Two cyclists have been killed in London over the past 36 hours, bringing the number of riders to have lost their lives in the capital this year to eight. A driver was arrested following the death of a man in Harrow in the early hours of Sunday morning and a woman was killed in an incident involving a tipper truck at Bank Junction in the City of London at rush hour this morning.
A spokeswoman for the London Ambulance Service told the London Evening Standard that paramedics were called to this morning’s incident at the junction of Threadneedle Street and Prince’s Street at 9am.
She added: "We sent a number of resources to the scene including an ambulance crew, a single responder in a car and London's Air Ambulance. We remain at the scene."
City of London Police confirmed in a tweet sent at 9.46am that the woman had died. In response, Twitter user Fiona Booth said: “I saw this happen on my cycle to work this morning. Heartbreaking.”
The victim is the eighth cyclist to have been killed in London so far this year, with large vehicles involved in all but one of those fatal crashes, the exception being the one that claimed the life of a 60-year-old man in Harrow at the weekend.
London Ambulance Service called the Metropolitan Police to the scene at Forward Drive at 0004 hours on Sunday 21 June.
The victim, a 60-year-old man named as Clifton James, had what police described as “serious head injuries” and was pronounced dead an hour later. His next-of-kin have been informed. James was cycling home from work in Harrow, and was just yards from home when the collision occurred.
The driver of the vehicle involved, a 31-year-old man, stopped at the scene of the incident and was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.
He has been bailed to a date in mid-September while police continue their investigation.
The incident is being handled by officers from the Serious Collision Investigation Unit at Alperton Traffic Garage and anyone who saw it or has information is asked to call police on 020 8991 9555 or the charity Crimestoppers, anonymously, on 0800 555111.
67 thoughts on “Two London cyclists killed in past 36 hours – tipper truck involved in 2nd incident”
RIP.
RIP.
(No subject)
🙁
Another left turning lorry…
Another left turning lorry… it’s predictable isn’t it!
How the hell does this keep
How the hell does this keep happening? I’ve been cycling in London since 1981 and when I had my first driving lesson in 1984, I’d only been out for about 10 mins when the instructor said “Do you ride a motorbike?” I said “No”, he then said “then you ride a bike”, I said “yes, how do you know?”, he replied, “You’ve got road sense, you know where the danger is.”
Cycling in London is a combat sport, and you have to be able to defend yourself and the best way to do that is never put yourself in harms way. Looking at the pictures on the BBC News website I cannot fathom how you end up on the inside of a huge truck at a junction. Use your judgement, stay back if you have the slightest worry that the lights will change, you can overtake it later. It’s no use keeping on saying its the trucks fault, it may well be, but they are bigger than us and that’s not going to change. Cyclists must take responsibility for their own safety and ride sensibly and defensively.
Martin1857 wrote: you have to
100% Spot on. Far too many people, regardless of transport type, taking too many risks in the name of getting where they’re going.
The amount of idiotic risks I see taken by people – and a lot of cyclists it has to be said – just on my short walk from London Bridge station to my office on Southwark Street makes me cringe. Just this morning I shouted at a cyclist who was turning the wrong way into a one way street despite the fact that it’s
A) Narrow,
B) Got a car and a lorry queuing in it already, and, oh yes
C) It’s a ONE WAY STREET! Dickhead.
Chancing your life for that small gap, that shortcut, or that red light – I really don’t get it.
The lorry well may have
The lorry well may have passed her and then turned across her. Not all these accidents are due to a cyclist riding up the side of a stationary vehicle.
nicmason wrote:The lorry well
I’m assuming from the photos the cyclist was turning left onto Threadneedle st. from Princes st, which has an ASL with an entry point at the left. There are no end of possibilities there where it could go wrong for the cyclist.
I don’t really see how endless talk of how cyclists need to stop going up the inside of trucks helps matters here when we don’t know what’s happened.
Here’s a clue – motorised
Here’s a clue – motorised traffic tends to be quicker accelerating away from junctions than your average cyclist.
Not much can be done if a truck half overtakes you and then turns left
Here’s a clue – motorised
Here’s a clue – motorised traffic tends to be quicker accelerating away from junctions than your average cyclist.
