Who could have imagined that we would ever be talking about improving braking on a road bike. Why bother? Last time I checked going slowly wasn’t the aim of the game. But it is coming, without doubt. Disc brakes on the road will be the buzz groupset development of Eurobike 2012 aka 2013 for the market. Fact.
You don’t need to look very deeply into the comments section of articles on the matter to realise this is dividing opinion and it will continue to do so. I am all for discussion but my problem with most of the negative comments is that they seem misguided or misinformed to me.
Allow me to set the record straight. Discs for the road is not just a sly way to make you buy more bikes and bicycle engineers have not run out of scope to improve the performance of framesets. We are just scraping the surface with carbon technology for the bicycle in so many ways. Stagnation on that front will not be reached for a while yet, but I can explain that another time.
Here is my take on discs…
At Eurobike this last year a lot people were surprised that there was no complete hydraulic disc solution on the market. A full 14months on from the UCI lifting the ban on disc brakes in cyclo-cross and still no solution from the big 2.5 component manufacturers [Shimano, SRAM, and Campagnolo], but from an industry view this was no surprise at all. That is because the industry as a whole is nervous of cyclo-cross. If you look to mainland Europe ‘cross is widely considered to be a sport for a) Belgians and b) Professionals. That's not a big market to aim at. Shimano’s amazing cyclo-cross developments with the CX-50/70 are a great example of how tentative the industry is towards 'cross. Two cranksets and a few front derailleurs is hardly massive investment. And that ladies and gentleman is the important word – investment.
Despite its growing popularity ‘cross will never provide the return on investment to justify the development costs. The numbers just don’t add up. If you consider the amount of money that is going to have to be invested to bring discs to the curly handlebar market in a big way, you can rest assured it is not something that will be done lightly. It will not be a fad and it will not be purely for ‘cross
What is most interesting to me is that without realising it the UCI, with its rule change, has sparked a much greater debate in the industry. What was previously an incoherent rumble going on in the background is now a mainstream topic of conversation. Would discs actually provide any advantage to a road bike? Yes. Frame manufacturers are really pushing hard to come up with a frameset in time for the known launch of the complete solution groupset. Discs are coming to the road market, and the cyclo-cross market will benefit as an aside.
With discs come many benefits, but the real advantage will not be from ultimate braking force. It will be consistent and well-modulated braking in all conditions. It will make sense to you when you ride it you just might have to stomach an initial weight penalty and a barely measureable aero disadvantage. Oh and be a little brave to try something new that you don’t like.
I feel sorry for the likes of TRP, Hope and USE that have invested in the converter solution; a good idea but too late – although all three are probably working on fully integrated solutions themselves – TRP are certainly said to be. My guess on which the manufacturer will break cover with a road disc groupset? Well, it's not a guess I know, but I'm not going to betray any trusts by saying here – it won't be long before you know and anyway it doesn’t take a genius to work it out. With the launch of EPS you are down to 2 from the initial big 2.5. So it's a groupset manufacturer beginning with 'S' that's in the market for some technical innovation.
For me the most interesting aspect of the industry's decision to embrace disc brakes on road bikes is not the technical aspects of the exercise it's simply how much power the UCI has over genuine technical development, despite only 0.001% of the world’s cycling community being directly affected by their legislation. If that ban on cyclocross discs had never existed those many millions of cyclists who have never ridden a cyclocross bike let alone raced one would have been riding road bikes with discs years ago."
62 thoughts on “Discs on the road… The Insider has his say”
Another key point I reckon
Another key point I reckon when it comes to discs on road bikes is the ability to then get rid of that damn braking surface on the rims,probably saving a tiny bit of weight but more importantly having a rim that can be all-carbon, have decent braking and have very little in the way of wear n tear. Heard rumours somewhere too that the discs rotors are actually going to have to be much larger than first thought due to heat dissipation(i.e 160mm or 180mm rather than 120mm or 140mm), probably just another rumour though :/
Don’t think rotors will be
Don’t think rotors will be bigger as mtb generally have to stop higher weights with a sketchier surface (with discs often in mud) Discs contact patch could be wider if this was an issue – but think the key is modulation not emergency. The wheels on a road bike will lock up a plenty with 120mm rotors. Expect hubs to beef up slighter and rims to become lighter and more triangular ….
