“How is this allowed?” Chloé Dygert’s “I stand for the truth. I stand with Charlie Kirk” bike sticker at world championships divides opinion; Bizarre urban planning clip shows 11 cyclists ‘killed’ by drivers; Worlds TTT relay drama + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
“Good to see this being treated with the contempt it deserves”
Looks like this ‘Cyclists Dismount’ sign, located in the middle of the cycle lane on Glasgow’s Byres Road, hasn’t gone down too well with the city’s cycling community:
Glasgow Cyclists 1-0 ‘Cyclists Dismount’ signs.
Or maybe someone’s rim brakes just weren’t working too well, and they were taken by surprise? I’m 50-50 on this one…
Why don’t cyclists use the cycle lane? #15,902
Now, here’s a real contender for this year’s coveted ‘World’s Most Pointless Cycle Lane’ awards, courtesy of Mardyke Walk in Cork:
Mardyke Walk cycle lane
— Conn Donovan (@conndonovan.bsky.social) September 24, 2025 at 8:12 AM
‘A faded patch of paint work for about half a metre that abruptly sends you straight into the kerb? Job’s a good ‘un, I say. Now, what’s for lunch?’
“Another summit to strive for”: Should Remco Evenepoel now set his sights on the Hour Record? His dad thinks so… At least eventually, anyway
It’s safe to say Remco Evenepoel is currently the greatest time trialist on the planet.
When it comes to racing against the clock, the Belgian has won everything there is to win on the road. He’s won time trial three rainbow jerseys on the bounce, an Olympic gold medal in the discipline, a European title, and two time trial victories at the Tour de France and Giro d’Italia apiece.
And on Sunday, the 25-year-old underlined his TT supremacy by decimating the opposition on the way to his third straight world championship success in Kigali, beating Jay Vine by 1.14 and everyone else by over two and a half minutes – including Tadej Pogačar.
The Slovenian superstar was even caught by Evenepoel on the course’s final cobbled climb, his 2.30 head start evaporated, sending the cycling world into a frenzy.
Alex Whitehead/SWpix.com
However, there’s one solo achievement still missing from Evenepoel’s impressive collection: the Hour Record.
Arguably cycling’s most iconic and prestigious timed feat, the Hour is currently held by Filippo Ganna – the man Evenepoel has usurped as the sport’s best time trialist – who completed 56.792km during his 60 minutes in the spotlight back in 2022.
And, speaking to Sudinfo after Sunday’s win, Evenepoel’s father Patrick said the Hour is something they’ll think about pursuing – when the time is right.
“We haven’t talked about it directly yet, but I think it might interest him one day. It’s typically the kind of challenge he would enjoy,” said Patrick Evenepoel.
“For him, it doesn’t require half-hearted preparation: he knows it’s yet another discipline, but he has the specific qualities to succeed in it. It’s a goal that will come in due time, after the other major events of his career.
“The time trial remains his speciality, and if he’s already aiming for a quadruple world title, the Hour Record could be another summit to strive for.”
Zac Williams/SWpix.com
Evenepoel Jnr has also discussed the prospect of an Hour attempt in recent months, after responding to Eddy Merckx’s claim that his Belgian successor should give one of cycling’s toughest challenges a crack.
“Yes, I will do it, but it will take a few more years. I think there is a way to beat it,” Remco told L’Équipe earlier this summer.
So, you’re saying there’s a chance…
Team tasked with delivering 2027 Tour de France’s British Grands Départs confirmed, as chair aims to “unite and inspire people right across the country”
The countdown to the Tour de France’s visit to Britain in 2027 is well and truly on, after the team tasked with delivering the Grands Départs was confirmed this morning.
In March, it was announced that the opening stages of both the men’s and women’s editions of cycling’s biggest race will be held in Britain in 2027, in a historic first for the sport. Edinburgh will host the Grand Départ of the Tour Hommes, the third time that the race has started in the UK, after London in 2007 and the 2014 start in Yorkshire.
The Grand Départ will also visit England and Wales after leaving Scotland, with three stages apiece for the men’s and women’s Tours. The opening stage of the Tour Femmes has not yet been revealed, however, with more details expected to be revealed in the next month or so.
