Multiple Olympic gold medal winner Chris Hoy has emerged as one of Britain’s most vocal advocates for cycling. But he believes that some cyclists are doing the cause no good by their behaviour on the roads.
“When I’m out on a bike and I see someone doing something stupid I will absolutely have a word with them at the next set of lights,” he told the Telegraph’s Theo Merz in an interview.
Hoy gave a recent example, of a rider he’d chastised while in his home town of Edinburgh a couple of weeks ago.
He said: “There was a guy who was riding like an idiot, jumping lights, cutting up the pavement, and I just said: ‘You’re not helping matters here. If you want respect you have to earn it.’”
The response was stunned silence, perhaps at being told off by Scotland’s most famous cyclist, perhaps in amazement that someone had nothing better to do than police the behaviour of other cyclists.
Since retiring in 2013, Hoy has been developing his own bike brand with Evans Cycles, promoting family cycling, confusing football fans on Twitter who think he's a referee, and recently announced plans to get into car racing.
But he says cycling still matters to him and that’s why he gets annoyed with behaviour that, as he sees it, affects the perception of cyclists. He still wants to see more people on bikes.
“There are so many benefits to cycling,” he said. “It eases congestion, there are social benefits if you do it with someone else and of course there are the health benefits. It improves your cardiovascular system and you lose body fat.
“It’s particularly good if you haven’t exercised for a number of years. If you’re trying to run for the first time it puts strain on your joints, or people can have injuries that prevent them from doing that. But cycling is low impact, it’s easy for anyone at any level and it doesn’t have to be expensive.”
Hoy says he still gets out on the bike too.
“I still go cycling at least four times a week though,” he said. “Sometimes it’s to test models for my range and sometimes it’s purely for my own well-being. If I’m preaching about the benefits of exercise I can’t let myself go – and I wouldn’t want to.”
And of course, if he doesn’t ride, he doesn’t get to tell off those naughty red-light-jumpers.
134 thoughts on “Chris Hoy hits out at “stupid” cyclists”
Quote:
recently announced
Hmmm.
Ush wrote:Quote:
recently
He’s racing in British GT at Rockingham on Monday. He’s not bad at it.
Should car drivers earn our
Should car drivers earn our respect as well then? What a load of crap. Let’s start policing everyone and telling people off. I want to go out and enjoy my ride, not play policeman… There will always be idiots who decide to break the law. It’s not up to us to make sure that these people behave so that motorists respect the rest of us.
get fucked chris mate. fuck
get fucked chris mate. fuck right off.
blacknose wrote:get fucked
Wow, well that was really constructive. Did you register just to say that? I have a funny feeling the title of this article refers to you buddy.
Personally I agree with Chris 100% and would have loved to have witnessed the look on that guys face when he realised who he was being chastised by.
Oscarzero wrote:blacknose
I’m stupid because I expect to be shown respect on the roads regardless of how other people ride their bikes?
Sure.
blacknose wrote:I’m stupid
Yes, you are. For the following reason.
Rider A rides like a git, driver B sees rider A and assumes all riders are gits. Driver B sees you and carves you up, or maybe even sides swipes you because, you know, all riders are gits, right?
Riders who act as if the laws of the road don’t apply to them do a lot more harm for the perception of cyclists in general than they realize. If you don’t see that then you’re a fool, mate.
Gordy748 wrote:blacknose
Yes, you are. For the following reason.
Rider A rides like a git, driver B sees rider A and assumes all riders are gits. Driver B sees you and carves you up, or maybe even sides swipes you because, you know, all riders are gits, right?
Riders who act as if the laws of the road don’t apply to them do a lot more harm for the perception of cyclists in general than they realize. If you don’t see that then you’re a fool, mate.— blacknose
Exactly right Gordy, when I see shit riding on the same stretch of road as myself it pisses me off because immediately some motorists will show me less respect and leave less space.
Cyclists are a minority on the road, so it’s easy to become tarred with the same brush, as minorities also suffer in many situations.
Doesn’t make it right, but let’s face it, don’t many on here generalise with drivers of taxi’s and rigid body HGV’s to the point that if you drive one you must be a potential murderer?
Gordy748 wrote:blacknose
Yes, you are. For the following reason.
Rider A rides like a git, driver B sees rider A and assumes all riders are gits. Driver B sees you and carves you up, or maybe even sides swipes you because, you know, all riders are gits, right?
Riders who act as if the laws of the road don’t apply to them do a lot more harm for the perception of cyclists in general than they realize. If you don’t see that then you’re a fool, mate.— blacknose
the problem there is the driver who sideswiped a cyclist. are you fucking dense.
blacknose wrote:I’m stupid
Yes, you are. For the following reason.
Rider A rides like a git, driver B sees rider A and assumes all riders are gits. Driver B sees you and carves you up, or maybe even sides swipes you because, you know, all riders are gits, right?
Riders who act as if the laws of the road don’t apply to them do a lot more harm for the perception of cyclists in general than they realize. If you don’t see that then you’re a fool, mate.
blacknose wrote:get fucked
In the tone of the above post – what a total fucking bellend
I second that.
I do not want
I second that.
I do not want anyone thinking that the cycling majority agrees with the childish comments of one bellend.
Cyclists that do not follow the rules only give motorists an excuse to demonstrate bad behaviour on the road, which in turn costs cyclists their lives. If one cyclist shows disregard, motorists put us all in the same category.
The only way that cyclists will win the right to be on the road is if we all follow the rules.
jaylamont wrote:I second
Nothing gives motorists an excuse to behave in a manner that endangers the lives of others. fucking listen to yourself.
jaylamont wrote:I second
Cyclists have the right to be on the road – we don’t need to ‘win’ such a right.
That’s Chris Hoy off my
That’s Chris Hoy off my christmas card list.
Respect is given. Not earned.
Respect is given. Not earned.
Couldn’t agree with the big
Couldn’t agree with the big man more. Well said that man.
If I get hit by a car I’ll be
If I get hit by a car I’ll be sure to remember as I’m ground to pulp that it’s all because I didn’t have respect of other road users due to someone I’ve never met jumping a red light. A real comfort.
“If I get hit by a car I’ll
“If I get hit by a car I’ll be sure to remember as I’m ground to pulp that it’s all because I didn’t have respect of other road users due to someone I’ve never met jumping a red light. A real comfort.”
And there’s the problem.
Short term view – it’s all about me me me!
Which is the same reason ‘cyclists’ (well, people on bikes) jump red lights and why there is such a negative view of it as a mode of transport in the Daily Wail.
Pimpmaster Jazz wrote:”If I
lol yeah when it comes to get getting murdered by a fucking juggernaut i do tend to be a bit ‘me me me’. you don’t even make sense mate.
