An 18-year-old man from Essex whom police say swerved into the path of a bus, forcing the driver to make an emergency stop that led to a 90-year-old male passenger falling and sustaining life-threatening head injuries, has been arrested on suspicion of assault [see update, below] and dangerous cycling.
Police say that the incident happened at 10.45 on Saturday morning on North Avenue Chelmsford, with the cyclist fleeing the scene on foot prior to officers arriving, leaving behind his bike, which had been damaged in the collision with the bus.
Officers from Essex Police’s Serious Collision Investigation unit subsequently traced the man concerned.
A police spokesman quoted on ITV Anglia News said: "The allegation is that the cyclist caused the bus driver to brake heavily and as a result the passenger was injured – that could constitute assault."
Update: Chris Gurton, the grandson of the injured man has been in touch to let us know the full details, as he has them. They're posted on his blog, and reproduced below:
My Grandparents had been on the bus on the way back home from town on Saturday morning. They were sitting on the front row of seats on the bus. The ones that are usually signed as priority seats for the elderly and women with pushchairs. Ironically, it turns out that one of these seats is probably the most unsafe seat on the bus. Suddenly the bus had to perform an emergency stop out of the blue without warning. My Grandad was sitting on the seat nearest the isle. The luggage rack in front of them only covered the side my Grandma was sitting, therefore there was nothing in front of the seat on my Grandad’s side. The force of the emergency stop sent my him flying forward and crashing into the front of the bus beside the driver, head first.
The reason for the emergency stop was a teenager on his bike who rode out in front of the bus without warning or without looking, backed up by witness accounts and CCTV footage. The lad on the bike came off his bike but was generally ok. He had picked up his bike and moved to the roadside as a crowd of people gathered. Unfortunately, my Grandad wasn’t so lucky. He hit his head with such force, it had been cut open and was bleeding badly. The impact also broke his neck leaving him unconscious. According to the Doctors at the hospital, the neck break trapped a nerve which stopped him breathing and he also suffered a heart attack.
Thankfully an ambulance and paramedic arrived quickly after the bus driver had immediately called 999. On their arrival they rushed went to the cyclist to treat him. It was a witness who shouted at them to leave the cyclist as he was ok and deal with my Grandad on the bus. The paramedic took one look at him and immediately an Air Ambulance was called for and further assistance. The Air Ambulance bought a team of specialists who set about stitching up my Grandad’s head on site to try and avoid him needing a blood transfusion as he was losing a lot of blood.
By this time, the teenager, upon realising what had actually happened, left the scene. Police took witness statements and photographed the scene by which time my Grandad had been rushed to hospital. As I write this he is currently in an induced coma in intensive care so you can imagine this is quite difficult for me to write. But I feel I should, mainly to clear up a lot of confusion.
The incident has been reported in the local newspapers, on local radio and on some websites. However the report is rather vague and states the Cyclist was arrested and charged with assault, despite not really saying what happened. This has led to some people questioning why the cyclist was arrested for assault and questioning why my Grandad was standing up and why the bus driver was driving while he was standing up.
So I now need to clear a few more things up. I too initially assumed my Grandad was standing up at the time of the incident but as explained earlier and backed up by many witnesses, this was not the case. The driver did nothing wrong. In fact, he did everything right, including calling for an Ambulance extremely quickly. Even witnesses stated his reactions to the cyclist were lighting fast. I have nothing but sympathy for him as it has been quite a distressing experience to deal with. As for the lad on the bike, Police arrested him after he had fled the scene and appealed for him to come forward. Thanks to eye witness reports and the Bus’s CCTV footage he was charged with Dangerous Cycling and Involuntary GBH.
Some people may think this is pretty harsh or unfair, but evidence proves he was entirely at fault and caused the incident. I will openly admit it is quite a freak accident, but one that could have been avoided had he been paying attention and riding correctly within the law. After all, if a car driver caused a serious accident by pulling out in front of someone, they too would be charged by the police.
Hopefully this will give a clearer picture of what happened and you can understand why the cyclist has been charged and why I am glad he has been. The lad probably will deny any wrong doing and I’m pretty sure isn’t the kind of cyclist who rides for exercise and competition like many do who I will admit are generally courteous and respectful of the road laws. I use the word ‘generally’ though as there is one more incident I want to highlight.