Allan McKenzie/SWpix.com
And to sort out these details, it was announced today that a special group, ‘Grand Départ GB 2027’, has been established to oversee the delivery of the events and manage public funding on behalf of the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, the Scottish and Welsh governments, and UK Sport.
The group is a joint venture between British Cycling and UKEL, a new, independent, not-for-profit events hosting company set up to “help ensure that delivery of major sporting events in the UK is fit for the future” and to “safeguard and enhance the UK’s ability to secure and deliver global events”.
Chris Brindley, the current chair of the Northern Ireland Football League (or the Irish League as it’s more commonly known) who also managed England’s hosting of the 2021 Rugby League World Cup, has been appointed acting chair of the Grand Départ GB 2027 board.
He will work alongside Paul Williamson, a non-executive director at British Cycling Events who worked on the 2019 Yorkshire worlds, Wimbledon Operations Director Michelle Dite, BBC partnerships director Tove Okunniwa, and Frank Slevin, who was appointed British Cycling’s first independent chair in 2018.
Pauline Ballet/SWpix.com
“Today marks a significant milestone in the delivery of the Grand Départ of both the Tour de France and Tour de France Femmes, Avec Zwift in 2027,” Brindley said in a statement today.
“I am delighted that we have such a strong and experienced team in place to drive forward this historic and unique event which has such huge potential to unite and inspire people right across the country.
“Today also heralds a new era for event delivery in the UK with the establishment of UKEL Ltd which will be critical to enabling major sporting events to be held in the UK over the coming years and, crucially, will ensure those events deliver a more extensive positive impact on UK communities.”
Maybe not the most exciting news, but at least it indicates there’s some exciting times ahead…
“Our expectation is that the team will evolve towards a new name that excludes the term Israel, and that it will adopt a new identity and brand image”
Looks like the pressure is continuing to mount on Sylvan Adams and Israel-Premier Tech, with Premier Tech itself joining bike supplier Factor in calling for the team to disassociate itself with Israel, the Canadian company describing the controversy swirling around the squad as counterproductive to their “goal” of developing cycling in Canada.
With his title sponsor eyeing up the exit door, how much longer can Adams bury his head in the sand when it comes to his team’s identity and branding? Because in pro cycling after all, money doesn’t talk, it swears…
Read more: > “The name of the team is no longer sustainable”: Israel-Premier Tech’s title sponsor joins calls for team to drop ‘Israel’ from identity and brand image
“It’s incredible!” Mark Cavendish being heart-warmingly enthusiastic about the sport he’s watching, #18
Is there a more positive sight in the world than that of the Manx Missile absolutely loving life at a random sporting event?
This week’s edition of ‘Cav’s retirement adventures’ comes from the weekend’s Ironman world champs in Nice:
Is this the “future of cycling gear”?
> Modular carbon storage system hopes to replace “clunky saddlebags” with £150 “aerodynamic capsule” featuring 300-lumen brake-sensing rear light
Small but perfectly formed? GB to focus on just time trialling at next week’s European Championships, as Ethan Hayter, Josh Tarling, and Anna Henderson comprise slimmed-down three-rider squad
Great Britain’s pared back approach to selecting squads for major events looks set to continue next week, with just three riders – all time trialists – picked for the European championships in France.
And after picking only one rider, Anna Henderson, to compete in the elite time trials at the world championships in Rwanda, GB have now opted for the TT-only method at the Euros.
Thomas Maheux/SWpix.com
Henderson, fresh from her eighth place in Kigali, will return next Wednesday to battle for the European title. The Olympic silver medallist, who also finished second at the 2023 European championships in the time trial, will be GB’s only female representative in Drôme-Ardèche.
The Lidl-Trek rider will be joined in Britain’s tiny team by former European TT champion Josh Tarling, who only retuned to racing last week in Wallonie following his crash at the Giro – the scene of his maiden grand tour stage win – in May.
Ethan Hayter will make it two for GB in the elite men’s time trial, marking his first appearance on the road in national colours since his fourth place at the 2022 world championships.