I’m waiting on my new road
I’m waiting on my new road bike with disc brakes, shipping with someone as we speak from America 😀
Yup, exciting in terms of
Yup, exciting in terms of wheel development and braking performance, though the aesthetic angle will be hard as brake callipers have pretty much remained unchanged in terms of looks for a century or so.
Can’t wait to see what comes forward from manufacturers.
Sean L wrote: the aesthetic
Personally I think the actual rotors have a rather pleasing aesthetic simplicity, but it’s true that the calipers often look a bit ugly. But then the MTB design aesthetic is (largely) different from road, perhaps a bit more functional than swoopy if you see what I mean. When the road ‘look’ is applied it’ll be interesting to see what comes out, as you say.
As for actually braking, can only be a good thing as far as I’m concerned- more modulation, less weather dependent, no rim wear, weight neither here nor there (for practical purposes.) What’s not to like? Well, apart from cost…
Very interesting.
Very interesting.
Maybe a Sram/Magura offering?
Maybe a Sram/Magura offering? It would make sense given the recent Magura teaser with the Red coloured graphics.
About time too i reckon.
About time too i reckon. Better braking can never be a bad thing. It’ll make slowing from 40+ mph so much more predictable especially through the winter months. I’m all for it 😀
How will this affect quick
How will this affect quick wheel changes in racing? I’m a complete ignoramus when it comes to discs, but it’ll slow things down considerably, no? Surely losing larger amounts of time when puncturing is not something pros will be keen on doing.
Max_Leonard wrote:How will
Far easier fixing a puncture on my MTB than my road/cross bike – just undo the QR & the wheel drops out and slots straight back in again. No need to faff around unhooking the brake cable or trying to shove the wheel back in before inflating the tyre.
Changing the pads is a lot less hassle than setting up rim brakes too. Force back the pistons, take the old pads out, shove the new ones in and bolt back onto your bike. It may take a couple of goes to get them lined up true, but it involves a lot less swearing than getting rim brakes aligned. The only real pain is changing/bleeding the brake fluid, but you don’t do that very often and the dog soon learns that DOT4 fluid doesn’t taste nice.
Oh and it feels lovely when you pull the brake lever with one finger and your bike actually stops, whereas when I’m commmuting down Cromford Hill on my Cross Bike I’m not sure I really have the power to stop dead if I need it.
Max_Leonard wrote:How will
I have a Croix de Fer with front and rear discs and I’ve found its actually easier to change the wheel… you don’t have to fiddle with the brake thingy to get the tyre past the blocks. The disc just slots straight back into the caliper easy peasy. And I’m no pro mechanic by any means!
Just shows how you can be fooled by how it looks. I’d say try them before making judgements.
Personally, I think they’re great (and mine are merely cable operated) but then I’m not obsessed about the extra gram or two in weight – I think it’d be just as easy for me to lose the difference by eating less cake!
Oh, and I’m only using it for clubruns and Audax events 😉
But they just *will* be too
But they just *will* be too heavy. Compared to a real lightweight road racer.
I’ve been riding a Genesis Croix de Fer as a commute bike for a couple of years. OK, it’s steel, has a pannier rack on etc. But the cable operated discs weigh a bloody ton!
And then there’s the maintenance. I would NOT try maintaining those things! You need to be a friggin’ watchmaker! The travel distance of the pads is about 0.5mm They get sticky so easily, and upon adjustment using the *teeny, tiny, strippable allen key hole*, begin to rub very easily.
A solution without a problem for road riding I’m afraid.