Not much can be done if a truck half overtakes you and then turns left
More deaths – what a
More deaths – what a surprise. Does this mean that simply telling vulnerable cyclists to “go careful” isn’t making a difference to the frequency at which they are run over by lorries? Who would have thought?
Perhaps the Met Police
Perhaps the Met Police should, in light of this latest horrible circumstance, start to get really serious about road traffic policing in London?
And if, as I suspect, extra resources are required, then any canny politician could make good by applying pressure on the Government to dramatically increase the funding of road traffic policing
If 8 people had been killed by terrorists in the UK this year, there would be a national outcry, and a substantial political action leading to an increased spend on counter measures.
When you look at the amount of money spent on ‘terrorism’ policing, and the actual data on incidents that have led to fatalities, its quite revealing.
I am not belittling the Police in any way, they do a very difficult job in difficult circumstances, with ever decreasing funding from Central Government; and having worked for British Transport Police I understand the profession.
But, let’s not mess about here; the Met need to ditch their occasional PR exercise ‘Operation Safeway’ (a.k.a. Operation “let’s stand around talking and not paying attention to the junction next to us”) and get really serious about cyclist, and pedestrian safety in London.
The groundswell of public opinion and support seen in recent “die in’s” and protests is a good indication that we have had enough of these regular incidents.
As ever, and too frequently, my sincere condolences to the families of the victims of both road traffic collison
I walked past the scene at
I walked past the scene at Bank this morning on my way to a meeting. The incident tent was at the rear offside of the truck, but the truck looked to have been driving through the junction, maybe bearing left, but with lots of space on the offside. It’s really unclear just from looking at the aftermath how the woman was hit by the truck perhaps another vehicle was involved or it stopped abruptly?
Nonetheless very sad news.
Another cyclist vs tipper
Another cyclist vs tipper truck fatality. This really has become some kind of hideous deja-vous.
I work in an area of Salford with a huge percentage of tipper trucks and whenever I see one, whether in front or behind me it fills me with dread.
There’s obviously something intrinsically wrong with the compatibility of cyclists and tipper trucks that needs address immediately, but it’s a matter of identifying whether it’s the visual capabilities of the driver, the positioning of cyclists or the driver’s attitude. I suspect a huge part of it is the latter.
Tipper truck drivers around me tend to drive with total disregard for speed limits, road layout (i.e. cycle lanes, or if the road narrows then they will just barge over into oncoming traffic) and red lights. Given recent cases you can’t even be sure they have a sodding license.
Another needless fatality – I wonder if we will ever see legislation to prevent this happening.
The Standard has some photo’s
The Standard has some photo’s of the scene at Bank (nothing gruesome thankfully):
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-seriously-injured-after-being-hit-by-tipper-truck-at-bank-junction-in-the-city-of-london-10335683.html
Quote:I walked past the scene
looking at the pictures on BBC – is the lorry not stopped in the pedestrian crossing area?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33223823
Must be Mad wrote:Quote:I
No it’s not. It’s a 6 way junction so rather complex but it’s basically just stopped mid junction it looked like it was driving straight or bearing left at maybe 15 degrees to go up Lombard/King William Street.
As I said it doesn’t change anything.
Another awful waste of life.
Another awful waste of life. I hate even walking across that junction.
From the position of the box junction and the photo in the Standard, you can see that the truck was driven from Princes Street towards Cornhill, so there was a left turn, not far off 45 degrees. We should probably not speculate further.
This satellite image shows the layout:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5134018,-0.0889237,113m/data=!3m1!1e3
No it’s not. It’s a 6 way junction so rather complex but it’s basically just stopped mid junction it looked like it was driving straight or bearing left at maybe 15 degrees to go up Lombard/King William Street.
As I said it doesn’t change anything.
Every time I see the broken
Every time I see the broken paving slab with the cycle stensil photo on here my heart sinks. RIP sir and madam.
So sorry to hear of both
So sorry to hear of both these fatalities, including yet another female cyclist v HGV incident.
