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Cyclists are not rule breakers
I came across this report on Twitter and thought it might be of soem interest. It certainly runs against the oft-held claim that cyclsits are habitual red light jumpers. It is from Florida, which has amongst the worst road safety of any US state. But I'd be interested to hear of any parallel studies from here in Europe, or in other US states.
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/03/study-cyclists-dont-break-traffic...
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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Latest Comments
- Mr Blackbird 1 hour 53 min ago
I suspect you are right. But no harm in hoping.
- Jack Sexty 2 hours 10 min ago
Apologies for the oversight there, it's been corrected. Obviously it should have said 97ft🤦♂️
- festival 2 hours 28 min ago
The more this Nash gezzer opens his mouth the worse he comes across. The mans passion for green issues clouds his judgement on common decency!
- a1white 3 hours 59 min ago
Simon Nash needs to just stick to making the produts and seriously step back from social media and all the marketing. He's an absolute liability to...
- Jitensha Oni 4 hours 12 min ago
Because drivers often find it hard too and nobody’s perfect (indeed a few are bad on purpose)? It’s not really fair to expect people cycling to...
- wtjs 4 hours 31 min ago
Even I would say 'report horse ramming to the police ' because just ignoring that report is viewed as less acceptable than if it was a cyclist -...
- chrisonabike 6 hours 1 min ago
I wasn't a bike geek or "serious" rider then (not now...) - my ride was a non-suspended 26" wheel "mountain bike" with V-brakes and piano key...
- mdavidford 6 hours 10 min ago
And, bonus, you can get rid of feed zones - just make them carry all their supplies in the basket.
- IanMK 6 hours 40 min ago
Indistinguishable? I overtook a legal e-bike last week. I am a member of the public and I managed to distinguish it from an illegal e-motorbike...
- Condor Andy 8 hours 27 min ago
I tried to make a thread announcing a league code for Velogames, but it seems to have been banished to the aether. The code is 620099424
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18 comments
People on foot still should have a lawful responsibility to not harm others by their actions, simply stepping out in front of someone without warning that then causes the other person harm should be seen in exactly the same way as a person on a bike doing exactly the same to someone on the pavement/footway/footpath.
If you don't then as we see now we have a massive spike in pedestrian/cyclist injuries because only one group is looking out and the other group is doing whatever the fuck they please )far more than ever before) no matter if that hurts someone else just as vulnerable.
In my experience the most likely RLJ is a middle aged woman in the dayglo jacket sitting bolt upright. She will trundle through the lights and turn right across a junction when all the pedestrian lights are flashing for all to see. Seemingly oblivious that everyone is watching her despite the fact she decided to wear the jacket to be seen anyway. Because it is the safest thing to do, right? Seems like common denominator with RLJ is self-centeredness.
Though we are not legally responsible for the actions of others, we all contribute to the national road culture, and drivers do see what cyclist do and might be less prone to give the next person a bit of space and respect. Or more likely they will just run the next marginal red themselves.
I jump sometimes.
Pedestrians jump most of the time and pedestrians are 95% of the population, so what is the big deal?
Fatalities caused by other pedestrians and cyclists are compared are equal to lightning and donkey kicks fatalities so not a real problem too, so again what is the big deal?
I assume you mean red light jumping when you say jump
Pedestrians don't red light jump, simply because pedestrians don't have to obey light signals and pedestrians always have right of way.
I too, very occasionally, red light jump - only when there is no other option - the filter turn to my workplace uses induction loop detection and it won't detect my bicycle (even after reporting the issue a couple times to the council), so I either stand there in the middle of the road waiting for a car to come and break the induction loop, or I RLJ when there's no traffic (just as you'd turn off a normal road).
Exactly. Thankfully, there is no "jaywalking" law in Britain (although I believe there is in Northern Ireland).
Difference is it's 100% legal for pedestrians to cross on red.
Yes, I occasionally jump lights too.
It's the stereotype that causes the issue though, obviously I respect people's right to disagree with the label but those looking to mock get very confused.
They'll talk about having an MOT on bikes and moan about riding thru the countryside 2 abreast, ignoring that many that do that will check their tyre pressures et al before setting out.
They talk of no lights and commuters swarming over the road - commuters are generally lit up like a Christmas tree in fear of their life!
Like you hint above with the militant attitudes that think Muslims are represented by terrorists; they'll find 2 people on bikes and apply that to all cyclists.
The trouble with the 'cyclist' label as well is a bit of a problem. Those stick thin, weed smoking twats wearing their hoodies and riding shit bikes with no lights jumping out into the road etc. aren't one of "us". In fact, in all likelihood, they just haven't learnt to steal a Corsa yet!