Animal wrote:But they just
they won’t be mechanical discs, they’ll be hydraulic discs, which weigh a great deal less and self-centre
dave_atkinson wrote:Animal
they won’t be mechanical discs, they’ll be hydraulic discs, which weigh a great deal less and self-centre— Animal
And for pros, I don’t think the weight is an issue – pro bikes can easily be well under the current weight limit. Neither is the maintenance. There is a real problem with crappy braking on carbon rims (see Geraint coming off the road descending in this year’s Tour), so – wheel-change issues aside – they will be welcomed I think? And where the pros go, the high-end market will follow.
Animal wrote:But they just
Depends on what you class as a real lightweight
My new bike with disc’s will weight in around the 6.6kg mark, fully carbon
So I just went to look on Evans for a similar spec bike and their weight, is 7.08kg thats without disc’s
Even a BMC team bike is around 6.4kg
My wheels are quoted around 1,460 – 1,490 gm set
Gkam84 wrote:
My new bike
and that’s presumably with mechanical discs, which are heavier than the new hydraulic road discs will be
dave_atkinson wrote:Gkam84
Add non-road specific hubs, we’d expect some wegiht savings vs mtn/cross hubs there too in the future
dave_atkinson wrote:
and
Yeah, Avid BB7 mechanical disc’s, so it would be lighter with the hydraulic ones
Not a problem at all for pro’s, i just don’t see them changing for a long time, it will be the younger riders who start out now, long before they even hit pro stage with a bike bought by parents and then go on to become pro’s who will start using them, i think
OR a rider who switches from cross to road
Would there be a significant
Would there be a significant weight penalty in making the wheels strong enough to cope with the extra forces that disk brakes would cause? I.e. A radially laced wheel would just fold under heavy braking
Stu Pomfret wrote:Would there
difficult to say for sure, there’s a lot of factors:
1) cross lacing will need to be used, so longer spokes = heavier wheel
2) rim doesn’t have to be built to withstand brake wear = lighter wheel
3) rotor needed + mounting points for it = heavier wheel
on balance i reckon wheels would have to be slightly heavier, but most of the extra weight is at the hub and the rim could be lighter, so in terms of rotational inertia there’s not likely to be much in it
Worries about maintenance? I
Worries about maintenance? I hadn’t seen that angle. Still, it will be a boon for MTB trained mechanics, who have been working on these things for years.
APF
alexpalacefan wrote:Worries
Excellent point. is there a point here also with Magura signing up with the new Garmin team? Shape of new Cervelo things to come?
Or one who’s told to use them
Or one who’s told to use them by the team being paid/sponsored by the relevant equipment manufacturer 😉
tony_farrelly wrote:Or one
Thats also true to a point, BUT unlike other sports, forgive me if i’m wrong, the WHOLE team bike wise ride the same of everything?
They get individuality on their shoes, eye wear and sometimes helmets??
So if a whole team approached their sponsor or manager and said, “Look, we’re not really happy about riding disc’s” i think they would be told ok, stick to what we know best??
Quote:more importantly having
Wholeheartedly agree with this. There’s also the added benefit of rims not overheating, melting glue and rolling tyres on long alpine descents.
As a long time mountain biker
As a long time mountain biker who only got my first road bike a couple of years back, I remember the discs vs rim brakes debate happening all those years ago on MTBs. Discs on even cheap mountain bikes are almost universal now.
Wheel changes – once you’ve done it a few times and learned the new knack, it really is just as quick as rim brakes.
Weight – look at the weight of a Shimano XTR disc vs rim brake set up and the weight difference even accounting for differing spoke lacing is negligible (plus as previously mentioned any extra grams are at the hub rather than at the rim giving handling improvements).
“feel” – the braking feel and modulation of a good hydraulic disc brake set up really is head and shoulders better than rim brakes.