Not the time to spout off, point fingers, blame victims but until better designs and safety equipment become mandatory, how about requiring all HGVs entering central London and other city centres to have a second driver / spotter and a proper concerted campaign to highlight the dangers of HGV blind spots and manouvering characteristics that not all cyclists, moped riders, pedestrians and even many car drivers appear to be aware of?
Sincere condolences.
M
Anyone who has used that
Anyone who has used that junction will know that it’s horrible and confusing and its easy for any cyclist to find themselves in trouble. Not because of their own positioning, but because its complex, there’s roads going off in all directions and its easy to become marooned in the wrong place when the lights change.
I don’t know what happened, but when I worked in the City I hated using that junction, and avoided it, especially if approaching from the West.
RIP to the lady, she’s a victim of somebody sitting on their hands. This shouldn’t be happening and something has to be done about these fucking construction vehicles.
ron611087 wrote:
RIP to the
Yep. Another month, another (female) cyclist killed by an HGV at a junction in central London.
How many more of these months must we endure before some action is actually taken?
If you actually want to do
If you actually want to do something to address the deaths of cyclists – and, don’t forget, pedestrians – read the possibilities here, where I say: “There is a range of solutions which require implementing, namely…:” See “HGV problem in context” in http://rdrf.org.uk/2015/06/04/scania-trucks-keeping-children-safe-whats-going-on-here/ .
Surely HGVs are present in
Surely HGVs are present in all major cities, or are there simply more in london because of the large amount of earth moving going on due to lax planning laws.
Perhaps the problem isn’t so much the lorries and their drivers (although it might be) but instead the number of them in comparison to other cities of similar type/size.
Surely HGVs are present in
Surely HGVs are present in all major cities, or are there simply more in london because of the large amount of earth moving going on due to lax planning laws.
Perhaps the problem isn’t so much the lorries and their drivers (although it might be) but instead the number of them in comparison to other cities of similar type/size.
GREGJONES wrote:Surely HGVs
The construction vehicle problem in London is exacerbated by the fact that they are banned from the city at night (I’m not sure start of the start & end period). The reasoning is that they are a disturbance to City residents (yes I know, there are none). This is the inverse of Paris, which bans HGV’s during peak periods.
The inability of construction vehicles to travel through London at night means that they put greater pressure in the roads during the day, and particularly during peak periods.
ron611087 wrote:GREGJONES
The issue in London is also that the city is growing at a fast pace, more so than any other European city. The population is expected to top 10 million by 2030 I think it is. The pace of construction does not look likely to halt. What is needed is more protection for vulnerable road users.
Yes, London is growing
Yes, London is growing quickly, and there’s lots of construction in the city. That’s not an excuse for using dump trucks that are known to be unsafe by design, and that are known to be frequently flouting existing road rules.
It’s also worth pointing out that most construction in the square mile is within spitting distance of the Thames, and should be using the river for bulk transport instead of blocking the road.
Finally, if the safety regulations applying to building sites were extended to their transport needs…..
Looking at those photos in
Looking at those photos in the Evening Standard one thing that strikes me is the incredible number of people and resources that went into trying to save the poor lady. Well done and thank you to all who tried to save her life and RIP to the lady in question.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-seriously-injured-after-being-hit-by-tipper-truck-at-bank-junction-in-the-city-of-london-10335683.html
+1 for Kadinkski’s comment
+1 for Kadinkski’s comment
There are numerous types on
There are numerous types on HGV’s driven through London each day, but the overwhelming majority of cyclist fatalities are involved with Tipper Trucks.
Something needs to be done about this asap to understand why its tipper trucks and what can be done to reduce the death toll.
Is it because they are equipped with poor safety features? Are they over powerful and manoeuvrable for a vehicle with so many blind spots? Or is it down to poor drivers?
Scoob_84 wrote:
Is it because
Probably a fatal combination of all of the above.
Scoob_84 wrote:There are
There are several reasons. The drivers are under a lot of pressure to make deliveries quickly within tight schedules. Because the trucks work on construction sites, they get a lot more wear and tear than other HGVs and require more maintenance, which they don’t always receive.
