You’ve probably heard lots of good things said about tubeless tyres – better puncture protection, comfort, rolling resistance and so on – but have you heard about the downsides? The tyres can be a pain to fit, sealant makes a mess everywhere and there are huge compatibility issues, as we explain below.
– Buyer’s guide to tubeless tyres — all your options in new technology rubber
Tubeless might just be the best thing since the invention of the pneumatic tyre, or it might be a complete waste of time. The history of bicycle product development is littered with as many rubbish products as significant ones, but in our view tubeless tyres are a big step forward (you may beg to differ). Even so, as the technology stands today tubeless has its drawbacks – some of them are pretty well known, others less so.
Here are some of the cons of current tubeless tyre technology.
No more punctures…
Before we get into the downsides, let’s start with a positive. One of the key benefits of a tubeless tyre setup is a greatly reduced risk of puncturing. The liquid sealant inside is able to seal smaller holes caused by glass, flint or stones and plug the hole because it dries very quickly.
When you witness it happening firsthand and are able to continue riding without needing to replace the inner tube you’ll be convinced that this is the future.
…but doesn’t plug all holes
That said, tubeless isn’t invincible and the sealant won’t seal all holes above a certain size, generally about 6mm, because it’s simply overwhelmed by the speed of the air rushing out. This means you might, in rare cases, find yourself with a flat tyre and sealant everywhere. Messy!
For really big holes that the sealant can’t fix, you have two choices, either whack a tube in or use a tubeless repair kit involving an odd rubber anchovy – yep, that’s what they’re called – which you stuff into the hole to seal the tyre. They’re popular with mountain bikers but yet to be embraced by roadies. You can read a review here. So that’s something else you need to buy. The price is creeping up.
You still need to carry a spare tube
Yup, it’s advisable to carry a spare inner tube even though you’ve banished them from your wheels, just in the rare event that the sealant can’t plug a hole.
Installation issues – the tyre just won’t fit
This is the biggest problem with current tubeless tyres. Fitting a regular (non-tubless) clincher tyre and inner tube is mostly painless. At worst you might need a few tyre levers, but after that, a small pump will get the tyre inflated onto the rim. It takes about five minutes.
Some tubeless tyres, however, can take much more time to get fitted to the rims and involve much cursing. The problem is due to there being no one standard that all rim and tyre manufacturers adhere to. Also, because you need a very good seal with the tyre bead on the rim, it generally involves a very tight fit… in some cases so tight that you need multiple tyre levers. We’ve known people to give up, it can be that difficult.
When you’ve got the tyre onto the rim, it’s not all over. Nope, in some cases, you need a tubeless-specific pump, CO2 canister or compressor to deliver the big burst of air needed to pop the tyre up onto the beads.
Much of the problem with tricky tubeless installation comes down to the issue of compatibility between different brand rim and tyres, and a lack of a universal standard. There is wide variation in rim and tyre size and bead stiffness, which affects installation and safety. Keeping the tolerances small is crucial to the success of the system because without an inner tube pushing the bead against the inside of the rim there needs to be a really good fit to ensure the tyre doesn’t come off the rim.
– One step closer to a road tubeless standard? And why this matters to you
The result is that some tyres are a breeze to fit to some rims, with the complete opposite true of a different tyre and rim combination.
This is slowly changing, though, with more brands making their tubeless tyres to ETRTO standards and we have to say that similar issues can affect tubed clinchers. That said, the issue seems to be magnified with tubeless.
There’s a difference between tubeless-ready and tubeless rims
You do need to be a little careful if you’re upgrading to a new wheelset when going tubeless as there is a difference between a tubeless-ready rim and one that is designed for tubeless-only tyres.
The difference can be found at the rim bed and specifically, where the tyre bead sits. Hookless rims (above) are designed for tubeless tyres (although you can still use them with an inner tube up to certain pressures; different brands offer different advice on this), and as the name suggests, they do not feature a hook on the rim.
Tubeless-ready rims, meanwhile, offer you a wider selection of tyres as you can use standard clincher tyres and tubeless-ready tyres. A tubeless-ready rim (above) keeps the hooks that you’d expect to find and they don’t come with the lower max tyre pressures of hookless rims either.
Which one is better? That’s not a debate that we’ll get into today.
It can be messy
All that sealant invites the risk of a mess, and sometimes tubeless can be a messy thing. If you get a puncture while riding, unless you have mudguards you could spray sealant all over your frame, bum and back and anyone riding behind you. I’ve seen this happen and while it’s funny, it’s not nice at all.
When a tubeless installation goes wrong, you can be left with puddles of sealant on the floor or ground of your workshop/kitchen/office. Try explaining why there’s white gunk everywhere to your other half!
Tubeless can be heavier
The extra material needed to make a tubeless tyre, and in some cases, the rim as well with additional rim strips, plus the tubeless valves and necessary sealant, means that even though you’re ditching the inner tube, a tubeless setup can be heavier.
The tyres are generally heavier too. A Continental GP 5000 TL 28mm tyre weighs 340g versus 250g for a regular GP 5000 tyre. Removing the inner tube, however, does save you in the region of 100g but you’re adding back 50-60g of sealant which negates some of the weight saved, and those tubeless valves are probably a little heavier too, and there’s the rim strip if your wheels need it.
Just don’t go expecting tubeless to shed loads of weight from your bike with tubeless, although in some cases it can save a small amount. Plus, if you’re carrying two spare tubes just in case, that’s your weight saved added back to the bike.
– Buyer’s guide to tubeless tyres — all your options in new technology rubber
It can be an expensive upgrade
Wheel manufacturers have been quick to embrace tubeless and a lot of new road and gravel bikes are now being sold with wheels that are tubeless-ready, so you’re halfway there.
If you want to go tubeless, you’re going to have to buy new tyres. Now, unless you need to replace worn-out tyres, then it does mean removing a perfectly good set of tyres and replacing them with new tubeless tyres.
Tubeless tyres are a little bit more expensive than the clincher model and you’ll also need to get yourself tubeless valves, sealant and rim strips if the rim bed isn’t sealed.
If your bike doesn’t currently have tubeless-ready wheels then you’re going to need to buy a new set of hoops too.
One alternative to buying new wheels if yours aren’t tubeless-ready (and we’re not recommending this) is to go ghetto. In the early days of tubeless, especially in the mountain biking world, it was common to use regular non-tubeless tyres and rims and use rim strips and sealant to achieve a tubeless setup. With the higher pressures involved in a road bike tyre it’s probably safer to follow manufacturer guidelines and only use approved tubeless components.
Sealant eventually dries out and needs topping up/replacing
Sealant is the magic ingredient that gives tubeless setups their big advantages over inner tubes, in being able to seal punctures.
The liquid sealant required of a tubeless setup doesn’t stay liquid forever. It’ll eventually dry out. I’ve had many alarming cases with road and mountain bikes when I’ve whipped the tyre off only to find the sealant completely dried out!
Muc-Off claims its sealant lasts up to six months after which you’re going to need to top it up. In most cases, the sealant is going to dry out long before your tyre wears out. Now you can either carry out checks every few months by popping the tyre off the rim, or the easiest option is to just top up the sealant every few months.
It isn’t easy to add sealant
When you do need to add sealant, there isn’t really a foolproof way to do it.
Yes, you can remove the core of most tubeless valves, but over time they love to get themselves gunked up with old sealant – and that can make removing the core a nightmare. Then, once you manage to get it out, most sealant bottles don’t fit the valve properly so you’ll inevitably get some sealant dripping down onto the rim, tyre sidewall and – in the worst cases – down onto the carpet. Our Liam is terrible for this.
Now there are specific syringes available for this job but even those are prone to throwing sealant everywhere. This all means that you probably want to have a rag ready.
Sounds like tubeless is a terrible idea then?
If all that has put you off the idea of trying tubeless, we should end by saying that in our opinion the pros of tubeless tyres outweigh the cons. Getting the tyres on and off can be messy and a general pain but the beauty of tubeless is that it’s not something you have to do often. There is hope for tubeless to become much more accessible and easier with the industry finally agreeing on new standard guidelines to maybe all these troubles will be a thing of the past and nothing more than teething problems.
Do you love or hate tubeless? Let’s hear your thoughts in the comments section.
126 thoughts on “9 things they don’t tell you about tubeless tyres”
Some fair points made here
Some fair points made here but you can keep your tubes!
Spending many minutes in the rain at the side of the road fixing a flawed/tubed system? No way, Pedro.
Never been let down by tubeless; don’t carry a tube anymore; I get punctures but not flats!
Call me old fashioned but I’m less than enthusiastic about a tiny plug of dried sealant keeping my front tyre inflated as I rattle down a long incline at 60-70 kph, dodging the traffic.
mike the bike wrote:
Understandable but how is a vulnerable rubber tube any more secure? It can deflate fast; the sealant will prevent that.
If tubeless existed first, tubes would never be marketed or sold. Not a chance.
mike the bike wrote:
you can call me old fashioned too. Seems like a lot of Messing about to me. The cost is just getting ridiculous, It appears they just want to extract the cash from you no matter what. Same with the new Continental GP 5000 tyres. They’re a tenner more, GP 4000s II are dear enough. Disc brakes are another money spinner for them. The way they are going it’ll be as expensive as running a car. They are tanning the cyclists arse.
I switched to tubulars with
I switched to tubulars with my first carbon wheel set some 15 years ago for safety reasons. The quality of tubulars have so much improved over time that I was never tempted going back to clinchers. I agree that gluing a tubular is not everybody’s cup of tea, but the tubeless clinchers certainly also not. I am an average roadie doing around 8 to 10’000 km/year and a lot of my fellow club members followed suit in going to tubulars only when riding carbon wheels. I cannot understand the negative reporting sometimes and the little attention tubulars get these days.
