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30mph cyclists "more alarming" than 50mph motorists says Dartmoor Speedwatch Group

“I really think it’s about time something was done about this group of people who seem to be invisible to the authorities but pose a very real danger on the road”

Cyclists riding within the speed limit are “more alarming” than motorists exceeding it according to Dartmoor Speedwatch Group.

The Tavistock Times Gazette reports that volunteers monitoring excessive speed from the Postrbridge bus stop caught five out of 53 vehicles speeding in a 40mph zone, with one person driving at 50mph.

“What was perhaps more alarming were the cyclists who on average came past the bus stop at between 30 to 35mph,” said the group’s manager, Gregg Manning.

“With a rider weighing perhaps 12 stone travelling at 35mph, with the bike as well, the combined impact that would have on a pedestrian would cause serious injuries or even death.

“I really think it’s about time something was done about this group of people who seem to be invisible to the authorities but pose a very real danger on the road.”

Manning conceded that the cyclists were not doing anything illegal, “but when you watch them come through the village and over the narrow crossing point going as fast as they possibly can it is very dangerous if a pedestrian crosses.”

He added: “What is even worse is that unlike bikers who wear protective clothing, these riders wear the thinnest of material with lots of bare flesh. Bare flesh and tarmac do not mix.

“I am sure this will generate some reaction from the biking world but I really am only stating facts — I want to know how long it takes to stop a bike at that speed.”

Over to you, road.cc readers.

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

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56 comments

Avatar
Kendo | 4 years ago
0 likes

Don't post here, send your comments to the reporter:

lindsay.turpin [at] tavistock-today.co.uk

@lindsaymturpin

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ktache | 4 years ago
0 likes

But someone just threw a Hi Viz waistcoat on that cow, and it doesn't look impressed.

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ktache | 4 years ago
0 likes

And cows with retroreflective ear tags

 

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ktache | 4 years ago
1 like

As I understand Burt, they have already tried Hi-Viz

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/dartmoor-ponies-painted-reflect...

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Hirsute replied to ktache | 4 years ago
1 like

[quote=ktache]<p>As I understand Burt, they have already tried Hi-Viz</p>

<p>https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/dartmoor-ponies-painted-reflect...
Thanks - that led to this gem
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/cows-could-fitted-lights-hi-613...

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chrisc | 4 years ago
3 likes

KE = ½ m v2

Bike/rider 86kg at 30mph          KE =     8Kj

Car         1500kg at 50mph          KE = 375Kj

47 times more energy in death by car

I'm guessing Greg isn't a member of the Tavistock Mensa society.

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ConcordeCX | 4 years ago
5 likes

It seems to me that the issue here, disregarding Mr Manning’s woeful misreading, is having such a high speed limit through a village and no anti-speed infrastructure to enforce it.

I’ve toured quite a lot in France where many, perhaps most, villages on well-trafficked roads put all sorts of measures in place to bring speeds of both motor vehicles and bicycles down to a good deal less than 20mph. This includes rumble strips at the outskirts, chicanes, different road surfaces in the village, plateau-type speed bumps/crossings, very narrow carriageways and other measures. They seem very effective to me and make the villages far more pleasant.

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zero_trooper replied to ConcordeCX | 4 years ago
0 likes

ConcordeCX wrote:

It seems to me that the issue here, disregarding Mr Manning’s woeful misreading, is having such a high speed limit through a village and no anti-speed infrastructure to enforce it.

Exactly! I read the feature and then the newspaper article. I immediately wondered why there wasn’t a pedestrian crossing?

So tourist coaches park one side of the road and their passengers cross a 40mph road to the ancient bridge?

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Organon | 4 years ago
3 likes

What is the stopping distance of a cyclist doing 30mph? Well pros like Chris Froome can stop in 0m, so no problems there.

Sorry, dark humour helps some times. This Manning is a real muppet and his inbox will be toast right now. The only fortunate thing is his BS is so transparent as to be meaningless. Although it seems like people these days have no critical thinking of their own, they just give in to their own prejudices immediately, media bubbles and all that. We here on road.cc are probably just the same, lets just hope 'the truth has a cycling bias.'