You can imagine my shock and disgust the very next day after my Grandad’s incident. I was driving back from work when a Cyclist from Boxford Bike Club rode out of a side road in front of me without looking causing me to brake hard. He seemed oblivious to what he did and I was shocked and appalled at what had happened. I know he was a Cyclist from Boxford Bike Club as it was written on his Jersey. Perhaps that club needs to educate its members and tell them the consequences of their ignorant actions.
So I urge all cyclists, PLEASE take responsibility for your riding. Respect the road laws and highway code. I know some drivers can be a menace to cyclists, but make sure you are not at fault. We ALL need to take responsibility when out on the road whatever mode of transport we are using. I will continue to defend cyclists against rude and ignorant drivers, but I will not defend those at fault. That includes those who ride through red lights. You give all of us who enjoy riding bikes a bad name and if you get hit by a vehicle in the process of ignoring traffic signals you have only got yourself to blame.
Finally, I wish to thank all the Doctors, Nurses and Staff at Queen’s Hospital in Romford who are currently looking after my Grandad and Essex Police for all their efforts and for so kindly looking after my Grandma until my Dad could be with her.
I hope my Grandad will make a full recovery soon.
75 thoughts on “Updated: Police arrest cyclist after bus driver’s emergency stop leaves passenger seriously injured”
Very stupid by the sounds of
Very stupid by the sounds of things, and very sad for the innocent passenger (and the driver must have freaked too), but I’m not convinced a dumbass manoeuvre by a teenager on a bike constitutes assault…
Assault? ASSAULT?
Did someone
Assault? ASSAULT?
Did someone put some acid in my coffee?
Assault does seem to be an
Assault does seem to be an inappropriate description, just hope the injured gent pulls through.
Doesn’t assault need intent?
Doesn’t assault need intent? IANAL but I think to prosecute, it would have to be proved that the cyclist intended to harm the old gent – who, I hope, makes a full recovery.
Assault??? Bollocks! Funny
Assault??? Bollocks! Funny how a guy was FILMXED assaulting a cyclist and the poli e did fuck all about it. Only when the video went viral and was shown in the news they dragged their lazy arses. But they didn’t arrest him nor charged him with assault! One rule for them…..
+1 with the above but
+1 with the above but also….wtf was a 90 year old guy standing on a bus for in the first place (I ‘m assuming he was standing as he fell). If he was the other passangers should be ashamed as unless the bus was full of 91 years someone shoud have given him a seat.
mrchrispy wrote:+1 with the
Old people are always standing up on busses, usually for 1 of 2 reasons.
They are infirm and therefore slow, and feel they need to be considerate to others by reducing the time the bus is stopped.
Or they are impatient and insist on standing and queing to get off the bus first.
This is all besides the point tho, the article dosnt state the passenger was standing, merely that they were flung to the floor. No seatbelt + sudden unexpected stop = thrown forwards.
The account states, very
The account states, very clearly, that the old chap was sitting in the front seat, therefore the fault for his injuries must lie with the bus designers & operators. However, the cyclist is guilty of cycling dangerously.
if it was a car which caused
if it was a car which caused this would the driver be charged with assault? (honest question, not taking the pee)
Safety belts (and helmets)
Safety belts (and helmets) for people riding on the bus? By law you have to wear one in just about any other vehicle. Assault = no, Dangerous riding = possibly. Should busses have front and rear camera?
Hope the guy pulls through.
what a knob, why would anyone
what a knob, why would anyone do that? Can only hope the injured gent pulls through. I’m not really sure it counts as assault as bloody stupid and dangerous as it was.
I can’t believe the Police
I can’t believe the Police will be stupid enough to actually charge him with assault.
Without knowing why the rider
Without knowing why the rider swerved there’s little to say really.
Does beg the question of how much room the bus was giving him, Highway Code Rule 163 and all that.
However, the most important thing is to hope that the injured chap recovers.
Yeah, if I’m in a car behind
Yeah, if I’m in a car behind someone who brakes suddenly for no reason I’M the one who is deemed to be at fault – that’s why there are so many fraudulent insurance claims for that exact scenario – as for charging with assault… WTF!!!
If this guy has been hit by a
If this guy has been hit by a bus, why has he ditched his bike and got off? Sounds suspect. But then so does the fact he’s been pulled for assault.
Whatever the reasons, or lack thereof, I hope the old boy pulls through for a full recovery.