Walo wrote:
I don’t race, never have but always hankered over tubs back to the days of the ubiquitous Mavic GP4s when my college mate had them for his club runs. I actually came into a pair of mint cond complete with virtually new tubs, one had a small puncture but I used tyre repair foam and this fixed it perfectly and instantly. I only used them a couple of times on my Gitane team replica but knew that my next top end wheel purchase were going to be tubs.
Bought some lovely Gigantex/FRM carbon from a German racer guy on ebay for silly money about 10 years ago, came with Conti 4000SIIs, even though I’m a big guy and the tubs were 22mm they were a noticeable improvement over my Mavic SSCs fitted with some lightweight tyres, that said I still think the best tyres I ever had in terms of ‘free’ speed were a pair of Maxxis Xneith Equipe Super Legere, fag paper thin but by god they felt fast with 55g tubes!.
Current deep tubs are Bora One’s with 25mm Conti comp on the front and 27mm Veloflex vlaanderen on the back, just lovely.
Tubeless is just too much hassle compared to clinchers for me, I rarely get punctures and the amount of grief and potential to be left stranded by not being able to get a tyre off is simply a massive put off, that’s on top of having to buy into a totally different wheel/tyre type and the fairly strict restrictions in place such as Mavic with their new open pros.
Walo wrote:
I’ve been on tubs for donkeys years, I’d never use any of the other options on the road. 23mm tubeless tyres at 110psi? No thanks, there’s no sealant in the world that’s going to work in those conditions. I put tubeless on my gravel bike and it’s a total fuck on; seating tyre beads, sealant glop, soapy water, sod that when I can glue a lighter tub on my much lighter rims in a few minutes. Roadside fixes are easy when you’ve got a preglued light tyre in your jersey pocket where an inner tube would normally be
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Road tubeless are arguably as safe as tubulars as the will not come off the rim in case of an immediate loss of air.
Nick T wrote:
Please do your homework first. Road tubeless tyres hardly come in 23mm, rather in 25mm and 28mm – or even wider. Mavic Pro UST 25mm have a max pressure of 87psi and a recommended pressure of 75psi. I’m 77kg and run mine between 75psi and 80psi, which is more than enough. The 28mm version of the said tyre runs at even lower pressures.
Boss Hogg wrote:
I’m 98kg and 87psi doesn’t cut the mustard, what about larger riders, I was 107kg at one point, if you think these max wheel pressures are going to suffice for us bigger types then you’re sadly mistaken. The new Open Pro is a fucking piss take to offer such a low max pressure, especially since it’s thinner at the braking surface than the last lot so it could keep the weight down (along with the scalloping)
You missed: tubeless slowly
You missed: tubeless slowly deflate whatever and need topping every week or two, tubeless do not necessarily “pop” when installed and that’s just fine. I am on tubeless for commuting (I do not race) and love it: light and puncture proof.
jerome wrote:
Exactly. I thought it was a good idea to go tubeless on the off-road wheels. The problem is, as you said, they need to be used constantly or they start to deflate as the sealant can evaporate over time in a warm room. I had my wheels sorted back in December, but then baby arrived, so haven’t touched the bike until early February. By that point, the off-road wheels were totally flat and there was not much sealant in it. Now, I try to go off-road once a week at least, to keep the stuff slushing around, but that is far from ideal.
Some good advices, but NEVER
Some good advices, but NEVER try to set up tubeless tire that is not meant for it.
Probably it will be ok, but it can also blow of the rim when you try to inflate with sealant inside… try to imagine how the workshop look after that, or does the rim stays true 🙂
Is there any point making a
Is there any point making a differentiation between tubeless and tubeless-ready? I don’t think so.Either you can run the tyre without a tube or you can’t.
I went tubeless in 2015 and have enjoyed the ride, I will never go back to rubber airbags that’s for sure. Stopping at the side of the road with a tyre issue is mostly a memory now. On the other hand I think it’s fair to say the maintenance load moves from beside the road to back in your workshop. I’m happy with that. Some routine maintenance is required, occasional sealant top-ups. For people who never want to touch their bike tubeless is not a good choice.
But don’t focus just on puncture-proofing. There’s a lovely ride quality with tubeless associated with the fact that it suits wider tyres and lower pressures. Neither does that mean being slow, it does not.
It requires a certain openness to change to adopt road tubeless and that rules a lot of roadies out.
How long does it take to set
How long does it take to set up tubeless? How many times per year do you need to top up or replace the sealant? When you add that time up and compare the figures with how long it actually takes to swap out a tube and re-inflate it (3 minutes if you’re slow), old-style clinchers save time and misery.
However, I will accept that tubeless set-ups start to make sense for a commuting bike in town on grotty roads or if you keep getting pinch-punctures because you insist on running overly low tyre pressures .
AllegedlyAnthony wrote:
Setting up tubeless can take quite a time if you don’t know what you’re doing.
I have spent hours trying to get a tyre to properly seat and it’s been either the valve or the rim tape not being installed correctly. However, now that I’ve made enough mistakes, it doesn’t take me long to figure out when it’s not working properly. Definitely longer than using tubes though I’ve ruined inner tubes by pinching them when installing.
Checking sealant – maybe 4 times a year? I’ve got the Milkit valves and it’s an easy 5-10 minute job to do both tyres. Tubeless tends to leak more air (could be mini punctures for all I know) so there’s more time spent inflating tyres as well.
However, for me, I don’t mind spending time fettling tyres if I can choose when to do it and not have it forced upon me whilst out riding, so I think of tubeless maintenance as performing rituals to appease the puncture fairies.
I’m confused about the actual
I’m confused about the actual difference between tubeless and tubeless-ready as I’m currently using Maxxis Padrones that should be “tubeless”, but they seem to drink the sealant. At one point I had the rear tyre losing air slowly, so I just put in more air and got home. When I examined the tyre, it was quite flat, so I pumped it up to look for any obvious hole and instead saw tiny bubbles of air escaping at lots of places around the sidewall. It turned out that it had “run out” of sealant as there wasn’t any left and when I popped in 40ml, the tyre was back to normal again. That sounds to me more like tubeless ready than tubeless.
Edit: just looked at my tyres and they’re actually Padrone-TR so they are tubeless-ready.
I’m 70kg and anything less
I’m 70kg and anything less than 100psi feels awful to me. I have the option of running my tubs at low pressures but no thanks, 75psi on the road is far too low for my taste, vague and mushy. Give it a few years and the trend will be for higher pressures again though
Nick T wrote:
Not a hope.
Plasterer’s Radio wrote:
Me niether. Anyone riding 23mm tubs at 110psi because they think it is more efficient has missed the last 2-3 years of development and testing. As he said – hes been riding them for donkeys years. You cant teach an old dog new tricks.
SantaCruzRing wrote:
Most people riding, even high end stuff don’t always ride for max efficiency, in fact ask how many riders actually check their tyre pressures before each ride and set them to max efficiency for their weight and weight distribution, it won’t be half IMO.
I kept my 22mm tubs and I will still have the back at over 120psi, might it not be the most efficient, well ultimately that depends on the terrain you’re riding on, even when comparing tests on a continuous uneven rolling ‘road’ the differences between high pressure narrow tyres and wider tyres at realistic pressures (because if you’re going with the wider tyre you won’t be pumping them up to same pressures as the narrower tyre right) the differences are minimal. This can be seen between the three conti 4000SII clincher tested by tyrerollingresistance.com. On roads that are actually relatively smooth like your local TT course, A roads and newly laid roads etc then the narrow high pressure tyre is still going to be more efficient/lose less energy than your wider tyre.
ATEOTD some people like the feel of a higher pressure tyre, it’s not necessarily not being able to teach old dogs new tricks but allowing people to choose what they want, same as with helmets, same as with tubeless, tubed or tubs and everything else. At least with tyres there’s more quantifiable evidence that states narrow high pressure tyres are still faster/more efficient in some circumstances, circumstances that many of us ride on even if not 100% of the time.
I have Mavic cosmic elite
I have Mavic cosmic elite wheels which came with yksion pro ust tyres that were mounted tubeless.
The set-up worked well and the couple of punctures I got sealed fine after a bit of a wait and was able to carry on after reinflating. It was a bit of a shock though as I previously used Marathon plus on which I had zero puncture in many years.
When it came to changing the rear one I found to my dismay that the choice is still super limited and prices really high at about £50 a piece. So went back to tubes with a tyre which claims a degree of puncture proctection.
I was a fan until I got
I was a fan until I got stranded in some godforsaken part of Scotland after the sealant wouldn’t plug a hole. Had to wait an hour for a taxi to rescue me. Tubeless works amazingly until it doesn’t. In our trade you need to be able to get back going 100% of the time, and that means the tried and trusted tube in the back pocket.
‘the sealant won’t seal all
‘the sealant won’t seal all holes above a certain size, generally about 6mm” I’d make that more like 3or4mm?….been running tubeless mtb for quite some time and happy …tried tubeless on my recreational road/gravel bike with some 30mm mavic tyres, no problem setting up as done a few times but the wheelset is now sat at back of garage and gone back to (see above ^^^) reliable swalbe marathons and tubes – glass cuts take an age to seal at road(ish) pressures (70psi) you get covered in jizz and then to make it worse they reopen if you bump down a kerb and you have to stop and put some pressure back in once its sealed again and if won’t seal push an anchovy in and wait and shake and then try and get the tyre off to put a tube in – so work great for thorns and nails but if you ride anywhere might encounter could well end in frustration
Can’t add much more to other
Can’t add much more to other comments, other than to say beware thinking you can easily take a tubeless tyre off at the roadside to insert an inner tube. There may be some wheel/tyre combinations that are better than mine, but removing a tubeless tyre is a long and frustrating process.
But, for communting I’ve taken to carrying a small tube of sealant, a couple of those funny little things you stick in a puncture hole and a CO2 can. Had a flat a few weeks ago that the sealant couldn’t cope aith, but a quick top-up with sealant, widget in hole, suirt of CO2 and I was on my way again.
