Shimano has launched a brand new version of its 105 groupset – the most popular road groupset worldwide – that features an 11-speed drivetrain and, says Shimano, improved braking power.
The new 5800 series 105 features technology that has trickled down from Shimano’s high-level Dura-Ace and Ultegra groups.
“The main thing about 105 is that it’s now 11-speed,” said Shimano’s UK brand manager Mark Greshon at the UK launch. “With it being 11-speed it brings many of the functions and features that you get with both Ultegra and Dura-Ace to a much wider range of riders.”
So, 105 follows in the footsteps of Dura-Ace and Ultegra (and groupsets from Campagnolo and SRAM) in going 11-speed. Shimano has redesigned the derailleurs and shift levers and included polymer coated cables to replicate the light shifting of its higher level groupsets – and, judging by the demo components available at the launch, it really is noticeably lighter than previously but still with a very definite click engagement.

Shimano says, “The shift levers have a compact grip which provides more comfort and control during a ride. The lever can be customised for different hand sizes with a 10mm screw-type reach adjust.

“The front derailleur has a longer link arm combined with a new spring mechanism. Also, the rear derailleur has a new spring mechanism and cable pitch, which provides robust adjustability.”

That’s the official line. The four-arm crank has trickled down from Dura-Ace too, with the uneven spacing between those arms that some people like and some people can’t stomach. Visuals aside, Shimano says that this gives the best transfer of power and balance between lightweight and stiffness.
This design also means there’s just one bolt circle diameter (BCD) for compact and traditional double chainsets. In other words, one crankarm fits all chainring sizes.

The standard chainset combos will be 53/39T, 52/36T and 50/34T. If you want to swap from 53/39T to 50/34T, for example, you can do that using the same crankarm – you can just change the chainrings rather than the whole chainset.

There will also be a non-series regular five-arm chainset.

The 11-speed cassette is available with 12-25 tooth and 11-28-tooth sprockets, as before, but there’s also a new wide-ranging 11-32-tooth option.

A short cage derailleur will handle sprockets up to 28T, but if you want to go to 32-tooth you’ll need the long cage derailleur.

Shimano treat the chain with a Sil-Tec surface-plating technology that they say makes it run smoother and wear longer in all conditions.
Shimano also say that they have improved the braking power by 10% over that of the previous 5700 series 105 groupset… and we love a statistic around these parts!

Shimano attribute most of that increased power to the new symmetrical dual-pivot brake caliper. Those calipers have a higher arch so they are compatible with tyres up to 28c – and there’s a general trend towards increased tyre size on the road these days.

The brakes are also available in a direct mount version (BR-5810), direct mount being an increasingly popular choice on road bikes as well as time trial bikes.
The 5800 Series 105 groupset will be available in black and silver from June. We don’t have prices on any of the components yet.

Shimano have an 11-speed flat-bar shifter that you can use with the new 105 components if you like, or with Ultegra or Dura-Ace for that matter.
Shimano has also introduced road hydraulic disc brakes that you can use with an 11-speed mechanical groupset like new 105. Check out our other story for all the details on that.
If you were hoping that Shimano would roll their Di2 technology down from Dura-Ace and Ultegra to 105, sorry, but that's not happening – not for the time being, at least. Electronic shifting will doubtless filter further down the road groupset hierarchy at some stage, but not yet.
Shimano say that 5800 Series 105 will be available from June.




































88 thoughts on “Shimano 105 goes 11-speed”
Any idea when it will be in
Any idea when it will be in the shops, and any idea on the weight difference with Ultegra?
Oh, and are those smaller Ultegra sized hoods?
Why?
The best geared bike
Why? :/
The best geared bike I ever had was 7 speed, my 10 speed stuff has no great advantage, wears quicker, is more expensive to maintain and needs finer setting up, 11 speed I assume will just wear out even quicker for no real advantage, other than showing off!
No triple chainset proposed?
No triple chainset proposed?
At launch, it was suggested Ultegra would have one later. But looks like that’s not going to happen now. 52/36 and an 11–32 appears to be the solution.
Perhaps the non-series chainset will include a triple? It’s a good idea anyway, for customers who want 11-speed but don’t want the new groupset’s appearance.
john.berry wrote:Why?
The
I agree. I’d consider an 11-speed 105 to be a retrograde step for all the reasons you state. Pointless, expensive and more hassle.