Alex Broadway/SWpix.com
“With the Euros falling so closely on from the world championships this year, we will be focusing our efforts on the time trial events specifically and are pleased we’re able to field three strong contenders across the elite categories,” GB performance director Stephen Park said today.
“All three have proven results in the discipline, with one Olympic, three world, and two European medals between them and I look forward to seeing how they take on the course and the rest of the field at this event.”
‘Oi Ben, I think I’ve found us another domestique for Sunday…’
One of the wonderful aspects of this year’s world championships in Rwanda – and the beauty of cycling in general – has been seeing the locals join in the fun ride, by nipping alongside some of the sport’s biggest names during their training rides.
Since Tadej Pogačar was dropped by some eager (and very fast) locals – in trainers, on an old, presumably very heavy bike – earlier this week, Ireland’s Darren Rafferty has been on the lookout for some untapped Rwandan talent.
And one rider, who briefly joined Rafferty, Ben Healy, and Ryan Mullen on a training ride yesterday – carrying a lot more than a spare bidon on his bike, that’s for sure – looks like he fits the bill:
Where’s Jack Charlton when you need him?
‘Your granny once drank a pint of Guinness? Don’t worry son, that’s good enough for us, here’s your
Well, that’s one way to transport a BMX, I suppose…
If you thought Mathieu van der Poel’s new Lamborghini SUV was the least climate-friendly cycling collaboration of the week, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
This week, BMX freestyle legend Bob Haro is making his way across Europe in his own very fancy Lambo… with his bike safely attached to the roof.
That’s because Haro’s Team IKONIX, named after his bike brand, is currently taking on the Gumball 3000, a celebrity rally linking Istanbul and Ibiza, which takes place on public roads and features an array of, and I quote, “international superstars and supercars”.
Apparently, Haro and IKONIX are taking part to promote “BMX heritage” or something like that.
I imagine MVDP is currently on the phone to Lamborghini right now, complaining he drew the short straw…
The Reusser curse strikes again! Marlen mechanical hampers flying Swiss squad during mixed relay
Marlen Reusser’s maiden world time trial title on Sunday banished more than a few demons, two years on from the mixed relay crash which scuppered her rainbow hopes in Scotland.
But, as today’s mixed relay team time trial in Kigali has proven, the Swiss rider’s redemptive victory doesn’t mean her run of bad luck is over, unfortunately.
With Switzerland within touching distance, in third, at the relay point after a solid effort by the men, the flying Reusser powered her team to the top of the standings – only to be beset by yet another ill-timed mechanical.
Reusser lost around 25 seconds as she changed bikes, with teammates Jasmin Liechti and Noemi Rüegg forced to press on as their team leader was dramatically brought to a halt.
Reusser then wasn’t happy with the bike she swapped to, and looks to have changed once again. Could Swiss hopes be dashed once again?
Hold on a second, it looks like Marlen’s on her way back…
Drama in Kigali as Australia pip France to secure second straight Mixed Relay TTT victory, as Reusser mechanical means Swiss forced to settle for bronze
Drama, pure drama.
The world championship mixed relay team time trial may not have the prestige or history of the other rainbow jersey races this week, but you can’t say it’s not entertaining.
And on Kigali’s desperately tough TT course – a hill-heavy route made worse by the requirement to ride as a team, especially on that last cobbled climb – Australia pipped France by just five seconds to take their second consecutive TTT title.
Chris Auld/SWpix.com
The Aussies got off to a flying start, the men’s team, consisting of Jay Vine, Luke Plapp, and Michael Matthews, setting the fastest time at the relay point, 12 seconds ahead of France’s Bruno Amirail, Paul Seixas, and Pavel Sivakov.
Everything was turned on its head at the start of the women’s leg, however, as Marlen Reusser drove Switzerland into pole position, overturning a 34-second deficit to go three seconds up on Australia at the first time check.
But then an untimely mechanical for Reusser scuppered Swiss hopes, and swung the pendulum back in Australia’s favour. The newly crowned world time trial champion managed, miraculously, to get back on and resume driving the pace, closing the gap on their rivals once again.