Buckled rim after hitting a pothole? – this can end your ride on a rim brake bike if its a buckle of more than a few mm, on a bike with discs you’ll be far more likely to get home even if the buckle’s bad.
A big advantage for MTBs which is less of a factor for road bikes but may still count, is the fact that your braking surface on a rim brake is right down close to the ground constantly in contact with mud/puddles/grit whereas on a disc the braking surface is at the hub nice and high away from the ground. Less cack on your braking surface means better braking and less wear.
Personally I can see hydraulic discs becoming the norm over the next few years on higher end road bikes and gradually trickling down through the range.
Not for me. I don’t even like
Not for me. I don’t even like the way Campag have made high end groupset calliper brakes black. Black???! Just to mask some poor finish but lighter alloy.
Chrome caliper brakes will see me out. If I’m not going to ruin the looks of my beautiful bikes with black brakes I would hardly wish to sully them with some lace doily braking system.
We didn’t beat Hitler with disc brakes or plastic frames – it was good honest craftsmanship and British legs honed on the roads of the mother country. Stop all this madness now!
Yours
Colonel Bibshorts (rtd)
Tunbridge Wells
😀
My two cents:
1. Most bikes
My two cents:
1. Most bikes these days has internal cable routing (Smoother lines) and would look bit weird having a front cable hanging around on the fork. Will that be a huge aerodynamic impact? I think so. I also can tell you changing an internal disc brake hose on a MTB is a PAIN!
2. Nobody is talking about the forks themselves. Will they handle the stress?
Just a couple of points – BUT I support the idea of discs. Better braking in the wet is only a good thing.
New axle standard? Will QR
New axle standard? Will QR live on as we know it, or will we be looking at another more secure mounting?
There was long-standing debate in the MTB world over whether there was a real risk of the braking forces involved ripping the wheel from the dropouts.
The Russell Pinder case was where this came to a head, and was settled between the family and Fox (the fork manufacturers) out of court, so the official investigation and findings were never published.
But QR is all but dead in MTB circles now, on the front end at least.
Eliminating front end flex from suspension forks was a driver for the development of the through-axle systems now in place, but the safety of QR skewers with disk brakes was a hot topic for long time.
I can see why it is
I can see why it is happening, but they really are going to have to do something about wheel changes. On the MTB it can be a real faff, on the road bike undo QR wheel drops out bang new wheel in. On the MTB loads of faffing as the disc never slots straight into the dropouts. On the back it is worse as your fighting the rear mech at the same time.
News to me, it may be gone on the freeride/dh scene but look at XC (proper XC as in riding up and down hills from A-B) bikes and it is still definitely the majority.
A disc brake wheel is a lot
A disc brake wheel is a lot faster to change in my opinion, after spending a month assembling demo MTBs and road bikes. All you do is undo the QR (and unscrew it so you can get it over the idiot-tabs) pull it down and out. Reverse the process for a fresh wheel with a fully inflated tyre. Doneburgers.
It negates the need to undo the calipers (using that lever everyone loves to forget to redo after the wheel-change, which you only remember when you need pull the lever when going way too hot into the next corner), deflate wider touring tyres, check the alignment of brake pads (ever) or worry about your carbon rims, especially when you are a Clydesdale rider like myself.
I bought a CX bike as a
I bought a CX bike as a winter trainer for no other reason that it carried cable disc brakes. It’s a no brainer for me. Maintenance in my opinion is easier, set it and forget it, occasionally tighten the pad clearance, renew the pads once in a blue moon. The whole bike stays cleaner without the grinding paste off the rims in the wet, thus reducing maintenance ultimately. I would put my money on disc brakes being defacto standard in 5 years.
i could have done with discs
i could have done with discs on my tricross this morning, might have meant less time in the toilet patching up my nose and bending my glasses back into shape 😉
Why do they make everything
Why do they make everything constantly more intricate, unmaintainable, fragile and more expensive?
We are not all pros with mechanics and free kit!
