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Canyon Endurace- set up like Ultimate?
Hi ...pondering between both as not tried either.
Any Endurace riders out there- curious to see if you can truly set up as asserive as Ultimate
(Ult SL 9.0 Disc vs End SLX 8.0 Disc)
Usually do 40-50m rides rather than out and out sprints. (mid 40s rider.....no bad back problems)
Cheers
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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32 comments
Don't assume your bike fitter is a magician. I had a bike fit which worsened my back and knee pain. Most bike fit methodologies are based on "normal" biomechanical ranges, there's a lot of averaging going on.
Personally, I'd just adjust things a little at a time until the pain goes away. My solution to this was to find a 6 mile loop near my house and spend an afternoon riding laps, making tiny adjustments each time.
For back pain - saddle & bar positions
For knee pain - cleat position
Cheers,
Alright, I'll do some test riding
One last question for now. If I move my saddle back, should I lower my saddle height? I'm thinking 2mm won't make a difference, but 10mm maybe does? Thanks for the help everyone!
If you keep on moving it by 2mm at a time, eventually you'll find a position that works.
You only really need to change the saddle height if your saddle isn't flat.
Make sure you have the measurements from the bike fit, then move one thing at a time by a small amount.
Because of the issues with my knee, I went to the bike fitter and he set it up like this. We did some tests and apparently I can push more watts with my saddle to the front. I do feel a little more stress on my wrists now.
I think it's also a part in my head that says I'm sitting to close to my bars. I would rather sit a bit more behind, but maybe this will hurt my knee again?
I don't do triathlons by the way, just sunday rides and sportives.
The amount of power you can output isn't important if you are uncomfortable doing so.
Assuming the bike fitter is correct, it may take you some time to get used to the position.
My opinion would be your saddle is too far forward, bunching you up and making your lower back curve too much. Therefore, the saddle should be moved back. Usually, knee issues are due to improper cleat setup (though saddle position can affect this).
It could be worth keeping your current position and doing a few rides. If you are still uncomfortable, move the saddle back by 2mm and go for a ride. Repeat until comfortable.
Unfortunately, bike fitting can sometimes be a bit of an art as everyone is different. Getting the fine adjustment takes a bit of time.
I don't have the H31 Ergocockpit, instead I have the H17 Ergo AL handlebar. But I prefer not to buy any other handlebar/cockpit.
I still have all my spacers (27,5mm), so maybe I could try to lower my stem. Or I could buy a longer stem. The one I have now is 100mm.
I doubt you will need to change your bars. Fortunately, stems can be replaced cheaply and easily, so that may be worth changing if back issues continue.
It could be worth changing the stack height then. Depending on your flexibility, it could exacerbate issues.
Canyon used to use a 1.25" (constant circumference) steerer, and I am not aware they have changed, so switching stems not quite as simple. Not many manufacturers make an inch and a quarter stem (Ritchey, Syntace). So not impossible but not as cheap and easy as on a bike with an inch and an eighth steerer.
I, like part robot, doubt you need a large frame.
Like part robot, I have a Medium Ultimate but with a 100mm stem and 74mm reach.
Assuming you are using the H31 ergocockpit (which costs a lot to replace) I'd suggest sticking with that for a while to see if the back pain subsides.
It's also worth making sure your bars are at the right height. I would consider doing some stretches/core body work too.
I mean handlebar reach, yes. I'm sorry, English isn't my native language.
These are the documents the bike fitter gave me: http://docdro.id/IA48iDW (It's in dutch, so if you need any translations, I'll do my best).
I can touch my toes IF I force myself.
Thanks for helping me out!
Hmn... your fit is ...interesting. Your saddle, as you say, is all the way forward (I bet the tip is directly above the bottom bracket). Additionally, the reach is quite long (a couple of cm longer than my Ultimate) yet at the same time your drop isn't so much. It's kinda like you're triathlon at the back and relaxes at the front. I'm a bit confused
What is the goal of this setup? Do you have some issue physical limitations (other than your back)? When you ride the bike, do you find a lot of weight on your hands with this setup?