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Simon E replied to Organon | 4 years ago
1 like

Organon wrote:

This Manning is a real muppet and his inbox will be toast right now. The only fortunate thing is his BS is so transparent as to be meaningless. Although it seems like people these days have no critical thinking of their own, they just give in to their own prejudices immediately, media bubbles and all that.

The BS may be transparent to us but lots of people will take his comments at face value and think "bloody cyclists!", yet again reinforcing a stereotype, regardless of any facts.

Social media, online MSM will take it and run with it. Those 'bubbles' are massive, their influence is HUGE.

Regarding ponies and fencing I'm reminded of this:

Quote:

Things are not always what they seem.

The deer isn't crossing the road. The road is crossing the forest.

https://twitter.com/AmericanIndian8/status/998937779747807232

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lx | 4 years ago
1 like

I once stopped from 30mph within less than 1,5m (because a motorist cut me off when he had to yield). Try that with a car and then tell me again who's more dangerous.

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ktache | 4 years ago
4 likes

The top story from the journalist and the local rag is about a dead pony at a speeding hotspot.  I couldn't be bothered myself to explain the illogical aspects between the two stories.

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zero_trooper replied to ktache | 4 years ago
1 like

ktache wrote:

The top story from the journalist and the local rag is about a dead pony at a speeding hotspot.  I couldn't be bothered myself to explain the illogical aspects between the two stories.

Thanks for the heads up ktache. I read the ‘dead horse’ article and immediately wondered ‘why don’t they just put a fence up?’

P.S. I have never been to Dartmoor.

 

 

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burtthebike replied to zero_trooper | 4 years ago
3 likes

zero_trooper wrote:

ktache wrote:

The top story from the journalist and the local rag is about a dead pony at a speeding hotspot.  I couldn't be bothered myself to explain the illogical aspects between the two stories.

Thanks for the heads up ktache. I read the ‘dead horse’ article and immediately wondered ‘why don’t they just put a fence up?’

P.S. I have never been to Dartmoor.

Dartmoor is far too big an area, with many miles of road bordered by the moor, and it would be extremely difficult and incredibly expensive to fence, and would reduce the amenity value considerably.

Far better to get the horses to wear helmets.  Cheaper and blames the victims.

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Luca Patrono | 4 years ago
2 likes

Messaging that email at all is a losing game. Anyone prepared to make such a bold statement is not going to be swayed by emails which are obviously coming from cyclists. Debates like these are won in the wider public arena.

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FluffyKittenofT... | 4 years ago
5 likes

I seriously hope nobody is abusive or sweary with that email address.  It surely has to be possible to point out the flawed reasoning involved while staying entirely polite?

 

Looking at that on streetview (I think I might have been there, but a lifetime ago) makes me disgruntled at how much prettier some people's environment is than others.  It's a bit nicer looking than Croydon or Peckham.  Looks like breathable air as well. 

But I wonder 'even if it slightly adversely affects the prettiness, can't they just build a separate pedestrian bridge so the problem goes away?'.

 

  There's bound to be a problem if you have 50mph traffic and a choke-point like that, but it just makes no sense to see cyclists as a bigger issue, when they have a tiny fraction of the momentum that a 40mph+ motorised vehicle will.

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thehairs1970 replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 4 years ago
1 like

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

I seriously hope nobody is abusive or sweary with that email address.  It surely has to be possible to point out the flawed reasoning involved while staying entirely polite?

 

Looking at that on streetview (I think I might have been there, but a lifetime ago) makes me disgruntled at how much prettier some people's environment is than others.  It's a bit nicer looking than Croydon or Peckham.  Looks like breathable air as well. 

But I wonder 'even if it slightly adversely affects the prettiness, can't they just build a separate pedestrian bridge so the problem goes away?'.

 

  There's bound to be a problem if you have 50mph traffic and a choke-point like that, but it just makes no sense to see cyclists as a bigger issue, when they have a tiny fraction of the momentum that a 40mph+ motorised vehicle will.