Wish I didn’t have one of his
Wish I didn’t have one of his bikes now. So I don’t get respect on the road because of some chavy twat being stupid on their bike. Drivers certainly don’t earn my respect but I still have to give it, or I die. Respect does not need to be earned when the consequences could be someone’s life. :H
Quality, you wouldn’t fancy
Quality, you wouldn’t fancy sprinting away from the lights after being told off either
And the prats come out. Well
And the prats come out. Well done Chris. If cyclists stop acting like plonkers, then they can expect to stop being treated like plonkers.
Yeah, motorists are also plonkers, but Chris is quite right about cyclists being their own worst enemies…
jmaccelari wrote:And the
You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried. Tell that to the spouse of anyone killed by a driver not giving enough ‘respect’. They will find it utterly repugnant that somehow the actions of someone 500 miles away and three decades younger interacting with a driver none of them have ever met or driven past somehow should have influenced the actions of their beloved’s killer. In a country of about 30 MILLION drivers. That their dead spouse was to blame for their own demise, based on some bizarre sense of collective responsibility.
Can you even begin to see how screwed up this idea of collective responsibility is?
KiwiMike wrote:jmaccelari
You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried. Tell that to the spouse of anyone killed by a driver not giving enough ‘respect’. They will find it utterly repugnant that somehow the actions of someone 500 miles away and three decades younger interacting with a driver none of them have ever met or driven past somehow should have influenced the actions of their beloved’s killer. In a country of about 30 MILLION drivers. That their dead spouse was to blame for their own demise, based on some bizarre sense of collective responsibility.
Can you even begin to see how screwed up this idea of collective responsibility is?— jmaccelari
Very succinctly put Mike. +1
Hoy stick to racing cars please!!
@Beztweets wrote a very good
@Beztweets wrote a very good piece on ‘respect’
http://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/2013/10/11/the-most-basic-respect/
“Respect is not earned. Respect can – should – be voluntarily given, not least because those who need it may not have the opportunity to earn it. To respect people is a choice. In most aspects of life people choose to do so unquestioningly. Yet not on the road.
To use this excuse to diminish the value of lives lost on the road is cheap and morally bankrupt, and is a cover for a baffling reluctance to make just one decision: that not killing someone is the most important thing you will do today.
The most basic respect of all is surely to respect someone’s mere existence.
If you feel that such a fundamental level of respect needs to be earned, then you are a deeply dangerous human being.”
SimonS wrote:@Beztweets wrote
Really, everyone should read that post by Bez. Especially those “agreeing 100%” with Sir Chris.
Be great if the big man read it too.
I kind of agree with him.
I kind of agree with him. Really annoyed me yesterday as I waited in ASL at a junction, cars properly queueing behind, and this lass on her mountain bike just rides on through the red, then cuts across the pavement to saved perhaps ten seconds off her journey. It was just bad manners as much as anything.
20% of road users are twunts
20% of road users are twunts regardless of mode of transport.
The crusade should be to make people less twuntish
.
.
Great article and excellent
Great article and excellent comments.
I’m beginning to see why this country is so fucked up now….
🙁
It is sad and disappointing
It is sad and disappointing that idiots on bikes cause negative views on all bikers but it does, we can’t all turn around and go, not my problem.
Many on this forum make the same generalisation about drivers. I am frankly shocked and disgusted by the strong negative comments made to a generally sensible article.
Essentially, the roads should
Essentially, the roads should be policed better. It would improve motorist behaviour (a serious, meaningful improvement in terms of road safety) as well as provide cyclists with the only realistic regulation possible.
Despite cyclists being comparatively harmless, the principle that they should be allowed to run wild and not be enforced at all is obviously a bit off. I think it’s this that has helped provoke ludicrous calls for ‘cycle number plates’ and ‘licensing’ and other such things. I think people just feel frustrated other seeing people routinely break rules and feel there’s nothing possible that can be done about it, even if the consequences of the law-breaking are realistically minor. Hence the red light ire.
But I don’t think people are going to police themselves perfectly. I don’t think the people Hoy’s berating are necessarily interested in ‘helping the great bicycle cause’. They may well just be doing it because it’s quicker for them and them alone. You’re going to get idiots of any form of transport, because you get idiots (or at least, highly self-interested people) everywhere. You can either rig them up to a convoluted system of identification and accountability, or you can just keep a better eye on them.
I think better policing would not only bring real benefits in terms of better motorcar behaviour, but also assuage people’s feelings of being treated unjustly; that one group of road users is heavily licensed, and the other (seemingly) allowed to go about as it likes, for doing the same thing. That one group is essentially harmless is another cognitive leap altogether, and I think it normally comes after the ‘I’m being treated so unjustly’ line of thought.
I wouldn’t be too keen on giving in to the ideological concerns of motor-centric buffoons, if the solution wouldn’t also improve motorcar behaviour, and thus bring meaningful differences to safety.
Theoretically, I think ‘Project Actually Policing the Roads’ (or whatever it was called) in London last year was a good thing. It would have been nice if they hadn’t strayed away from enforcing the law onto helmet and high-vis ‘advice’, but overall, I’d rather have seen it than not.
I short; I don’t believe riding a bike should be COMPLETELY unenforced, despite being a gajillion times less dangerous than a motorcar, and if enforcing the roads better tidies up scruffy/lethal motorcar behaviour as well, then that’s two birds with one stone. It’s certainly be more effective than asking ex-Olympians to do it.
im shocked and digusted that
im shocked and digusted that chris hoy is such an idiot
In short short; until the
In short short; until the people policing the roads are actually the Police, the alternatives are ex-Olympians and seething motorists. Neither of which seem very effective.
Out police do need to start
Out police do need to start policing the roads again. The general standard of driving and adherence to rules on the road are awful.
Nothing wrong with what Sir
Nothing wrong with what Sir Chris has said. But he does need to be aware of how headline writers (including those on road.cc, disappointingly ) will summarize his comments, particularly given a lot of “readers” don’t go beyond the headline and first para to read the actual quotes.
Whilst the concept of respect
Whilst the concept of respect being automatically given, not earned, is a attractive one, I’m not sure this is actually always the case. As such, I think behaving according to the same rules as other road users might occasionally change certain drivers perceptions. So whilst other people’s actions shouldn’t affect the respect given to you in an ideal world, they probably do in reality.
MattT53 wrote:Whilst the
I agree with this. In truth I think his point was if you behave badly on your bike, you can’t expect to be treated with respect. This doesn’t mean some of dangerous shit idiots do on the road mind.
MattT53 wrote:Whilst the
I agree with this. In truth I think his point was if you behave badly on your bike, you can’t expect to be treated with respect. This doesn’t mean some of dangerous shit idiots do on the road mind.
What a fuckwit – descended to
What a fuckwit – descended to the same level of bullshit you expect from dickheads like Jeremy Clarkson.
I am not responsible for the actions of other cyclists any more than I am responsible for the actions of other drivers when I am in my car. As a driver no-one berates me for the speeding, redlight running, dangerous overtakes etc of other drivers. I don’t need to answer for the infractions of some – only a few – cyclists either.