Assault seems more than a
Assault seems more than a little odd.
Unless there’s video footage we don’t even know if it was poor cycling or poor driving that caused it (without footage we don’t even know IF the cyclist swerved, it could be a scared bus driver trying not to lose his job and no evidence to contradict his statement). Seems unlikely to have been deliberate since it sounds like it resulted in a collision and a trashed bike. Should have waited for the police though…
Whatever happened, hope the injured guy recovers fully.
well I hope they have proper
well I hope they have proper evidence, I was badly tailgated by a bus, I slowed down very gradually as per highway code, the bus driver got too close, panicked and stomped on the brakes, I was about to have words with him but he went to see if the few passengers on the bus were ok snd no doubt blamed me for being in front of his bus…
and…
hmm, too many unknowns, but
hmm, too many unknowns, but what was the cyclist doing that the driver wasn’t aware of their presence? You are taught to watch for things, to be aware of your surroundings.
18yr old prat on the pavement, well they are always just riding straight off. So yes a bus COULD have to brake, but…
And if we reverse the situation. bus overtakes then suddenly pulls into busstop causing me to have to brake heavily, resulting in me dropping the bike on a wet muddy road? is that assault as well? Or is it only assualt if a cyclist does it?
There’s something screwy with
There’s something screwy with this story.
Hope the old guy makes a full recovery.
Yes, buses should have front & rear cameras. If they can fit 9 of the things inside each (London at least) bus, some external ones aren’t exactly a stretch. That way we’ll also have proof of bad driving by buses when we get hit as drivers, cyclists, or pedestrians.
Quote:Or is it only assualt
Only if it’s a cyclist.
It’s a well-known fact that drivers can do no wrong and that the cyclist is at fault simply for thinking about travelling by bike that day and causing the poor innocent hard-done-by driver to crash into him.
If it wasn’t for those pesky cyclists there would actually be world peace and harmony.
Switch this around and its
Switch this around and its the cyclist who gets hurt by the bus nearly 90% on here would be up in arms wanting the blood of the driver,
YET,
when its the cyclist at fault there must be mitigating circumstances etc etc etc etc. No wonder the public get p*ssed off with us. It beggars belief it really does.
stumps wrote:Switch this
I’ve just scanned back through the thread and I cant find anything like this.
In fact, there are more people suggesting the cyclist is a fault, or indeed a “dumbass”.
Most right thinking people are wondering how being punched, spat at, having things thrown at you, having cars driven in to you deliberately etc is seemingly never ever classed as assault, even if its all clearly caught on camera but getting yourself hit by a bus is.
EDIT – Just seen the above post. The point still stands though, if a non-motorist can be pulled on a GBH charge why not motorists?
farrell wrote:The point still
I’m aware of one case in which a motorist was charged with (and found guilty of) GBH; which is that of Carl Baxter, who intentionally reversed his vehicle at speed into a man and his daughter who were respectively on a bicycle and in a trailer.
Clearly a very different case to someone on a bike recklessly (not that we know the details) appearing in front of a bus – though presumably Baxter was convicted for voluntary, rather than involuntary, harm.
The main question for me here is along these lines:
Either there was intent to injure the unfortunate victim – which seems rather unlikely, in that jumping in front of a bus that he happens to be in doesn’t seem the smartest way to attack someone – or the person on the bike was being a reckless idiot. If the latter (which is likely the case) then it is broadly analogous to a three-year-old running out from the pavement: this is equally reckless, it’s just that we have different expectations of a three-year-old than we do of an eighteen-year-old. What would happen in this case? Would no questions be asked as to why a bus was in motion whilst a 90-year-old man was (presumably) standing in it?
It’s very difficult to comment on the specifics of the case given the limited and inaccurate reporting at this stage, but it seems a shame that the focus on one person’s recklessness should obscure a wider and more circumspect view of what went wrong here.
Quote:when its the cyclist at
Don’t really think anyone is saying that, it just seems very strange to charge the cyclist with assault? Unless he actually got on board the bus and twatted the guy after the accident?
No details at all – why did the cyclist swerve? Was it some “chav on a bike” who shot out of a side road, jumped the pavement without looking or was it what most on here would call a “proper cyclist” who moved a foot to the right to avoid a pothole?
If the latter, why was the bus that close to him?
Why was the passenger stood up?
