LCC reveals how Bow roundabout could have looked had TfL heeded safety advice

cat1commuter said:

"That design still looks a real mess to me. You can't mix cyclists and heavy traffic on a dual carriageway roundabout."

I think the point is that the current situation forces walkers and cyclists to cross the path of fast-moving heavy traffic...

whereas the LCC design takes the cycle lanes completely off the busy roads and adds toucan crossings to make sure cyclists and walkers can cross without danger.

True, the lights will slow cyclist journeys somewhat, but if the they're timed so you can cross in one go, this delay shouldn't be excessive.

There are perhaps even better solutions, which involve taking out the underpass and the flyover, but that's probably not realistic in today's economic climate

Gabalfa, Cardiff in Rush-hour yesterday: taking the flyover:

http://youtu.be/4PDSZYm9qLc

Yeah good points Simon and Nic (Hi mate, long time) et al.
On pedestrian islands....this from a clubride the other week, recorded on the GoPro : http://youtu.be/N3NkvH2RuUM . I've seen motorists cut in rather than stop or just drive right round the wrong side, even on large ones with a pelican crossing! Criminal.

I'll post some footage from the Gabalfa one later too. I much prefer the flyover or, if in a slower paced mood with no pressure, using the cycleways- the roundabout is horrible.

Yes coleman good point about TFL pushing people into these areas. Not reasonable or responsible.

Personally it took me one ride in London to figure out that LCC etc routes were often a waste of time and not to be relied on (and yes, I am a paying member). I enjoy sorting out new routes but appreciate that some people just want to ride to work in the shortest possible time in which case the provision in London is sometimes passable but often misleadingly dangerous.

Now ped islands. Yes they squeeze the traffic and are often bad for cyclists but when walking I love them. They often coincide with 'desire lines'. Overall I accept the compromise, however I am able to keep up the 20-25mph you need to get through those areas safely - pretty sure they are no good for slower or newer cyclists.

Which brings me to one of those commuting conundrums - it's often better to be going towards car speed, which is a lot faster than the ambient cycling traffic speed. This creates it's own danger, and something that has notably increased my stress over the last few years in London where cycling traffic is so much more than it used to be. I have now started to factor in popularity with cyclists as a negative on route selection...

Quote:

Pedestrian islands are another example of where pedestrian safety has superseded the safety of the cyclist

let's not forget that pedestrian islands have only become necessary because of an underlying belief that motor traffic shouldn't have to wait for someone to walk all the way across a road... traffic flow comes first, as ever

John Franklyn (Cyclecraft) and Dave Dansky both recommend that where a roundabout appears to be dangerous (either due layout or the ability of the rider) - get off and become a pedestrian - sometimes it's safer to go slow, especially as once back on the bike it's way faster than being in the car, stuck in a jam!

Not that I'm excusing bad layouts, there are plenty of those, as road design will always be a balance of cost vs "main" road user groups (motorised vehicles) vs "minor" road user groups (everyone else). Pedestrian islands are another example of where pedestrian safety has superseded the safety of the cyclist - The cyclist is now faced with either kerb hugging and being squeezed by overtaking cars (yes some driver will try it and some cyclists think it's safe) or taking the lane (in 30 mph traffic) which not all riders are physically capable of.

I always use the flyover going east to west (or vice versa). Yes you have to move accross the traffic but at least everything is moving in the same direction and once you're on the flyover there is loads of space. Coming down the other side you're doing a similar speed to other traffic when the lanes merge. Not perfect but that roundabout is nasty.

(Not a Kenny Loggins Danger Zone. A horrible east London danger zone.)

Remember - this is part of a cycle super highway. TfL has been promoting it. Rather than people avoiding the junction they have been led to beleive this is part of a cycle route into central London. It's not just a case of cyclists finding a quieter route; TfL has led people into the danger zone.

Good pics simon - show just how ineffectual the big blue line theory of cycle planning is. They don't make a blind bit of difference really.

I don't take this route but I do know that there are a couple of sensible alternatives higher and lower to cross the A12 but they are a looooong way from the ideal E-W route and would add a good 10 minutes for anyone going from Stratford to City (thinking of the new olympic bridge from viewtube or the pedestrian bridge to Victoria Park.) The road either side of this roundabout are horrible too, masses of traffic, lots of side roads and lights. If it were my route I would plan and ride a spaghetti route to avoid them (that's the fun of London commuting, finding ever quieter and safer routes home!).

If I were to ride this round about then looking at the proposal it would be down to the light sequence to me - if you could get a complete E-W in one change I would use the bike lanes, if you couldn't I would 'be traffic'.

Thanks for the link Simon, I guess there is no other route that can bypass that roundabout without incurring a long detour? The only reason i thought that was the amount of people calling for change and the number of accidents

I would rather stick a few miles onto a commute over using that monster, HOW could TFL even think that was going to work?

I'd do this and others on the carriageway The peripheral path & crossings approach still places cycle traffic in the firing line and unless the exit junctions are signalised you've potentially a square-on impact with any vehicle coming round the roundabout.

The lanes marked by TfL took no account of left turning traffic
and placed cyclists right in the firing line

That design still looks a real mess to me. You can't mix cyclists and heavy traffic on a dual carriageway roundabout.

As i have never seen this roundabout or cycled much in london, does anyone have a similar shot of what it looks like now or do you just take the blue lines away?

Is this road layout similar to Gabalfa (with flyover) in Cardiff?

If I'm on the A470 in Cardiff I take the flyover or the cycleway's beneath (which use underpasses to avoid the frenetic navigation). Once on the flyover (yes there are exit slips which can be a problem but one has to take care, ride at a reasonable pace assert oneself) the traffic travels in the same driection at least.

I hardly ever use the junction via the Whitchurch Rd (see A469 on South side) as it means entering and exiting a roundabout where everyone corners at 30mph + .

Making the roundabout smaller won't make it much safer IME especially for the vehicular traffic. The crossings are good but having to wait for 5 sequences may be off-putting for some.

For reference:

http://bit.ly/s2CXxu