I’m amazed he didn’t suggest we should be paying “road tax”.
Perhaps the phrase “respect
Perhaps the phrase “respect is easily lost” might be more appropriate than “respect has to be earned”.
SamShaw wrote:Perhaps the
I’d go with that and to be honest, probably what he really meant.
Surely what he meant was
Surely what he meant was along the lines of (delivered in a Begbie style):
If the cyclists who ride like inconsiderate cunts stopped riding like inconsiderate cunts, then the drivers and pedestrians who witness this…..would hopefully see a reduction in cunty cycling, and thus would be less likely to dismiss all cyclists as inconsiderate cunts when actually most of them are ok, and just using their bikes for fairly harmless fun and transport.
I guess the Telegraph may have issues with the swearing. …
‘Course, Sir Chris knows fuck
‘Course, Sir Chris knows fuck all about proper cycling – there ain’t no cars on them velodromes are there?
Chapeau Chris.
Folks, if you
Chapeau Chris.
Folks, if you don’t believe in this then how about doing it to be a decent human being.
Civilisation is built on individuals doing their best to get along with one another.
I was in the pub last night –
I was in the pub last night – saw some bloke I didn’t know who had just exceeded 5 units of alcohol, so I thought I’d intervene. I went up to him and said “careful mate – you’re endangering yourself and even worse, you’ll give us drinkers a bad name”
Then everyone put down their pints and gave me a round of applause =D>
rainman onwheels wrote:I was
If the individual you spoke to had been leering at other people, spilling his drink over them and followed up by being sick over the bar, you probably would have got a round of applause for pulling him up for his twattish behaviour. And you’d have had plenty of help to throw him out of the pub!
Twattish behaviour in any context needs pulling up, especially where it inconveniences or endangers other people (or even the twat himself). Well done Chris.
Quote:Despite cyclists being
No one is suggesting that. The same rules of the road apply to everyone.
No. Nothing gives another road user an “excuse” to demonstrate bad behaviour or put someone else at risk. It’s as simple as that.
So the problem is with the lazy-minded motorists (not all motorists) that generalise in this way, not with “cyclists” collectively.
I’m a bit disappointed with this story, but I accept that Hoy has been spun by the Telegraph, as most of what he said was positive about cycling, and nothing to do with the headline. However, we need to challenge at every opportunity the suggestion that cyclists have some sort of collective responsibility for the death and injury that is caused by bad drivers and that cyclists collectively need to “put their house in order”. That’s just an excuse to maintain the status quo on the roads.
kcr wrote:Quote:Despite
No one is suggesting that. The same rules of the road apply to everyone.
No. Nothing gives another road user an “excuse” to demonstrate bad behaviour or put someone else at risk. It’s as simple as that.
So the problem is with the lazy-minded motorists (not all motorists) that generalise in this way, not with “cyclists” collectively.
I’m a bit disappointed with this story, but I accept that Hoy has been spun by the Telegraph, as most of what he said was positive about cycling, and nothing to do with the headline. However, we need to challenge at every opportunity the suggestion that cyclists have some sort of collective responsibility for the death and injury that is caused by bad drivers and that cyclists collectively need to “put their house in order”. That’s just an excuse to maintain the status quo on the roads.
You are bang on but sadly ppl do generalise. Some cyclists do the same
This is all very tiresome. I
This is all very tiresome. I think that the majority of people will acknowledge that when drivers see poor cycling, RLJ’ing etc it causes them to get annoyed and attribute that kind of thing to ‘all’ cyclists. As borne out by all the comments people get about RLJ etc. My sisters, girlfriend etc have lal made those comments to me at times. As for earning respect, it is clear that he wasn’t expecting a byunch of keyboard warriors to take apart every word of his interview like has been, yes he could and should have phrased it better. But i think its pretty clear what he meant, i.e. don’t ride like a dick because it makes people assume all cyclysts are dicks. Which is actually a position i agree with. That he was lazy and used a cliched comment probably very familar to most of use was unfortunate, but afterall, he is an athlete and they are rather well known for speaking in cliches.
This thread has been
This thread has been remarkably informative and useful to me; from reading many of the comments on here recently I’ve had a growing feeling over the past few weeks – this article and many of the comments left have provided confirmation of this feeling and what I will do from here on, and to use a rather inelegant Americanism, I’ll let you do the math.
I will say this though – I’m not entirely sure it is appropriate for the writer of the report here to give his own opinion in the comments section, especially using the language he chose to use, but hey, it’s his website. Whether he thinks it’s a welcoming and inclusive one that encourages visitors to remain or not is a decision he can make.
Chris Hoy wrote:“When I’m out
Wont work if they don’t stop for the next set either!
Initialised wrote:Chris Hoy
Will if you’re Chris Hoy!
Very disappointing comment
Very disappointing comment from someone with such a high profile.
The fallacy of this attitude is very eloquently described in blog referenced above.
There was also an Australian video posted here a while back that noticed the psychological tendency to attribute behaviour within groups that you are part of to individuals, whereas for a group that you’re not part they are attributed to the group as a whole.
In other words, for your average citizen who is a regular driver but not a regular cyclist, bad driving gets attributed to individuals, whereas bad cycling gets attributed to all cyclists.
The only fix is to get more people on bikes 🙂 Actually, having that blog post engraved onto every steering wheel in the country might go some way to solving it, but that’s fantasy.
So:
If Sir Chris as a
So:
If Sir Chris as a motorist sees someone driving a car in excess of the speed limit (which is not very difficult), will he drive up to them, stop them, and explain that thinks they are giving drivers a bad name?
And if not, why not? Bearing in mind that this type of law breaking endangers other road users at least as much as a cycling red light jumper, he should.
‘If you want respect, you
‘If you want respect, you have to earn it’ – Yes, that means you.
An Exercise in Logic:
I see a
An Exercise in Logic:
I see a lot of motorists breaking the law. Sir Chris Hoy is a motorist. therefore he has lost my respect, and I am entitled to kill or hurt any motorists (including him) I happen to feel like.
Why is that nobody says that
Why is that nobody says that they have to control the behaviour of other pedestrians otherwise they and all the rest of us will deserve to be run over when we cross the road?
“When I’m out on a bike and I
“When I’m out on a bike and I see someone doing something stupid I will absolutely have a word with them at the next set of lights,”
He must be a busy man then, talking to all those drivers using mobile phones, exceeding the speed limit, driving and parking on the pavement, overtaking dangerously, obstructing dropped kerbs etc, etc etc. Not to mention the jay-walking pedestrians.
Surely it can’t be worth riding a bike?
To pick on the cyclists, even the awful ones, as being somehow uniquely in need of correction is unfortunate and untrue, and it doesn’t matter how well cyclists behave, it won’t make drivers respect us.