Despite drawbacks I get far fewer flats, even though I know I get quite a few punctures (they don’t result in flats). For commuting in dark, cold, windy, rainy mornings I would truse tubeless over everything else.
For anyone interested, I use Hunt Carbon 32 Wide rims with either IRC Pro Tubeless X-Guard 28mm in the winter or Schwalbe Pro One 28s in the summer. I weigh 80kg and run them around 70 or 80 psi. Perfect.
MarkiMark wrote:
Pro 1’s are a nightmare to mount! Having said that, if they’ve been off before, it is a little easier to re-mount. The bead does seem a little more forgiving.
The key is all about the
The key is all about the wheelset you are using eg my Shimano tubeless were a nightmare whilst my Cannondale Stans rims were easy to fit. PS Worth keeping some of these bacon bits for those holes that won’t seal
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Genuine-Innovations-Unisex-Tubeless-Repair/dp/B00B139BA0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1552911100&sr=8-4&keywords=Tubeless+Tyre+Plug&linkCode=ll1&tag=shockwiz-21&linkId=30ee484209030357bfc87b053903b292&language=en_GB
PPS I would be keen to know how easy it is to add an inner tube to the Hunts as they provide a tyre fitting service which makes me think they are a pain to fit.
I never claimed it was more
I never claimed it was more efficient. I think it’s debatable which is actually more efficient, but I ride at high pressures because I’ve tried both and I prefer the feel of higher pressure. On one of my bikes 110 is the sweet spot. On two others it’s closer to 120. On my gravel bike with 38mm tyres it’s rarely over 40psi, and the feel on the road is horrible. Whatever you feel comfortable with is up to you, I’m not going to tell you another way is better – but if you think it’s only in the last 2-3 years of tyre and wheel development that the industry has finally cracked the mystery, you’d be mistaken
Some fair points here, most
Some fair points here, most of which are easy to offset with a bit of research and learning. Overall, if you rode around on a decent tubeless setup for a year, i reckon you can be pretty sure by the end of that year you would have spent a lot less time changing flats. Sure you can go for an armoured tire and tube setup, but that feels like riding round in pit boots compared to a decent tubeless setup with a high tpi carcass.
I’m pretty convinced about
I’m pretty convinced about the benefits of tubeless. Have been running then for a couple of years on Hunt wheels. Usually Hutchinson Fusion 5 all season 28mm in winter and the Fusion 5 Perfomance 25mm in summer. 2 punctures in 2 years is pretty good. First was a sidewall gash, so popped in an innertube and was off again in less than 5 mins. Second was last week, big gravel chip straight in, again 5 mins back on the road. I’m lazy, so top up Schwalbe sealant when I remember (maybe every 6 months), pump tyres up when they feel a bit soft.
I’m running these tyres at 90-100 PSI back and 80-90 PSI front on rough country roads with hedge cutting all winter, so I could be getting a lot of punctures but wouldn’t know and only care when it goes flat. Before tubeless I seemed to get a puncture every couple of rides. I weigh about 100kg so back wheels and tyres get a proper hammering
As for changing the tyres, it’s been pretty easy to date with both the Hutchinsons and a set of Mavics. Seating the tyres can be a pain so I invested in a new track pump with a reservoir that releases a blast up of air, so now it works every time.
Upside (for me anyway) less punctures, less innertubes waiting for ‘repair’, running 28/25mm tyres is great on rough roads
Downside – tyres are fairly expensive, still carry an innertube, sealant makes a mess.
Nice article, I’d highlight
Nice article, I’d highlight a few other salient points.
If you ride offroad MTB, CX or gravel then running tubeless is critical for wet, mud or sand harsh conditions that require lower tire pressures to maintain grip and avoid pinch flats. If you dont ride offroad then tradeoff of protection from external debres may or may not be worth the bother especially for road use.
The other issue I run into is wanting to change tires for different offroad terrain and weather conditions (dry, wet, mud, rocky, sand). If you only have 1 wheel set then swapping tubeless becomes a PITA and expensive. Best for tubeless is to leave them on and dont mess with them except to top off fluid.
Finally, if you have a ding in your alu rim as I do then fitting may be harder.
If you want to run tubeless and have the flexibility to swap tires when you want then its worth going full enchilada – Invest in tubeles ready tires and rims that fit well together, get your own pump and supplies and learn to do it yourself.
Adam
I like tubular – the set I
I like tubular – the set I had on my Zipp 808s were lovely to ride… until I got a puncture. I sold those wheels very quickly. I don’t have a support car or rescue vehicle and if anyone thinks that it’s hard fixing a puncture in a tubeless tyre by the roadside try getting a deflated tub off.
All my bikes are going tubeless and I have no regrets.
Did you use rim tape to mount
Did you use rim tape to mount them? That can be difficult to remove. Vittoria mastik glue breaks off relatively easily, I can do it by hand but tyre levers will help. I can pull the old tyre off and fit the spare quicker than I can remove a clincher
I guess I must just be lucky,
I guess I must just be lucky, I’ve just tried going ‘ghetto tubeless’ because I had the bit’s required just laying around. Mounted up some 40mm Schwalbe G-One clinchers onto Mavic Aksium rims without too much trouble, used a home made air compressor using a 2 litre drinks bottle to get the blast of air to seat the tyres. Had a few small leaks but a bit of shaking the wheels aruond solved those. I do lose about 4-5 psi over 24 hours but seeing as most of my rides are only 3-4 hours long not a problem.
dave_t wrote:
With the low pressures you’re probably using with those 40mm tyres, it’s less of an issue – plenty of people i’ve heard of running ghetto tubeless sucessfully, one way or another for ‘cross and off-road where you’re probably running 20-40psi. Roll-off is not unheard of, but not really heard of a tyre blowing off otherwise. Trying to ghetto, e.g. a 25mm tyre on a narrower rim at 70-90psi is another matter – don’t think anyone would recommend that.
fukawitribe wrote:
Yeah you’re right, I’m using 40-45 psi. Seeing as I’ve got all the parts to try ghetto on a 25mm might give it a go just for the hell of it. Think I’ll do it outside though and stand well back when I hit the tyre with the blast air!
Two punctures in the first
Two punctures in the first two miles of last year’s Ride London made me go tubeless. Hunt kindly installed the tyres onto my new road bike wheels and I have not looked back. I now also have them on the Kinesis gravel bike with 30mm tyres and have run them at 30psi across some of the roughest parts of Dartmoor – I recommend topping up before going back on the road though as descents were a bit sketchy at that pressure!
Tried tubeless on two
Tried tubeless on two different wheelsets sets and 3 different tyres. All failed.
The first was on Bontrager rims with Bontrager TLR tyres. The bike shop really struggled to fit them – took a lot of time and they were clearly frustrated. Soon after, I had a major puncture which released all of the sealant. I tried fitting a tube but could not get the tyre to reseat. Ride over and wife called. Tyre binned.
Second was with the above rims but with Schwalbe One tyres. Super difficult to fit and like the TLR’s – heavy. They lasted about 1500kms before I flatted. Found that sealant had hardened after a couple of months.
Gave up for a while with tubeless but then tried Schwalbe pro-ones on new Reynolds carbon rims. Very difficult to fit even with a new tubeless track pump, although managed to seat one tyre after many attempts. Had no luck seating the other tyre with the pump or at the local service station so went to local bike shop. They used compressed air like the servo and managed to finally seat the rear after several attempts and by removing the valve core. Soon after I decided to sell the rims. Front tyre was difficult to remove but got it off. The rear required a vice and a blade to cut it off the rim (carefully). How I was ever going to get it off on the side of the road is anyones guess.
Until there are major changes, tubeless is a major fail in my personal experience.
LesP wrote:
There is a common factor in your troubles.
My tubeless record:
My tubeless record:
Hutchinson Intensive lasted 5 years on the font wheel. 2 punctures that I am aware of: 1st without sealant (a stupid experiment), tube in roadside and carried on, repaired with standard patch at home; 2nd 4 years later, a piece of wire that worked itself between the rubber tread layer and the carcase, which I only noticed when I got home after a day out as there was a bulge on the tyre. The tread was so thin at that point that is came away in pieces when I started investigating. A bit of a pig to mount when new but the Spa Cyles video method helped out, no need to resort to levers and managed to mount the bead back on at side of road in winter cold too. As it got older became easier to mount.
Bontrager R3 TLR that only lasted a year as sidewall slashed. Very easy to mount.
Pro One that has lasted for over 2years: no punctures that I am aware of so far. Easy to mount.
Huntchinson Fusion 5 All Season got 1 puncture (about 4-5mm, glass slash) that the sealant failed to plug above about 40psi. Has been repaired at home (tube in at roadside etc.) and is back on duty at the front. Fairly easy to mount.
All on Stan’s Alpha rims.
The seating thing is the only part that has ever caused me grief, but now I just slosh in some sealant and shake about a bit and then give it some with the track pump. Works every time. Might get the odd dribble of sealant escaping in that process but nothing major. I keep thinking about getting a tank but as this works with my setup I probably won’t.
I know it’s off topic to talk about the benefits of tubeless here but the main thing for me is the comfort and feel. I had Gatorskins before, that I loved for their toughness, but now I know from experience that they are seriously wooden in comparison to any of the above. Particularly at the +100psi I was running them at. I am around 80kg, so run around 80-85 psi on the front 25mm tyre and 85-90psi on the rear 27mm (both measured, both different brands… I know, that might offend some 😉 ).
Ad Hynkel wrote:
It’s quite easy to Make Your Own Tubeless Inflator from a 2 litre drinks bottle. Took me about 30 minutes and works beautifully!
My tubeless record:
My tubeless record:
I have 2 bikes both set up tubeless, both using Hunt’s 4 season disc wheels.
One is shod with IRCs excellent roadlite 25mm tyre and has done 4300miles. The other with Schwalbe S-One (now the G-One I believe) 30mm and has done 3600miles.
