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Hey guys! Haveing trouble deciding my next investment.. 

 

looking at the Canyon Aeroad CF SL 8.0 with Ultegra R8000 with direct mount calipers OR the 7.0 with 105 and didc brakes.. they are both in silver, witch I really want. But disc or no disc? If I go Ultegra disc its only availsble in black  2 

33 comments

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EddyBerckx [742 posts] 2 weeks ago
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disc all day, especially if we're talking about an aero bike with carbon aero wheels. 

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CyclingInBeastMode [269 posts] 2 weeks ago
3 likes

deffo  go no disc, there's absolutely zero need to go disc in any weather conditions and calipers are ridiculously easy to maintain and replace pads. If you're one to ride in constant wet/mud for 10,000+ miles a year, live in a hilly area and use carbon rims then discs might be a consideration based on cost of wearing themout, otherwise you absolutely don't need them.

Aethetically it's a no brainer to go caliper brake.

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hawkinspeter [4392 posts] 2 weeks ago
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Hydraulic disc brakes every time.

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aerobean [7 posts] 2 weeks ago
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If you live in a hilly area get discs, if not get rim brakes

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Drinfinity [280 posts] 2 weeks ago
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105 hydraulic discs. 

Do you really want to go down a hill and use rubber blocks to grind road grit into those nice carbon rims as a way to stop? 

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joachimvadseth [14 posts] 2 weeks ago
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Yea ease of maitenance is a pluss with calipers. I have pair of chinese carbon clinchers so theReynolds could be saved for special ocations. 
 

discs looks good tho, but the 105 crankset has a lot of creaks snd cranys for dirt to collect, wich Im not a fan of. Also the 105 hydraulic hoods look ridicioulusly large compared to the mechanical shifters. 

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hobbeldehoy [59 posts] 2 weeks ago
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It's calipers for me. Road cyclists have been have been seeking lighter wheels for decades but discs put the weight back on the wheels. Yes discs give confidence on long and fast descents but cyclists have been doing it for decades with calipers. Learn to feather your brakes and use your body as an air brake. I think discs are being pushed for marketing reasons.

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IanEdward [384 posts] 2 weeks ago
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If it's your 'best' bike then I would go rim brakes and Ultegra, lighter, quieter and personally the benefits of discs for me are only for really rough, long descents when your arms might get fatigued, or if you're doing significant mileage in the wet when your rims might get worn down (or maybe carbon rims, I've never used them and am unlikely to ever afford them!)

I would hate to spend good money on a high end bike and then have to put up with squealing disc brakes in the wet, or rubbing pads when you're time trialling along the road and trying to just focus on keeping the gear turning! I've had both happen on my gravel bike with disc brakes and now it gets left in the shed unless I really need to take it out.

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joachimvadseth [14 posts] 2 weeks ago
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Yeye! One day I will ride with the sound of a slightly bendt disc! But it looks good tho! Ultegra disc is not an option, as its only avsilable in black and not silver  2 

 

it will be my next 'best bike' as Im planning to sell my Zoncolan 6870. 

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CyclingInBeastMode [269 posts] 2 weeks ago
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Drinfinity wrote:

105 hydraulic discs. 

Do you really want to go down a hill and use rubber blocks to grind road grit into those nice carbon rims as a way to stop? 

What grit do you get sticking to your braking surface, is that because you couldn't be bothered to check your pads andd give your rims a quick wipe every so often? The 'paste' that people refer to is usually found on a commute bike that has had next to no attention to cleaning whatsoever, the amount of 'grinding' gunk on your best bike rims is minimal even in poor conditions because it's very rare that riders will be riding in such conditions so often and then not bother cleaning afterwards.

And if you have to keep braking a lot going down hills then either you're an absolute newbie riding well outside their skill level or you're someone who isn't interested in improving their ability to judge descents/corners and continually choosing terrain they know they cannot handle that well on the downhill sections so are always on the brakes.