There’s just no detail to go on but compare it to the case a few months ago where a cyclist was hit by an opening car door (illegally tinted), went under the wheels of a following bus (too close) and yet it was still the cyclist’s fault! You can understand why some people react as they do to hearing that the cyclist has automatically been declared at fault (even though we don’t know the full circumstances).
I used to commute down the
I used to commute down the tram line in Sheffield. One day a bus began pulling out and I thought he was about to cut me up. I swerved right, after passing the bus I lost control because my back wheel got stuck in the tram track and I was flung over the handlebars and broke my rib.
By the above logic this is assault, right?
oh yeah, bus driver didnt stop
sfichele wrote:I used to
I did that once, almost died in a bus related incident, and stopped. It’s such a pain being a commuter in Sheffield on a bike – the best routes are tram-ways and absolutely lethal.
First off, I truly hope the
First off, I truly hope the injured gent makes a full recovery.
Is there no longer such a thing as an accident? And it would appear the bus hit the cyclist…if his bike was damaged beyond riding…
But, again, we don’t know the facts here…is this where I get all raged up at the injustice of it all?
According to the injured
According to the injured man’s grandson, the second charge is involuntary GBH, not assault:
Thought this would be helpful
Thought this would be helpful – it is lifted direct from the CPS website. I picked s.20 GBH to reflect the level of injuries I’m guessing the poor old chap has sustained if his injuries are life threatening. Praying he recovers.
“Unlawful wounding/inflicting grievous bodily harm, contrary to section 20 of the Act
This offence is committed when a person unlawfully and maliciously, either:
wounds another person; or
inflicts grievous bodily harm upon another person.
It is an either way offence, which carries a maximum penalty on indictment of five years’ imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine. Summarily, the maximum penalty is six months’ imprisonment and/or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum.
Wounding means the breaking of the continuity of the whole of the outer skin, or the inner skin within the cheek or lip. It does not include the rupturing of internal blood vessels.
The definition of wounding may encompass injuries that are relatively minor in nature, for example a small cut or laceration. An assault resulting in such minor injuries should more appropriately be charged as Common Assault or, where a sentence of more than 6 months’ imprisonment is likely, ABH. An offence contrary to section 20 should be reserved for those wounds considered to be really serious (thus equating the offence with the infliction of grievous, or serious, bodily harm under the other part of the section).
Grievous bodily harm means really serious bodily harm. It is for the jury to decide whether the harm is really serious. However, examples of what would usually amount to really serious harm include:
injury resulting in permanent disability, loss of sensory function or visible disfigurement;
broken or displaced limbs or bones, including fractured skull, compound fractures, broken cheek bone, jaw, ribs, etc;
injuries which cause substantial loss of blood, usually necessitating a transfusion or result in lengthy treatment or incapacity;
serious psychiatric injury. As with assault occasioning actual bodily harm, appropriate expert evidence is essential to prove the injury
In accordance with the recommendation in R v McCready (1978) 1 WLR 1376, if there is any reliable evidence that a sufficiently serious wound has been inflicted, then the charge under section 20 should be of unlawful wounding, rather than of inflicting grievous bodily harm. Where both a wound and grievous bodily harm have been inflicted, discretion should be used in choosing which part of section 20 more appropriately reflects the true nature of the offence.
The prosecution must prove under section 20 that either the defendant intended, or actually foresaw, that the act might cause some harm. It is not necessary to prove that the defendant either intended or foresaw that the unlawful act might cause physical harm of the gravity described in section 20. It is enough that the defendant foresaw some physical harm to some person, albeit of a minor character, might result: (R v Savage; DPP v Parmenter [1992] 1 A.C 699).”
Google the case law above – e-lawresources.co.uk has the relevant cases. The upshot is “It was not necessary to demonstrate the defendant had the mens rea in relation to level of harm inflicted. It was sufficient that they intended or could foresee that some harm will result”. “Mens rea” means ‘guilty mind’/’intent’
So tired, so very tired..
So tired, so very tired..
I hope he makes a full
I hope he makes a full recovery, but the age of the injured man is immaterial here. Raises an interesting point though – would the man’s case for compensation be against the bus driver/company for failing in their duty of care to their passengers, or against the cyclist? If I was on a bus that was hit by a truck it would be against the truck… so in theory, assuming the bus driver was forced to stop quickly to avoid hitting the cyclist, then the cyclist is at fault.