NO! It's a beautiful village in a moorland national park. No bridge please.

 

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WBoy replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 4 years ago
3 likes

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

But I wonder 'even if it slightly adversely affects the prettiness, can't they just build a separate pedestrian bridge so the problem goes away?'.

 

No need to build another one - there's been a  pedestrian bridge since the 13th century, the clapper bridge just a few feet downstream of the road bridge. It's the clapper bridge that the tourists cross the road to see.

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froze | 4 years ago
1 like

This is insane!  I can't believe someone, Greg, is complaining that cyclists are going to fast on a road rated for 50, does that mean motorists are really going way to fast?  This is the most obsurd thing I've ever read.  Not sure what the laws are there but in the States the simple answer is pedistrians in a crosswalk must yield to traffic UNLESS, if you read this, there is something else going on: https://driversprep.com/do-pedestrians-always-have-the-right-of-way/   I think Greg hates cyclists.

In the states a bicycle has the same rules as a motorist unless otherwise posted, and that means following speed limits as well.

Danger? Greg is least concerned about the safety of cyclists, he hates cyclists, and is trying to make a mountain out of an ant hill.

Greg needs to look at cyclists in an entirely different light.  Iris Murdoch once said that the bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart.  Maybe Greg needs to take up cycling.

 

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Cupov | 4 years ago
0 likes

Just checking in....has he been flamed yet?

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miekwidnes | 4 years ago
4 likes

Slightly weird concept of danger from this guy - seems to think a cyclist doing 30mph is more dangerous than 2 tons of metal doing 50 mph. The last speed awareness course I went on was banging on (quite rightly) about how  a couple of mph more makes a huge difference to the injuries.

Also - it is far easier for a narrow (1human wide - ish) cyclist to avoid someone than a car which is several humans wide with a  slightly worse view of the outside world

 

Interesting point about stopping distances though (in the commenst - not from Greg obviously!) - any seen any actual test on stopping distances of bikes - road bike v mountain bike and road tyres v knbbly tyres v halfway all purpose ones? Would be intersting and we could send the results to Greg

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martybsays | 4 years ago
5 likes

What is the point of answering this nonsense here? Clearly you have to write to the  Tavistock Times Gazette. Or burn it down or something.

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handlebarcam | 4 years ago
3 likes

Gregg's a fruitcake. Or possibly a vegan sausage roll.

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Judge dreadful | 4 years ago
3 likes

What is that bloody idiot going on about? A car doing 40 will severely mess up a pedestrian, let alone a car exceeding the limit, a bike with a rider on it really pales into relative insignificance.

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dafyddp | 4 years ago
1 like

Dear Gregg

would inserting ‘Spokey Dokes’ or similar oscillating spoke embellishments that make my bicycle sound a bit like a motorbike satisfy your velo-strations? I can also attach an air horn to alert pedestrians as they cross the road, if that helps?

Keep the curtain’s twitching, love and peace,

D

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ktache | 4 years ago
3 likes

Have any of you been posting on the Tavistock Times site?

It will only increase the us and them mentality...

 

 

Those of us who have a little grasp of physics, and then them that don't.

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bike_food | 4 years ago
0 likes

Somebody buy this bellend a TV

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ChrisB200SX | 4 years ago
4 likes

You couldn't make it up. Ultimate Facepalm.

Gregg Manning doesn't have the sense he was born with.

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stonechat | 4 years ago
7 likes

Some people don’t realise how stupid they are making themselves look 

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David9694 | 4 years ago
3 likes

Play nicely if you do decide to email him.

 I think the point, with a very big such as it is, is that cars are in his view “normal”, and there’s something impersonal about that, less impactful (irony noted) than person on a bike - personal. 

I’d like to see car / bike stopping distances objectively tested - 25 or 30 mph feels very fast on a bike and can feel woefully slow driving.  I’m pretty sure, and this may be the perception of speed talking, the car stops better than would the bike. 

I’m growing weary of all the “if you can’t see my mirrors, I can’t see you”  type “warnings”. Actually, who’s problem is that - clearly mine as I’m the one who gets crushed.

 

 

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