Not all of the firms running tipper truck fleets operate responsibly (which is why there are so many repeat offenders involved in incidents). Tipper truck drivers also tend not to be the most skilled of HGV operators. For this last point, compare and contrast the safety record of the drivers of the big artics making deliveries for big companies like M&S or Tesco or Stobart or or Sainsburys as these firms basically employ the cream of the crop and the trucks are very rarely involved in crashes, despite the huge distances they cover/year.
@arfa
very apt comments
and I
@arfa
very apt comments
and I do not like swearing, but when the f*ck is this issue going to be taken seriously?
how many more need to die before someone in authority (who can make a real difference, not us ranting on a bicycle internet forum) really steps up and makes this happen?
will it take the death of the child or spouse of a politician, a police officer or executive of a transport / construction company, before something gets done?
hampstead_bandit
Yes, it will.
Politicians, the police, and the executives of transport or construction companies do not care whether you and I live or die. We are just numbers on a sheet of paper in a filing cabinet somewhere else than where they are, or the modern spreadsheet equivalent in an email attachment that they didn’t read.
In fact it is probably worse than that. The death, on a bicycle, under the wheels of a lorry, of a member of the family of a cabinet minister or elected senior council representative… this would make London as safe as Utrecht, Assen or Groningen within 20-30 years, with the rest of the country catching up within 50 years. The police would come down like a ton of bricks on companies operating dangerous lorries within 2 years.
Without that, London will never be as safe as anywhere in the Netherlands has been since 1980. The cops and courts will continue to not give the first sh1t about whether people on bikes live or die.
severs1966 wrote:
In fact it
I’m not sure. Admittedly this[1] was the partner of a child of a senior police officer, but it just seems that the legal and policing structures are fossilized into an ineffective state: mostly for the reason that changing them is perceived as costly (both monetarily and behaviouraly).
Once a large body of people have been trained to accept motor vehicle usage as normal and have constructed their lives around it it’s going to be hard to get change.
1. http://road.cc/content/news/30899-police-cctv-error-implicated-collapse-cyclist-death-trial
http://www.standard.co.uk/new
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/100-hgvs-taken-off-roads-in-londons-square-mile-in-crackdown-on-dangerous-lorries-10336095.html
“Almost 100 HGVs have been taken off roads in the Square Mile in the first month of a new unit to crack down on dangerous lorries.
The City of London police’s commercial vehicle unit, funded by Transport for London, stopped 136 vehicles in May and removed 95.”
… That’s almost 70%
“The London-wide industrial HGV task force, set up in 2013, stopped 199 vehicles in May, with *more than four fifths not meeting the required standards*. As a result 61 fixed penalty notices were issued and seven vehicles were seized. A further 24 vehicles were seized by the Met’s commercial vehicle unit.”
81%+ not up to scratch.
Yet another Tipper truck v
Yet another Tipper truck v female cyclist tragedy.
It is getting ridiculous now.
There isn’t going to be safe infrastructure throught London anytime soon.
It is good that more women are cycling.
Therefore, unless we are prepared to put up with this state of affairs, we need a campaign to remind cyclists NOT to pay undue attention to road markings, and a bigger one to get tipper truck drivers to pay attention to cyclists.
We need much more information
We need much more information on the incident before reaching any conclusions. It is just incredibly sad to see another young life end so tragically. Tipper trucks kill with alarming regularity and if authorities are just going to look the other way, they owe it to novices to inform them that if you end up on the inside of a tipper and it turns over you, you are unlikely to survive.
I just find it disgraceful that these vehicles which we know are unfit for safety purposes (witness the changing places “safety” program) are permitted to carve their way through urban rush hours. Added in to this, I saw data suggesting half of these vehicles pulled for spot safety checks failed them. To me this says the industry doesn’t take its responsibilities seriously and far heavier penalties are needed to change behaviour and prevent as many deaths as possible. So very sad. I am sure this young lady leaves a terrible void behind for her loved ones to come to terms with and change is so very badly overdue.
@hampstead_bandit I despair
@hampstead_bandit I despair just like you. Short of blockading the HSE offices on Southwark Bridge I am at a loss.