9 speed was enough for me. They make me keep “up”grading my kit. Drive train, brakes, pedals every couple of years.
It’s all a huge rip off. Why not just ride bikes?
Animal wrote:Why do they make
Discs are no more intricate than capilers, in fact they have fewer moving parts, nor are they more fragile and they are also a doddle to maintain. There is nothing on a modern road bike that can’t be torn down and put back together by an average home mechanic (including freewheels)ok you do need the odd proprietary tool now and then
Whether discs are needed/better is another question, personally I think they are a better solution for me, liklely because I have and still do mountian bike and know how impressive hydraulic discs are in terms of stoppping power and modulation especially in the rain/sleet/snow.
I personally will be looking
I personally will be looking forward to a time when disc brakes for the road will be widely available for the masses. Definitely something I’d like to try out. The only slight problem I have is an aesthetic one, but I can also remember feeling the same when disc brakes hit the MTB market. Did see a couple of bikes at the CC nationals in Ipswich running discs at the weekend and they looked pretty good. No horrible brake squealing either.
For the folk saying this will
For the folk saying this will be too heavy:
http://www.canyon.com/_en/technology/project68.html
6.8 kilos, done years ago.
bazzargh wrote:For the folk
interesting what they say about the fork being a problem area and how their solution was to add two discs. I can see the problem though, you’d probably end up having a stiffer and heavier fork that would put an end to all the ‘vertical compliance’ stuff. Maybe we’ll have to have vertically compliant stems to compensate – Girvin flexstem anyone?
There’s clearly some technical issues to resolve with road discs but I reckon a lot of riders objections are aesthetic, which is pretty regressive. The maintenance issue is non-existant, a good disc brake is a doddle to setup and requires loads less maintenance. My hope brakes just need standard workshop tools to service and a bit of tubing when it comes to bleeding time.
Personally, I’m looking
Personally, I’m looking forward to disc brakes being available on road bikes.
Advantages for me, leisure, touring and commuting rider:
They work consistently in all weathers.
They don’t wear out your rims.
Disadvantages:
They might be a bit heavier than calipers.
JohnS I agree, though think
JohnS I agree, though think the weight disadvantage (if there is one) is irrelevant.
After the Midlands ‘cross championships at Sundorne in December I asked Hope team rider Dave Collins, who took 3rd place, about his disc brakes. Interestingly, he said that riding carbon rims that he felt disc brakes provided even greater benefit in the dry, with predictable braking every time, regardless of the state of the rim.
Been riding discs for over a
Been riding discs for over a year now on a Kinesis Tripster and i’ve found them to be great, especially on the rainy commutes. The BB7’s definitely seem to be more maintenance than MTB brakes though, and i’ve noticed the DC19 fork twisting a fair bit under braking – enough that the mudguard rubs the tyre.
See the last paragraph of the
See the last paragraph of the Garmin-Barracuda story. They’re coming!
http://road.cc/content/news/50151-garmin-cervelo-changes-name-garmin-barracuda-reveals-new-kit-video
Well to be fair, magura disk
Well to be fair, magura disk brakes can only stop a road bike ;-). They are not very well regarded in the mtb community.
However and this where i think you’re wrong 😉 I quite can see hope being amongst the very first ones to do a braking system for road bikes, something that will accommodate mtb shifters.
Ok I haven’t read al of it so
Ok I haven’t read al of it so sorry if I am repeating some comment.
Being a MTBer (I don’t even own a “proper road bike”) I have a lot to say about disks. To start with:
putting a wheel with a disk in is as easy if actually not easier than a rimmed brake wheel.
Weight is actually going to be the same if not lighter. Brake cables are made of good old heavy iron/steel, so having fluid inside is going to save you quite a lot. I terms of calliper/master cylinders, back in the days, the formula B4 was already lighter than a set of XTR V-brakes. As for the weight of the wheel, get the difference of the 717 disc and the 717 non disc and compare it to the difference of disk and non disk hope XC hubs.