Joeinpoole wrote:john.berry
I agree. I’d consider an 11-speed 105 to be a retrograde step for all the reasons you state. Pointless, expensive and more hassle.— john.berry
Lay off man, we wants to spend our moneys!
Nice to see some of these
Nice to see some of these changes coming to 105 so quickly. I have DA and Ultegra on my main road bikes, but maybe now a new winter bike might be kitted with 105…
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS AND MECHANICAL HYDRAULIC LEVERS?!?!?!??! <:P <:P <:P <:P <:P
This is the one the
This is the one the competitors fear!
About time Shimano. Funny
About time Shimano. Funny how the mighty Shimano make you wait for top end refinements yet Campagnolo can introduce up dates across the whole range at once.
Perfect timing by Shimano so this up grade misses all the new 2014 bike. I bet also that 105 cassettes are not compatiable with current 10 speed cassette bodies so you have to fork out for new wheels.
Oh dear. Now I’ll need to
Oh dear. 🙁 Now I’ll need to get hold of some 5700 shifters rather quickly, or I will be stuck with my Tiagra shifters until I can upgrade the whole drivetrain.
5700 bits should still be
5700 bits should still be floating around for a fair old while, not least because new bikes with 5800 fitted won’t really be out until late in the year. Ultegra 6800 has been out for almost a year, but there’s still plenty of 6700 bits to be had. Indeed, it means that the prices have dropped.
105 with hydraulic discs
105 with hydraulic discs sounds very, very exciting for winter bikes and CX. I can’t wait to try it out.
Now I can afford to buy
Now I can afford to buy another cassestte for my race wheels!
Wonder how it fairs in
Wonder how it fairs in weight? Ultegra 6700 was heavier than most of the 3rd tier groups from competitors (Apex, Centaur), don’t know how much lighter 6800 is, and if 5800 will compete at all.
I knew this would happen the
I knew this would happen the second I bought a bike with old-style 105… :”(
having been using 11spd
having been using 11spd ultegra over the winter, i’m interested to know why an 11spd groupset is ‘more hassle’ – it’s been no more hassle than a 10spd or a 9spd groupset, that I have on other bikes. no harder to set up, no harder to maintain.
As for ‘expensive’, 11spd Ultegra was cheaper than 10spd Ultegra. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same was true here. As of now, we don’t know, so the point is kind of moot.
Pointless? If you like. I don’t think innovation is pointless, because I see groupsets getting better and better for less and less money. I kind of like that. Your mileage may vary.
Triple chainset: we’ve had no indication that there will be one, in terms of range a compact and wide-range cassette is the same, i know some people prefer a triple for the closer ratios. We’ll ask.
Dave Atkinson wrote:Triple
Please do. 5700 still has the triple option and, as you say, Dave, it’s handy if you prefer close ratios such as a 12–23 with the useful 18T middle. Some just find the 16T gap between rings too much; others want the 39T ring come what may.
Dave Atkinson wrote:having
I don’t really consider adding an extra cog to be “innovation”. Would a 12-speed cassette be even better? Would a 15 or 20-speed cassette send you into raptures? ‘More’ is not always ‘better’. In this case it just adds weight and fragility for no real gain, at least from my point of view.
Personally, having come back into cycling after a few decades out, I’m astonished to find that I now have to replace my chain every 1500 miles or so (and have been recommended to replace the cassette at the same time too!). That’s on a supposedly rugged ‘cyclo-cross’ bike. Honestly, in the 70’s, running a 5-speed cassette with a double chain-ring I would barely even inspect the chain before 5000 miles were up. Cassettes were good for 10K at least.
Having been delighted to buy an amazing “27-speed” bike a few years ago I’d now happily trade some of those gears for more robustness, less maintenance (and less weight too).
Joeinpoole wrote:I don’t
certainly i think there’s a bit of the ‘more is better’ mentality about it, the same way there is with resolution in digital cameras. there’s a limit to what’s useful.
but to hark back to the ‘golden’ days of five speed cassettes? would you trade the precision and ease of use of a modern groupset for the longevity of a five-speed setup? because I sure wouldn’t. you can still get five-speed stuff easily, and it’s cheap as chips. I’m guessing you’re not running it on any of your bikes though, even though you could. I’ve got a five speed, down-tube-shifter bike in the shed. It’s fun to ride, and it looks nice. but every day? when i can use STIs? not on your life.