Fitting was relatively straight forward using Tesa rim tape and the soapy water on the rim method, I inflated them using an Airshot tubeless inflator. I use the Milkit tubeless valves which allow me to check/top up the sealant without having to fully deflate the tyre every couple of months.
2 punctures (1 in each wheelset), the first was an unwound paperclip that had worked it’s way into the tyre once removed the puncture sealed perfectly and hasn’t caused any issues since. The second was a bit more tricky and needed the application of a tyre worm, again once in and the tyre re-inflated it hasn’t given me any issues.
To be honest my experience of tubeless has been nothing but positive, so far no standing by the roadside trying to shove a tube in where it won’t go nor have I had a puncture that won’t seal. The worst experience I’ve had is having to peal dried sealant of several bits of the bike after it sprayed all over the place before I could get the worm in.
Regarding CO2 and latex
Regarding CO2 and latex sealant – I did a bit of googling and found out that the main reason that you don’t want to use CO2 and latex sealant is due to the cold-shock of the CO2 that makes the latex start to polymerise (turn into little balls).
So, apparently (untested by me so far) you can get better results if you place the valve at the top of the wheel (i.e. 12 o’clock position) and let the sealant pool at the bottom. That way, the CO2 should warm up a little bit before hitting the sealant.
Just gone tubeless on my N+1
Just gone tubeless on my N+1 killer/DIA bike. £300 so not cheap but I needed new wheels anyway as I wanted to go down to 650B on that bike. Most of the riding I do on it is on sandy gravel tracks in and around the New Forest so it really needed fatter, lower pressure rubber.
Apart from doing a fantastic Mike Stead-inspired Pollocking of the shed with 4oz of Orange Seal it’s gone very well. Top tip with the Milkit system – read the instructions and don’t think “Oh I’ve taken the valve core out so the tyre must be flat, right?”
I’m running WTB Senderos which are about as chunky as you can get on a road bike running mudguards. Deal with deep mud and sand just fine. Can’t really fault them. Set up really easy on a set of FSA Afterburner wheels which looked fantastic for about 5 minutes until they saw some mud. Injecting a huge amount of fun into autumn/winter riding for me and they handle well on the road too. Very satisfying thrum at speed on smooth tarmac and I’ve yet to find any terrain they can’t cope with. Now my only ride hazards are tree branches, deer, and squirrels. Gonna need a bike wash though…
Also, it’s quite a revelation being able to run 40psi and not have the tyre roll off the rim or snakebite a tube. Good fun cornering at speed on these tyres, feels a bit like drifting in Mario Kart! Very definitely need to set up your line but I seem to be able to lean more than on road tyres (on tarmac). Reminds me of my Raleigh Grifter!
I’m pretty sure the local mountain bikers (there’s a bike park where I ride) are looking at me funny, and I suspect at the bottom of this rabbit hole is a hardtail trail bike, but its a huge amount of fun. Come spring and I can go back on skinnier rubber – probably Byway or Horizon or one of the Compass tyres.
I’ve tried them, I found them
I’ve tried them, I found them to be about as useful as tits on a fish, the original 2 sets I had, are all in the bin now, I got about a couple of hundred miles out of them, never again.
Judge dreadful wrote:
What were you doing with ‘them’ ? Indeed, what are ‘them’ ?
When you witness it happening
Hello, is that you Boatsie?
Hasn’t road.cc told us what
Hasn’t road.cc told us what they don’t tell us about tubeless quite a few times now?
Article needs a thorough update before they run it again in a month. Some pro teams are using tubeless this year, I think there have been a few wins on it. There’s loads of tyre choice now. As for the rest of the scare stuff, traditionalists are never going to like tubeless. Or wide tyres. Or disc brakes. And so on.
Never been tempted by
Never been tempted by tubeless. If you buy good quality tyres and keep them pumped up hard you wont get many punctures if any. I use Michelin Pro 4 Endurance and never had a puncture.
hobbeldehoy wrote:
The Pro4 Endurance is indeed a tyre that breaks all the rules. It somehow combines lightness with toughness and manages to be both long-lasting and grippy. I’ve just jettisoned my second consecutive pair, only because they were worn down to nothing after about 6000 miles of all-season work.
Unfortunately the Pro4 is now obsolete and its successor the Michelin Power lacks the all-round puncture protection layer so it isn’t for me. I’m also wary of buying years-old Pro4s from stock; I’ve found in the past that unused tyres don’t last for ever and begin to craze and crack after a while.
Instead, I’ve just bought Pirelli’s new Cinturato, it gets a brilliant write-up on bicyclerollingresistance.com and I’m hoping they will repay their frightening £80 cost.
hobbeldehoy wrote:
Indeed – if you’re not that fussed about ride quality, wood’s very good like that too. Also sustainable.
The rolling resistance thing
The rolling resistance thing isn’t necessarily true, clincher GP5000s with latex tubes have lower rolling resistance than tubeless GP5000s.
Might go tubeless on the winter bike/commuter, but for the nice bikes latex tubes are simpler and cleaner. No punctures to date on summer roads or winter CX courses!
My take.
My take.
Tubeless with discs? Yes. The low pressure/bigger contact patch complements the extra power of hydraulics perfectly.
Tubeless with rim brakes? No. The extra faff isn’t worth it & the rim brakes won’t be able to take advantage of the extra grip.
Disclaimer. I live in the Dales. Braking power is highly desirable, especially in the (regular) wet.
Also not mentioned. Need to replace a worn tyre? New sealant required too £.
Finish Line Kevlar sealant does seem to last as long as the tyre.
IMO
Some good points in the
Some good points in the article, mostly that tubeless is difficult and pointless for bicycles. It adds weight and the “sealant” dries out every couple of months. Why complicate something unnecessarily? Is it the Emperor’s new clothes? Again?
dobs wrote:
It not a faff if you know what you are doing.
Regarding weight, they probably weigh less than having an inner tube.
To me it’s all about personal
To me it’s all about personal experience.
Some claim that their tubeless tyres were easy to fit, simple to inflate and seat the beads on and they haven’t suffered a puncture since.
Others experience is the polar opposite.
And that’s the problem. In theory they are everything you would want – easy to install, simple maintenance which can be carried out at home in a warm garage rather than by the side of the road in the cold and rain. They’re lighter (hmmn), can be run at lower pressure, provide a more comfortable ride and above all else will pretty much do away with the scourge of all cyclists – punctures.
Except they don’t. The reality can be very hit and miss. Yes, sure you’ll find converts who swear by them who’ve never had an issue, but when they do, which they inevitably will some day, then the benefits can be outweighed by the downside.
An example. I have three or four mates who just keep banging on about how brilliant tubeless are. And I’m sure they really do think they are. But, in the last few months I’ve been riding with 3 of them who have suffered punctures that won’t seal. Last one was on Tuesday. It took nigh on 20 mins before we were riding again. Why? Because of the 3 people on tubeless all making suggestions as to what he should do. I’ve read up extensively on the subject and had a pretty good idea of what he needed to do. He is old school and thought ‘just putting a tube in there’ was the solution.
So he starts to remove his back wheel and then others chirp up about will you be able to get the tyre off? And back on? Have you got strong enough tyre levers? You know you’ve got to take the valve out right? Have you got the tool to do that? And so it goes on.
Eventually they decided to find the hole and sure enough it was about a 2-3mm split/ hole/ damage. The sealant couldn’t seal it because 1. The hole was too big and 2. At road pressures the vast majority of the sealant was now deposited on the road in a stream and all over the rear of his bike (winter bike with full guards), including all over his brake disc rotor.
Being told of the pitfalls of removing the tyre and the valve etc etc he started to feel a lot less confident and was getting his phone put to call for his wife. I merely stated that he just needed a worm and some sealant and a method to pump it back up. Trouble is, he didn’t carry worms or the kit required to install one, or any sealant.
Lucky, one of the other riders did, so they then proceeded to fit a worm (neither of them having done it before and unsure of the correct technique). One had to be warned about poking the sharp tool straight into the tyre and possibly damaging the rim tape, so he then proceeded to push it through at a shallow angle. Success.
Now he needed some fluid as mentioned before most of his was now not in the tyre. Luckily, mate no2 was well prepared and carrying the right kit including a small bottle of sealant. I had to laugh as he had one of those fake bottle storage tool kits which was FULL of kit for fixing tubeless punctures and a spare tube! Yep, MUCH lighter than a simple lightweight tube and a tyre patch! Not.
so they get the sealant in and then he finds he can’t get it to inflate with his minipump, so mate no5 (old school, full size frame pump!) comes to the rescue and the tyre is inflated. We are off again.
So, that was 20mins of faffing, agreed that some of that was down to incompetence, but his ‘plan A’ was simply to bang a tube in there. I suspect we would have stood there even longer as he broke successive tyre levers removing the tyre (he said it was a pig to fit originally). And no doubt with cold, wet hands and increasing frustration levels, egged on by the relentless piss taking by the onlookers (de rigour non?) would more than likely have pinched the replacement tube trying to get the last bit of the bead over the rim.
This is one anecdote from the three I have had the (dis)pleasure to witness first hand. All were similar in that the supposed benefits failed when the sealant failed to seal. One of the other two did require a phone call and a very long drive for a very angry missus.
The argument that tubeless had prevented ‘lord knows how many’ punctures that they didn’t even know about may well be true, but unless they inspect their tyres for the thorns etc that are still in them they will never know! I’ve had two punctures running tubes tyres in the last two years. Both fixed roadside (one in the freezing cold and wet) in approx 5 mins. No tyre levers required, simply put the tyre in the well and ‘work’ the opposite side over the rim. Remove the cause, tyre boot if you have too (I haven’t EVER used mine yet), put in new tube, bang in a CO2 cartridge and jobs a good ‘un.
The problem I have is that there is no standard yet so rim and tyre combos are hit and miss. There are too many variables from tyres that are so tight you can even get them on the rim at home, rims which don’t need tape to ones that need more than one layer. Tyres and rim combos that once you have them on the rim you can pump up with a mini pump to others that just won’t seat after two hours with a track pump, a shock pump, a 2ltr coke bottle pump(!) to an airline with compressor.