Zac Williams/SWpix.com
But the damage was done. The Swiss managed to set the fastest time as they crossed the line, but that was swiftly undone by the French trio of Cédrine Kerbaol, Juliette Labous, and Maeva Squiban, who put 13 seconds into Reusser and co.
And then it was all down to the Aussies. With Felicity Wilson-Haffenden already dropped, Brodie Chapman and Amanda Spratt toiled up that steep, final stretch of cobbles, Spratt dangling off the back as Chapman forged on as the road smoothed and flattened.
As Matthews, Plapp, and Vine watched on, Chapman and Brodie made it – with five seconds to spare, sparking Aussie delirium.
Simon Wilkinson/SWpix.com
Who says nobody cares about the mixed relay? That was great.
Granted, I’ll not be able to tell you this time next year who won, but still. It’s entertainment, right?
“Just a normal day out in the Buckinghamshire countryside”
> Near Miss of the Day 938: Recumbent cyclist squeezed by SUV driver passing into path of oncoming car
“The driver didn’t stop, it’s just like real life!” Developer’s road ‘modernisation’ plan video shows 11 cyclists hit by motorists in two minutes, as baffled riders say: “We can’t even be safe on animated roads!”
Let’s kick today’s live blog off with a game. Imagine you’re a highway engineer. How can you tell that your designs for the big new project you’ve been working on just aren’t up to scratch?
Probably when the two-minute-long animated video you put together to illustrate your plans features about a dozen cyclist and pedestrian deaths, right? Right?
Staggeringly, that’s the dilemma currently facing Autostrada, the Ukrainian road construction firm tasked with overhauling and “modernising” a busy overpass near Chernihivska Metro Station in the east of Kyiv.
And I know the people of Ukraine have plenty of other things on their minds at the moment, but these plans truly are a sight to behold.
According to Autostrada’s rendering, the planned overpass – which will expand the current six lane road to eight lanes, which connect to a six lane-wide motorway (how fun) – includes, helpfully, some protected cycling infrastructure, so people on bikes can access the metro. I know, a novel concept.
However, while you could classify the new bike lanes themselves as ‘safe’, the rest of it… I’m not so sure.
Because, as you can see in the render, if these plans are given the green light, cyclists will be forced to cross the slip road entering and exiting the overpass – with only a lick of red paint to protect them, thanks to the junction’s ‘continuous flow’ layout.
It’s going to be carnage – especially if the developer’s own render is to be believed. Because, believe it or not, Autostrada’s own animated imagining of how their junction will work features motorists simply driving straight through cyclists using the ‘bike lane’ crossings, as well as into pedestrians and each other.
So, it’s extremely realistic, then.
Since being published earlier this week (and conspicuously deleted from YouTube), the video has attracted quite a bit of attention on social media, including on the Kyiv Transport Community Facebook group, where the project was branded “complete shit” and a “primitive solution” to the area’s traffic problems.
And over on Reddit, one user asked: “How many cyclist deaths can you spot in just two minutes of animation?”
Alexander helpfully spotted 11 – yes, 11 – instances of motorists hitting (or at least driving through) cyclists at the junction, including this gruesome close-up shot at 26 seconds:
“There was also at least one pedestrian that got taken out,” noted sculltt.
“Glad to see they keep the real world in mind with their plans,” added another Reddit user.
“It’s just mimicking real life. In my experience, slip lanes are the #1 place where drivers violate pedestrian/cyclist right of way,” said Bla.
“Yes, they are absolutely terrifying and suicidal for pedestrians and cyclist, no matter what they paint on the road,” replied TheJiral. “Even with traffic lights for pedestrians they are scary and then the green phases will be ages apart for pedestrians.”
“Looks like a horribly unpleasant place to bike,” added LimtedWard. “Even with the protected infrastructure, who wants to cycle next to a six-lane highway?”
Incredible animation. No notes. [from Reddit]
— Maris Zivarts (@emveezee.bsky.social) September 23, 2025 at 3:58 AM
And, while some were shocked about the unsafe design in general, the real-world accuracy of Autostrada’s render nevertheless earned ‘praise’ from all corners.