When i say innovation, i’m not really talking about the number of cogs. i’ve written at length about Ultegra at the launch (http://road.cc/content/news/82237-updated-prices-shimano-unveil-ultegra-6800-11spd-groupset) and in the review (http://road.cc/content/review/114669-shimano-ultegra-6800-groupset) and i’ll reiterate what i said there: the eleventh cog is pretty incidental in the great scheme of things but the improvements in shifting and braking are immediately noticeable and very welcome. and they’re coming to 105 too, so that’s a good thing in my book. plus now you can have hydraulic discs. happy days.
Dave Atkinson wrote:
but to
When I started riding my bikes had 5 or 6 speed freewheels; I still remember the first time I had a bike with a cassette and freehub, thinking wow this is the future!
But I never saw a 5 speed cassette 😉
Pedantry over – last time i bought a 6 speed road freewheel (to get a higher gear on a small wheeled bike) it certainly wasn’t easy – it was a lucky ebay find, in fact. But wider spaced freewheels are indeed cheap as chips.
Dave Atkinson wrote:When i
Dave, I am pretty sure that most people with 10 speed drivetrains would be comfortable with all of this – as long as Shimano said that there would also be a 10 speed groupset with some of the same benefits.
Hopefully the recent introduction of Claris means Shimano is still looking to trickle some of the benefits down as far as the perfectly serviceable and inexpensive 8 and 9 speed drivetrains.
Joeinpoole wrote:Dave
I don’t really consider adding an extra cog to be “innovation”. Would a 12-speed cassette be even better? Would a 15 or 20-speed cassette send you into raptures? ‘More’ is not always ‘better’. In this case it just adds weight and fragility for no real gain, at least from my point of view.
Personally, having come back into cycling after a few decades out, I’m astonished to find that I now have to replace my chain every 1500 miles or so (and have been recommended to replace the cassette at the same time too!). That’s on a supposedly rugged ‘cyclo-cross’ bike. Honestly, in the 70’s, running a 5-speed cassette with a double chain-ring I would barely even inspect the chain before 5000 miles were up. Cassettes were good for 10K at least.
Having been delighted to buy an amazing “27-speed” bike a few years ago I’d now happily trade some of those gears for more robustness, less maintenance (and less weight too).— Dave Atkinson
Well Shimano’s engineers must have worked really hard to manage to add “more weight and fragility”; those Japanese really don’t know what they’re doing.
Why, when reading these comments, am I reminded of the “What have the Romans ever done for us” scene from The Life Of Brian?!!
Dave Atkinson wrote:
Triple
I now have a double compact with a wide ranging cassette and it can be difficult finding the right gear sometimes. It’s generally easier to find the sweet spot using the small ring and the high gears on the cassette. But thats cross-chaining.
If I wanted a wide range of gears I would go for a triple with a narrow ranging cassette.
earth wrote:Dave Atkinson
Yeah, i like triples (esp 52/42/30) with a 12-25 too. But Shimano – and everyone else – are obviously just pushing compacts now. Hence the 11 tooth cassettes. I can see the logic that the same overall gear range is covered, but the 34 ring is very (too) small for general riding. And it takes some effort pushing a 50 tooth up a rise.
I see Dave’s comment above about pros leaving 42 tooth rings behind years ago, but it is a shame as that is a great size for general riding. Also, the old 52/42 had a manageable gap between chain rings. 16 teeth is a bit of a big change for my liking.
I can’t help but feel that the chain ring and cassette combos still aren’t right. 53/39 is only really suitable for flat runs or racing, 52/36 is a decent all rounder (with a big ish casette out back) but suffers from a 16 tooth gap at the front and a 52/11 is an enormous gear most mortals would barely ever use, 50/34 is a bit pants for rolling terrain as you basically have the choice of pushing the 50 or riding in what is effectively a granny ring.
Maybe the 46/36 cyclocross chainset is the most useful of them all?
I agree. I like triples
I agree. I like triples because of the 39 ring, which is good for rolling terrain and when it’s windy. I still need the bail out ring though as I can’t do everything in the 39. 50 to 34 is a bit of a jump
I’m thinking maybe 50/36 with a 32 cassette, but then you lose out on nice closely spaced ratios of a 12-25…
However, triples seem to be going the way of the dodo, so I’m just going to have to get use to it.
Also 50/36 doesn’t seem to be
Also 50/36 doesn’t seem to be offered by Shimano, although of course you can buy a separate 36 ring and fit it to a compact, but it drives up the cost.