Limit of braking is tyre grip and your skill level in judging when to brake and not pushing the boundaries, that applies even more so in the wet, ever wonder why those on discs have just as many incidents as those on calipers? Later braking with discs because you think you can grab a handful without worrying about modulation means you have less thinking time and more likely to put the tyre beyond its traction capability because of the higher speed into corners before braking late, this means more skids and more crashes especially riders who are a bit shonky, we see this occur in the pro ranks often because they are pushing, it's not the lack of braking it's the poor judgement and lack of talent.

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joachimvadseth [14 posts] 2 weeks ago
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I wash my bikes after EVERY wet ride or once a week i general. Not living in hilly area så I dont need discs. 

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Mungecrundle [1649 posts] 2 weeks ago
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Aesthetically, functionally, extra tyre clearance and for the sake of those lovely carbon wheels.

No brainer has to be disc.

Maintenance also very simple.

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EddyBerckx [742 posts] 2 weeks ago
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The disc vs no disc argument has another 5 years I reckon.

That's beside the point.

There is strong belief Canyon are releasing a new, updated version of the aeroad early next year. It was / is a hell of a good bike currently...personally I'd wait to see just how good the new one will be...especially as you won't want to ride your rim brake version in wintery bad weather  3

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ibr17xvii [450 posts] 2 weeks ago
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If it's for your best summer bike unless you live at the top of a mountain then I'd go rim brakes.

Winter bike = disc brakes all day long.

Yes they might be a bit more of a faff every now & then to maintain but there's plenty of help & info out there if you're struggling (as I have  been on a few occasions being new to discs).

I have the AL 7.0 Disc as my winter bike & it's been excellent.

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Dingaling [136 posts] 2 weeks ago
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I have posted previously about how poor my SRAM Red disc brakes are.  In the dry they are not as good as my Campag Super Record rim brakes. In the wet they are horrible. As a hobby cyclist just riding to keep reasonably fit, I don't have to go out in the rain. When I did get rained on, towards the end of a ride, I couldn't believe the squealing noises that the discs made. Even when I wasn't braking I could hear scraping from grit getting between the disc and pads.

I regret getting the gravel bike (last March) with discs though right now I'm not sure if you can get a gravel frame for rim brakes or v-brakes /drop bars.

Conclusion:unless you have a compelling reason to go for discs, go with rim brakes.

 

 

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TheBillder [73 posts] 2 weeks ago
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Given that you are selling the Zoncolan and this is the "next" best bike, is resale value a consideration? The way marketing is going, will rim braking be seen in 5 years time as 

a) as nasty as gear cables coming out of the side of the hoods

b) a sadly missed aesthetic and functional high point

I suppose the other point is that 105 vs Ultegra is a head vs heart debate. This is a specal bike, so will 105 move you in the same way as Ultegra? What will get you out riding and feeling that this is so nice? Hydraulic discs feel great to me on the few rides I've been able to try them, but for me, 105 is special level, Tiagra entirely adequate.

My summer bike has rim brakes (on Al rims) and poor wet weather braking but I haven't yet fitted better pads. On other bikes I have had rims written off which I hate. I'm amazed how gungy things get on a medium length wet ride and the water channels in the pads are tailor-made for girt collection. I'm not enough of a cleaner stop mid-ride...

My winter bike has cable discs which I do prefer in the wet despite the howling - the braking is so much more confidence-inspiring. I am a slightly timid descender and unlikely to brake really hard often, but it still feels far better - especially with newish pads. Have sometimes heard the grit scraping sound in very wet conditions but stopping and spinning the wheels never seems to show any frictional effect.

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joachimvadseth [14 posts] 2 weeks ago
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I live in Norway guys, no riding outside for the next 4-5 months for me anyways. Been on Trainerroad/KICKR Core the last seasons. 
 

I think I could go with 105 and calipers, as the performance is almost identical. My old 6800 groupset is probably less of a performer than the R7000 maybe anyway. But still; non-carbon shifters? Naa.. it must be Ultegra. I cant cheap out on 105. I think Ive decided for the CF SL 8.0 Ultegra with rim brakes. I got a couple of wheelsets to use in the wets anyway. 
 