“Man, those renders keep getting better and better, we’re close to not being able to see the difference. There are even cars running over cyclists and pedestrians on the exit lane, just like in real life!”
“Kudos to the animators for such and accurate depiction of a totally normal multi-lane highway intersection. Pedestrians being run over, bikes being run over, I saw a truck merge into a couple of cars – but the cars never stop! All looks totally normal. Could be the city I live in.”
“Look how much paint and tickle posts protected the cyclist though!” pointed out Anondson on BlueSky.
“Amazing realism. Driver didn’t even stop,” added Ruby, while Kyle complained: “We can’t even be safe on roads in animation”.
Super safe…
“I mean, they make a great point. Not the one I think they meant, but a point nonetheless,” said Parker, while one Reddit user imagined the conversation that went on in the company’s offices as they fleshed out the render:
“Did you finish making the animation yet?”
“Sure did, boss. Real f***ing murderous just like you asked.”
However, another cyclist had an alternative explanation for one of the most bizarre road plan videos you’ll ever see.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if the animator they hired is a cyclist and wanted to express his disapproval of this crappy design while still doing the job he was hired to do.”
It’s the only explanation, surely…
“How is this allowed?” Chloé Dygert divides opinion (again) after eagle-eyed fans spot “I stand for the truth. I stand with Charlie Kirk” sticker on American’s bike at world championships
For those of you determined to ‘keep politics out of sport’, look away now.
Last night, some eagle-eyed fans, apparently rewatching Sunday’s elite women’s time trial at the world championships, noticed something unusual on Chloé Dygert’s bike. And no, it wasn’t some weird aero gain.
Dygert, a two-time rainbow jersey winner in the discipline, finished ninth in the time trial in Kigali, 2.25 down on Swiss winner Marlen Reusser.
And while her result certainly wasn’t anything to write home about, especially when you consider the American’s lofty TT standards, Dygert made sure she got her message across in a completely different manner.
Chris Auld/SWpix.com
The 28-year-old, whose political views have got her into trouble in the past, decided to use the worlds, and her TT bike, to proclaim her support for Charlie Kirk, the US right-wing activist assassinated in Utah earlier this month.
“I stand for the truth. I stand with Charlie Kirk” – that was the message stuck on the fork of Dygert’s Canyon as she raced in Kigali on Sunday.
And like a lot of things associated with Dygert (and Kirk for that matter), it’s fair to say it’s divided opinion.
“Not surprising, I guess, but still super gross. Definitely makes me super not interested in ever supporting her sponsors,” wrote Jen on BlueSky, while Ronald joked that the “heavy sticker made her get ninth! Sad!”
“Just wondering if the sticker on Dygert’s bike conforms with the whole ‘no politics in sports’ thing,” added NairoInGreen on Twitter, and Alex asked: “How is this allowed?”
Alex Whitehead/SWpix.com
However, not everyone was against Dygert’s decision to air her views mid-TT.
“Surely riders are allowed to express political opinions?” asked Freddie.
“It is bit of a grey area, most sports want the race to be nonpolitical, they can express their views outside the race,” replied Hank.
(According to the UCI’s rules, riders bound by the governing body’s Code of Ethics “shall remain politically neutral”. Try telling that to all those state-owned or sponsored teams, eh?)
Unsurprisingly, given the polarising nature of the discussion, some cycling fans supported Dygert’s latest political offering.
“Pink socks and a competitive troll with totally wild takes: I am in love with Chloé Dygert,” wrote Canard chaud capitaliste.
> Chloe Dygert apology for social media conduct “not sufficient” says Rapha
As noted above, this isn’t the first time that Dygert has come in for criticism for her political views. Back in 2020, the Canyon-SRAM rider apologised for her behaviour on social media, after she was found to have ‘liked’ several inflammatory tweets.
Those tweets included one by right-wing commentator Candace Owens criticising the trans community, one that claimed “white privilege doesn’t exist”, and another that suggested Colin Kaepernick – the NFL player who first knelt during the US national anthem as a protest against racial injustice – had “realised that if he grew an afro and played the part of victim, he could scam the black community out of millions.”