Perhaps instead of the
Perhaps instead of the respect line, perhaps we should start promoting the line of treating others how you expect to be treated and see how far we get.
The whole not respecting others because they don’t respect me, or the earn/ give respect arguments only appear to a downward and negative spiral. And a spiral that has to be broken.
I mentioned that respect should be earned as short time ago, the first reply started with the word “Bollocks”, I haven’t got a clue what that posters point was, I couldn’t be arsed reading the rest of the post. Strange that, innit?
Is he not driving around a
Is he not driving around a track at silly speeds for the amusement of others?
I’ve mentioned elsewhere
I’ve mentioned elsewhere before, this isn’t a cyclist or driving issue, more an issue or consideration. Getting 15 ft further up the road at the expense of someone else doesn’t make your life better, blocking a roundabout to stop ppl getting infront of you doesn’t make your life any better and nor does crazy driving to get around a bicycle.
I wish I knew the answer, you only have to look at this thread to realise we can’t respect each other
Having read both articles it
Having read both articles it looks like pro trolling on pro trolling.
The Telegraph Journo puts emphasis on what was probably a throw away comment and the road cc chap does a whole article on it.
Everyone else wades in with comments and clicks which is what their both paid to generate.
Meanwhile back in the real world most people are getting on quite nicely.
I wonder if Jenson Button
I wonder if Jenson Button drives around reprimanding fellow drivers who speed, jump lights, park on double yellows and pavements, text while driving, etc, for fear of motorists losing respect from other road-users such a cyclists?
I understand that his comments are meant to be helpful, but really – when will people realise that the motorists who hate cyclists do so because they slow them down! If all cyclists stuck 100% to the rules of the road, it would make absolutely no difference to how these motorists view cyclists!
Chris, please think how things will get reported in our anti-cycling press before you open your mouth.
Every cyclist in the UK could
Every cyclist in the UK could ride like a saint and it would not make a difference on the roads, for a few simple reasons. I drive 60 miles to work and back every day and come to the conclusion that there is no cyclist v driver war. It is down to the simple fact that there are just too many crap drivers out their, who seem to think they should be the only person on the road. I have driven home this evening and witness plenty of idiot driving all because people are too impatient. Including one Astra driver who couldn’t wait a few more seconds and pulled out on me at a crossroads as I approached in a Freelander at 50 mph, good job one of us was alert! :W Now if that idiot is so impatient that he would risk a Freelander bumper through his drivers side door of his Astra, what hope does any other road user have, especially cyclists when he is around. We are living in a selfish, lazy society with a lot of people who do not care about others. Unfortunately as cyclists we bear the brunt of it. What is needed is better enforcement, yet I very rarely see the Police on the roads pulling over the idiots. I did here that in our town they were having a clampdown on cyclists on pavements, but do nothing about the idiot drivers.
“lol yeah when it comes to
“lol yeah when it comes to get getting murdered by a fucking juggernaut i do tend to be a bit ‘me me me’. you don’t even make sense mate.”
It’s a pretty simple concept, but you’re obviously too busy avoiding murdering juggernauts to have time to contemplate such things.
It’s OK. If I was targeted for termination I’d be busy doing something else, like running away with a man from the future or looking for a large humanoid cyborg to save me.
I think some are missing the
I think some are missing the point here. It’s true that motorists are going to hate cyclists simply because we slow them down. And it’s true we don’t waste time policing bad mannered drivers. The point is that we have to protect ourselves. And that means behaving ourselves on the road the best we can. If you piss off a motorist, they can do you some great harm, simply by running you off the road! They don’t even have to touch you! Just because many (or most) motorists disobey the laws, it does not make it right for us to do the same. We should earn the respect from motorists. Yes, I know….we may never gain the respect of many of them, but we have to make ourselves better than they are.
When I am out riding, and I come to an intersection, I may have the right of way, but a car that comes to the stop sometimes figures they can “beat me” and go ahead and pull out. Of course you have to assume that they WILL do just that. But when I come across those who do actually wait for me to pass, I give them a wave of “thanks”, even though I have the right of way. It is acknowledgment on several levels. Amazingly, some of them wave back, and most of them give me a smile. Simple things can go a long way. We don’t have to make it a battle. Perhaps if we behaved better on the roads, some laws regarding accidents involving cars and cyclists will become more severe, because we would be taken more seriously. As It stands now, when cyclists run lights and stop signs, when an accident happens, many automatically assume the cyclist was in the wrong. Our good behavior can help change that attitude. So if it takes “educating” fellow cyclists for their bad behavior to make things better for all of us, I’m all for it. We’re all in this together. Let’s help each other out.
sheflys2 wrote:I think some
The point Mr Hoy needs to learn is how our press report things. They love to fan the flames of popular opinion, which in this case is motorist good (but persecuted), cyclist bad!
He can go around policing the behaviour of fellow cyclists if he likes – good on him. But why make comment when it is obvious how it will be reported? Does he really believe his comments will stop the behaviour that irritates him so much, or is he looking to get his face in the papers?…..or is he a frustrated motorist in disguise?
There’s an old saying, “Do as
There’s an old saying, “Do as you would be done by.”
In other words, all road users should treat all other road users with respect. Chris Hoy’s a decent bloke and I don’t think he deserves all this criticism flying his way over his comments, quite the reverse in fact.
A lot of the thick-as-shite
A lot of the thick-as-shite cyclists seem to be on here. ~X(
We can not whinge about motorists breaking the law and endangering cyclists when some of us show scant regard for the law ourselves.
Why some people can not see this I do not know.
HalfWheeler wrote:A lot of
A lot of the thick-as-shite cyclists seem to be on here. ~X(
I can whinge about motorists breaking the law and endangering cyclists because quite independently of what other people do, I don’t show scant regard for the law myself.
Why some people can not see this I do not know.
Come on. Now not only I’m fair play for endangerment and abuse because someone else rides badly, I can’t even complain about people driving badly because someone else rides badly? Get a grip, for crying out loud.
Hmm…
If you obey the law
Hmm…
If you obey the law then obviously I wasn’t talking about you. Yet you reply…interesting…
HalfWheeler wrote:If you obey
Was that to me? If so: No, it wasn’t obvious, at all. Look at your use of “we” and “some of us”. You quite clearly say that we, the set of “us” (which I assume to be “people who ride bikes”) cannot complain because of the actions of a subset of (“some of”) us. You’re ascribing collective responsibility.
Bez wrote:HalfWheeler
I take a pop at cyclists who break the law, note how their actions are counterproductive, and how, like it or lump it, their actions besmirch us all, and yet you jump to their defense?
Hugely defensive. Suspiciously defensive even. But, as I said, if you’re not one of these eejits making life that little bit harder for us then the comment wasn’t aimed at you.
Keep to the left 😉
HalfWheeler wrote:I take a
Eh? Point me to the bit where I’ve supposedly defended illegal or irresponsible cycling.