Maintenance basically there is no such things as maintenance on a disk brake system. It’s fit and forget on a mtb so I can’t see road riding been nastier for brakes. Changing the pads is actually a lot easier than setting up some foucking rim brakes. And bleeding is actually easier and faster than changing a cable or even greasing it.
As for the fork managing it, carbon forks for MTB already exits, and they seems to cope just fine. Actually I can see the benefit of having the equivalent of the QR15 front and the 142 rear standard for road bike specially in terms of rigidity.
would you ride/race a road bike with a quill stem? Gear with no indexations? Both thec come for the mud side, and back in the days were considered to be the work of evil ;).
P.S. I know for advance this post is going to be full of mistakes, I’ll correct them later tonight once I have access to an english spellchecker 😉
I had a custom ti CX frame
I had a custom ti CX frame built for discs built 6 years ago because they simply didn’t exist at that time. The arguments about increased maintenance and poor reliability are spurious IME – BB7s are very easy to set-up and maintain and far less fiddly than many road brakes – if you can turn and Allen key you can install and service them! Whilst they are great for general trail riding, I still run cantis on my CX race bikes because the main issue for me is grip, not stopping.
On the road I see bigger benefits for discs – particularly using carbon wheels in the wet and better modulation and control on high speed descents. However, the possible downside is that riders will take bigger risks and we may see more incidence of high speed crashes on descents because riders will compensate for better brakes by riding faster / braking later – I’m afraid incidents like Casartelli or Weylandt may be more common.
monty dog wrote:the possible
I don’t think so Monty.
Did more crashes occur when they started wearing helmets (as opposed to the hairnet ones)? Have STIs prompted more wobbles than downtube or bar-end shifters? Did more people crash cars when synchromesh replaced crunch gearboxes and double-declutching?
The bolder riders will recalibrate their braking just as finely as they do now. They also stand to benefit more than us mortals from the absence of rim heat build-up on long descents as they’d be going considerably faster already and the braking will be more predictable than with rim brakes.
No-one is arguing that a climber on a 6kg road bike on skinnies needs the stopping power of a 14kg DH race rig with fat tyres so the braking power will be appropriate for the machine (which I hope means small rotors and tiddly calipers. TBC the adoption, or lack of it, by pro race teams is merely about marketing. I still see the biggest beneficiaries being those of us who ride all year round.
Bring it on I say! No more
Bring it on I say! No more switching pads between my alu crit wheelset and full carbon road race wheelset. Cuts down on repair time as well if you’re caught with a tire mechanical on the race course. Just loosen skewer, pull and go. Allows for the use of wider tires when course conditions dictate as such without penalty for running current itty-bitty side-pull calipers. I’m lucky if I can fit a 24c tire in my current caliper without loosening the tension bolt first.
Use discs on MTB and CX
Use discs on MTB and CX commuter and they are great. Wheel weight is currently an issue so road bike is calliper braked. When I jump back on the road bike I am always a bit horrified how crap callipers are compared to discs, but I love the zing of the lighter wheels and soon adjust to longer stopping distances.
Discs are BRILLIANT for panic stops on the road in commuter land. When it’s wet I always take the disc CX bike, if only cause in the wet drivers seem to drive 5x worse (worse visibility I guess).
However there is a point no one has mentioned: The reason track racing is actually pretty safe is because NO ONE has brakes. In a road pack everyone’s brakes are about the same so again everyone is braking poorly at relatively the same rate. If you put a couple of people in the peloton with discs and most with callipers the extreme difference in stopping ability is going to mean carnage for a year or two until everyone catches up. I suspect that’s when the teams and UCI get to work 🙂
Once you have ridden a disc equipped bike down an unknown mountain pass in the rain you get it. They’re not yet for road racing and ultimate go-fast club, but they will be more useful for most riders. No rim wear… very light carbon rims… hydraulic action… mmmm….
