefs into law though maybe that’s my atheism talking.— JustTryingToGetFromAtoB
How else do you ensure you have a guaranteed following. Reject birth control, reject abortion and make sex about procreation. In its extreme you end up with a family like the Duggers in the USA of 19 kids and counting fame, who used that fame to influence legislation and tear down the rights designed to protect the LGBTQ+ community. I have come across some Catholics in the UK with a similar mindset. The irony is it is the likes of these who cry the most about cancel culture.
Rich_cb wrote:
The trouble is, as a sweeping assumption, the individuals advocating enforced birth have virtually zero knowledge of biology. It would be funny if it wasn’t so horrific that legislators signing in ‘six week’ legislation have know idea that the six week clock starts a couple of weeks before conception. Of course, zero knowledge us baked in, the same people advocating enforced birth are the same advocating that reproductive health is removed from schools curriculums. And you can’t have a sensible conversation about false equivalence regarding abortion/masks/vaxwhen ignorance is baked into the process.
Generally speaking, I find the loudest proponents of freedom are far more vocal on thier own freedom to do something than they are on the freedom of other to be free of the thing they want to do.
On a more cheerful note, who knows the motivations or political leaning of the lone cyclist. But it is amusing.
I have very little time for
I have very little time for most anti-abortionists but, as with all viewpoints, I do try to empathise with their perspective.
If you are devoutly religious, genuinely believe that life begins at conception and that the 5th commandment therefore applies, then I can see why you’d be vehemently opposed to abortion.
I’m not in any way religious but that perspective does at least make sense to me. I don’t, however, believe that most anti-abortionists are genuinely that devout.
There is a lot of ignorance in society in general.
Most of those in favour of vaccine passports (in my experience) have no idea that the efficacy of a double vaccination (on infection) is pretty much zero after 6 months.
I’m very much in favour of this cyclists actions, a nice peaceful protest. From that (very short) clip it does appear that the truck drivers were behaving safely which is also good to seen
Rich_cb wrote:
Likewise, I can have some sympathy with the religious belief but can’t reconcile enforcing the religious belief on others to their harm. And let’s be clear, birth causes harm.
A good rule of thumb is whether the proponent of enforced birth gives a shit about life once exit occurs from the birth canel. If not, I think we can probably conclude it’s a form of control and nothing to do with every sperm being sacred etc etc.
That is an excellent rule of
That is an excellent rule of thumb.
Contrasting politicians’ voting records on abortion and early years education is always enlightening.
Rich_cb wrote:
Isn’t improving the greater good the main reason for society and very much the whole basis for humans living in groups?
It is.
It is.
However, most benefits of that result from changes that are beneficial for all.
For example, ‘shall we spend public money building a sewer so that our town doesn’t smell as bad and fewer of us die of cholera?’.
Rather than, ‘Shall we sacrifice a few people’s lives in the hope that it will improve the lives of those of us still breathing?’
Both are ‘For the greater good’, one is much harder to justify.
Rich_cb wrote:
You just reminded me of this interesting philosphical game: https://www.philosophyexperiments.com/fatman/Default.aspx
It’s interesting that people are much more likely to subscribe to a policy that may end up resulting in people’s deaths than they are to a policy that will directly kill some people (even if it’s a smaller number of people).
hawkinspeter wrote:
You just reminded me of this interesting philosphical game: https://www.philosophyexperiments.com/fatman/Default.aspx
It’s interesting that people are much more likely to subscribe to a policy that may end up resulting in people’s deaths than they are to a policy that will directly kill some people (even if it’s a smaller number of people).— Rich_cb
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or of the one.
I heard that somewhere; can’t remember where… 😉
That was interesting.
That was interesting.
I did a lot better, in terms of consistency, on the trolley problem than the backpacker one.
Rich_cb wrote:
It’s a while since I did it – I remember disagreeing about the efficacy of information gained through torture, but that’s not really the point of it.