Chris James wrote:Also 50/36
yeah, that does seem odd when it’s a simple option to add
Chris James wrote:Maybe the
Have come to a similar conclusion myself.
Like MrC I like my triple because I find the 39t middle ring ideal for steady riding.
For those asking: Sora dropped the thumbshifter when it went 9 speed (Tiagra with a new badge?)
http://road.cc/content/review/100555-shimano-sora-3500-groupset
and in 2013 Shimano announced the same has happened to 8 speed with the Claris groupset.
http://road.cc/content/news/77271-shimano-unveil-new-claris-groupset
Yes, most of us who used to
Yes, most of us who used to use a road triple misses the sensible gearing. From my 80s era 6203 with its 30, 45, 50 gearing to 6500s 30, 42, 52 they were immensely useful to us non professional riders. I went to the compact set up as “everybody can’t be wrong” in this choice of gearing; and have found myself really missing that 42, 44, or 45 tooth up front. And it is noteworthy-when single speed road riders have to pick ONE single ring up front, they inevitably pick a 44 or 46 tooth!
Still HATE that chainset
Still HATE that chainset mind… :&
Very interesting. Riding
Very interesting. Riding Ultegra 6700 at the moment. If I buy a new bike I would want a groupset as good or better than the current one I am riding. Ignoring the 11 speed element, is there much to choose between Ultegra 6700 and 105 5800?
Sniffer wrote: Ignoring the
I doubt it. I have run 6700 and 5700 side by side and other than weight mine performed identically. I’ve said it before but I defy anyone to tell the difference in a blind test. I’d be amazed if 5800 was a leap forward over 5700. But I’m happy to be amazed.
Very pleased about this, and
Very pleased about this, and especially with the hydro/mech shifters announced too, I’m not sure the weight of the groupsets really adds up to that big a difference, especially if you can get some lighter wheels by saving on 105 over ultegra etc, probably makes a more noticeable difference.
Glad they still do the shiny silver colourscheme rather than going down the grey ultegra route, it may look a bit modern compared to say the silver Athena chainset, but I like it, hopefully the prices come in at a reasonable level (plus the cost of 5700 shifters dropping as a result would be good to upgrade the tiagra ones too)
I run 9sp. I use about, say,
I run 9sp. I use about, say, 3-4 gears…when riding/training…
10/11sp. blocks have reduced the choice of sprocket combo’s of consumers of Shimano…
Do Manu.s not offer 42 rings on their chainsets…I dont live in Wales or Scotland.
Whatever happened to 170mm cranks ??? – instead of; compact cranks – another money making idea.
Compact cranks are a con – well and truly – ok you spin but they wear out faster – KMC recently done research that backs this up.
STi units smaller – thats a retrograde step if ever their was one.
Shimano chains are well known for being BAD/Failing.
They also used to index GREAT but now they are machined to such tolerances that when they wear after NOT LONG its ‘replace time’..
Lastly; when are Shimano to do electric shifting on 105 = thats when its’ll be MEGA-HEADLINE time !
> 10/11sp. blocks have
> 10/11sp. blocks have reduced the choice of sprocket combo’s of consumers of Shimano…
really? currently you can get 11-23, 11-25, 12-25, 11-28 and 11-32 in ultegra. 105 will probably be the same. i guess if you *must* have a 26T or 27T big sprocket you’re out of luck, but they seem to be covering the bases okay to me
> Do Manu.s not offer 42 rings on their chainsets…I dont live in Wales or Scotland.
Generally no, and haven’t since the late 1990s, at least not as standard. Pros left the 42t behind a long time ago
> Whatever happened to 170mm cranks ??? – instead of; compact cranks – another money making idea.
you can have 170mm cranks in the new four-arm spider if you want
> Compact cranks are a con – well and truly – ok you spin but they wear out faster – KMC recently done research that backs this up.
no-one’s forcing you to buy a compact, least of all shimano with the four-arm design that allows you to swap rings without changing the spider
> STi units smaller – thats a retrograde step if ever their was one.
i don’t agree – i find the new shape much better, and i have hands like shovels. and they’re certainly better for people with smaller hands.
> Shimano chains are well known for being BAD/Failing.
have to say, i tend to buy other brands when i’m replacing. I don’t like the snap pin joining method either, i find split links much better
yenrod wrote:I run 9sp. I use
This doesn’t make any sense.
yenrod wrote:I run 9sp. I use
An overly critical person might say that smacks of either poor training or a very dull parcours….