Ironically these offices are just next to one of the few cycle lanes physically segregating cyclists from the tipper trucks prevalent on that route, presumably so the HSE folk don’t get to see the results of their inaction.
arfa wrote:@hampstead_bandit
It is not the HSE that is responsible for investigating Road Traffic incidents. It is a Police matter.
It is not the HSE that is
[/quote]
It is not the HSE that is responsible for investigating Road Traffic incidents. It is a Police matter.[/quote]
I am fully aware of this. However the HSE do oversee site and operator safety and their remit must be broadened out to weed out cowboy operators and practices. To argue the general public does not deserve anything close to the level of protection on site is unacceptable. A blind eye has been turned for far too long.
They should release every
They should release every Police investigation into the public. A small gesture to bring clarity to each tragedy.
its getting mainstream
its getting mainstream coverage, the Evening Standard is read by a huge number of daily readers including stakeholders, decision makers, politicans and whatnot, so hopefully something positive can come of these terrible headline, to stop it happening so frequently
Following on from
Following on from YorkshireMike’s comments wasn’t there a programme on tipper lorries a few years back which showed how many pickups and drop offs they did each day and how drivers were being overworked by a few unscrupulous companies? Combine an over stuffed time table with lorries that are over powered when empty and it’s little wonder someone isn’t getting run over every day.
Our local skip firm drivers are terrible. They scare me when I see them in the rear view mirror when driving – let alone when I hear that clang of an empty skip lorry behind me when I’m on the bike.
MercuryOne wrote:Following on
Yes indeed, skippers and tippers. The crash statistics for these two categories of HGVs were identified as being terrible 20 years ago or more. And what has been done? Well, nothing really.
@arfa
the comment about the
@arfa
the comment about the HSE overseeing safe practice on construction sites is interesting.
Does this mean that a contractor driving an unroadworthy vehicle onto a construction site is in breach of contract?
Is there a legal requirement for site vehicles to be roadworthy?
(as they use roads to get onto, and off the site, unless its a specific site vehicle like a bulldozer operating strictly on a landfill site)
So are only hope for an
So are only hope for an improvement of this horrific situation is for Boris to end under the wheels of a tipper truck then somebody might do something about it.
I can full get full get behind this idea on so many levels, come on Boris, take one for the team and all that.
@hampstead_bandit
HSE Law is
@hampstead_bandit
HSE Law is pretty broad and varied on site but as an example there are a number of duties to protect the public outlined here:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/safetytopics/publicprotection.htm
It is notable that there.is a duty to protect the public from dangers arising from vehicles entering and leaving the site. Thereafter the HSE legislation washes its hands. The amendment and broadening of this legislation to protect the public from cowboy tipper trucks is well overdue in my humble opinion
What I don’t understand is
What I don’t understand is how Health & Safety legislation works? I commute past a large building site in Victoria every day. There are always 10 people in hi-vis jackets standing at the entrance to the site monitoring the gate. When a vehicle comes e.g., Tipper Truck, sirens are sounded, all work stops and the 10 people guide the vehicle into the site till it parks.
Yet, that same vehicle has just been driven through Central London to get to the site with the driver probably juggling a mobile phone, satnav and a coffee.
I work near a quarry where
I work near a quarry where many of these tipper trucks pick up their gravel & i know from experience there is a lot of poor driving. I have been actively bullied (whilst driving an SUV) by some of these drivers a number of times. Plus, as many paid by the load this contributes to bad practice & speeding/lack of attention.
One of these poor victims was featured on ‘an hour to save your life’ a couple of weeks ago & it was unbelievable the efforts the ambulance medics put in to try save her life, chapeau to them and :
BASTARDS to the crap drivers, legislators, etc etc responsible for so much HGV traffic on our city roads, especially in rush hour.