I'm also not having the London w@nkers representing me either, a good many would be breaking the rules in their cars if it wasn't so gridlocked.
Perception is a problem too. Riding past Crewe station there's a cycle path that starts in a stupid position (after thought) so I have to move out to turn right on a downhill, double lane approaching a main roundabout. However, if the pedestrian crossing lights are red I can jump up onto the right hand pavement there, do about 30m carefully on a pavement before picking up the shared use path. Safer for me, less obstruction of traffic and I literally use the pavement at walking pace. There'll still be drivers tutting and pedestrians being deliberately annoying deciding I shouldn't be there tho...
Not really, unless you want to also discuss the trouble with the 'motorist' label and so on. If you divide any group into 'lovely people like us' and 'idiots not like us' it's going to be a bit artificial and the differences probably all but invisible to those not in the know. People everywhere go the whole spectrum from twat to saint, and cycling isn't any different.
Edit : Oh and i'm from Bristol and can alas confirm there are plenty of idiots of all ages and gender that regularly drive their car the wrong way down the one-way street opposite me, lights on or not. Pointing this out is not always a joyous experience.
I beg to differ. Someone cycling is a cyclist, that's it. Some cyclists behave well, some don't. Just like drivers (and pretty much every other group).
Of course, some people stereotype minorities like cyclists, usually in a negative way - just as they do migrants, Muslims, Young People Today, Tories, etc. It's not good but that's life.
From my experience EVERY motorist breaks the law or puts fear of harm into another human 99.999999% of the time every time they go out, I think there are maybe a few times when I've been absolutely perfect to be within the law when driving but I have never put someone in fear of harm or have harmed another person.
We have such a weak system that doesn't want to keep them in check, laws that are too feeble to rail them in and a government, police force and prosecution service far more interested in pushing the blame elsewhere/not interested in addressing the issues and continue to lower the barrier/prosecution level which undermines the law and makes matters worse for all road users alike.
Stuff like driving at a speed you can stop well within the distance you can see to be clear should be an absolute, not a guidance or hint to think about now and again and that as my first sentence 99.999999% ignore anyway despite it being in the HC.
This should be stuck in with the proposals for new cycling laws, it's a crock of shit, it should be more enforcement and firming up of motorists laws not something that already has laws and a high level of enforcement over by comparison.
That says more about you then other people.
I drive, cycle, walk and run and the proportion depends on what role I'm currently doing.
I find in the areas I regularly cycle to and from it is rarely motorists who are the problem. It is more likely to be a pedestrian who will threaten me or make me feel unsafe due to their behaviour.
Enlighten me, what DOES it say about me, c'mon, what are you accusing me of exactly? Are you saying that I'm a liar and that 99.99999% of motorists don't break the law every day? Because frankly that is absolutely true, the main culprits are speeding and careless/distracted/inattention.
I find that motorists are by far the greatest threat to my safety both on bike, on foot and when in car and have been so in the 34 years I've been riding on the roads.
Pedestrians rarely ever cause me bother, the vast majority look where I live and in return I give them space and time to cross ahead (if safe to do so) and usually have a litle exchange as they've said thank-you, when they're not looking I'll
plough straight through the feckersslow, ride wide and cover my brakes because I don't know if they are crossing or not.I've been stepped back into unexpectedly much like what happened to Charlie Alliston, I was going about the same speed as Alliston (circa 10-14mph) luckily for me there was no lorry on the near side. One time I was knocked off my bike by an errant youth who sprinted right into me from the side of the road after he'd looked straight at me. I'd moved to virtually the dividing central line and slowed and he just aimed his run right at me, I was injured and still suffer to this day, my bike damaged, him not a scratch, him 100% at fault.
However that pales into insignificance compared to how motorists are still by far the scariest and biggest law breakers by a long, long way and threaten my life every single day.
If you think that peds are your biggest threat and you don't think motorists break the law all the time then you live in some other world that is contra to all other UK environs/other cyclists experience and what the stats prove.
I'm sure there is a proper term for it, but we notice things more when we are looking out for them and look for evidence that confirms our belief, to the extent it makes things seem more common than they actually are, e.g 'Audi drivers are aggressive'or 'it always rains more at the weekend'.
The term you're looking for is confirmation bias
The topic title is wrong.
A lot of cyclists DO break rules, the article just suggests no more than drivers break rules.
In fact, from my experience of cycling through Bristol, I would possibly have to say that cyclists are the least predictable and least aware road users. I haven't seen any cars travelling the wrong way down a road at night without lights on...
Despite this, the ramifications of a cyclist breaking a rule/law are generally much less significant than a motorist doing the same (in charge of nearly 2000kg of metal travelling at 30odd mph).
Only once, ever (in Bristol!)