Look at it the other way: bus driver mows down the cyclist “because he couldn’t brake hard or his passengers would have fallen over”. Imagine the uproar…
Gizmo_ wrote: would the man’s
A friend of mine was in a taxi that was hit head on by another driver. The taxi driver was not at fault. The claim for her injuries is against the taxi drivers insurance. His insurance will then claim off the other driver. As I understand it, any passenger involved in an accident claims off the vehicle they were traveling in, and their insurance then claims against the other.
This is why I have bicycle liability insurance, just in case I make a bad call, or someone tries to hold me responsible for an incident. But it will also help me take actions against others if necessary. Just covering my back side.
And I am pretty much playing
And I am pretty much playing a devils advocate with this comment, reversing a fairly typical situation….but
Surely its the passengers fault, (contributory negligence) if he was wearing a helmet he would probably have been fine….
I do indeed wish the gent a speedy recovery
On the modern buses there are
On the modern buses there are actually quite a lot of external cameras.
I was involved in an incident around Clapham Common where a bus started to overtake me and then came into the bus stop before getting past, forcing me into the gutter and to jump onto the pavement.
I then pursued the bus to speak to the driver who refused to open his window. I put myself and the bike in front of the bus to stop him moving and he started edging forward until he hit the bike, at which point I decided to get out of the way, and as he roared off he went over my wheel. It was buckled but still functional so this time I caught him and indicated I was calling the police to report the accident, but he just ignored it and drove off.
The point of the story being that I not only reported it ASAP to the police but also wrote to the bus company, who reviewed the footage themselves and paid for a new wheel.
Then they passed it to the police who brought a charge against the driver. When it got to court the magistrates had a series of still photographs covering the side where I was squeezed off and the front of the bus showing that I had done nothing wrong, plus someone had reviewed the video footage and submitted a report backing up my story.
He was fined and disqualified which I presume means he no longer drove buses.
I was pretty impressed.
If a pedestrian had caused
If a pedestrian had caused the bus to stop suddenly, would he have been charged with assault ? Of course not !
It’s the witch hunt against us that’s found a new way to manifest itself.
cisgil23 wrote:If a
That is a very good point. I’m sure we all agree that this cyclist is probably an idiot but how many times have you had a vehicle pull out in front of you and had to brake hard on the bike? Personally, i’ve lost count. Never heard of anyone being arrested for that….
in my experience bus drivers
in my experience bus drivers can be very aggressive and bullying of other road users. Could the bus driver have done anything to avoid the collision? Was the bus driver speeding?
The problem is that what a
The problem is that what a reader of this web site would consider a “cyclist” – a responsible user of the highway – is not necessarily what the general public consider to be a “cyclist” – anyone sitting on a non motorised two wheel mode of transport.
We therefore have competent riders dumped into the same category as some teen moron riding around on a full suspension BSO with buckled wheels and no brakes! There’s nothing to suggest which this rider was, but he abandoned his bike, would you have done that?
This is an interesting
This is an interesting read:
http://tracksideviews.com/2013/08/06/responsibilities/
Puts the full story across pretty well…
I think we need to be careful
I think we need to be careful not to take the cycling view (just like we criticise people for taking the car view).
Without knowing the details and anyone getting injured is not good no matter the circumstances. My comment would be about consistency. Driver squashes cyclist with truck and nothing happens, cyclist swerves could be charged with assault. There should be consistency for cyclists, pedestrians and drivers.
It has to be said that in the battle of a bus over bike the bust is going to win….
+1 on buses having lots of
+1 on buses having lots of cameras. Buses are on the road frequently for 15-18 hours a day, and some drivers involved in accidents with buses will dispute fault and circumstances. Upon receiving the accident report, the bus company will review the footage, and not infrequently tell the car driver’s insurer “away and boil your heid” or something similar, attaching a CDROM with a video of the accident.
It’s always fun telling the policyholders they’re at fault though.
In order for there to be a
In order for there to be a prosecution for assault first there has to be an assault.
this is defined by case law as “an assault is committed where the defendant intentionally or recklessly causes the victim to apprehend immediate unlawful personal violence.”
hard to see how what this person did could be construed as this.
That said, that’s the legal definition and is for the courts to apply. You could argue that a robust approach by the police who arrested him, is appropriate, an arrest being only the start of the process. The arrest is on suspicion of assault, and all law is ultimately defined in the court room.