Read what I’ve written again. You’ve missed my point by a country mile, and then some.
HalfWheeler wrote:A lot of
And some don’t even realise they are in the thick-as-shite grouping, isn’t that ironic?
I went on a couple of
I went on a couple of Critical Masses last year but found the sactimony a bit cloying. Half of the comments on this thread put me in the same frame of mind.
I went on a couple of
I went on a couple of Critical Masses last year but found the sactimony a bit cloying. Half of the comments on this thread put me in the same frame of mind.
I went on a couple of
I went on a couple of Critical Masses last year but found the sactimony a bit cloying. Half of the comments on this thread put me in the same frame of mind.
I went on a couple of
I went on a couple of Critical Masses last year but found the sactimony a bit cloying. Half of the comments on this thread put me in the same frame of mind.
He might be a gold medal
He might be a gold medal winning track cyclist but he should keep his mouth firmly closed when it comes to proselytising on road riding. But having said his bit there are a lot of twats who ride bikes doing all the things he whinges about, but there are also a lot of cyclists who don’t who ride responsibly. Tarring us all with the same bad brush is just ignorant. Very disappointed that he’s given up the world of cycling only to join that of motorsport. 8|
I totally agree that cyclists
I totally agree that cyclists should not do stupid things.
BUT: Why limit it to cyclists?
😕
I’d go one further and say that PEOPLE should not do stupid things.
I hope Sir Chris extends his anti-stupidity policy to anyone he sees, in any environment, doing anything remotely stupid.
Then the world will be all sunshine and rainbows.
Or perhaps……
in my experience genuinely stupid people,
are often
too STUPID
to listen.
paulmcmillan wrote:I totally
We’ll always have problems on the road through accidents due to human failings but ideally to minimise these and remove to morons and the world would be good.
I do understand what he was saying but accept that earning respect is the right term.
SB76 wrote:paulmcmillan
We’ll always have problems on the road through accidents due to human failings but ideally to minimise these and remove to morons and the world would be good.
I do understand what he was saying but accept that earning respect is the right term.— paulmcmillan
Is not, doh
I was doing something similar
I was doing something similar like this today… moving from side to side and even going up on the curb and just missing car ..or them missing me … what was i doing trying to miss all the potholes … its a pity we don’t here more of the top cyclists voices advocating a big change to our roads … sorry Chris probably never seen me… but he might have seen the roads
Chris Hoy is something of a
Chris Hoy is something of a role model and a very, very experienced cyclist. Some may be surprised to know that even track sprinters do an awful lot of cycling on roads as well as on the velodrome.
As a role model, internationally known cyclist he has quite rightly spoken about the thing on which he is most expert i.e. cycling.
He has every right to criticise bad cycling and if he chooses to do he has a right to criticise bad driving – but he doesn’t have a duty to do so.
Perhaps if he becomes a successful racing driver he may then be an influential role model for drivers and maybe then it would be appropriate for him to speak out about that to his followers. But again there is no duty to do so.
I, like Chris Hoy, get heartily fed up of people defending bad cycling. I do frequently criticise both bad cycling and bad driving because I have a right to do so. None of us however has a right to break the law by bad cycling or driving and whatever your excuse it doesn’t excuse the behaviour.
Quote:Just because many (or
…and I’ll say it again, I don’t see anyone here suggesting that cyclists should be allowed to break the law. How simply can this be stated? Demanding the right to a safe road environment does not mean condoning dangerous cycling.
I was wearing hi-viz, a helmet and sporting full lights while cycling on an official cycle path that was completely segregated from the road (not a cycle lane). A motorist knocked me off my bike. If you follow the logic of some of the arguments on here, it appears I should just expect that sort of thing until bad cyclists have reformed and earned “us” more respect.
Cyclists are not the problem. Stop apologising and demand better.
I don’t believe that rules
I don’t believe that rules are there for the breaking but I do advocate a degree of common sense to cycling behaviour, applying the spirit, rather than the letter, of the law. In that regard, I don’t see anything wrong with cautiously filtering across junctions, using pavements or anything else on a bicycle if it is done in the same way that you’d do it on foot i.e. carefully and with due consideration to other road users and pedestrians.
The term ‘Jumping Red Lights’ infuriates me especially when pedantry motorists think cyclists are really ‘road vehicles that don’t pay road tax’ rather than ‘pedestrians on two wheels’. I don’t suggest we teach our kids to ride irresponsibly on cycling proficiency courses but a degree of perspective wouldn’t go amiss.
I appreciate Hoy’s position but is he going to lose his rag whenever he sees a car pull into a cyclists priority zone or encroach into a cycle lane or any other multitude of minor road traffic annoyances that motor vehicle drivers perpetrate every single day? I doubt it.
“Chris Hoy has emerged as one
“Chris Hoy has emerged as one of Britain’s most vocal advocates for cycling”
Really? I think the Chris who has emerged as one of Britain’s most vocal advocates for cycling must surely be Boardman. There must be ten really sound things he has said reported here for every utterance from Sir CH. I don’t think CB wants to go away and drive inappropriate motor cars either.
Oh for goodness sake, stop
Oh for goodness sake, stop trying to stick up for bad cyclists, just because they are cyclists! There are far too many comments on here that are moaning that Sir Hoy had the audacity to citicise a cyclists and then talk to the press about it.
It’s about time people on here got to grips with the fact that not all cyclists obey the rules of the road – and before you scream about car/lorry/tractor/invalid carriage/pony & trap drivers doing the same – we all know about them, I’ve been hit by a car and got quite seriously injured, bike written off in a not my fault RTC. But this isn’t about car drivers, heaven knows there is enough moaning about them on cycle forums the world over.
This is about cyclists, doing bad things when out riding, jumping red lights, riding on the pavement (if it’s not a cycleway) and other anti-social stuff. We’d be screaming our heads off at a car driver doing the same! Time to learn that we’re not perfect and we could do with taking this advice.
All the good work done by 99.9% of cyclists can be undone by 1 idiot behaving badly. It can send out all the wrong signals and make more anti-cycling drivers.
Just because they are a cyclist don’t mean they are right!
Rich_N_ wrote:Oh for goodness
I confess I haven’t kept fully up with the thread but I’ve yet to see a single post that sticks up for bad cyclists.
My riding style factors in
My riding style factors in the motorists that don’t pay attention or give a f**k. I’m not out there riding like an arse but in general i cycle how i feel most safe. If i need to get up on pavement or run a red i’ll do it to stay out of trouble or to let traffic get by etc.
I won’t agree with everything
I won’t agree with everything said in a lot of the comments above. But I’m a bit saddened by Chris Hoy’s comments. I’ve been a cyclist since 1973 when I joined a club. I have also been a professional driver most of my working life.