And then you’ve got sealant, most of which will not seal at road pressures (so it drops significantly before it actually seals) and then if you pump it back up it can blow the plug out (happened with one of my other mates when he tried to top up his tubeless at the cafe stop after it had eventually sealed roadside), which dries out over time so needs to be checked, topped up regularly and makes a bloody mess of everything as it sprays out. And going back to my anecdote, do you think his disc brake pads are now ruined due to the contamination by latex sealant? I donno…
So, to summarise when they work they may well be great. When they don’t, they may well still be great, but when they don’t, they may end up being terminal roadside. The same can’t be said for clinchers with tubes. There are tight tyres and loose tyres but you can pretty much 100% of the time get a new tube in, seat the tyre and inflate it to carry on with your ride. That’s why I haven’t been convinced to change yet.
PP
@Pilot Pete – two things.
@Pilot Pete – two things.
How did he get sealant onto his brake disc? My experience is that the latex gets sprayed over your down-tube and front mech (assuming a rear wheel puncture), so it shouldn’t go near the discs.
The special tool for removing the valve is known as “fingers”.
hawkinspeter wrote:
He was on his winter bike with full guards. His bum stayed completely clear of all latex sealant I am glad to report, however, the rear guard which caught all the spray then allowed it all to drip out all over the chain stays and rear caliper/ rotor. Let’s not forget that a big selling point is tubeless on a winter bike which prevents trying to fix punctures in the cold and wet…
As he left the valve in, electing not to fit his spare tube he needed to remove the core to refill with sealant. This needed a tool, which luckily our mate was carrying.
Like I said, horses for courses, if you get numerous punctures then I can see the potential benefit. I’ve had so few that it just doesn’t stack up to being worth it for me. Can’t remember my last puncture on the summer bike. It all depends where you ride and what sort of crap you get on your local roads, so once again horses for courses.
As for rolling resistance, unless you are competing it makes sod all difference. If I get to a junction in front of my mates because of my decreased rolling reactance I will just have to stop and wait. Alternatively I can just ride ever so slightly slower and stay with them, so I get home ever so slightly less tired. Makes no odds to me.
And reduced pressures? I used to ride round on tubs and then 23mm clinchers with 100/110psi, I now ride 25mm tyres with 75/85psi on th summer bike and 28mm 4Seasons with 75/80psi on the winter bike and haven’t needed tubeless to do that, and haven’t suffered any pinch flats doing it either. I freely admit that the reduced pressures are beneficial in terms of comfort, but I’ve proved to myself that I don’t need to go tubeless to achieve that benefit.
PP
Pilot Pete wrote:
Sounds like he must have had loads of sealant in there for it be able to drip from mudguards onto disks. Myself, I wouldn’t worry about it as the latex should just get abraded away (not an expert, though).
Removing a valve core does usually require a tool. I’ve got a tiny plastic thingy (came with the MilkIt kit IIRC) that can fit onto the valve body – always available.
@PP some good anecdotes in
@PP some good anecdotes in there, I pretty much agree with your views. Clinchers and tubes are very simple and as long as you’re carrying enough patches or spare innertubes.
For me personally, after three or more years of running road tubeless, I can tell you I’ve made seemingly all the mistakes someone could make in the setup and maintenance of tubeless. I’ve also experienced one of the oft mentioned but rarely seen sidewall pinch flat and had seeping sidewalls tyre failures which reminded me of some sort of religious artifact.. oh and don’t get me started on brands of useless sealants purporting to be magical.
Weight is about the same tubeless or tubed.
Grip I have no idea about as I rarely go out to test grip.
Comfort is something I can attest to, tubeless instantly allows you to drop tyre pressure, so I went from 90-105 psi range to 80-90psi range.
Anecdotally I can attest to rolling resistance too, as I’m a long-standing rollers user, I have my own historical data going back a bit.. fitted tubeless tyres to the same prior tubed wheelset at the same PSI (110), resulting in an ‘instant’ not insignificant increase in speed for the same HR/Cadence cost. I jumped from 29mph in my standard 10 min warmup to 34mph simply by fitting tubeless. I’m not saying they make me any faster out on the road, but I’d be very surprised if they hadn’t made some small difference.
I can also attest to getting punctures and not noticing them. I’ll estimate that I reckon tubeless has solved 8 out of 10 punctures I’ve had. Sometimes a hole won’t seal as quickly as I’d like and sometimes a load of air comes out before it seals, I’ve ridden home on 25psi before. But if you consider that I’ve saved the faff of changing eight innertubes by the roadside then that makes me feel pretty good.
On longer rides, I carry with me, 1x small bottle of sealant (about 40ml of liquid), one valve core remover, one set of worms, one mini pump. I’ve learned too much to go back to tubes and accept it’s failings alongside the benefits.
Thing about tubeless fails,
Thing about tubeless fails, you notice them, whereas tubeless successes, it can be that you don’t notice them at all. I have 5 years on tubeless now and love the compliant ride and low rolling resistance (which is something else they don’t tell you about tubeless) and have abandoned rubber bags completely.
Pro tip for gettting tight tyres off a rim: use three tyre levers. Two isn’t enough because they don’t get enough length of bead over the rim. Insert three evenly spaced levers and if you’re deft enough with your hands and arms to use them simultaneously, you can lift a long section of bead over the rim so that the bead tension is lost and you can just pull the rest off.
Lots of ‘doing it wrong’
Lots of ‘doing it wrong’ examples in PP’s notes above, including far too much sealant if it’s dripping from anywhere other than a tyre.
Cantilever brakes are more simple than dual-pivot caliper brakes, disc brakes are just a bit different but they all do the same thing.. pro’s and con’s.. some people may not like the added faff of the dual-pivot brakes over canti’s, so why change to discs if you can brake well enough with canti’s. I get it, it’s horses for courses. PP has had his mind made by it appears three mates who are all appear to be doing something a bit wrong, it’s a shame though as the people I know who ‘run and like tubeless’ do see it as an upgrade in the most part. Those I know who try it and don’t like it usually have tended to do something wrong or have had some bad luck.
I’m worried about these
I’m worried about these tubeless problems now as my probable next bike comes with tubeless as standard.
As I’m over 70 with arthritic hands, fitting a replacement tube in a clincher takes me at least 30 mins rather than the 5 quoted here. It sounds like I’d never get a tubeless tyre off a rim.
But I’m surprised at how many punctures people have, I’ve had 2 in the last 25k miles. I do run Durano Plus as puncture protection is my No 1 criteria for tyres.
Kapelmuur wrote:
I agree. I have Conti GP GT on my commute bike and have had 2 punctures in 6,000km on one pair of tyres!
I also have a disc groupset and tubeless-compatible wheels ready to go on a ( Mason Definition | Fairlight Strael | Kinesis 4S Disc), but having heard numerous disc brakes squealing in the recent rain, am minded to return the groupset and wheels for a refund, then continue to ride my Kinesis T3 with rim brakes and clinchers, which to be fair is still a great bike.
Irrespective of the comments
Irrespective of the comments from tubeless enthusiasts why are tyres and tubes still overwhelmingly the preferred choice?
hobbeldehoy wrote:
Cheaper and more tried and tested. Also it’s the default option for bikes.
hobbeldehoy wrote:
If tubes are so great why are they not used on cars or motorbikes? Given the length of time it takes to roll new innovations out (where you either get a new bike with them on or consciously choose to adopt them early) is it surprising that they are the preferred choice? It just takes time. In the meantime, continue with tyres and tubes if it suits, it really doesn’t matter to anyone else if that’s your bag.
WDG wrote:
Maybe because tubeless works on cars and motorbikes? Bicycles, however, seem to need sealant to make it work. If sealant was so good…
Sriracha wrote:
[b]If tubes are so great why are they not used on cars or motorbikes?[/b] Given the length of time it takes to roll new innovations out (where you either get a new bike with them on or consciously choose to adopt them early) is it surprising that they are the preferred choice? It just takes time. In the meantime, continue with tyres and tubes if it suits, it really doesn’t matter to anyone else if that’s your bag.
— WDG Maybe because tubeless works on cars and motorbikes? Bicycles, however, seem to need sealant to make it work. If sealant was so good…— hobbeldehoy
“Tubeless” bicycle tyres don’t need sealant, “Tubeless Ready” tyres – which are the majority – do. Tubeless Ready trades off compliance with the need for sealant to maintain air integrity. Sealant is also used in car, motobike and other ‘tubeless’ implementations – most usually post-puncture though, e.g. an increasing number of car spare tyres are being replaced with 12V pumps with inline sealant canisters.
My mind hasn’t really been
My mind hasn’t really been made up by people ‘doing it wrong’, I can see through that and beyond that. I’ve already listed many of the reasons why they just don’t seem worth it to me currently.
My mate got sealant all over his disc rotor because the hole was too big to seal at road pressure, hence the spray of sealant, which was contained somewhat by the mudguard and then splattered down over the chainstays and brake caliper/ disc rotor. He had the recommended amount in the tyre when it punctured.
I just don’t see it as an upgrade for me yet. I say yet because it may be in time – I’m thinking when there is a standard rim and tyre bead design, which makes them easy enough to fit and dismount and makes sure they pop onto the rim shoulders as you inflate them, preferably with just a sharp few pumps on a track pump. Also, when they have designed a sealant which actually works at road pressures rather than spraying everywhere until the pressure has dropped to mountain bike pressures or below. And a sealant which doesn’t blow out again if you inflate it back up to road pressure, or one that doesn’t react to CO2 (or a new ‘tubeless specific’ inflator cyclinder gas).
So for me, the supposed benefits just aren’t game changing enough yet when I way up the pros and cons. This may well change in the future, but I think the industry needs to progress the technology further before I will be convert. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not averse, I’m just more than happy with my current setup and as others have said, I too am amazed at how many punctures people claim to get!