As reiterated by many many others STOP TALKING AND GET SOMETHING(S) ACTUALLY CHANGED
Site health and safety has
Site health and safety has reached beyond the fences of construction sites inLondon in many cases. Contractors and sub contractors working for TfL and many other taxpayer funded organisations are required to ensure they manage their Work Related Road Risk. I.e. They are responsible for the safety of vehicles to and from sites. Have a look at Clocs, the TfL initiative developed to manage WRRR on projects like Crossrail. It focuses on ensuring drivers of tippers have all received training on Vulnerable users and that vehicles have additional mirrors, side rails etc. If vehicles and drivers don’t adhere to these standards they are turned away from site.
@philbo
any knowledge
@philbo
any knowledge experience of FORS (I see this sticker on many HGV operating in London)?
No idea if its actually effective, as I often see FORS labelled HGV paying little attention to red lights and ASL in London 🙁
And then of course we have the smaller vehicles like this Veolia / LB Tower Hamlets refuse truck, which was driving quite freely down CS3 after the driver had caused a female cyclist to crash, told other cyclists to eff off when they took him to task..he then got back in the vehicle with his refuse crew and carried on driving
and other commercial vehicles like internet shopping delivery vans, who just seem to park wherever they like, even if its in a segregated cycle lane
Philbo – if you see behaviour
Philbo – if you see behaviour which you think worth complaining about involving vehicle with a FORS sticker, you can complain to FORS.
We were involved with a campaign re-misues of warning stickers (where complaining has so far not worked http://rdrf.org.uk/2015/05/06/cyclists-stay-back-stickers-is-transport-for-london-doing-what-it-can-to-get-wrongly-used-ones-removed/ ) , but see what happens when you complain anyway – the details are here: http://rdrf.org.uk/2015/03/05/cyclists-stay-back-stickers-something-you-can-do/ . They have 28 working days – nearly 6 weeks to answer, so no breath holding.
Do let us know how you get on…
Of the 8 deaths in London
Of the 8 deaths in London there have been 6 females and two male. This is not representatative of the number of cyclists on the roads from my fairly frequent visits to London. We do need to solve the large vehicle issue but also why are females so much more likely to be hit?
It may be males are more forceful / keep to middle of the lane and not allow themselves to be boxed in? If deaths were in proportion to male riders then 5 or 6 more females would be alive today (I accept that is a bit simplistic).
I do cycle in cities very much as where I live I can use good bike paths.
On the open road I would rather take my chances with big HGV’s then the frankly dangerous white van man who thinks he is the next Lewis Hamilton but without the skill. The stunts they pull………
Blackhound wrote:Of the 8
You make a good point blackhound, It would suggest that riding style has a bearing on our safety.
I’m not sure exactly what the number is this year, but the overwhelming majority of deaths are also caused by tipper trucks. There are loads of different types of trucks being driven through London each day, but its tipper trucks doing all the killing.
From my experience with tipper trucks is that when turning left they take a wide arc, which if they’re not indicating can sometimes suggest to other road users that they are going straight ahead. When they do then turn, they turn very quickly, far quicker than you would expect for such a large vehicle which catches people out.
Further to that, some (not all) of the drivers behave like absolute thugs on the road, just like the stereotypical white van man.
Scoob_84 wrote:Blackhound
You make a good point blackhound, It would suggest that riding style has a bearing on our safety.
I’m not sure exactly what the number is this year, but the overwhelming majority of deaths are also caused by tipper trucks. There are loads of different types of trucks being driven through London each day, but its tipper trucks doing all the killing.
From my experience with tipper trucks is that when turning left they take a wide arc, which if they’re not indicating can sometimes suggest to other road users that they are going straight ahead. When they do then turn, they turn very quickly, far quicker than you would expect for such a large vehicle which catches people out.
Further to that, some (not all) of the drivers behave like absolute thugs on the road, just like the stereotypical white van man.— Blackhound
Tipper trucks have a large turning circle.
OldRidgeback wrote:Tipper
So do articulated lorries, coaches, and the new (Boris?) buses. They still have to get the tractor unit well clear of the kerb before they can initiate they turn. Is this really the issue?
Pub bike wrote:OldRidgeback
Bus routes are worked out so that the buses don’t have to swing out too much when making a turn. You should try driving a four axle tipper truck (of road of course) it really gives you an understanding as to how big a turning circle they need and how large the blind spots are.
