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Berlin's dangerous roads...

by OldRidgeback
Tue, Jul 02, 2019 08:35
5

An interesting article in the Guardian. It's been some years since I last cycled in Berlin and it was fine back then but it seems like things have changed...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/27/its-dangerous-out-there-s...

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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cqexbesd | 5 years ago
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I cycle in Berlin every day, often towing my child in a trailer. I can only talk subjectively but compared to the UK it feels very much safer.

There are quite a few bike paths - but many aren't protected and lots are in terrible condition as well. It's also not that uncommon to encounter motorcyclists (and the odd car) using them to undertake the traffic. However drivers are just much more cautious and considerate, in general, when you are on the road, and I think this makes the main difference.

The other day I was following a GPS route somehwere new and ended up on a fast looking road. I had the child trailer, and my partner, so I couldn't go too fast myself and I mentally braced for all the punishment passes for daring to be on the road. Yet I was blown away by the room given by every driver - from the young guy in a convertible to bus drivers. Sometimes they even had to slow till there was a good place to pass and yet they always did.

When moving here, the first thing I noticed was that after you are hit by a car the drivers almost always apologise. The first time it happened it blew me away - and it was only then that I realised I expected abuse from any driver who has hit me - a prejudice from my years cycling in the UK. These apologies may be motivated only by their fear you will sue of course, as opposed to any genuine contrition - but it does calm me down when the adrenaline is flowing and I appreciate it.

Of course that shows that I have still been hit by cars here - though at a much lower rate than in London I should emphasise - showing it's not all perfect. It's always by someone turning right across the bike lane without giving way. In my experience the police are reasonable - only once has someone called the police after I was hit and they were there in minutes. They established I was on the bike path and the car was turning right and that was it from me - everything else was directed at the driver. It went to the prosecutor - but I don't think they took it to court because the prosecutor rang me and got fed up with my poor German - but it shows a greater willingness to do something than would be normal for the UK.

I have also cycled in Amsterdam and Copenhagen (though not regularly, just as a tourist). Berlin still has quite a way to go it is true. Then I remember London from 15 years ago...

 

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hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
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I visited Berlin a couple of years ago and was impressed by the number of cyclists and cycle lanes. I wasn't cycling however, so I didn't get more than just a fleeting impression.

It's a fantastic city to visit. Until I went there, I just had a vague impression of WWII, but seeing old guard towers and the museums/exhibitions really brings it home that it did actually happen. Unbelievable really how people could be led into such evil.

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OldRidgeback replied to hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
1 like

hawkinspeter wrote:

I visited Berlin a couple of years ago and was impressed by the number of cyclists and cycle lanes. I wasn't cycling however, so I didn't get more than just a fleeting impression.

It's a fantastic city to visit. Until I went there, I just had a vague impression of WWII, but seeing old guard towers and the museums/exhibitions really brings it home that it did actually happen. Unbelievable really how people could be led into such evil.

 

It's been quite a few years since I last cycled there. We have friends in Berlin but I haven't been for some years. I go to Munich far more frequntly as we have family there and I also go for work. I've cycled many times in Munich and the cycling provision is pretty good. In some ways it's actually better than Amsterdam as there aren't quite as many cyclsits, while the main streets are broader.

As regards WWII, my (German) wife's uncle Karl (now deceased), who fought in the Wehrmacht on the Russian front made a particularly apt comment when we were talking with him about the Middle East and the various wars and instability there, as well as the involvement of the UK and US. He was very critical of the UK and US foreign policy then said, "We were fools. We believed everything we were told."

I've met a few German WWII veterans and most were very reticent on the subject, but Karl was very sharp and very much to the point. Given the insanity of Brexit and the extreme right wing views driving it, it's hard not to draw uncomfortable parallels.

 

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hawkinspeter replied to OldRidgeback | 5 years ago
1 like

OldRidgeback wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

I visited Berlin a couple of years ago and was impressed by the number of cyclists and cycle lanes. I wasn't cycling however, so I didn't get more than just a fleeting impression.

It's a fantastic city to visit. Until I went there, I just had a vague impression of WWII, but seeing old guard towers and the museums/exhibitions really brings it home that it did actually happen. Unbelievable really how people could be led into such evil.

 

It's been quite a few years since I last cycled there. We have friends in Berlin but I haven't been for some years. I go to Munich far more frequntly as we have family there and I also go for work. I've cycled many times in Munich and the cycling provision is pretty good. In some ways it's actually better than Amsterdam as there aren't quite as many cyclsits, while the main streets are broader.

As regards WWII, my (German) wife's uncle Karl (now deceased), who fought in the Wehrmacht on the Russian front made a particularly apt comment when we were talking with him about the Middle East and the various wars and instability there, as well as the involvement of the UK and US. He was very critical of the UK and US foreign policy then said, "We were fools. We believed everything we were told."

I've met a few German WWII veterans and most were very reticent on the subject, but Karl was very sharp and very much to the point. Given the insanity of Brexit and the extreme right wing views driving it, it's hard not to draw uncomfortable parallels.

 

I've been to Munich as well and the wife and I hired a couple of bikes and spent a day cycling round - superb facilities and also a very pretty city.

Avatar
OldRidgeback replied to hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
1 like

hawkinspeter wrote:

OldRidgeback wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

I visited Berlin a couple of years ago and was impressed by the number of cyclists and cycle lanes. I wasn't cycling however, so I didn't get more than just a fleeting impression.

It's a fantastic city to visit. Until I went there, I just had a vague impression of WWII, but seeing old guard towers and the museums/exhibitions really brings it home that it did actually happen. Unbelievable really how people could be led into such evil.

 

It's been quite a few years since I last cycled there. We have friends in Berlin but I haven't been for some years. I go to Munich far more frequntly as we have family there and I also go for work. I've cycled many times in Munich and the cycling provision is pretty good. In some ways it's actually better than Amsterdam as there aren't quite as many cyclsits, while the main streets are broader.

As regards WWII, my (German) wife's uncle Karl (now deceased), who fought in the Wehrmacht on the Russian front made a particularly apt comment when we were talking with him about the Middle East and the various wars and instability there, as well as the involvement of the UK and US. He was very critical of the UK and US foreign policy then said, "We were fools. We believed everything we were told."

I've met a few German WWII veterans and most were very reticent on the subject, but Karl was very sharp and very much to the point. Given the insanity of Brexit and the extreme right wing views driving it, it's hard not to draw uncomfortable parallels.

 

I've been to Munich as well and the wife and I hired a couple of bikes and spent a day cycling round - superb facilities and also a very pretty city.

My eldest was just there with some mates and stayed with the cousins. They rented some e-scooters and had a great time whizzing around using the cycle lanes.

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