In her apology, the then-23-year-old Dygert said: “Cycling should be for everyone regardless of colour, gender, sexuality or background. Like CANYON//SRAM Racing, I am committed to promoting diversity, inclusion, and equality in cycling and our wider communities.
“I apologise to those who felt offended or hurt by my conduct on social media. I am committed to keep learning and growing as an athlete and a person.”
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@Smoggysteve "Most would happily ride on the roads and be treated with respect by drivers". But people aren't - and as far as I can see they won't be. Not until there is a lot less driving and it's slower around cyclists, and far more people driving have "skin in the game" eg. they sometimes cycle and their friends and family do also. That's what leads to the model - which is perhaps most advanced in NL - where cycling, walking and driving are all seen as separate normal transport modes. Their needs, vulnerabilities and any dangers to others are considered. And *that* leads to "mix / share when possible, separate when necessary". But "possible" is "where your 10-year old would be safe to cycle unsupervised" - so very few motor vehicles, going slow! And AFAICS everybody - even "existing cyclists" - is happy with the result. (I dunno about a few pro cyclists - but don't they tend to have training camps in different counties anyway?)
@quiff as an Edinburgh resident I can confidently say he's speaking without moving his lips in one sense: - while as I noted in a separate comment there *is* now some real separated cycle infra, all the examples i can think of have *at least as much space* for pedestrians. The rest of the "cycle infra" is essentially similar to the situation in the rest of the UK: eg. bus lanes*, cycle lanes and shared use paths (eg. "build" infra by sticking up a sign). Edinburgh is one of the places with a moderately extensive network of former railways which have been converted to "shared use" paths (completely motor traffic few). However though shared they are not narrow by UK standards. And this is all effectively a "free extra" for all non- motorised users, not like the "sign a cycle path" where pedestrians do lose space. I think this all comes from the "popular understanding" of cycling in which ultimately cyclists are the "other". They don't fit "motor vehicle" or "pedestrian" (including wheelchairs on the very rare occasions people think about that). Thus "cyclists are cheating" in multiple ways! They shouldn't get their own space as "there aren't enough" of them. And "they can just use the road / path". But being able to *choose* "on the road" or "on the footway" (shared use path) is clearly unfair - nobody else gets to do that! BUT of course even if they did pick just one of road OR pedestrian space it's still not fair anyway because they're "too slow" for the road (don't pay "road tax" etc...) and "far too fast" for pedestrians... * Though some existing cyclists may appreciate them when there are few buses, buses and bikes are a very poor mix for several reasons.
Whilst a shame for any employees, their bib shorts had the worst chamois pad I’d ever encountered, utter waste of my money. Even though they were Strava challenge discount purchases, still a waste of money.
Thanks, just going to have to suck it up. Got next week off and will take the easy, if expensive option...
@ktache Just go for the TNT Sports only package, £30.99 for a month. Alternatively have you considered experimenting with a VPN for a few pounds, allowing you to sign up for a free stream abroad, e.g. SBS Australia which streams the Tour live? If I didn't have a kind mate's login that's what I'd do!
So, it's now the month of July and I'm going to have to pay to watch the TdF, for one month only. On a tablet unfortunately, as I didn't manage to get a laptop to rig up to the TV, grrr. Just wondering, what package will I have to fork out for? Not wanting to pay for the wrong one...
Not that it sounds like a dealbreaker given the other faults you've identified, but that cable isn't really a "proprietary" cable, four pin magnetic cables like that are quite common on bone-conducting headphones and other devices (my inexpensive smartwatch uses one) and they can be had for £4.99 on UK Amazon.
There was never really anything to say about le col kit. Most of it was alright. Some of it was poorly designed/made. Trying to position yourself as a Rapha competitor whilst always offering 40% or more off doesn't scream premium though.
Up next in the MucOff product line; for when the cassette won't budge, (chain)whip-it!