Not massively, and the extra gears can actually increase the usability. You can still pick and mix individual cogs for the top 7 (10-speed) or 6 (11-speed) on Shimano, use SRAM (10/11 speed) or even Miche or Campagnolo (11-speed).
….
170mm cranks are still about, as are 165mm to a lesser degree. What, pray, was the point you were trying to make here ?
A con ? Seriously ? What are you on about….. and as for wear, yes – because each tooth gets more use as cadence increases the wear rate goes up. Is that a reason to choose a groupset ? Average cadence appears to be going up these days anyway – perhaps you could ask folk to pedal more slowly ?
Rubbish, entirely horses for courses.
Not really – there are better chains out there to be sure, but Shimano aren’t “BAD”.
Yeah… whatever… probably a government plot under mind control of the aliens….
That would actually be a nice thing, modulo price, particularly for the casual users, commuters etc.
I think something has to give
I think something has to give when cramming more gears into the same space. Partly achieved by making the wheel dish worse for 11 speed hubs.
If the durability of 10 & 11 speed chainrings & sprockets has been maintained by extra hardening and other innovations, could this be then applied to make 9 speed more durable?
Not going to happen I guess…
Quote:Whatever happened to
Ehhh…?
Does 11sp require a different
Does 11sp require a different freehub to a 9 or 10?
I like 11 speed as you can
I like 11 speed as you can have a really wide range of ratios that are still sensibly spaced. If you want to run an 11-32 (and in Wales I’m not too proud to admit that I needed to in order to keep a decent cadence) 11 speed means you can have the spacing of an 11-28 cassette with an extra emergency bail out cog. I think that has real value to those who don’t insist on riding up hills in that agonising, knee-detonating, slow motion 30rpm grind you often see on sportives.
awww yeah for hydro/mech
awww yeah for hydro/mech STis
yah boo sucks for 11 speed, but that part’s easier to macgyver into a cheaper/more practical set-up (after letting the first cassette wear out).
Been playing with 6800 lately
Been playing with 6800 lately and I have to say that I am very impressed.
The design of the new lever and the gear change is a significant improvement over 6700. However in saying that I have to acknowledge that 6700 was a step back in performance over 6600.
So… I guess what I am saying is that I expect the shifting of the new 105 to be significantly better than the 5700 version. That has to be a good thing.
Also, with regards to ratios, I think 11 speed is the end game of the more is more mentality. It is not efficient to go smaller than an 11tooth sprocket, and even that is taking the piddle a bit, so we can’t really go further that way…
Looking at the other end of the spectrum, will roadies go for bigger than a 28t sprocket, or more commonly the 25? Either way, with an 11speed set up you get a good, close ratio block across the range, so there is no advantage. Indeed a 11-25 can include an 16t sprocket… after 19t, you need to go up in 2 teeth at a time as the percentage of gear increase gets too small.
What I am saying, with 11 speed there is no longer a gap in the ratios as there potentially was with 10 speed.
No… actually thinking about it… there may still be an argument for a 12 gear set up… damn that 18t sprocket.
Damn… might explain why the
Damn… might explain why the 10 speed 105 groupset I just bought was so cheap LOL, still means I can buy spares really cheaply as well.
Apparently you can use
Apparently you can use 11-speed cassette on a 10-speed Shimano freehub.
Easy! Just leave the 1mm spacer on there, and leave out the 14t sprocket, and it fits perfectly well.
So you won’t have to throw out your 10-speed wheels, and if you are really exercised by 11 speed, you can enjoy the refinements of the 5800/6800 groups and still keep your 10-speed.
Anyway, here’s hoping they keep the 12-27 105 combo, I find that perfect as it moves the most-used cogs further to the right for big ring riding, plus you get a bail-out cog.
Oh, and I still have a 10-speed steel frame downtube-shifter bike in the shed, it’s glorious, love taking it out now and then, but never in the wet.
drmatthewhardy
Ah yes, this had not occurred to me, good thinking! I have two sets of Shimano 10-speed clinchers that I very much do not want to throw out.
At the same time, I do buy in to the merits of the new group, the least of whose benefits in my opinion is the extra cog…however I use 39 x 14 a lot, and would have to shift up to 52 x 19 instead. Can live with that.
Which ‘end’ of the shifter lever do you adjust out, high or low?