Actually I’ll take it out of cycling and road use. Let’s just talk about people you walk past in the street. Do they have to earn respect to get common courtesy? I think not they should get respect as a default. They might individually lose it by their own actions. But you should respect people on face value and work from there.
As a motorist I don’t jave to earn anyone’s respect. I give courtesy to other road users a matter of course.
Why is that different when I’m a cyclist?
Chris is just a young lad so maybe he just hasn’t thought this through. I’m sure his mum will set him straight.
There are people that are arseholes. But people in general should be respected. There are drivers that are at arseholes but drivers in general should be respected and there are cyclists that are arseholes but cyckists in general need vto be respected.
Default = respect for all road users.
Chris. Have another chat with your mum.
@ oozaveared – what a
@ oozaveared – what a patronising load of sh*te. You should be ashamed.
Cyclists can’t complain about being thought of as tossers by a significant minority of motorists if a significant minority of cyclists actually are.
Hoy’s right, you earn respect – you don’t demand it.
Huw Watkins wrote:@
Well I don’t know where you live or how you were dragged up. Your language indicates a less than ideal attitude.
I was brought up to respect people as a matter of course. They might lose respect by their actions but that was up to them.
Chris Hoy seems to have not thought about the implications of his remarks and im sure he respects most people without them having to pass some test. You though have had a chancet to consider my point.
So your settled position is that cyclists are to be generally regarded bad until they earn respect.
All i said was that we should respect all road users as a matter of course. Until an individual proves other wise.
Basic humanity really. Respect people as a matter of course. Let them un earn itt if they must.
And I’m not in the least bit ashamed of that.
Good manners cost nothing.
oozaveared wrote:Huw Watkins
Well I don’t know where you live or how you were dragged up. Your language indicates a less than ideal attitude.
I was brought up to respect people as a matter of course. They might lose respect by their actions but that was up to them.
Chris Hoy seems to have not thought about the implications of his remarks and im sure he respects most people without them having to pass some test. You though have had a chancet to consider my point.
So your settled position is that cyclists are to be generally regarded bad until they earn respect.
All i said was that we should respect all road users as a matter of course. Until an individual proves other wise.
Basic humanity really. Respect people as a matter of course. Let them un earn itt if they must.
And I’m not in the least bit ashamed of that.
Good manners cost nothing.— Huw Watkins
You’re very good at patronising people, oozaveared. Is it a natural proclivity or do you have to practice?
Hoy said ““When I’m out on a bike and I see someone doing something stupid I will absolutely have a word with them at the next set of lights.”
I cannot see any problem with that. He does not say that he goes out of his way to chase people down. He just has a word. Where’s the problem?
His view seems to be that a few idiots harm the reputation of the rest of the cycling population and he’s not prepared to stand idly by.
Am caught in two minds here.
Am caught in two minds here. Possibly three or four.
Answer being better and more training, and better and more enforcement of traffic laws. For both cyclists and drivers. Oh, and a sane and sustainable transport infrastructure – legal, physical and political. Not possible to sustain that level of optimism for long without more drugs than the 1985 Tour De France peloton, but I’m going with it anyway.
So I don’t feel left out, you may assume seventeen random swearwords here. I include roflcopter and twatwaffle as at least two of them.
Cyclists have a role to play
Cyclists have a role to play in running a smooth, efficient, comfortable and predictable transport system. Motorists have a role to play in doing the same, whilst not killing and maiming anybody in the process.
Clearly the consequences of the cyclist not performing their role are significantly less important than the motorist not performing theirs, but the cyclist’s role is not devoid of importance all together; they’re still an integral part of the vast transport web.
Just because one’s actions don’t kill someone doesn’t make them entirely excusable. But neither should they be treated, or brought up as key issues in matters of life and death if they are not relevant.
Rather than fumbling around with vague words like ‘respect’, it’d be better if the traffic laws everyone is grumbling about could simply be enforced by an unrelated, official third party. For example, by the Police, maybe. This is a matter of law and enforcement, not an matter of morals*. And until we design bad/lethal road user behaviour out of the transport network system entirely, enforcing the law properly remains the only (makeshift) solution I can see.
If there’s one thing we can probably all agree on, it’s that getting angry at each other on an internet forum is unlikely to change anything significant out in the wider world.
*not ones that can be meaningfully affected by spats on internet forums, in pubs, newspapers or anywhere else.
Quince wrote: If there’s one
[quote=Quince] If there’s one thing we can probably all agree on, it’s that getting angry at each other on an internet forum is unlikely to change anything significant out in the wider world.
Actually, I think debate can be useful. I’m also pleased that – doing a very rough count -anti-what Hoy said about 40 posts, pro-about 20, with about 20 in between.
I
I’m afraid that Hoy is stuck in the fatalistic school of od club cyclists (I know, I was brought up as one) that motorists own the roads (they “pay a tax”) and that cyclists have to earn respect from them. My view is that drivers should earn respect from other road users.
Does Hoy go out in his racing
Does Hoy go out in his racing car and chase down drivers who run red lights/speed/drink drive/kerb crawl/hit and run/drive unroadworthy vehicles/drive whilst phoning-texting-reading-eating-fiddling with satnavs-shouting at kids on back seat instead of looking where they are going or is it very much only cyclists he sees as deserving of his chasing after and lecturing?
You have to earn not being
You have to earn not being killed?
Chris is a medal-winning sportsman, great, but he’s quite a conservative guy, framing the debate in his Edinburgh circa 1983 way, might not know much about European infrastructure others are pushing for. He’s out of his depth, makes Boardman look pretty smooth.
He could do worse than read an hour or two of http://www.copenhagenize.com/
vbvb wrote:You have to earn
Come on man, read the article. He told someone off for jumping lights and riding on the pavement. I agree with him. I live in Edinburgh and generally, motorists are pretty accommodating to cyclists (as they should be). However, when you get twits treating the streets like a race track or playground it irritates people – and I personally don’t wish to share the road with an irritated driver.
Glad to hear that Sir Chris
Glad to hear that Sir Chris is a responsible cyclist. I understand his feelings and share the sentiment, but I’ll be surprised if his approach of shaming idiot riders has much beneficial effect. Shouted advice rarely does.
Deleted comments…how
Deleted comments…how bizarre.
I’ll say it again then…go build your own race track / circuit and whinge there mr I’m a race car driver now.
After reading the comments on
After reading the comments on here there are lot of genuinely good ones but as always the “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” cyclists are in abundance which is a shame.
stumps wrote:After reading
I genuinely can’t work out on which side of the argument you lie 🙂
KiwiMike wrote:stumps
haha, its a conundrum isn’t it !
I agree with Hoy on this but rather than face the wrath of others i’ll say no more 😀
stumps wrote:After reading
Nothing spoils a ride like a punch in the face. I guess that’s why a lot of people avoid confrontation.