My current bikes are 53 and 52cm. Canyon says I should go for a XS frame since Im about 172cm. My girlfriends brand new Endurance CF 7.0 with 105 disc is a XS and it feels ok. Even tho Canyon says its no difference between mens and womens bike sizes. 
Also, the Aeroad CF SL 8.0 is not avsilable in silver in S, only XS. 
I could wait for the new model, but how much better could it be? And do I need it? Definetly no. So a 2019 bike is good enough for me. Question is if the will have a sale and The bike is still in stock at that point. 

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IanEdward [384 posts] 2 weeks ago
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Quote:

I regret getting the gravel bike (last March) with discs though right now I'm not sure if you can get a gravel frame for rim brakes or v-brakes /drop bars

There's very few left on the market although I'm speccing a 'dream' gravel/CX build using a Kinesis CX1 frame, available on sale at the moment for £280 in some places (frame only, a suitable carbon fork is £175).

I've now got it down to £1850 for a CX/gravel bike which would weigh only 8.1kg in race mode (single chainring, lightweight tyres) and 8.6kg in gravel mode with a 2x 48/32 chainset and fatter gravel tyres. That's using Avid Shorty Ultimate cantilever brakes which I still see people racing CX on so they must be OK. The alternative would be TRP mini-Vs which are also good (I have them on my commuter) but less mud clearance. At least they are quiet in the wet though using Swisstop pads.

You'd have to spend twice that money to get a disc brake gravel bike that light, and you'd still have scrapey squeely discs in the wet!

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joachimvadseth [14 posts] 2 weeks ago
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And hey, how is the size of the shifters? (ST-6800 vs R8000) i really like the 6870 Di2s small compact size very well..

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srchar [1658 posts] 2 weeks ago
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TheBillder wrote:

I suppose the other point is that 105 vs Ultegra is a head vs heart debate. This is a specal bike, so will 105 move you in the same way as Ultegra?

If we're talking about being moved, the debate really needs to be Chorus vs Super Record  1

H11 shifters & chainset + SR mechs + Chorus chain & cassette currently comes in at £850 on bike24.com, if you fancy a DIY build. That is a ludicrous bargain.

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Welsh boy [727 posts] 2 weeks ago
1 like
srchar wrote:
TheBillder wrote:

I suppose the other point is that 105 vs Ultegra is a head vs heart debate. This is a specal bike, so will 105 move you in the same way as Ultegra?

If we're talking about being moved, the debate really needs to be Chorus vs Super Record  1

H11 shifters & chainset + SR mechs + Chorus chain & cassette currently comes in at £850 on bike24.com, if you fancy a DIY build. That is a ludicrous bargain.

But that wasn't the question!  You have to wonder why Campag stuff is being sold off so cheaply though don't you.

In answer to the original question, discs every time.  A few pieces of rubber grinding away at a wet aluminium rim is no way to stop in an emergency.  Learn to read the road; disc brakes are fine; don't need discs and all the usual arguments dont account for the need to carry out an emergency stop in the wet or the fact that a pair of brake blocks can wear out in 3 or 4 wet winter rides and a pair of aluminium rims can be trashed in 2 winters.  A no brainer, disc every time.

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srchar [1658 posts] 2 weeks ago
2 likes

I know it wasn't the OP's question. I was just being facetious after the comment about Ultegra being the emotional choice.

I assume the Campag stuff is cheap because it's 11 speed, whereas the new stuff has 12 sprockets out back. And I'm spreading the word to the road.cc massive because there are a few Campag riders on here and it really is stupendous value for such nice components - Super Record for Ultegra prices.

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IanEdward [384 posts] 2 weeks ago
1 like
Quote:

Learn to read the road

 

Exactly, reading the road, riding to conditions, if it's wet it takes all of a few seconds to dry your rims, and frankly, if I'm riding in wet conditions, I have no interest in setting PBs on descents anyway!