So, innovation, yes please. Have you ridden a race bike from the 70s or 80s recently? I have a lovely steel road bike, but it’s a 00s Salsa with a carbon fork, knocks the spots off anything else I rode in the 80s including Gios’, Team Raleighs etc etc. I suspect I will be saying the same about road brakes in 10 years…
The first daredevil who pulls
The first daredevil who pulls a minute out on a long (maybe wet) descent on the TDF – and the jig is up – they’ll all be in then …
For those of us whose best
For those of us whose best option to reduce our bike weight by 5 kg is to stop putting cream in our coffee (rather than spending $2000 to reduce component weight by 500 gr) adding disk brakes would add a great deal of safety while adding only the miniscule speed penalty.
roberdj wrote:For those of us
Nail on head.
Since I finally quit smoking (and ballooned), the beautiful and expensive Campag rim brakes on my Ti Audax bike haven’t brought me to a locked-up stop. In this time, the cheapo discs on my (marginally heavier) Boardman hybrid haven’t failed to stop me in significantly less distance, and have done so with much less worry about breaking myself or the bike.
The Canyon article is quite
The Canyon article is quite interesting and exposes some of the potential pitfalls (high fork stress, asymetric braking force affecting handling, heat transfer damaging the carbon structure). Also interesting they considered a cross FOUR wheel necessary. From an engineering point of view its pretty clear that the design of the fork needs to be considered extremely carefully. I wonder if the component supplier “S” is expecting this design to be handled by the frame/fork manufacturer. It is likely that many smaller companies don’t have anything like Canyons engineering expertise. Also, higher braking efficiency will come with a downside – consider how fragile 700c tires are – the tiny contact patch means locking up has a high likelyhood of blowout.
American liability lawyers are probably rubbing their hands with glee.
Once again lot of
Once again lot of “suposition”. Asymetric braking force affecting handling… Of course, MTB (and motorbikes) all goes on the side when you brake indeed.
Heat transfer damaging the carbon, once again there is no such thing as carbon brake disks. And carbon mtb are obviously known to be damaged by heat.
Plus and this is where you all get it wrong a bisk brake won’t add power but more power and progresivity.
P.S. Once again I haven’t got the english spell checker. I’ll correct this post tonight.
I cant believe discs have
I cant believe discs have been so long coming. For all us regulars the weight penalty is insignificant and the braking benefit is huge. Whats more I dont want to have to replace my new Mavics too soon.
And lets face it – rim brakes were last seen on horse drawn carts.
ppf What a bunch of wally’s a
ppf What a bunch of wally’s a lot of you are!!! What type of brakes are fitted to motrcycles and cars???? EXACTLY!!
Once they are fitted as std on some tourers,audax,winter,commuter road bikes,the development of lighter,sleek looking assemblies will naturally follow! Being a car driver and motorcyclist having ridden drum brake versions (some cars were very scary,with slow you down eventually type brakes)then progressd to disc versions, I would never consider goin back. Disc brakes have a lot of advantages on cycles,I ride mtbs,and ride a disc brake mtb on the road with slicks. I personally cant wait for the fitment on a road bike. All the worries about,disc sizes,weights,looks,etc will evolve in a short time,TRUST THE TECHNOLOGY. Test it before you pass a comment!
ppf ref.JUAN Carbon discs
ppf ref.JUAN Carbon discs have been used in motor sport for many years now.probably don’t think it will be required on cycles though.
Hi there, We’ve been using
Hi there, We’ve been using disc brakes for years, thats what wheel rims are! But the use of disc at the hub part of the set up is more recent 1960’s.So in fact nothing is new, only the improved materials & engineering systems have made them more practical. I’m currently in the process of having a new trike built with rear disc brakes. The entire braking system stays on the frame when the wheels are removed.Less messy than hub brakes on the rear. The weight of the new components make it quite practical, but I don’t want the same arrangement on the front, as that would require stronger forks. TTFN MM
I came from MTBs onto road
I came from MTBs onto road bikes, and have never felt anything like as confident with rim brakes as with my Hope disks.