21 thoughts on ““How is this allowed?” Chloé Dygert’s “I stand for the truth. I stand with Charlie Kirk” bike sticker at world championships divides opinion; Bizarre urban planning clip shows 11 cyclists ‘killed’ by drivers; Worlds TTT relay drama + more on the live blog”
“….on the Kyiv Transport
“….on the Kyiv Transport Community Facebook group, where the project was branded “complete shit” and a “primitive solution” to the area’s traffic problems.”
Flattery like that won’t change anything, it really needs to be rammed home to the designers that this scheme really is the worst of the twentieth century in road planning terms. We are still paying for the ‘complete shit’ that was put in then, and to even consider doing the same thing again is literally incredible.
It does beg the question ‘Was it designed by the KGB to destroy Ukraine from the inside?’
TBF a number of those
TBF a number of those Ukrainian cyclists did appear out of nowhere (although some of the cars did too 🤔).
Maybe all the car drivers in
Maybe all the drivers in the clip are Spaceballs.
We all know their slogan is “We brake for nobody.”
Spaceballs: The overpass
Spaceballs: The overpass
“I stand for the truth. I
“I stand for the truth. I stand with Charlie Kirk”
Another oxymoron.
Up is down, down is up.
Up is down, down is up.
Why is he described as “right
Why is he described as “right wing” or “conservative”? That would describe someone like David Cameron.
Charlie Kirk was far right. Not extreme right wing like the KKK, but definitely not common-or-garden right wing.
the little onion wrote:
Given that he said the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which ended (thoretically, at least) discrimination between citizens of the USA on the grounds of colour, was “a mistake”, I’d say he was pretty closely allied to the views of the Klan.
Rendel Harris wrote:
I’m no fan of Charlie Kirk (I’m an atheist, a trade unionist, and a former constituency assistant to a Labour MP, for a start). He was a supporter of Trump, which is unfathomable for any averagely intelligent person regardless of where they sit in the political spectrum. But I have believe he made it clear that he fully supported the provisions of the Civil Rights Act that ended formal discrimination, and described the Jim Crow laws and other racially discriminatory legislation that the Act put a stop to as evil.
He opposed the provisions or framing of the Act that in his opinion had made the development of a divisive DEI culture inevitable. He said that the Act created a parallel and incompatible Constitution, so he might well have been one of those US conservatives who believe that the Act infringed the constitutional right of free association. These are highly contentious positions, but they are a long way from being ‘closely allied to the views of the Klan’. I do find it interesting that few of his detractors seem to be willing to engage with what he actually said and believed rather than some gross misrepresentation of it, especially since what he actually said and believed gives plenty of scope for well considered opposition. But perhaps recognising that you’re arguing with someone about the best way to promote racial justice doesn’t flatter the ego in the same way as telling yourself you’re arguing for racial justice with someone who opposes it. I suspect it made it a lot easier for him to come out on top in debates with college kids.
So to precis, he didn’t mind
So to precis, he didn’t mind giving black Americans the vote but he opposed all the measures that gave them meaningful equality such as the right not to be discriminated against in terms of access to education, employment, healthcare et cetera. He continually demeaned black judges, members of Congress and even Michelle Obama as being intellectually inferior and only in their place because of their colour. He continually questioned the qualifications of black people to hold their jobs, going so far as to say that he would be nervous if he saw his plane had a black pilot because he would guess that they were only in the job because of their colour. He stated that in many neighbourhoods of America “prowling blacks” go around targeting white people for fun. Most tellingly, he was an adherent of the Great Replacement theory that liberal white elites are deliberately setting out to destroy the white race by encouraging immigration and unjustly promoting black people to positions of power. He was not interested in arguing about “the best way to promote racial justice”, he was interested in abolishing it. All of these attitudes would not be unusual in a member of the KKK; he was not the “contentious but reasonable” figure you attempt to portray, he was a hate-filled outright bigot who peddled extreme far-right ideology under the cover of a button down shirt, Christianity and a pretence of being willing to debate (his much-vaunted “debates” were nothing more than Q&A sessions used as an opportunity to put down anyone who opposed his views with “smart” answers, see for example the very last questions he answered before he was shot when he was challenged over his false assertions that many mass shootings in the USA are undertaken by transgender people (in fact it’s 0.1%): “Can you say how many mass shootings are carried out by transgender people?” Kirk: “Too many.”).