Quote:

A few pieces of rubber grinding away at a wet aluminium rim is no way to stop in an emergency

And a few pieces of hardened metal and fibre grinding away at hard steel are? I'm being flippant of course but rim brakes are far better designed than people give them credit for, soft rubber pads are far less prone to the sort of squeeling in wet conditions which puts me off discs altogether, wet winter riding is unpleasant enough without adding humiliating, deafening screeching into the mix. As it happens I ride through some long wet grass on one of my CX training loops and my discs are useless afterwards, they don't work as well in the wet as everyone claims they do, still need to dry off!

Good Swisstop pads on aluminium rims have seen me through some atrocious weather conditions, riding down a rivulet of melt water on an unploughed road covered in compacted snow springs to mind, and I'm on the same rims as I was two years ago (although sharing winter duties over two bikes helps that).

Anyway, as someone above posted, this argument will never die, it's down to personal choice, I just find the 'no brainer' attitude a bit hard to swallow.

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mtbtomo [298 posts] 2 weeks ago
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If its a summer bike, or good weather bike, I don't think disc brakes are there yet so far as being consistently quiet and rub free. So I'd go rim brake.

Disc brakes are good for winter when it doesn't matter about the rubbing, grinding and howling.

Either rim or disc have enough power regardless of conditions and anyone that says they don't probably needs to look at their set up.

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EddyBerckx [742 posts] 2 weeks ago
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joachimvadseth wrote:

I live in Norway guys, no riding outside for the next 4-5 months for me anyways. Been on Trainerroad/KICKR Core the last seasons. 
 

I think I could go with 105 and calipers, as the performance is almost identical. My old 6800 groupset is probably less of a performer than the R7000 maybe anyway. But still; non-carbon shifters? Naa.. it must be Ultegra. I cant cheap out on 105. I think Ive decided for the CF SL 8.0 Ultegra with rim brakes. I got a couple of wheelsets to use in the wets anyway. 
 

My current bikes are 53 and 52cm. Canyon says I should go for a XS frame since Im about 172cm. My girlfriends brand new Endurance CF 7.0 with 105 disc is a XS and it feels ok. Even tho Canyon says its no difference between mens and womens bike sizes. 
Also, the Aeroad CF SL 8.0 is not avsilable in silver in S, only XS. 
I could wait for the new model, but how much better could it be? And do I need it? Definetly no. So a 2019 bike is good enough for me. Question is if the will have a sale and The bike is still in stock at that point. 

Make sure you're signed up for their newsletter to get info about any sales that happen...and pull the trigger if they have the bike you want.

Else I think you're crazy paying full price for a bike that was designed over 5 years ago and is about to be potentially replaced...when you cant ride it for another 5 months anyway!

Your choice anyway. A few of my friends have them and love them, you wont be disappointed

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CyclingInBeastMode [269 posts] 2 weeks ago
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Mungecrundle wrote:

Aesthetically, functionally, extra tyre clearance and for the sake of those lovely carbon wheels. No brainer has to be disc. Maintenance also very simple.

How much tyre clearance do you need, a short drop 49mm caliper accepts a 28mm tyre on a race frame (that's not the newer Shimano 8000/9100 that are 51mm), with better design that could be increased. We know for a fact that calipers such as the 57mm TRP957s are as good as Campagnolo Skeleton brakes, well according to Stu Kearton on this site in his review of such so increasing the tyre clearance on a racing frame designed for caliper brakes is in fact easy to do, 31mm with a mudguard I've done and without 35mm.

That's before you even get to Vs/Mini-Vs, are there any road based disc framesets that can take 700C 42mm tyres with a mudguard or 50-55mm without, there have been in the not so distant past road based framesets including full carbon that have been able to accept very wide tyres with rim brakes, I know because I have a selection, off the peg from one of the big manufacturers so it has been entirely possible.

Aethetically and functionally a no brainer, explain? The former I understand is subjective, cleaner lines of a caliper braked bike to me look far better, functional, in terms of more weight and less aero for discs as well as being more expensive compared to similar spec bike how is a disc braked bike better functional/wear wise on carbon rims except for the very extreme scenario I gave above?

Are you going to argue that outright braking power is functionally better - ignoring the risk compensation aspect of that, also ignore that braking power is totally irrelevant to stopping ability when the limiting factor is tyre grip?