Interesting comments…. not
Interesting comments…. not the only person to have a ‘favourite gear combo’ then!
I do like a triple (or is that a tipple?) But 11 cogs gets around most of the problems. Well it would if 34×32 was low enough, but it isn’t quite low enough for grovelling at the end of an Audax. Guess that makes me not a real cyclist then.
Other than that, 11 speeds, hydro braking, sure why not? If you don’t want it just don’t buy it. Some of the comments above…. I mean no one’s forcing you FFS!
I can see myself buying that disc-braked 11 speed Giant Defy with carbon mudguards in a couple of years. I won’t be exclusive or cool but I’ll sure be getting the job done 😉
A
no complaints from me about
no complaints from me about 6800 Ultegra or this new 5800 105 groupset
I’m currently riding 6700 Ultegra on my best road bike, and 5700 on my other road bike.
Have custom built many bikes for customers with 6800 and test ridden many demo bikes with 6800 and its a very impressive groupset in terms of shifting / braking function, and coming in at a great price
This news about the 5800 groupset is fantastic, its going to introduce a more “affordable” priced 11 speed shimano groupset
This means sub £2K 11 speed Shimano equipped road bike for the masses, and could herald a large takeup of hydro disc brakes with the mechanical shifting / hydraulic disc brake versions of 5800
oh shit, you people dont like
oh shit, you people dont like change do you.
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn
bet you wish your car was running on carbs
and whats this new fangled remote central locking? nothing wrong with a key!
bey eck when i where a lad down’t pit etc
I think it’s great that
I think it’s great that people want 11 speeds and less moneys, that’s why I just got a 5700 groupset for £300. 🙂
Best price I’ve seen for the
Best price I’ve seen for the 6800 groupset is £510, so it’s already cheaper than 6700, which in my view was a step backwards from 6600 in shifter actuation, though the brakes were better.
With the debate about
With the debate about longevity of modern chains appearing once again, it’s worth reflecting that the late Tommy Chambers, that most eminent Glaswegian clubman who in his lifetime rode a documented 799,405 miles no less, meticulously records in his diaries that he wore out 76 chains.
In other words, a decidedly impressive average of 10,518 miles per chain.
Neil753 wrote:With the debate
That may be the case but he also rode old steel bikes, fat heavy tyres, baggy clothing, fixed wheel and pedals with toe straps (not even clips on the pictures i have seen) so what exactly is your point? That old technology is better than modern stuff maybe? I, for one, dont think so.
Welsh boy wrote:Neil753
That may be the case but he also rode old steel bikes, fat heavy tyres, baggy clothing, fixed wheel and pedals with toe straps (not even clips on the pictures i have seen) so what exactly is your point? That old technology is better than modern stuff maybe? I, for one, dont think so.— Neil753
For some purposes, yes it probably was. Commuting to work on a fixed wheel with chain guard, toeclips and fat tyres means I can do it in normal clothes and shoes, comfortably, and cheaply. Maybe I could do the ride quicker on a carbon road bike with high-end Shimano shiny bits, but as a means of converting money into commute miles I reckon my nasty steel fixed wheel wins.
Welsh boy wrote:Neil753
That may be the case but he also rode old steel bikes, fat heavy tyres, baggy clothing, fixed wheel and pedals with toe straps (not even clips on the pictures i have seen) so what exactly is your point? That old technology is better than modern stuff maybe? I, for one, dont think so.— Neil753
You want me to clarify? No problem. Forget about baggy shorts and all that, it’s the chain I’m talking about in this instance. Transmission components in other industries seem to be designed not only for better performance, but for increased longevity too.
I think a lot of cyclists would prefer to change a chain perhaps every 5k, rather than 1.5k, and I think many newbies would be surprised at just how long chains lasted, not just in days gone by, but up until quite recently in fact.
Neil753 wrote:Welsh boy
That may be the case but he also rode old steel bikes, fat heavy tyres, baggy clothing, fixed wheel and pedals with toe straps (not even clips on the pictures i have seen) so what exactly is your point? That old technology is better than modern stuff maybe? I, for one, dont think so.— Welsh boy
You want me to clarify? No problem. Forget about baggy shorts and all that, it’s the chain I’m talking about in this instance. Transmission components in other industries seem to be designed not only for better performance, but for increased longevity too.