PP
On my MTB I used Stans Rims,
On my MTB I used Stans Rims, Stans tubless kit and Sealer and Schwalbe tubless tyres however, that didn’t stop sealant perforating out of the sidewalls and ‘burping’ on the rim, scrubbing the sealant off the inside of the tyres when swapping them out was almost impossible and took an eternity, I did everything by the book but hated every minute of it.
Too much faff for not a lot.
Too much faff for not a lot. Im sticking with inner tubes and continental gatorskin tyres. One flat in three years and 25,000 km
iandon wrote:
No faff but if tubes and tyres work for you, stick with ’em. No one should be telling anyone else what tyres to use – likewise it’s pretty pointless telling people what not to use if it’s working for them. Not sure why people get quite so het up about it, although it can get a bit irritating being repeatedly told what a pain X, Y or Z is, often by people with little or no experience of things. Use what you like.
run fairly thin treaded fast
run fairly thin treaded fast rolling tyres even on the commute bike, I’ve never really given much consideration for puncture resistance aside from when gatorskins came out and I got a sharks tooth flint that did for me when I was 16 miles from home and was so cocky/confident about the tyres I didn’t take a tube/pump/levers (yeah what a d@@k!), luckily I got a lift back most of the way from a WVM of all people. aside from lesson learnt it’s meant I went back to what I knew.
That I get the odd puncture now and again doesn’t bother me, I ride with time in hand going places I need to be for a certain time so a puncture isn’t going to mess that up, inconvenient, of course. Also that means I don’t need to consider tubeless, especially since the tube/normal tyre/normal wheels set up works, and it works easily 99.9999% of the time for most people, it’s a simple and a very tried and tested method that is foolproof.
I was a tubeless fan. I’ve
I was a tubeless fan. I’ve been running tubeless on my of-road bike for a couple of years, using Hunt wheels and Panaracer tyres. I don’t know about the times I may have had a puncture which self-healed but I doubt there have been any, tbh. On three occasions exactly the same thing happend. I’d be cycling off-road, along a gravel trail, and I hear air escaping from my rear wheel. I look back and see sealant spraying out. I keep riding and the noise stops and I assume the puncture has healed. A bit further on, the same thing happens. I examine the tyre and can see the sealant escaping from a tiny hole in the tread of the tyre. I keep cycling and the tyre goes completely flat. I try and pump it up but there are now gaps between the tyre and the rim so a hand pump is pretty useless. On all three occasions this has happened miles from home.
In the end I pop in an inner tube and am back in business. The first couple of time I bought new tyres. The first tyre was only weeks old but was useless with that hole which couldn’t be sealed. I tried the tubeless repair kit but they’re pretty hopeless. A plug of rubber works great in a car tyre which is made of thick rubber/compound. A bike tyre is less than a couple of mms thick so a plug really isn’t a practical solution. Just picture it. Today was the third time it happened and I made a decision to go back to using inner tubes. When tubeless fails, it fails big time and is messy.
I’m going back to what I used before I went tubeless. Inner tubes with slime.
would a flexible resin that
would a flexible resin that can fill holes and bond to the existing rubber be an option to repair tubeless tyres?
CyclingInBeastMode wrote:
I’ve used wetsuit repair glue which takes 24 hours to set as rubber, but I suspect that it’s not ideal for roadside repairs. The “anchovies” that are used for more immediate repairs are made of rubber (I think) and the idea is that they end up bonding to the tyre (if they don’t fall out as soon as you inflate because the hole was too big for them).
Just take the tyre off and
Just take the tyre off and put a conventional tube patch over the hole on the inside of the tyre on the conventional way. Done it a dozen or so times with no problems.
After two years of running
After two years of running tubeless on my commuter (approx 6000-7000 miles) I am thinking of changing back.
I only changed to tubeless ‘because I could’ (new rims) and because I like to try new things! I have been impressed with the ‘feel’ and comfort, but this may have been down to the width and volume of the Schwalbe Pro One tyres I have been using, which in ’25mm’ form come up more like 27/28mm on my rims. Hutchinson Fusion tubeless tyres I used for a while were much less comfortable (and 25mm wide in 25mm form). I never suffered from punctures with my old ‘tubed’ setup with Durano tyres that went on for miles and miles so I didn’t go tubeless due to punctures with tubes fitted.
My reasons for changing back are:
1. Since going tubeless I have spent more ‘workshop time’ faffing with tyres than I ever did before – okay some of this is due to having to replace the Pro One tyres more often as they wear out too quickly, but each time I do anything with the tubeless setup it takes much longer – so much more faff time than with a tube – and that’s if it seats straight away. With new tyres I find I have to leave them inflated with a tube fitted, overnight, to ‘stretch’ the new tyre. So fitting a new tyre becomes a weekend job, rather than just something you could do on a weekday evening. This is impractical for a bike you need every day.
2. Each time I have removed a tubeless tyre, the sealant has all been dried out. The only way you can find out if the latex is still liquid is either by getting a puncture or by removing the tyre. With an inner tube I just fit and forget. On my commuter I don’t want a tyre setup that requires a quarterly tyre removal and inspection!
3. Getting some tyres to seat, or re-seat is too finickity and un-reliable. The method I use on new tyres mostly works, but other times has not worked, even for used tyres. I use a tyre booster to inflate (no way just a track pump would work) but during my latest ‘faffing’ session even this would not work. Had to resort to a tube for now.
4. I don’t really like the idea of liquid sloshing around in my tyres (whilst it stays liquid anyway!).
5. I appreciate that many small punctures may have been sealed without my knowledge but to me these are ‘dormant failures’ potentially storing themselves up for a bigger failure later on (which is what happened recently, due to the sealant drying out).
6. No matter how neat, tidy and careful you are, it is still messy. Each time I remove a tubeless tyre that I am going to re-fit, my ‘OCD’ tells me I have to clean off the old dried latex. This takes ages and is also messy.
7. Tyre choice is more limited than tubed clinchers. Hence why I have been using Pro One tyres on my commuter! I have struggled to find good ‘endurance road’ tubeless tyres.
8. It is more expensive.
9. I think on balance it is slightly heavier.
10. Taping the rims is also a faff and finickity. A challenge to get it smooth and bubble free. Usually results in lots of wasted tape! Another job where it is best to insert a tube and leave overnight to smooth out the tape!
I could probably think of more but it feels like the ‘cons’ outweigh the ‘pros’ by some margin. I might try some Schwalbe One (tubeless) for a while to see if they wear better, but only if I can get them seated properly after say three attempts. That’s my new limit! Previously it was only limited by lack of arm strength after spending all day ‘pumping’!
Maybe in the near future, rim and tyre bead standards will be rationalised and everything will be much easier. Even so, many of the above ‘problems’ would still exist!
To each his own. I also run
To each his own. I also run a tubeless setup on my commuter/gravel bike, run it with wide (38 mm) and very thin/supple tyres (René Herse Barlow pass) and am happy. Had 2 punctures with it (that I know of) over the past 6 months and in both cases it sealed well, I lost maybe 15 psi, had to top up after the ride but could make it home. Rode about 6 k km in that time so not too bad I’d say.
I run at 38 psi with that tyre width, that probably influences effectiveness too. Not so sure that it would be a great idea on a 25 mm tyre at high pressure.
It requires a bit more maintenance than an inner tube setup but that can be done from the comfort of your home and there’s no more changing inner tubes by the roadside in the dark.
Pedant mode: Can I just
Pedant mode: Can I just point out the paradox of tubeless’ claim to offer “no more punctures”.
You will still puncture – ie an object will still penetrate the tyre. What you might not get is a ‘deflation’. Anyway, carry on.
Thatsnotmyname wrote:
Just to be clear, you will always suffer from ‘deflation’ if you’ve got air in your tyres whether you’re using inner tubes or tubeless and regardless of punctures.
What you want to avoid is a ‘rapid deflation event’.
I’ve just checked my
I’ve just checked my maintenance records.
Since the last puncture on each bike:
-road bike 5600km
-tourer 5100km
-mtb 3000km
-gravel 1650km
All on clinchers (Conti GP4000 , 4 Seasons, Schwalbe One).
I haven’t had to fix a puncture since 07.17. If it goes on much longer I will have forgotten how. I reckon 5minutes to change a tube and pump the tyre up and half that time is unpacking and repacking the little saddle bag.
I may not have fixed a puncture but I have changed tyres often enough and it only takes a couple of minutes. When I read the article here and the problems some have had with tubeless you can bet I won’t be changing anytime soon.
(Now I’ve written all that I hope sod’s law doesn’t get to work this afternoon.)
Dingaling wrote:
Hold on a minute, you have maintenance records!
What kind of human are you? Part man, part spreadsheet?
peted76 wrote:
Yep. Spreadsheets galore. Only way to know how many kms chains, cassettes and tyres are good for and lots of other useless information.
Dingaling wrote:
I tried giving up spreadsheets for 40 days. It was excel-lent.
Ouch!
Ouch!
The trouble with articles
The trouble with articles like this is they reinforce negative impressions and bolster prejudice.
I have been running tubeless for a few years now and there are positives apart from puncture protection. You can run lower pressure and get more comfort and grip with little to no increase in rolling resistance. Also, tubeless gives a lovely ride feel. Not long ago I tried wheels with 23mm tyres and tubes at 100psi and was shocked at how wooden they felt. That was on high-end kit too.
The price argument is weak now that there’s a lot of tubeless choice and discounting.
The trouble with comments
The trouble with comments like yours is they reinforce positive impressions and bias towards tubeless while ignoring the negative facts so people can balance the pros and cons by themselves.
For myself, I find there’s a huge imbalance in terms of cost and time. But I get it, you feel on top of the game by just ‘doing’ it despite its stupidity.
‘You can run lower pressure
‘You can run lower pressure and get more comfort and grip with little to no increase in rolling resistance’. Really?
I have invented an electricity generator that produces more power than it consumes – honest!!!!