Things Not To Bring Up At
Things Not To Bring Up At Cyclist Dinners:
Helmets
Hi-Viz
Red Lights
Use Of Dual-Carriageway A-Roads
Urination In Public Places
…and now:
Collective Responsibility And Punishment
(I really should do a website on this)
KiwiMike wrote:Things Not To
Might be quicker to document what you can discuss
😉
Excellent response here:
Excellent response here: http://helenblackman.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/chris-hoy-cycling-and-the-borg/
It seems one famous cyclist named Chris “gets it”… but the other doesn’t.
velovoice wrote:Excellent
Thank you for the article. That was a strong piece of writing.
As someone has said, there can definitely be an element of Stockholm Syndrome about the whole relationship.
Given the one-way anonymity, power-imbalance, and supposed authority with which a car is driven (“road tax”, sticking within social boundaries etc.), I think there’s also a strong element of the Milgram Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment) to the whole thing as well. From a motorists perspective, cyclists are small, weak, in a separate, dislocated environment, and breaking social norms, and breaking the law (e.g. in not paying “road tax” [despite it not existing], and in ‘always’ running red lights [despite it being statistically much less frequent than obeying them]).
The one-way anonymity, separate environment, power-imbalance, and ‘conformity to a supposed authority’ are the four elements that fundamentally define the Milgram Experiment, and I think they’re all present in the Motorist/Cyclist relationship and typical environment; the weakest link being the ‘authority’ one, but that may explain why people are so keen to make claims about “road tax” and red light lumping, despite them being realistically minor or non-existant issues.
I’ve yet to see someone write a really solid piece of literature or study about the Milgram effect in the Motorist/Cyclist relationship. In fact, I’ve yet to see anyone write anything about it at all, which seems a waste, as I can’t help but feel it’s a highly significant factor in why a large number of seemingly ordinary people around the world seem to have no qualms about posting their desire to murder other humans beings over social networks, simply because those human beings are using a different form of transport. The crux of the Milgram Effect is that is severs relationship and responsibility between ordinary people with different levels of inherent power and vulnerability. This is exactly seems to be happening out on the roads every single day.
The last time I checked,
The last time I checked, cyclists are humans, just like motorists. Compared to a car, the human on a bike will always be in the worse position. Many idiot humans in cars disregard the life of a human on a bike (I was nearly taken out three times on one 28 mile ride).
After a while you start to realise that sticking to the rules will not protect you. You can just as easily end up dead obeying the law as you can breaking it.
Respect is earned is it? What a stupid thing to say. So by that logic, the driver who knocks someone off his bike is justified because another cyclist jumped a red light, after all, they’re all the same right?
A traffic system should not rely on respect.
ronin wrote:The last time I
[quote=ronin]The last time I checked, cyclists are humans, just like motorists. Compared to a car, the human on a bike will always be in the worse position. Many idiot humans in cars disregard the life of a human on a bike (I was nearly taken out three times on one 28 mile ride).
Why do some cyclists believe that as they do less damage than a car it allows them to disobey rules? “I was nearly taken out 3 times on a 28mile ride.” Only nearly though. So shouldn’t the drivers of the cars be let off. After all, they didn’t hit you. Of course not. Just because someone does no or little damage does not excuse their behaviour, not car driver, HGV driver or cyclist.
Yes, you might end up dead after following the rules. In that case, flout them all. Drive without a seatbelt, motorcycle without a helmet, smoke while filling your car up, run across level crossing when the barriers are down.
Come on Ronin. We ALL, regardless of form of transport, need to behave responsibly and treat others with respect too.
I say ‘Well done’ to Chris Hoy.
When you’re driving and you
When you’re driving and you let another car in and receive no wave of thanks isn’t it annoying? Plenty of cyclists ride as if they’re alone on the road. Motorists think that either we’re too arrogant to acknowledge they’re there or we are too dozy to realise they’re there.
– Single out on busy roads,
– Give a wave of thanks when someone waits to overtake safely
– When filtering to the front of a long queue of ‘masters of the road’ give the first driver a little smile and a friendly wave to thank him/her for their patience and to encourage them not to leave your husband/ wife a widower/widow.
I’ve found 90% of drivers respond favourably to this approach and it leaves them with the idea that they’ve shared. The other 10% are either senile or sociopaths and no amount of friendly cycling will change their behaviour.
Be firm. Be polite. Own the road. Smile and wave.
It’s getting through slowly.
Oh, and when you pass horse riders on your bike remember to raise your fist in the Black Panther salute and say ‘Riders of the Road Unite!’ in a Wolfie Smith manner.
“the reputation of the
8>
“the reputation of the cycling population….”
Laughing a lot at the
Laughing a lot at the supposed pc plod trying to take the moral high ground when they are the main reason some people refuse to ride or walk anywhere…
I don’t see how you could
I don’t see how you could possibly disagree/be offended by Hoy’s comments, cyclist or otherwise. The etiquette on the road by club riders is generally pretty good, but the amount of stupid riding I see around Leeds is pretty shocking. Riding at night with no lights, jumping red lights, hopping up on the pavement for no good reason, undertaking when it’s not safe to do so…
Sure, car drivers can be dangerous but the vast majority of are courteous and safe. It’s the small majority who drive too close or scream out of the window at you for riding two abreast that give motorists a bad name, same goes for moronic cyclists with a death wish.
Driver ‘pictured reading book
Driver ‘pictured reading book on dual carriageway’
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/driver-pictured-reading-book-on-dual-carriageway-1-3362881
1754 people killed on UK roads in 2012 by motorists. That’s almost 5 people every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-annual-report-2012
Motorists are responsible for just under 95% of all accidents in Scotland caused by ignoring traffic lights:
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/analysis/statistics/TablesPublications/2011RCS-Cas
Edinburgh’s road safety figures for 2004-2010 show that motorists were responsible for 72% of accidents resulting in serious injury to cyclists:
http://streetsaheadedinburgh.org.uk/info/4/pedestrians/79/road_safety_statistics
For the UK, from 2008 to 2012 (inclusive), out of the total numbers of pedestrians killed in single vehicle collisions with vehicles in any location, cars
were involved in about 68% of pedestrian fatalities, and 81% of pedestrian serious injuries.
(cycles were involved in about 0.4% of fatalities and around 1.4% of serious injuries)
http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_public/pedestriansbrf.pdf
Like Aretha said, R.E.S.P.E.C.T, you have to earn it…
kcr wrote:Driver ‘pictured
All very interesting but what’s that got to do with Hoy’s comments?
He’s talking about idiot cyclists, not idiot drivers.
Quote: All very interesting
The point is that a number of people are suggesting, on the back of Hoy’s comments, that cyclists need to “earn” respect. I’ve posted a few examples of evidence that demonstrates how some motorists are responsible for significant harm on our roads. Despite this death and injury, we don’t tend to hear people saying motorists need to earn respect.