It’s a shame the police seem to be incapable of taking such a robust approach whether the offender is a cyclist or driver or anything else for that matter. I suspect there’s a large range of reasons for this, ranging from incompetence all the way up to fear of being sued for breaching someones human rights, via being hamstrung by bureaucracy and dwindling resources.
I hope the old chap recovers fully, but bizarrely, if he doesn’t, a prosecution for manslaughter could take place, as this requires no assault, only that an unlawful act directly led to the death. (don’t quote me on the latter it’s a while since i killed anyone).
Some magnificent victim blame
Some magnificent victim blame as usual in these comments.
Cyclist would have been
Cyclist would have been better off staying than running, it looks like a guilty action. Although who knows, could have been scared of passengers yelling at him. Buses should be equipped with cameras for this stuff. I hope the bus driver doesn’t get more credibility on his account of what happened as I’ve seen bus drivers do some amazingly dumb stuff.
Dangerous Cycling, yes.
Dangerous Cycling, yes. Assault, no. That charge is doomed to fail.
The Police should also consider Wanton and Furious (max 2 years in prison). Dangerous is a max £2500 fine. I gather the bus has onboard CCTV? Also street CCTV? With that it could be pretty damming.
Hope the kid gets the book thrown at him. It is only a shame similar standards of road use regarding driving are not as vigorously pursued…
downfader wrote:Dangerous
Most sensible comment so far.
I hope the old chap pulls through, and I do not see why he should be in anyway to blame for what happened to him. If the cops start taking “car hits cyclist” as seriously as “car hits anyone not riding a bike” then things would improve no end.
As far as the lout on the bike is concerned I hope he does get the booknthrown at him, it’s his sort that give the rest of us a bad name! 🙁
downfader wrote:Dangerous
[quote=downfader]Dangerous Cycling, yes.
“The Police should also consider Wanton and Furious (max 2 years in prison).” “Dangerous is a max £2500 fine.”
“Hope the kid gets the book thrown at him.”
[[[[ But as mentioned elsewhere, the cyclist may have been avoiding a bad pothole. Or do you know something the rest of us don’t?
P.R.
This seems to set an
This seems to set an interesting precedent, or will do if the charge succeeds.
All those apocryphal old biddies, forever bemoaning others’ terrible driving, as evidenced by all the accidents they see receding in their mirrors. Caused by people dodging their crap driving. So now if they can be traced they can be charged. We’ll see.
..[edit – just read update]
..[edit – just read update] sorry to hear about the old man’s condition. 🙁
Just speculating because I
Just speculating because I know *very* little about criminal charges, but could the charge of Involuntary GBH be being used to balance things?
To clarify: had it been a motorist that cut up the bus, the driver would probably have been charged with Dangerous Driving but finally convicted of the lesser charge of Careless Driving which doesn’t (as I understand it) have the same scope for punishment. Now, taking into account the victim’s injuries, a charge of Dangerous Driving would probably stick.
So, does a charge of Dangerous Cycling allow the courts to punish someone equal to a charge of Dangerous Driving? If not, is that why a second charge comes into it?
Rob
This road?
This road? http://goo.gl/maps/9IumP
Looks like a nightmare for cyclists.
The worst part of this
The worst part of this accident that could have been caused by anything that causes an emergency stop is the fact that the bus seat in a dangerous position didn’t have a seat belt. In our health and safety conscious era that seems amazing and would have prevented the accident at source. Surely the bus company has been negligent and could be prosecuted for this.
Hope the old man recovers but it sounds very bad.
FFS-as ever a report about an
FFS-as ever a report about an incident involving somebody on a bike is posted and all the wannabe road.cc Miss Marples and Inspector Morses appear, and using wild speculation and assumptions start trying to piece together what happened, and as ever judging by the posts before the update, jumped the gun.
The facts- someone on a bike forced a bus driver to do an emergency stop. An elderly gentleman has been seriously injured. Some charges are being pressed against the person on the bike. That is all we know- the blame game is pointless until the proper facts emerge and as none of us saw this happen we have to wait until we find out.
Maybe road.cc needs to think about not allowing people to comment on stories such as these until after any legal action, if any, has concluded.
More importantly, our thoughts should be with the injured man.
I hope the passenger
I hope the passenger recovers.