I think a lot of cyclists would prefer to change a chain perhaps every 5k, rather than 1.5k, and I think many newbies would be surprised at just how long chains lasted, not just in days gone by, but up until quite recently in fact.— Neil753
This is exactly what I don’t understand about modern bike components. Take a 3-speed auto-box on a car from the 70’s or early 80’s for example. You’d be lucky if you got 70k miles out of it before it started making (very) expensive noises. However a 6 or 7 speed box on a modern car, a vastly more complex piece of kit, is probably good for 200k miles without major intervention.
How come modern bike components are so much less reliable or at least last a fraction of the time of those from a couple of decades ago? I can only think that most bikes are sold/ridden as recreational ‘toys’ nowadays rather than the trusty means of transport that they once were. The obsession with saving weight appears to have trimmed components to the point where they have almost become ‘disposable’. The strangest thing to me is that most cycling enthusiasts on this forum seem to welcome the idea of spending more money and more time with oily fingers replacing components than ever before. Hmmmph.
Joeinpoole wrote:How come
The answer is long, but short.
• People have more money than they used to.
• Cycling has become a leisure pursuit rather than a need.
• Leisure cyclists want the new new thing and can pay for it.
• Many young adults have no training in manual skills, so can’t do bike maintenance.
• Making it easier and more attractive to upgrade than repair…
• …and the bike industry isn’t complaining about that!
harman_mogul wrote:Cycling
I suspect there’s plenty of people buying bikes mainly for transport. It’s just that you don’t hear about it so much. I mean, there’s no such thing as “Cycle to Work” magazine, is there? And what if you enjoy cycling to work, despite being able to afford the bus? Does that count as business, or leisure?
Whatever the situation, as Tom Simpson once said, “We’re all in the saddle”.
Neil753 wrote:I suspect
http://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/cycle-commuter-magazine
11 issues published to date.
Most magazines push cycling as a leisure pursuit / wannabe racer activity rather than A to B transport. It suits the advertisers. The association with performance is aspirational and helps them sell upgrades, accessories, clothing and helmets while simple utility cycling doesn’t.
harman_mogul wrote:The answer
Not me mate, and not anyone I know, but perhaps you move in different circles than I.
Always has been up to a point, but the primary purpose of a bicycle remains to get from one point to another and that is what the vast majority of people use them for.
True of some, also some will be happy to get a cheap used 5700 gruppo, but most people just want their bike to work and spend as little as possible.[/quote]
The same is true of people of all ages, in fact a huge majority of people can’t do bike maintenance, I don’t know why their fathers didn’t teach them, I can only assume it’s because they couldn’t do it either or didn’t think it was important.
No, no they’re not. I wonder whether they are motivated by dedication to providing their customers with the best possible products at a fair price or by $?
I want a 12-28 11-speed
I want a 12-28 11-speed option…
Looks way nicer this year!
Looks way nicer this year!
I’ve just gone up to Ultegra 11sp on the new bike…still finding it a bit awkward to find my sweet spots tbh. Though it’s come in really handy for climbing in races, less clunks as I’m on a 28/11.
Some wheels are OK with swapping using adapters too which means I can swap my powertap wheels between any bike. 😀
Good job Shimano, can’t fault this kit for the price, nice to see the quality filtering down to entry level.
Breaking news:
Major bicycle
Breaking news:
Major bicycle component manufacturer introduces another new product to make a profit, yet some members of the cycling community find this unacceptable.
Stay tuned for more unbalanced comment, vitriol and other stuff about bananas.
On a slightly related note,
On a slightly related note, how long before a new tiagra groupset is announced, under bar shifting ten speed (with improved braking maybe) if they lose the gear indicators then I think Tiagra would be even more of a bargain than it already is.
RobD wrote:On a slightly
Does Tiagra still use the little sticky thumb shifters? or is that Sora I’m thinking of…?
My first bike (ridgeback radium 2012) had those…. if they got rid of those it’d be amazing.
mooleur wrote:
Does Tiagra
My 2014 Marin has Sora and it has double levers. I think the previous incarnation had a lever and thumb button. Not sure about Tiagra
jova54 wrote:mooleur
My 2014 Marin has Sora and it has double levers. I think the previous incarnation had a lever and thumb button. Not sure about Tiagra— mooleur
Ahhh perhaps they’ve got ride of them then, that’d be excellent! Cheers 🙂
Tiagra has ‘drop shifters’,
Tiagra has ‘drop shifters’, not ‘thumb shifters’, good budget shifting if a little clunky(9 speed), the 10 speed tiagra feels a lot slicker/sharper and really isn’t that far off 105 in the weight and quality stakes…
RobD wrote:On a slightly
Shimano release new groupsets at the rate of one a year normally. It starts with DA, then Ultegra, 105, Tiagra and Sora. So if I was a gambling man I would say new Tiagra will be a 2016 groupset, probably available mid 2015.