Regarding stem, get it from Canyon. They make the best 1.25" stems.
Me again. I've been riding with my Endurace (size M) for a few weeks now and I really like the bike, but I'm not 100% comfortable with my position. I had some issues with my knees, so I went to a bike fitter and after finetuning my cleats and saddle (my saddle is all the way to the front now, minimum setback), he said that I actually needed a size L frame. When I contact Canyon, they say a size L is practically impossible with my measurements.
I can't switch frames anymore, more than a month has passed, so my bike fitter recommended to buy a longer stem (130mm) and a steer with a longer reach (110mm). Will this help? Because all these numbers don't mean much to me. My issues with my knees are better (not gone), but now I have a bit pain in the lower back area.
Bike geometry can be found here:
https://www.canyon.com//en/road/endurace/endurace-cf-sl-disc-7-0.html
My measurements:
Length: 180
Inseam: 85,9
Arm length: 59,2
Torso: 62
Anybody any comments before I spend more money?
What do you mean "steer with a longer reach"? You mean the handlebar reach maybe?
I'm with Canyon: I really doubt you need a Large. I'm the same height as you, fairly flexible and with longer arms; my M Ultimate has a 110mm stem using bars with a 70mm reach and that's ample. That'd be a 120mm stem with your bike. An L simply wouldn't fit either the legs or reach. That said, my setback (saddle tip to BB center, horizontally) is 80mm and it seems like yours is a good few cm less? Which strikes me as a little odd unless you're doing triathlons with it...
Can you share the dimensions the bike fitter gave you? E.g. handlebar drop, handlebar reach, saddle setback, saddle height, etc? Also, can you touch your toes?
You're almost exactly my dimensions. I was perfectly balanced on a Canyon Ultimate AL in M. I too suffered back problems when I had a more racey bike, but I gradually lowered the stem and now my back is fine. You'll get used to it!
Based on the geometry alone of my Ultimate CF SLX Disc, I think I could closely match the geometry of the Endurace.
The Endurace does have the nicer Assualt LE Disc wheels compared to my Ultimates Mavic Cosmic Pro Carbon's (though I bloody like them!).
The Ultimate has slightly narrower bars (another reason I chose it) as well as the Antares saddle (which I upgraded to the carbon braided version anyway).
I tend to do shorter (1-2 hour rides) at pretty much the max effort I can sustain for that time, I tend to keep fairly low and spend most the time on the drops. My position is as aggressive as I can currently sustain but I still have 15mm stack on my Ultimate, so I imagine I could keep the same position on the Endurace.
Alright, thanks for the advice! I just ordered a Endurace CF SL 7.0 Disc.
€200 cheaper than the Ultimate, so that made my decision a little bit easier.
My advice then would be to go with your gut- can make one more aggressive and the other softer as needed.
ps I was also worried about sizing . At 177cm I was advised for a small . 1cm more would be a medium. I went small and ok (despite large mountain bike) didn't even need longer stem...but may do that in future. FYI a small is a 54...sobotgrrs would call it a medium
Just got the ultimate cf sl Di2 disc in brown! Really do like the colour but could be marmitey. First wanted SLX in gt blue but didn't fancy the alu aerowheels named as carbon wheels (canyon-why?) Felt ripped off by them....so got great wheels and tyres on the SL version and Di2.
as the OP I was torn between endurace and ultimate.
the ultimate though is relaxed enough geometry so I surprisingly put the stem lower. ...even though I was considering an endurace. Actually now know I'd have been happy with either despite changing mind all the time and having analysis paralysis
I'm more or less in the same boat and I'm losing sleep over it!
My first choice was the Endurace, changed my mind 20 times and now I'm back to the Endurace, but I'm still not confident about it. I will use my bike most of the time on flat roads, short hills and cobblestones every now and then for rides mostly around 100km or more (I'm planning to go to the Alps though). I don't compete in races, it's just for fun with the club or sometimes I participate in cyclosportive events. But offcourse I want to go fast.