Greater stopping power, more predictable in the wet or mud, less adjustment needed with wear, less wear on your rim, easy to change wheels (who said it would be slower? disk wheels are easier to swap in my book), no cable stretch, I could go on. Disks win for me, any day.
And the weight penalty? Yes, a disk wheel will be slightly heavier, but can be lighter at the rim, heavier in the middle. Shouldn’t bother anyone unless they only ever ride up hill, and then catch the train back down!
More progressive, consistent
More progressive, consistent & predictable braking to be welcomed (on my commuter/utility bike for instance). If my weekend road bike can remove it’s braking surface from the rim then manufacturers can also make wheels with rims both stronger and with much less rotating mass than currently possible (leaving just my fat arse to drag up the hills).
BUT are we talking about existing disc hubs (135mm) or a whole new line of 130mm “Road Disc Hubs”?
I usually groan cynically when I see new advances in technology but this one makes a lot of sense. Lets see what SRAM’s 2012 groupsets bring. I need a Do-Everything-bike this year…
The biggest mechanical
The biggest mechanical problems are going to be assymetric loading on forks (but that’s not insoluble, esp with carbon – I have cut up a lot of carbon forks over the years that have had decidedly assymetric blade flex rates) and on the rear, the whole 130 / 135 mm OLN conumdrum.
The biggest difficulty with rear end dimensions, as I see it, will come in the pro / serious amateur peloton – it’s bad enough now with 10 and 11s systems to cater for if we are running neutral service (worse than when we had the 9 / 10s divide, roll on DA 11s), but if we have two different rear end dimensions, then we might have a real headache on our hands.
Back in the day, when we made the shift from 120 to 126mm rear triangles it wasn’t too bad as steel frames could be “persuaded” with the QR or sprung, and in any case adoption of the new 126 width was very quick – I only recall it taking about two seasons to pass right the way through from pro to 3rd cat. amateur … and 126 – 130 was also still in the steel era and to a great extent the same thing applied. Gear systems were less picky, there was more slop in the system and we managed it all OK.
Now 130 / 135 is going to give us a headache with rear end spacings beacuse you can’t play quite so fast and loose with carbon or alloy frame spacings … shifting an alloy rear triangle 5mm is a job for strong fore-arms and a carbon frame – well, it’s just a no-no.
Gear systems are also a bit more picky about alignment these days and forcing rear triangles can cause all sorts of function problems.
Add to that the problem of rotor-to-seatstay and rotor-to-chainstay clearance when you put a disc wheel (with a 130 hub) into some road frames and you’re going to see a lot of very harassed-looking mechanics trying to do a wheel changes in the heat of competition.
Last, if we keep 130 rear ends and move the rotor inboard a tad, then the hub flange spacing starts to look a bit iffy – it’s bad enough on some rear wheels now – especially when you start to look at the torque-transfer requirements of disc brakes.
I’d stress that none of the above is insoluble … but it’ll take a very brave innovator to start the ball rolling in the race market.
What would make more sense would be for that “manufacturer beginning with S & looking for innovation” to apply development to the drop-bar commuter market, a far larger and much less conservative / image driven market than road racing / cross will ever be, thrash out the headaches there, use the numbers to drive volume and force a ground-up acceptance. That’s what I’d do … but then I don’t have Goldman Sachs behind me 🙂
I just picked up a new bike
I just picked up a new bike and I purposely stayed away from disc not because they aren’t a higher quality. But because the standard brakes are much easier to work on and find parts for. I got this bike here http://www.2wheelbikes.com/rs888-racing-bike.html
I like the name “idiot tabs”
I like the name “idiot tabs” – I cycled home from work one and wondered what the rattling sound was. I then hit a bump and promptly broke three ribs. Still got back on and rode home though!