Anyhow, here’s the ultimate trolley problem
Are we talking about the
Are we talking about the original Sisyphus, or the one that was created in the transporter accident?
mdavidford wrote:
I thought there was an infinite number (though countable) of Sisyphuses (Sisyphusi?) created in that incident – they’re all on the 1st floor of Hilbert’s hotel.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Well, anyway, I think a more pertinent question is – could a butterfly have dreamed all this?
mdavidford wrote:
A butterfly once dreamt that it was me.
I imagine Sisyphus is happy.
I imagine Sisyphus is happy.
A change is as good as a rest and all that.
The last time I checked the
The last time I checked the statistics, teenagers were on average 4x as likely to be murdered in the US as in the UK.
Roulereo wrote:
I can’t help wondering what evidence you have that the cyclist is left wing? If, as I suspect, you don’t have any, then your entire diatribe is pointless; but I think everyone has already worked that out.
Oh, and “hypocrites” has a “e” in it.
Sure it’s an assumption that
Sure it’s an assumption that the Cyclist is Left wing (as he is trying to block a non Left wing protest), but if it smells like it, looks like it, etc….
Condescending has an “e” in it too, how about that?
Roulereo wrote:
Actually if you look carefully it has two Es.
Maybe the first “e” caused
Maybe the first “e” caused his vision to get a bit fuzzy…
Roulereo wrote:
It is also very possible that the cyclist did not want to see the harassment and noise pollution that blighted Ottowa to overtake a city they lived in. It is also very possible that the cyclist is a vaccinated truck driver (like the 90% Canadian truck drivers that are vaccinated) who does not want the actions of a vocal minority to draw attention away from the real issues of low pay and safety that really affect them.
https://theconversation.com/canadian-trucker-protests-show-how-the-loudest-voices-in-the-room-distort-democracy-177022
Nope, hypocrisy is beholden
Nope, hypocrisy is beholden to no political philosophy. It’s as warm and comfortable on one side as the other. Still if you can’t take comfort from someone standing up for their beliefs in a peaceful and persuasive manner you’re no friend of freedom however much you assert to the contrary. There’s a word for that, hmmm…whatever could it be?
Interesting take, that he is
Interesting take, that he is somehow standing up for his freedoms (whatever they are), but clearly he is seeking to deny others theirs.
I would take comfort in him standing up for his beliefs, if he was, say a vaccinated truck driver in disguise (that was very funny, @stomec albeit unintentional). But he’s just an unpaid patsy lining up with the elites, Klaus Schwab and the Big Tech bosses, the cancel culture, the “Hunter Biden’s Laptop is a lie” media etc. They’re the ones sneering at working class people to “f… off”.
No amount of links to waffling left wing rags will help that argument either.
Roulereo wrote:
The truckers are standing up for freedom but anyone who exercises their freedom to disrupt their demonstration for their freedom shouldn’t have the freedom to exercise their freedom!
“You’re free to agree with me” seems to be your take on freedom.
Left wing links? There were
Left wing links? There were none. You should get down to Specsavers.
Roulereo wrote:
How do you know he was an “unpaid patsy lining up with the elites”? Is this secret intel from JFK Jnr?
What links to waffling left wing rags are you talking about?
On the flipside everyone who
On the flipside everyone who disagrees with your world view is an elite on the left yadyadayada, and anyone calling out YouTube researchers advocating driking piss and taking horse dewormer are trying to “cancel” people.
Vaccines work, masks are effective to a degree, social distancing and lockdowns were a blunt tool as we enetered the uknown with hospitals filling and people dying. I was lucky, I didn’t lose anyone close to me, I know people who did and I have a family member who makes coffins, lets just say they did a lot of businsess!
It was ironic that at the point goverment were easing restrictions and I was largely going about my life normally, mass protests abounded, pepole gathering in large numbers risking undoing what had been achived. But yes it is people like myself who give a damn about the vulnerable, the immunocompromised who cannot take the vaccine, that are the bad ones. The leftists blah blah blah.
You haven’t got a clue about free speech and rights. Your like don’t give a damn about the rights of the vulnerable in society, and protecting them from disease, you lack empathy.