talking to shimano it seems
talking to shimano it seems that consumer demand for triples has rather dropped off a cliff in the past few years, presumably due to the increasing availability of wide-range double setups. they also don’t think that the shifting across a triple and 11spd cassette is up to scratch either, due to the more extreme chain angles over a double.
whether that’s manufacturer focus driving the demand down, or manufacturers responding to consumer demand, well…
i suspect that sora/tiagra level groupsets will persist with them them though
Still no DI2 in the 105 range
Still no DI2 in the 105 range then?
Still no DI2 in the 105 range
Still no DI2 in the 105 range then?
Still no DI2 in the 105 range
Still no DI2 in the 105 range then?
Got to say, 50/36 and 11-32
Got to say, 50/36 and 11-32 mechanical, plus hydro discs, all internally routed, sounds like my perfect group.
Whether that’s 10 or 11-sp, I care not.
Double check compatibility
Double check compatibility though, apparently a lot of Zipps are proving not to be cross compatible! A load of peeps I know this year have upgraded their groups and bikes to find they’re having to flog their wheels.
I had to order a new compatible freehub body for mine to plop on for use with 11sp. Handy as though as how I have a separate cassette for two different bikes. 🙂
While I realise there are
While I realise there are some real reasons for these technical developments (at least for those hard-core cyclists for whom their own body isn’t far-and-away the primary limiting factor for performance!) I nevertheless find the topic of increasing numbers of cogs always makes me think of this Onion article (once satire but since overtaken by reality).
http://www.theonion.com/articles/fuck-everything-were-doing-five-blades,11056/
Yep – 50/36 would mean I need
Yep – 50/36 would mean I need to buy a new chain ring for a compact. I also ride asymmetric crank lengths due to different length in effective femur size, so I’m going to have to stump up even more cash.
Mind you I prefer the look of the silver 105 crankset over the dark grey of Ultegra so I’ll save some cash there
There seems to be an awful
There seems to be an awful lot of talk about gearing.. From what I see there is nothing to tempt me to upgrade to 11 speed. Quite happy with my Ultegra triple 52.39.30 11/28. Perfect range of gears for what I need and it gets me up any mountain.
Having used a compact I was glad when it wore out. I found I never used the 34 ring except for hills, which effectively meant I had a 10 speed for most purposes!
[snip] comment retracted
[snip] comment retracted
Where is Shimano 105 5800?
Where is Shimano 105 5800? June was said to be the date, but no stores have it yet. (18 Aug says CRC.)
According to my pre-order
According to my pre-order with Tweeks, some parts are available for delivery now, still waiting for my midsize chainset though which is due into stock 05/08. Quite excited. 😉
One thing I did find amusing
One thing I did find amusing was the substantial difference in lead times between the front and rear brake calipers..!
Shimano 105 5800 rear gear
The reviews of the 5800 seem really positive.
I have a ten speed block. As the indexing is in the lever, is there any logical reason why I can’t use a Shimano 105 5800 rear changer with a ten speed block?
Any advice gratefully received!
Rafiki wrote:
It won’t shift well/at all – the indexing will be off because the gaps between the cogs in the cassette are thinner on 11-speed compared to 10-speed. Its why 11-speed chains are thinner.
If the spacing was the same you could do it – you’d just need a longer limit screw to prevent the mech chucking the chain into the spokes.
kil0ran wrote:
10 speed shifters with 10 speed block OK 11 speed shifters with 10 speed block not OK.
BUT I can’t see why you’d replace the mech only.
kil0ran wrote:
Thank you for your reply.
My thought had been that the indexed gear shifter sorts the movement… not the rear changer.
Rafiki wrote:
The shifter moves in increments to suit the spacing of the cogs, so on 11-speed both are different to 10-speed as the cogs are closer together to get them on the same size freehub body. Also the chain is narrower for the same reason.
Just to add, it isn’t just
Just to add, it isn’t just that the shifter pulls a different ammount of cable, its also the way the derailuer moves has changed. So, for example, you cant use the newer Tiagra 4700 10 speed rear derailuer with older 10 speed shifters.