In fact, no one has to earn the right for their safety to be respected. As I described above, I was run down while I was cycling on a segregated cycle path. I don’t think the behaviour of that driver changes my responsibility to respect the safety of other motorists and cyclists that I encounter.
kcr wrote:Quote: All very
The point is that a number of people are suggesting, on the back of Hoy’s comments, that cyclists need to “earn” respect. I’ve posted a few examples of evidence that demonstrates how some motorists are responsible for significant harm on our roads. Despite this death and injury, we don’t tend to hear people saying motorists need to earn respect.
In fact, no one has to earn the right for their safety to be respected. As I described above, I was run down while I was cycling on a segregated cycle path. I don’t think the behaviour of that driver changes my responsibility to respect the safety of other motorists and cyclists that I encounter.
You are correct, on the thread, I’ve stated we need to earn respect. That phrase isn’t necessarily what I mean and perhaps not what most mean.
What I mean is to treat everyone how you expect to be treated. Hopefully by setting an example you gain more respect for both yourself and cyclists. By this I mean that a driver might be forced to question their prejudice! I sill expect all cyclists and drivers to abide by the laws allowing for the fact we are human and all make mistakes.
Of course, I am aware that sadly the real world isn’t like this but I still hope to abide by the rules and not react by becoming a worse cyclist in response to the idiots.
Of course
I saw a guy on an electric
I saw a guy on an electric bike going at considerable speed on a pavement to avoid traffic. Accident waiting to happen all it takes is a kid running out of a hidden accesspoint. Some people behave idiotically whether driving a car or riding a bike. Respect to him for pulling them up on it. More people need to point out unacceptable behaviour and lead by example maybe that will lead some people to change their behaviour on the roads for the better.some people however will always be idiots.
Chris’s need to earn respect!
Chris’s need to earn respect!
Before people called “Chris” start giving opinions they need to put their house in order and stop beating up Rihanna. Not to mention cutting legal aid budgets. And inflicting horrors like Lady In Red on an innocent public.
Sort yourselves out, Chris’s!
PS – he’s perfectly entitled
PS – he’s perfectly entitled to chastise individuals he happens to see doing something anti-social. No problem with that. I just will never buy the ‘earn respect’ nonsense.
An interesting comment by
An interesting comment by Helen Blackman. Road rage against cyclists in the UK is partly due to the perception that cyclists transgress normality, meaning using a car, and therefore question consumerist lifestyle. I never saw myself as such, on the contrary my bling bike and gear betray unashamed consumerism. I do advocate cycling and electric cycling as health and life style improving habits. Which falls on deaf ears. And my friends laugh when I dress in “tights”.
Attitudes will only change when motorists themselves become cyclists. When they discover the pleasure of gliding to destination under one’s own traction but also the terror of having to share the road with nutters in their killing machines. UK roads will only become safer for cyclists when cycling becomes so commonplace that it loses its elitist? righteous? stigma. Like in Holland or Denmark.
In the meantime, UK roads remain lethal. Cyclists should treat them with respect, the respect reserved for a big wild cat, ready to pounce at any moment: keep your distances, have a plan B at all times, approach vigilantly. For me, that also includes cycling through red when there is no traffic in sight rather than wait for green and be bolted by a miscalculating truck.
This is the respect Hoy should be promoting, the instinct of self preservation expressed through great caution. But he cannot, can he? Next best is to get as many drivers onto bikes as he can in as short a time as possible.
He better keep his comments about an incidental rogue cyclist to himself, it only fuels stigmatization.
Reading through some of these
Reading through some of these posts, there’s a theme that motorists hate cyclists because cyclists slow them down. I can’t disagree more. When I’m in my car or on my motorcycle, I’m rarely slowed down by cyclists. It simply doesn’t happen. However, when I’m cycling, I’m regularly slowed down by cars, vans, lorries and buses. They’re constantly in my way (Strava’s got a lot to answer for) but I’m not trying to kick wing mirrors off or put windows through because of it. I’m too busy trying to stay alive due to drivers of motorised vehicles driving them very very poorly. It’s nothing to do with what you’re driving or riding, it’s all about your attitude and the ability to operate your chosen vehicle.
And FWIW, there’s always a case to argue for a cyclist running certain red lights. Occasionally, it benefits everyone, but that’s an argument for another time. Pavement jumping (pavement riding full stop is a pet hate of mine) is an absolute no-no though, it’s simply unnecessary.
It strikes me that there is a
It strikes me that there is a difference in perception here. Chris Hoy seems to me to be commenting on the world as it is now, while those disagreeing with him are commenting on the world as it should be. It’s true every road user has a right to be treated with respect by every other road user, but today the reality is that we don’t get it always. There are a significant number of motorists who do use the poor behaviour of some cyclists to justify their own bad behaviour and what this means is that the actions of some cyclists do indirectly put the rest of us in danger.
No matter how neanderthal the views of these motorists are, if reducing the number of RLJing cyclists will make the roads safer for the rest of us (and I think it would) then I’m fully behind Chris Hoy.
Meanwhile, nothing that he has said suggests he agrees with the motorists who use this as an excuse to treat cyclists poorly. To get from where we are today to the environment we would all like to see means that some things have to change. If exchanging words with an aberrant cyclist helps us get there then I’m in. Ditto for an aberrant motorist (although I’m less convinced about our ability to change the minds of dangerous drivers).
Whilst it seems he thinks
Whilst it seems he thinks that the gist of what he was saying is reflected, Chris did comment on twitter that some of his quotes had been shortened in the interview, some points he made didn’t make it in and he wasn’t keen on the headline.
Whatever the case, I’m still much more narked off by the fact that the Telegraph continues to post recreational (for want of a better word – I mean other than pro stuff that would appear in the Sport section) cycling articles and features in the “Men” section of the paper. Apparently they still think it’s not for the ladies. THANKS GUYS.
Depressing the number of
Depressing the number of commentators here (including the author of this article?) always need to frame these debates in terms of cars vs cyclists, as though the two groups are diametrically opposed. as though it’s a war, and if you stick up for one group you ‘hate’, or are ‘anti’ the other.
Most people on here are probably both driver and cyclist so unless road cc wants to alienate most of it’s readership I suggest it takes a look at how some of it’s stories are phrased.
If it turns into a militant, biased site which can only ever see issues with blinkers on, it will put off the people it’s trying to engage with (you know, the affluent ones who are likely to buy the products advertised on here, the revenue from which keeps the site going..)
700c wrote: … put off the
That’s an interesting prejudice you have there.
700c wrote:Depressing the
Of course, those who just accept the dominant prejudices have their own biases, even as they convince themselves its only those ‘militants’ who disagree with them who are ‘biased’.
Your allusion to the illusion of ‘free speech’ (its never free it costs money and the views of those with money tend to dominate) is interesting, but its not exactly a logical or moral argument is it? Its just another form of ‘might is right’.
What are these “cars” you
What are these “cars” you speak of?
You mean “drivers” vs “cyclists”.