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Mungecrundle [1649 posts] 2 weeks ago
2 likes
CyclingInBeastMode wrote:
Mungecrundle wrote:

Aesthetically, functionally, extra tyre clearance and for the sake of those lovely carbon wheels. No brainer has to be disc. Maintenance also very simple.

How much tyre clearance do you need, a short drop 49mm caliper accepts a 28mm tyre on a race frame (that's not the newer Shimano 8000/9100 that are 51mm), with better design that could be increased. We know for a fact that calipers such as the 57mm TRP957s are as good as Campagnolo Skeleton brakes, well according to Stu Kearton on this site in his review of such so increasing the tyre clearance on a racing frame designed for caliper brakes is in fact easy to do, 31mm with a mudguard I've done and without 35mm.

That's before you even get to Vs/Mini-Vs, are there any road based disc framesets that can take 700C 42mm tyres with a mudguard or 50-55mm without, there have been in the not so distant past road based framesets including full carbon that have been able to accept very wide tyres with rim brakes, I know because I have a selection, off the peg from one of the big manufacturers so it has been entirely possible.

Aethetically and functionally a no brainer, explain? The former I understand is subjective, cleaner lines of a caliper braked bike to me look far better, functional, in terms of more weight and less aero for discs as well as being more expensive compared to similar spec bike how is a disc braked bike better functional/wear wise on carbon rims except for the very extreme scenario I gave above?

Are you going to argue that outright braking power is functionally better - ignoring the risk compensation aspect of that, also ignore that braking power is totally irrelevant to stopping ability when the limiting factor is tyre grip?

I'm not going to argue with you at all. It's a completely pointless exercise in futility. Your mind is made up. In your previous incarnations I cannot recall you ever having made any claim of actually trying disc brakes but nevertheless your mind is closed.

Personally I currently have bicycles with both types and the one with rim brakes is a Dura Ace setup. My actual, real experience over many years and thousands of miles is that disc brakes are functionally superior. Aesthetically I think they look modern and suit the more organic lines of carbon frame bikes. For skinny steel classic rim brakes look better. My opinion.

Rim brakes are perfectly adequate, but I'll be enjoying the descents with one finger braking and the superior control of disc brakes thankyou very much.

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Mathemagician [82 posts] 2 weeks ago
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Welsh boy wrote:

You have to wonder why Campag stuff is being sold off so cheaply though don't you.

Because their 12-speed stuff is out and so the H11 stuff is now last generation and will be discounted. It's not rocket science.

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wycombewheeler [1380 posts] 2 weeks ago
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CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

deffo  go no disc, there's absolutely zero need to go disc in any weather conditions and calipers are ridiculously easy to maintain and replace pads. If you're one to ride in constant wet/mud for 10,000+ miles a year, live in a hilly area and use carbon rims then discs might be a consideration based on cost of wearing themout, otherwise you absolutely don't need them.

Aethetically it's a no brainer to go caliper brake.

I have a canyon aeroad, and this is not true, braking in the dry is fantastic, braking in the wet is minimal, to the point where it's hard to lose any speed going down anything over 10%. Ignore all these traditionalists telling you disc brakes are not better than rim brakes. 

However, unless the aeroad is going to be your only bike, there is no need to take it out in the wet, keep it for best and enjoy it in the sunshine, keep it clean, and rim brakes are fine.

Also aeroad comes with very nice expensive wheels, riding in the wet is a sure way to need to replace these sooner than neccesary as the brake blockes collect grit.

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wycombewheeler [1380 posts] 2 weeks ago
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CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

......also ignore that braking power is totally irrelevant to stopping ability when the limiting factor is tyre grip?

not even close to being true, friction between blocks and carbon rims is no where close to friction between tyre and roiad, even in the wet.

on the occasion when I got caught in rain that hadn't been forecast, I was well aware of a reduction in braking and consequently chose a route home without any steep descents, meanwhile when riding on my disc braked winter bike, I can descend almost as normal.

Anyone stating there is no difference either hasn't used disc brakes or doesn't ride where there are hills

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