Actually, this claim can be
Actually, this claim can be accurate, as you don’t need to overcome the hysteresis of an inner tube.
It’s still a hell of a lit easier just to swap an inner tube once in a while than to arse about with tyres that don’t fit and hortible sticky goo, though…
Popped into my friends LBS on
Popped into my friends LBS on the way home from a ride today and he had two people in there bringing their tubeless wheels and tyres for mounting as they couldn’t get them on themselves, so tubeless seems to be good for local businesses. I got a pair of clincher wheels last year (2 way fit for a gravel bike, natch) for the first time in eons and now that I’ve sacked off both gravel and tubeless for being bollocks I’m using the rims for audax – I now understand why people are leaning on wide tyres and tubeless because 28mm clincher tyres at 80psi are nowhere near as comfortable as 23mm tubs at 120
If you need to bring your
If you need to bring your bike + tyres to a LBS to mount them tubeless then you should just stick to inner tubes imo. Or learn some basic maintenance. Depends on the rim/tyre combination but sometimes it’s not hard at all, I mounted mine without the use of levers though I did need an airshot to seat the bead.
I’m not convinced about the added value of going tubeless on race bikes but for gravel/CX riding it makes a lot of sense.
To be fair, the guys in the
To be fair, the guys in the shop were having a nightmare mounting them as well so I wouldn’t say it was user error particularly.
For off-road tyres yeah, it’s a game changer. I’d never go tubeless on thin, lightweight road tyres though. I have a bottle of Tufo sealant to squirt in my tubs as an emergency, it’s much faster drying and gloopy than regular sealant, and even that’s not a permanent fix
The amount of effort and
The amount of effort and energy required to break the bead/rim seal shocked me.
Eventually a combination of pulling with the hands and then pressing on the tyres with my feet. And such a simple description cannot convey the straining I had to do. At points I felt like giving up.
I want to be able to use the removed tyres at some point so using the vice was out.
It’s going to be a nightmare if I ever have to do it by the trail/roadside.
All of the complaints can be
All of the complaints can be valid, but it comes down to understanding how to use it.
Choice of sealant – some seal big holes better than others. Stans Race will seal pretty much everything.
Use of plugs to seal a big hole – I have done this several times (sidewall gash on MTB generally – never in the tread) and it is quicker than fixing a tubed puncture- no need to remove wheel, take tyre off and refit. Road tyres are higher pressure, but it still works, and are much less likely to get sidewall damage.
Fitting – yes, some combinations are tight. I got one of those scissor shaped tyre mounting tools, and it makes a sweary half hour job into 5 minutes. Also used it on some tubes road tyres that I had broken levers with in the past.
Sealent mess when fitting – hang the wheel up, carefully squirt in through valve without core. Or for Stans Race squirt in before final mounting. If you can manage not to spill beer you can do this.
Seating tyre on rim – waggle the wheel to make sure bead is lubricated with sealant (always good practice to soap the bead to seat it). Get a big air reservoir to blow the tyre on the rim. Yes this is a new tool, but they are not too dear, and I love new tools.
On the road I carry some CO2 and anchovy kit, usually don’t bother with a tube any more. Make sure kit includes a tiny knife to trim the excess off. (Or hunt around in the verge for some broken glass when you forget the knife)
Quite honestly, I’d rather
Quite honestly, I’d rather deal with a puncture once every ten years than the six-monthly task of scraping old sealant out of both tyres (not to mention the bloody mess and hassle every time I change a worn-out tyre).
I’m not convinced that
I’m not convinced that Continental are working to the same standard as Mavic’s UST from my recent experience!
Bought a pair of new Continental GP5000 tubeless tyres to fit on my Mavic Cosmic Pro SL UST rims replacing the original Mavic Yksion pros.
I couldnt even get one side of the tyre on let alone both. After hours of straining, swearing and very sore hands. I visited my buddy’s LBS just to check I wasn’t being either a bit dumb or too much of a softy with by gentle office-worker hands.
He couldn’t get them on either and reported that he’d had loads of issue with them. Somteimes he can get them on with levers but doesn;t recommend it on carbon rims. He also made the valid point that if it was a nightmare in the garage with tools but we managed to get them on; how much more of a nightmare would it be if I had a puncture on the road that wouldn’t seal and needed to try and get a tube in to see me home!
Fitted Pirelli in the end, just a tiny stuggle for my feeble computer bashing hands 😉
Like just about everything,
Like just about everything, when it works it’s the best ever…. when it doesn’t, it’s the stupidest invention ever. So….. my take is thus. I love tubeless on my mountain bike. Works great with lowish pressures, no pinch flats, tires ( all I’ve tried ) have been easy to install. It’s still messy and sticky as hell, you need to have/carry more stuff, but here in Arizona the trails are sharp and rocky, cactus and goat head thorns are everywhere, and for whatever reason(s) it works great overall. My off-road riding is more like bikepacking, I love having a big CamelBack full of liquids and essential gear. For road biking I gave up on it but gave it a good try. I just found it not worth it. Every punture I had were usually from the above mentioned thorns which are tiny little pinholes and sealant ( I tried a couple) would just jet out until it hit maybe 40 psi then it would (sometimes) coagulate. I like my road rides minimal, clean, and quiet….. my trail riding dirty and messy. To each his or her own!
I’ve been running tubeless
I’ve been running tubeless (Schwalbe Pro One’s) on my road bike for about a year now.
On balance, they’re expensive, maintenance heavy & a lot of faff!
The worst thing is that relatively small punctures don’t seal at road bike pressures (80psi).
On several occasions I’ve ended up wasting more time trying to deal with a non sealing puncture than it would take to change an innertube. Then there’s the clean up when you get home.
Ive tried several different sealants & added glitter without success. Anchovies don’t provide a lasting seal (they pop out).
I’ve recently bought a Stans ‘Dart’ tool to plug punctures. £25 for the tool & £20 for 5 patches (£4 each!).
The first fix attempt failed because the puncture in my road tyre wasn’t big enough. The second attempt was successful.
I’ve made the investment in tubeless & I’m going to see how things go with the new Stan’s tool.
But I’m seriously considering going back to tubes for my next set of tyres!
Tubuless sound… garbage!
Tubeless sound… garbage! Started riding in 2010. In 2013 was riding when a badly oriented drain double tapped both tyres. luckily i did not fall in the incoming car. I had it with sidewall cuts, sudden decompression or tire explosion. I went tubulars, and 50,000 kms and 10 punctures (mostly end of tire life) later I am still here to comment or ride 35-55 km/hr. Staple tubulars have been Veloflex Carbon, aarenberg, Conti Competition and Force/Comp. Vittorias would shred first metres, Michelin would also swiss cheese. But none of these tubulars ever gave me the risk and hazard that the first 10,000 kms that clinchers did. And i was learning to road cycle and was way slower.
The repeat horror stories I hear about tubeless are a cautionary tale that they are a dangerous garbage. People damaging rims during installation? People with decompressed sidewall explosion? Conti 5000TL, the very act of getting on the tighter fits on WEAKENS STRUCTURALLY THE WALL. Sidewall imbalance? People forget the deadly Firestone tire sidewall debacle that killed people until an overhaul got it corrected. However tubeless manufactures not only do not have a common fitting standard, they lack A COMMON SAFETY ONE. Folks, bicyles got faster. Am pricing a custom aero bike, Sl7 dogma F12 or Sarto Lampo, 15k, and yes the new tyre standard e.g. campagnolo WTO tubeless SCARES ME. as an aerospace connected professional I know what risk management is. Or I guarentee to any reader that you CANNOT MANAGE the tubeless risk at 35-70 km/hr. you can use 60-80 psi but 180 lbs with 55C asphalt equals BLOW! these are not michelin Pilot Sport 4 S le Mans tested, but silly garbage. So yes, I do believe that tubeless may save 8 watts (with latex?) vs tubulars, but that One % odd Decompression is an unnaceptable risk. bike gone, injury long lasting…We do not chance it in cars, aeroplanes, why would you do it on yourself? Now, caveat. Recreational relaxed posture riders, 25-30 km/hr have an exponentially less risk of serious issues. Rest of cyclists, speed demons above 33 km/hr, better stick to tubulars for one reason primarily, far far far far far safer tire…
My last tubular puncture occured 5,000 kms riding ago. patched it, sewn it, 20 min… So when tubeless riders find 7-8 sealed punctures esp rear tire, I balk, On hot asphalt the risk is nasty! these synthetic compunds cannot be safely patched!!
people should also not infer conclusions from mbt tubeless – different physics speed tire mass and sidewall. works for mbt, not road and speed and heat. be safe, and pressure the industry to get its act together.
I’m rather unclear from that
I’m rather unclear from that what you are warning about and why.
Perhaps you could give a clearer summary.
Aerospace connected
Aerospace connected professional? That’s a very impressive way of saying nothing at all.
Interesting article. I concur
Interesting article. I concur with many of the comments, I switched to tubless back in March after years of riding with only a handful of punctures with tubes. My main gripe with tubeless has been the punctures that appear to have sealed with the sealant, only to start spraying sealant on the next ride. I think this is largely due to the higher pressures on a road bike. If I were to run 80 psi, I can imagine this would be less of an issue, but as a heavier rider (230lbs) I don’t feel comfortable running pressures that low.
The ‘bacon’ tire plugs don’t seem to work at all on road tires, as mentioned in the comments, the rubber seems too thin to allow them to work, and I’ve had no luck with Stans DART.
On top of the hassle and time wasted messing with the tires, I discovered that the sealant had gunked up the bottom bracket cable guide, causing the cables to drag and necessitating a cable change.
I’ve tried two different sets of tires, Vittoria Cora TLRs and Schwalbe Pro One TLEs and Stans Race and Orange Seal sealants and have had the same issues. I’d patched a hole in the Pro One on the rear of my bike at the moment, which seemed to be holding, but last weekend it started spraying sealant from that hole again, so new tire needed.