I had two incidents today’s where twerps on bikes jumped from pavement into road in front of the car I was driving. I hurt neither. No Emergency stop as I had suspicions and covered the brake. So why didn’t the bus driver. Sounds like they share blame for the injury, but the rider has traffic offences to answer for too.
There are a few interesting
There are a few interesting questions from this. I hope the elderly gentleman makes a full and speedy recovery.
Buses need to make emergency stops. Surely there is an issue if it is possible for a passenger to fall down & injure themselves in this way.
What if the “thing” running out had been a dog, or someone absent-mindedly pushing a pram/pushchair in the road (see that often around here)
It was a “cyclist”, nope it was an individual person riding a bicycle. I absolutely do not condone the persons actions.
It is right that he is charged. It is not right that the overwhelming number of drivers either dont end up in court or or the ones charged with causing injury or death of people riding bicycles get such lenient sentences.
It will be very interesting to look out for the case and the sentencing and compare
gazza_d wrote:
It was a
At what point does one graduate from an individual to a cyclist?
Seems spot on IMO. And it’s
Seems spot on IMO. And it’s also refreshing to see the victim’s grandson make the clarification that this was an idiot on a bike rather than a cyclist (paraphrase). And he quite fairly, IMO, also identifies a cyclist in another incident who should know better.
But I’d take issue with the fact that a motorist would be similarly charged. Some are, many are not. If all motorists were charged thus the Courts would be full to breaking point. The problem generally is lack of evidence.
best wishes for a speedy
best wishes for a speedy recovery to the injured man. If the CPS is going to charge people with this level of crime, I have no problem with it. As long as it is applied equally to all road users. The next time someone doors a cyclist and fractures their heel, as happened to me 3 years ago, they should be charged with involuntary ABH or GBH as is relevant.
Many thanks to Chris Gurton
Many thanks to Chris Gurton for posting a pretty comprehensive report of the incident, and I’m sure we all wish your Grandfather a full and speedy recovery.
I think what perplexes most people on this site, is that a cyclist is charged with involuntary GBH in these circumstances, when that would appear never to happen to any other road user in similar circumstances. I think we can all agree, that from the reports, the cyclist’s behaviour was wrong, but what we have trouble understanding is why this law appears only to apply to cyclists?
GBH WITHOUT intent sounds
GBH WITHOUT intent sounds like a very fair charge to me. I hope that the grandfather recovers.
I would like to see this set a precedent for other RTC’s involving bicycles though. If this was used as a charge for vehicle drivers involved in collisions with cyclists we might see a calming down of aggressive driving.
Nasty incident and freakish
Nasty incident and freakish in that usually the penalty for the cyclist being so careless would be their own injury/death rather than someone else’s. I can’t see the GBH thing getting very far though and if prosecuting drivers killing cyclists due to being blinded by the sun doesn’t seem to warrant anything more than a slap on the wrist then I assume the dangerous cycling thing won’t get far either.
As others have said, you have to question the bus design to (are there seatbelts?) that doesn’t seem to cater at all for the need to sometimes perform an emergency stop yet keep it’s occupants safe. Hopefully the injured guy makes a full and speedy recovery.
It seems to me the real story
It seems to me the real story is about pasenger safety on buses. All types of vehicles sometimes need to perform emergency stops and this action should be safe for the occupants. Whether the kid on the bike is to blame, or the bus driver, or a bit of both the result is the same and meaningfull prevention of this sort of thing lies in vehicle design.
My thoughts go out to the man
My thoughts go out to the man who was injured, but how come “dangerous cycling” charge, when cyclists time after time show footage of motorists “dangerous driving” and time after time it is reduced to “driving without care”…. even in some circumstances when cyclists have died!
why is it weighted in the favour of the person driving the motor vehicle time after time???
Am I alone in thinking that a
Am I alone in thinking that a bus driver, in charge of a vehicle unusual in being exempt from seatbelt laws, has an extra duty of care to drive cautiously and, given the unrestrained passengers, to try avoid getting into situations where emergency braking is their only option? That is, without wishing to absolve the cyclist of whatever blame, isn’t the bus driver potentially also at fault for travelling faster than they could comfortably brake in, given the environment they could see ahead of them, both on and off road?
Paul J wrote:Am I alone in
Possibly so. If someone on a bike (or a pedestrian) comes straight off the kerb into a small gap between a bus and the vehicle in front, that is not possible to avoid even at very slow speed. How short a distance should they be able to brake in? At a certain point, it becomes unrealistic, IMHO.