When I'm riding, my hands are most of the time on top or at the shifters, almost never in the drop bars. So I'm guessing Endurace is the right choice, but I'm a little bit afraid it won't be enough 'racey'.
How does the Ultimate act on the cobblestones?
I have an Endurace CF9 and love it. Probably the only thing to change would be a 10mm longer stem,and I wish I'd known about the exchange offer.
The front end is so stiff and direct compared to my carbon Scott.The leaf spring seatpost does work but needs a reasonable amount showing over the clamp.Perfectly set up out of the box and quick delivery as the bike was in stock.
I'm around 1.8m tall and the M is spot on apart from stem length. I only wished Canyon were a bit more adventurous with their colours but that's being picky.
Hi Big Jay,
Our bikes aren't really designed to have anything attached to them in this way and strapping anything to the frame or post could cause asthetic marks.
Please also bear in mind that the total max weight we recommend for our bikes is 120kg so it's important to be aware of how much weight you are putting into the saddle pack.
The VCLS leaf spring on the Endurace CF SLX is probably not the best post to use if you are thinking of strapping the saddle pack to it, and if you are going to do this I would suggest purchasing a solid post that is stronger. These can be found on our website below:
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/accessories/?category=2706
Hope that helps!
Thanks,
CanyonChloe
I didn't know that I needed an "assertive" bike. So glad I visited this forum discussion.
Hi Gavin,
Great to hear you're interested in purchasing a Canyon bike!
The Ultimate is our lightest road bike. It's stiff, responsive and ideal for climbing.
The Endurace is also a great bike but the geometry is a little more relaxed with a shorter top tube and taller head tube and designed more around comfort. Great for those training rides and long days in the saddle!
Whichever bike you decide to go for we do have a 30 day stem and handlebar exchange so if you feel you want to change these things all you need to do is let us know within 30 days of receiving the bike.
Please let us know if you have any more questions!
Thanks,
CanyonChloe
would you advise against using an Apidura saddle pack if not full to brimming on the VCLS seat post or do you think it will cope ok? I want to ride a long 2 day ride and was hoping to use the Endurace SLX?
Don't buy the brown bike if you don't like it. The colour of your bike is more important than anything else. If you love your bike you'll ride it more. Fact!
I've an Ultimate and find it's not very aggressive geometry wise compared to my old Bianchi. Very comfortable though, even with stem slammed.
Seriously though, i'm happy with my Ultimate SLX disc. You can easily run 32mm tires on them. If you ever had the inclination ride over some slightly rougher terrain, you can.
Cough up an extra £200 and go for the Aeroad SLX 8.0 disc
sounds like the Ultimate then! I'd not worry about the different spec frame, you're really not going to notice it unless you ride both side-by-side, but you will notice the Di2 and no handlebar hassle
Thanks all....for cirac the same budget Im considering
1) Ultimate SL....in dodgy brown! But with Di2......colour is marmitey? Assertive geometry
2) Endurace...slightly less assertive and likely need to get aerobars returned (especially as I'm in the middle of S/M) and better wheels, but no Di2 option for the future.
Pain in the neck being nice to my LBS for new handlebar fitting!!
Clear now that I cant go wrong witheither- Ultimate SL needs no work (as Di2 and no handlebar change) = Head
Endurace colour and higher spec frame--but limited di2 and stem changes etc......= Heart!!
Have you Endurace/ Ultimate owners enjoyed your decision- no regrets?
Cheers
There are a few other differences between the two models to consider as well. The Endurace comes with wider tyres, good for comfort if you're racing, and that model comes with the VCLS seatpost which makes a noticeable impact on seated comfort.
The H31 Ergocockpit bar also makes a noticeable contribution to the smooth ride of this bike. Not that the Ultimate is a harsh ride, it isn't, but it's not as smooth as the Endurace. Depends on whether that's important to you.
You're also comparing an Ultimate SL to an Endurace SLX, small difference but the SLX frames are slightly lighter on account of a higher grade of carbon used in the construction
I never found the Endurace wanting in its raciness. The geo is certainly closer to a race bike than many other endurance bikes on the market right now
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