I’ve just ordered new (non-tubeless) tires, I’ve had it with tubeless.
I don’t know if anyone is
I don’t know if anyone is still reading here other than me. I tried fitting GP5000, which was an exercise in frustration. Even with three hands it did not want to know and it was like wrestling a jellyfish, as the bead went over the rim in once place it was coming off an inch further round. Finally worked out a solution. Use a cable tie around the rim and tyre until it’s tight. It stops the bead easing over the rim, still makes the ball of your thumbs ache but 2 minutes to get it on compared to 30 of effing and jeffing.
Also Milkit valves are pretty good. There are rubber flaps under at the valve base, once the pressure drops to about 20psi, you can remove the core with no sealant spray. He king the amount of sealant is cleaning and simple with a syringe kit, forcing the flap open so you draw off the sealant and replace it. Bit easier than advised by Stan’s about putting he bloody stuff in before getting the bead over the rim. With GP5000’s that is just never going to happen.
Heres the money shot! If you
Heres the money shot! If you cant pop the beads dry then they definately wont pop full of sealant (Cue big mess!)
So, mount the tyre, remove core, inflate and “pop” the beads. Once its seated, let it down gently and inject sealant through core and pump up with core in.
Worst case scenario give the tyre and rim a good soaking in warm washing up liquid filled water. It always seats.
This has been the key for me to easy installation on road and MTB.
My favourite part about this
My favourite part about this thread is Dingaling’s excel spreadsheets to keep track of his maintenance…. Oh how time flies since I first read it.
Genuinely – each to their own
Genuinely – each to their own personal choices and experiences, personally my experience with tubeless (Mavic UST) has been absolutely awful. The rolling resistance and comfort have been exeptional – but just the day to day living with the system has left me screaming in frustration. I am done with it.
As per script – most will blame the workman and not the tools – I know my capability, skill set and proven mechanical ability, so that is not the case.
2x Clavicle Smasher wrote:
My experience too, same tyres and Yksion Pro rims (which, with tubes, are brilliant wheels)
Just fit some Conti TL5000s
Just fit some Conti TL5000s and it was a forearm exploder. Finally got them on with the help of a gigantic tire lever and gained a giant blister on my thumb from trying to roll tires. I just bought a (new to me) Specialized Tarmac and it had brand new DT Swiss PR1600 alu wheels that were tubeless ready and I have been really wanting to give it a go. I am going to keep an eye on this thread and report back after significant testing!
A couple of days ago you re
A couple of days ago you re-posted the disc brake article, and now this one. I can’t help but feel you just like watching an argument.
Helmets next?
[Edit – I’ve just read John’s blog!]
Just moved a set of tubeless
Just moved a set of tubeless tyres (Schwalbe pro-ones) from one wheelset to another.
Back tyre seated instantly, added sealant via milkit valves and was done in under 5 mins.
Front tyre would not seat, original wheel was narrower internally and tyre seemed to have adopted that shape. Stuck a tube in, rode it for a week (got one puncture…) then tried again. 5 mins done.
Milkit valves make ongoing maintenance a doddle.
In my experience once you’ve got the hang of tubeless the benefits hugely outweigh the negatives.
My bike is faster and more comfortable and I spend far less time fixing punctures.
Even in this latest setup with associated hiccups it’s only cost me half an hour extra compared to a tubed setup.
I’m impressed that you
I’m impressed that you managed to get Schwalbe Pro-Ones to last long enough to transfer between wheels – aren’t they made from the same material as moth wings?
(Also a fan of Milkit valves)
I’m aware of their ‘delicate’
I’m aware of their ‘delicate’ reputation but I seem to get pretty good wear from mine.
Probably something to do with the moth-esque power I put through them.
Be careful in the wet as I
Be careful in the wet as I found them very slippery when run at >70PSI. I use GP5000TLs these days and haven’t got a bad word to say about them which is surprising as others seem to find them very difficult to mount to rims which has not been my experience.
That particular bike doesn’t
That particular bike doesn’t go out in the wet much, now it has carbon wheels (rim brake) I think I’ll be even less inclined to risk it!
Am going to try GP5000s or Hutchinson Fusion 5s next. Have heard good things about both.
I swap my tires occasionally
I swap my tires occasionally and store my road bike in the sitting room. Tubeless at that pressure with its sealent and mess isn’t an option! Also it felt odd being able to shake my bike and hear sealent slosh before I swapped those tires for some tubed ones.
I recommend you vacuum your
I recommend you vacuum your lounge to remove hawthorns, glass, nails and tacks.
I ran tubeless for about 2
I ran tubeless for about 2 years on my summer road bike. One flint puncture in the Alps that wouldn’t seal properly beyond 50psi. Following year, pothole caused double blowout with tyres off rims and some damage. I didn’t have 2 tubes so it was a call to the broom wagon. The Mavic tyres were also really hard to take off at home.
Of course, this is anecdotal evidence which has to be averaged with the many who have no problems at all. But inner tubes are no real trouble at all, which lead me to the conclusion this is a solution still looking for a problem to solve. If it ain’t broke…
A recycled article with
A recycled article with comments that are still relevant in June 2021.
Tubeless is still not currently an acceptable solution for the road. It is for gravel and MTB. The higher pressures required for Road tyres makes whatever liquid sealant you use spurt out the slightest hole. When pressure drops low enough the sealant will work but do you really want to ride fast and corner at 45/50 psi on the road?
Throw in fitment issues- getting tyres on and off is ridiculous and a total faff as well. Then add in the fact that tubeless tires suffer holes from the tiniest of pin pricks(Why Schwalbe Ones is that a known issue) and don’t seal, making tube insertion a messy necessary nightmare. Just stop it.
‘Friends don’t let friends ride tubeless’ . Definitely true for the road rider.
Completely agree but try
Completely agree but try telling the Bike Industry that, they just won’t have it.
Whilst reading the page on
Whilst reading the page on off.road.cc covering tubeless plugs I saw our friend Secret_squirrel mention tubeless repair patches, I was intrigued and had a look for these things that I had not heard about, seems there are a thing and there are a few of them out there. I will be buying some of the Hutchinson Rep’Air Tubeless Repair Kit, the crc page adress is just to long, but £5.99, and available in road and mountain.
Here is a review https://bikerumor.com/2010/11/23/reviewhow-to-hutchinson-repair-tubeless-tire-patch-kit/
My only anchovie repair was on the front on my low pressure plus, and worked very well and has stayed good for over a year. But at some point I will repair “long” using this kit (MTB) when I get it. Maybe when I imminently put the front on the rear as the rear’s tread is getting thin has the pattern indicating sidewall damage.
Thing is, this repair kit might be a fix for the small cuts you get in normal (non-tubeless) tyres, for those small holes, not rips mind, but a few mm. The tyre ruiners thst you’d see a small blister of inner through the hole, so you are a bit scared to use.
I did once get one in a very new summer semi slick. I was much poorer then and I didn’t want to buy a new one so I used a Park Tyre Boot, worked of course, bit it did degrade, cracked, and put a few punctures into the tube.
Some have suggested super glue, this kit uses a form of super glue, more flexible and as the above review mentions, you use it on the outside of the hole and then patch on the inside. so closing the hole. Now I know that tubeless reedy tyres tend to have a layer of rubber, to prevent air loss, on the inside of the carcass, so an especially light tyre would be more fabrikey and might not work well, but perhaps ones with a more rubbery inner.
The patch being thicker than a standard patch resisting stretching too.
Peoples opinions are often
Peoples opinions are often based on their own experiences and the advantage of tubeless systems seems to be less punctures and a softer ride.
All I can say is that I recently did a group LEJOG where nearly everyone had clinchers; with a combined total of 19K miles we had only two punctures and one leaking tubeless tyre which was solved eventually by installing more sealant.
I ran my 28mm clincher Gatorskins around 80psi without any issues.
I had one puncture last year; on a cycle path (of course) riding The Way of the Roses, which took about 20mins to sort.
At the moment I will probably stay with clinchers for my next bike as I have a collection of useful clincher tyres and inner tubes, and dont really see tubeless offering a massive advantage for me.
Agree with Peted’s comments
Agree with Peted’s comments from a year ago. 3 years of tubeless for me and I won’t go back. Instantly sealing punctures at 90psi always puts a smile on my face (using stans race never an issue to seal). Add in rolling resistance benefits and comfort it’s a real win.
There is a learning curve though. I too now also go out with a small bottle of extra sealant after learning the hard way, and also take super glue and anchovies for repairs but rarely used them in 3 years. Most times nothing needed and the tyre sealed before you can stop. Occasionlly have to use a mini pump for small top ups after bigger cuts, but I do also take co2 as well, as I learned once after a really big cut, those GP5000s are tight and if they deflate a lot and pop to the centre, you’ll have a job to get them back on the rim with a mini pump.. So tubeless does require a bit more thought and there is a learning curve, but once you’ve got it sussed you’ll not go back.
If tubeless tech is so good
If tubeless tech is so good how come Pro Peleton teams at this years TDF used conventional Clinchers and Tubes?
I for one am sick and tired of all the hype surrounding tubeless tech, it is being promoted at every opportunity by manufacturers and the bike press as ‘the future’ of tyre technology.
What happens when for example, you decide to swap out your winter tyres for summer ones or you just decide to try a different make or model?
cue getting covered in Latex type gunk, scrubbing gunk off the inside of the tyre walls (unsucessfully) etc.
Even with the compatible Rims it is far from user friendly, I have tried going Tublesless on my Mountain Bike but the whole experience was a painful, exasperating one from start to finish, I certainly have no intention of going through it all again on my Road Bike!
Please stop going on about it and give conventional Clinchers and Tubes a chance!
So true. My experiences with
So true. My experiences with tubeless have been horrific. I can do all parts of bike maintenance, except fit tubeless tires. If i was riding tubeless in the desert and needed to do a tire change, i’d ditch the bike and start walking