“After all, if a car driver
“After all, if a car driver caused a serious accident by pulling out in front of someone, they too would be charged by the police.”
Really? Not it would appear in most people’s experience if it involves injury to a cyclist.
I was just about to post
I was just about to post exactly the same thing.
Cyclists are very much the poor relation when it comes to consideration on the roads.
I have great sympathy with the family of the elderly gentleman and wish him a full and speedy recovery, but I fully expect the teenager to have the book thrown at him for a crime – not the end result – far exceeded by many car drivers on a daily basis, who for whom even an interview at the station is too much effort for the police.
Guys! In most cities buses
Guys! In most cities buses are VERY safe! I’ve traveled on many over the years. I can however fully see how a driver wouldnt get the chance to prepare for said kid.
You cant blame the driver for this.
Guys – for all of you who are
Guys – for all of you who are suggesting the driver should be more alert and is to blame think of this, if he hadn’t been quite as alert the headline on here would be ‘cyclist dies after by being hit by a bus’, quite a different spin on things.
I really hope the gent makes a full recovery.
Definitely not the drivers
Definitely not the drivers fault! Beats me what charge the police can bring against the young cyclist? Nothing in the law statutes that would fit? He didn’t intend to commit a crime; and didn’t assault anyone! Law is an ass; and must be some ass-oles trying to enforce it.
Hope the Gentleman who was injured is OK? and making a full recovery.
Firstly, my sincere wishes
Firstly, my sincere wishes for a speedy recovery of the injured party, the trully inocent person in this case. Prehaps something can be done regarding the provision of seatbelts on buses, even if not compulsory to use them.
On to the cyclist – Seems strange that “Assult” and “Dangerous Riding” are the charges being brought. Despite various cases where the motorist drives 1.5 Tonne of metal at a cyclist, I’ve never heard of any motorist being charged with Assault. Dangerous driving is almost just as rare, normally driving without due care……….
Again the law seems to be out of balance in its application.
A professional driver should
A professional driver should anticipate the actions of other road users and drive accordingly, so it does seem rather surprising that this driver had to make a severe application of the brakes, and still hit the bike. However we have a very limited detail of what actually happened.
We don’t even have the detail of what bus route it was and who the operator is.
The bus driver is not at
The bus driver is not at fault. Whilst at work today i dealt with a bus rtc. The pedestrian was busy on his phone and stepped out into the path of the bus without looking when the bus was no more than 6 ft away.
He headbutted the corner of the bus and bounced back onto the pavement.
No matter what you drive or how good a driver you are you cannot control what happens in front of you, only react.
stumps wrote:The bus driver
And you a copper and all.
Ok yes you can “only” react but what determines the outcome of your reaction is your time to react. ie whether you have to pull an emergency stop or a more controlled stop. The time you have to react is mainly determined by the way you drive: speed, position, observation. You know like how proper Police Drivers are taught.
If it’s just reactions that determine the outcome then obviously those fit sporty young male drivers 18 – 25 with lightning fast reactions would be having fewer accidents than 52 year old duffers like me. How come the accident stats have it the other way round?
If a bus has to pull an emergency stop on such a scale as to injure a passenger then at least some of the investigation ought to be looking very heavily at the driver.
Now in this case the cyclist may well have been at fault. He certainly was for leaving the scene. But this idea that drivers are completely at the mercy of unexpected events is pretty lame. People pull out in front of drivers, open their car doors, balls bounce in the road, things fall off lorries, cats and other animals run across the road and generally all sorts of unexpected things can happen. Some people have collisions when they happen some don’t. The ones that mainly don’t are the ones that left themselves time and space to react.
This is not luck. It’s not using the force or magic powers. Just driving properly.
oozaveared wrote:
… this
Safe stopping distance and adhering to speed limits (or, *gasp*, going below the speed limit if conditions call for it) are anathema to most people. Very few people I know do not tailgate or breach speed limits regularly, and you’re labelled a cyclenazi if you point it out to them. You’re the one who’s being unreasonable, with a chip on your shoulder – and they’re perfectly capable drivers. Uh huh … I’m so sick of this attitude. And yes, it’s a majority. Probably a cultural thing, they can’t all be that stupid, right? Right?