Exactly – although ultimately
Exactly – although ultimately this chap was on a mission from god (as well as his particular cultural take / ambition) and thus will have used all the tricks in the books of rhetoric and debating (and perhaps trolling) to come out on top … I suspect it’s still better to try to engage with what your opponent is trying to say than what you want to think they are saying.
Outside of that and it’s just Trump’s style, followed imminently by throwing rocks.
Respectfully, Chris,
Respectfully, Chris, everything that I said about him above has nothing to do with “what {I} want to think they are saying” and everything to do with the late unlamented’s own words and attitudes as reported and described in reputable media outlets and by senators, congresspeople and other high ranking US figures. If others wish to portray the man who repeatedly made blatant racist, homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic and Islamophobic comments in public and who ran an organisation which published blacklists of university professors for their supposedly left-leaning attitudes, leading many of them to receive death threats, as some sort of reasonable person with whom one should engage and debate then let them, but let’s not cover up his essential vicious and inflammatory nastiness by pretending he didn’t say the things he said.
Rendel Harris wrote:
Agreed – which is why I queried your summary of the original quote.
(I also hadn’t heard of this chap until his demise – perhaps like lots of people in the UK? So catching up… Better to see what people actually say and do.)
I guess it comes down to how one handles the “have you stopped beating your wife?” kind of insinuation and question-begging. (Or in a UK context Farage-style “just asking questions…”)
The temptation is either to walk away (leaving them the floor) or just apply labels (call names).
The latter is great with those on one’s own camp and those one opposes are probably unlikely to change * – but that may not persuade any others.
*Unless like this late preacher you catch them at a young age, or like Trump or other autocratic types you just make it not in people’s interests to openly oppose them.
Hirsute wrote:
Presumably they’re all postmodernists – there is no big truth, only stories, everyone’s own threads of meaning…?
Actually, no, it’s the return of religious autocracy (it never really went away). Although to a cynic this looks rather like the familiar “God helps those who help ourselves” if not “televangelist” kind…
Curiously the main man is a bit of an outlier in that regard (and somewhat like Boris seems to have picked a particular political side more as a vehicle for ambition). But he’s all over the “for me or against me” and tactics like only favouring the law when it suits. Don Trump, indeed…
I, too, kick over dismount
I, too, kick over dismount signs if they’re in stupid places. It became a bit of a game a year ago when some roadworks narrowed the shared use path on my commute to one lane, which actually made no sense as walking a bike through takes up more room than riding. 99% of riders ignored the sign anyway. I’d kick it over each night and then someone would put it up the next day.
Welcome to Africa Chloe.
Welcome to Africa Chloe.
Presumably “If my ten-year
Presumably “If my ten-year-old daughter was raped and became pregnant as a result yes I would make her have the baby” wouldn’t fit on a fork leg? Because that sure was one of St.Charlie’s “truths”.
I’m very much not in the fan
I’m very much not in the fan base but to “play by the rules” was that the actual quote? I read one (on BBC?) phrased differently. Not that the *results* would be different, it’s just the choice of point of emphasis of the hypothetical (save the unborn child) … (AFAIK this didn’t happen in reality).
Further difficulty – if he was up for following Trump’s lead * of course one wouldn’t be able to believe anything he said, followed by “Fact!” or not.
* As almost all the Republicans and increasingly state employees seem to have to do, to remain in post never mind advance.
To clarify, those are my
To clarify, those are my words but he was asked “If you had a daughter and she was 10 and she got raped, and she was going to give birth and she was going to live, would you want her to go through that and carry her rapist’s baby?”
And he replied “The answer is yes, the baby would be delivered.”
Fact check here
Both Chloé Dygert and Erika
Both Chloé Dygert and Erika Kirk are actually insulting Charlie Kirk’s “memory” and “belief system” by the way they are living their lives.
I assume they (Chloé and Erika) feel that those “truths”, “beliefs” and “rules” don’t apply to themselves.
“I stand for the truth. I
“I stand for the truth. I stand with Charlie Kirk”
Has to be one or the other, it can’t be both.