There are solutions to make them safer and alert drivers to the presence of vulnerable road users and as pointed out elsewhere, at around £600 a time it’s not expensive. Some companies, the responsible ones, fit this kit but most don’t. Maybe it would be easier to require all tipper trucks to have the kit to be used in London and for all tipper truck drivers working in London to have had their licences checked properly and to have undergone cycle/vulnerable road user training.
London is expanding fast and the flow of tipper trucks into the city is not going to stop as the pace of construction is high. Ensuring those trucks in operation are safe can be done. Some firms have shown how. It’s more a question of political will.
Surely political lobbying is
Surely political lobbying is the answer to get the law changed?
As one of the earlier posters pointed out it would make a lot of sense to change the law so that HGV’s could only drive in the City at night.
unclebadger wrote:Surely
Trouble with that, its highly disruptive to those HGVs who operate safely and also the economy. You rarely ever hear of a supermarket delivery lorries killing cyclists, or long articulated lorries etc
I respect your POV but I very
I respect your POV but I very much doubt that Paris’ economy is suffering due to great big trucks being forced to drive at night.
London’s and presumably other cities streets are already suffering from massive overcrowding so it would massively ease the congestion to force the freight and heavy haulage to travel at night. It would have the added benefit of keeping commuting cyclists and HGV’s apart.
unclebadger wrote:I respect
I agree with your solution if it were to ban tipper trucks from central london at peak hours, but you’d be hard pushed to present an argument for other HGV types which rarely cause accidents in comparison.
Scoob_84 wrote:unclebadger
I agree with your solution if it were to ban tipper trucks from central london at peak hours, but you’d be hard pushed to present an argument for other HGV types which rarely cause accidents in comparison.— unclebadger
I see no difference at all in the vehicle type, one bloomin big HGV truck is the same as another when your being forced into the gutter by it as far as I can tell.
I would take great comfort in knowing that the supermarket still had a full supply of Pasties and Crisps as I watched my leg being amputated from between the back wheels of an Articulated lorry – NOT!
I respect your POV but I very
I respect your POV but I very much doubt that Paris’ economy is suffering due to great big trucks being forced to drive at night.
London’s and presumably other cities streets are already suffering from massive overcrowding so it would massively ease the congestion to force the freight and heavy haulage to travel at night. It would have the added benefit of keeping commuting cyclists and HGV’s apart.
With regard to cycle survival
With regard to cycle survival in London, on a bike you do have the option to get off and walk/push. Also route choice is another way of optimising your survival. There are several routes I would always avoid, (Bethnal Green Rd on market day for example), but the beauty of London is that there are always quieter and less frenetic choices available. There are also some junctions I just get a bad feeling about and if I can’t avoid them, then I will sometimes just get off and cross like a pedestrian and then remount on the other side.
I don’t know if it was the
I don’t know if it was the case in any of the London deaths this year, but as a daily London commuter one of the biggest dangers I face is cars and lorries not indicating and then turning left. As a cyclist you have to assume that someone may turn left without indicating but the volume of traffic and the number of potential turns makes this very difficult to manage, so inevitably you tend to rely on vehicles using indicators as they should. I think a significant public awareness campaign to encourage people to use indicators in good time (not as you start to turn).
andynic wrote:As a cyclist
Using the same route everyday I have become familiar with where motorists usually do this.
My experience is that it is more common when a motorist has joined my route into the city from a side road from the right and is then turning left at the next available opportunity.
A possible explanation is that roads tend to radiate out from the centre of cities, so a motorist entering from the right may be trying to drive radially around the city so may be more likely to turn left immediately afterwards.
Whilst indicators are helpful (except on scooters where they seem to get left on!) there are other behaviours (for example even slight drifting and the angle relative to the road) that can suggest that the motorist is turning left soon. I try to use all available cues to make a judgement. With buses it is very easy because the routes are fixed, you get to know where the stops are, and if the bus doesn’t normally stop there it is possible to look to see if anyone is standing up in the bus by the doors waiting to get off. With other vehicles much more caution is needed.
Of course this goes against the article here a while back that suggested we should vary our routes…