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“You have a bike lane”

It seems that supermarkets are increasingly becoming the place to take motorists to task about close passes. This latest example, in a Bolton branch of Aldi, does however seem rather more justified than when a man challenged a woman in a Lidl car park last year.

The latest footage was captured by Grahame Cooper, a computing professor and retired lecturer at the University of Salford, who writes the Bike-Riding Motorist blog.

He believes the motorist seen in the video carried out an intentional ‘punishment pass’ because he wasn’t using a bike lane.

Being as they were both going to Aldi, he decided to confront him in there. The driver’s defence is perhaps most notable for his impressively frequent use of the phrase ‘bike lane’.

Cooper told the Manchester Evening News:

“He was in front of me in Aldi so I just thought I would leave the camera running and ask him politely to give me more room.

“Before the second overtake there is a cycle lane but I couldn’t use it because it’s over the apex of a bend and I’ve been cut up there a lot of times before.

“Also, there was a tanker crash before Christmas and there’s still rubbish and mud in part of the cycle lane and sand from preventing the fire. My contention is that he saw I wasn’t in the cycle lane and did what’s called ‘a punishment pass’.”

As Cooper points out, cyclists are not required to use cycle lanes, it’s up to the cyclist to use them if they feel it’s safe.

“Secondly, even if the motorist believes the cyclist should be in the cycle lane, they should not be aggressive towards them. Irrespective of what a vulnerable road user is doing, the motorist should not engage with them. If a pedestrian is walking down the centre of the road, you don’t threaten them.”

Cooper also mentioned rule 163 of the Highway Code which informs drivers they should "give a cyclist at least as much room as you give a car" when overtaking.

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

30 comments

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gethinceri [23 posts] 1 year ago
8 likes

I was looking for a storm in this particular teacup, but couldn't find one. A non-event, please stop reporting this tripe.

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Ush [901 posts] 1 year ago
4 likes
gethinceri wrote:

I was looking for a storm in this particular teacup, but couldn't find one. A non-event, please stop reporting this tripe.

 

Yeah, totally agree.  It's only news when the dangerous actions of the old fool pictured here turn into this:  http://road.cc/content/news/175287-no-charges-lorry-driver-involved-bank...

When that, or another "accidental" tragedy happens then please report on it  and make sure to get the full set of comments for Cyclist Death Bingo: 

"was doing X wrong"; 

"I am a cyclist too but ..";

  "cycling is too dangerous";

"we need more infrastructure";

"people with helmet cams are looking for trouble";

"the driver will be haunted for the rest of his life".

Bicycle infrastructure in the UK and Ireland is a ghetto, with all that that entails.  Until VAST sums are spent on it this sort of behaviour is one of the consequences:  doltish motorists can convince themselves that cyclists are privileged and selfish and should not be on the road.

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willythepimp [115 posts] 1 year ago
11 likes

While people are prepared to film their commutes, edit and upload so the world can see that lots of drivers are crap, I'm happy for road.cc to publish it. It is a catalogue of evidence that will eventually end the debate on who is to blame for most incidents on the road, and presumed liability will need more than anecdotal evidence if it ever does happen.

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JSutty [7 posts] 1 year ago
7 likes

Agreed, I feel road.cc should cut down on this kind of journalism.  Much of it feels a bit too 'tabloid', like they're trying to stir up feelings below the line.  Clickbait in other words.  Fine in itself, but when it's about something like this it isn't really going to lead to an "end to the debate" unless the evidence is more conclusive and doesn't revolve around arguments.

When you watch these videos how do you feel? Personally it gets my heart pumping, I get angry, because I've been in situations like this (well maybe not this one).  When you feel like that does the confrontation with the driver ever go anywhere?  Is this debate going to go anywhere when it's based on these kinds of feelings?  The only on-road debates I've had that have gone anywhere are when (for some weird reason) both myself and the driver have been calm enough to approach the matter like adults and even have a laugh about it.  I've decided that I will approach incidents (if necessary) by asking the driver if they want to pull over, sit down, and have a chat about it...if not we can continue shouting at each other but we're not going to get anywhere.  I think this video indicates that when emotions are running high, any sort of end to the debate or agreement is going to be pushed back.  The same could be said for articles which stir up these emotions.

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The goat [43 posts] 1 year ago
6 likes

Nice sunshine this afternoon for a brisk ride in the countryside.  Normally  I have few problems on my carefully selected route which I ride regulalrly but today I had 3 drivers prepared to take a risk with my life rather lose a second or two to pass safely. Infrastructure is one thing but just as important is a campaign to change behaviour.  Although I'm not a fan of cameras, used intelligently they could well be a tool to get things moving.

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harragan [195 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes

It's not clear if he shared this with the police.  If he didn't, then what's the point of this?  A video of a couple of angry blokes. 

Unfortunately, this happens.  But posting this video on YouTube solves nothing. 

Road.cc, plese stop publishing this stuff.  It's becoming increasingly dull.

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kil0ran [328 posts] 1 year ago
6 likes

New Year's resolution is not to get involved in this sort of thing on my commute - there's little point and as a cyclist you're incredibly vulnerable if they decide to escalate it. Had a couple of near misses from confronting drivers who'd come close to killing me last year - including where I just managed to avoid getting grabbed on a cycle path by four lads from a car I'd had an altercation with.

These confrontations are a form of road rage themselves - the sort where car drivers decide they want to educate another driver for their bad driving. They're rarely going to listen and they're the ones with a couple of tons of fast moving vehicle in their possession.

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Xwheels [23 posts] 1 year ago
4 likes

This nonsense should stop. Articles like this on road.cc are a big negative for cyclists.
Less publicity for people like this who quite possibly suffer some kind of personality disorders would be beneficial for the individual, but more importantly the millions of other cyclists in Britain.

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kevinmorice [142 posts] 1 year ago
3 likes
willythepimp wrote:

While people are prepared to film their commutes, edit and upload so the world can see that lots of drivers are crap, I'm happy for road.cc to publish it. It is a catalogue of evidence that will eventually end the debate on who is to blame for most incidents on the road, and presumed liability will need more than anecdotal evidence if it ever does happen.

 

No it won't. It will just be dismissed as a biased account since it is only seen from one side of the argument. Also, the more people that post their publicly chasing their supposed attackers the more it will get the rest of us an increasingly bad name as being out looking for trouble.

 

By all means record your problems. But then raise them with the police. Don't post them on the internet like some petulant child who thinks they are better than the law.

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Plasterer's Radio [296 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes

Key the car next time.

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Paul_C [496 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes

can the roadies please fsck off?

the rest of us want to cycle to work etc. in peace...

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Veloism [69 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes
gethinceri wrote:

I was looking for a storm in this particular teacup, but couldn't find one. A non-event, please stop reporting this tripe.

Agreed. Though crap like this is what Road.cc is known for really...

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MrHappyCyclist [17 posts] 1 year ago
3 likes
harragan wrote:

It's not clear if he shared this with the police.  If he didn't, then what's the point of this?  A video of a couple of angry blokes.

 

If you share with the police, they are not interested. They weren't even interested when a driver smashed into the back myself and my daughter, writing off both bikes and knocking her to the ground. 

Who was angry? It was just a polite request to the driver to leave more space.

 

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Eric D [111 posts] 1 year ago
4 likes

Keep showing these

  • If we only show the KSIs it's too late
  • it shows the link between poor infra and harrassment
  • maybe we need a law explicitly for deliberately bad driving
    ('reckless driving' seems to have become common since it was legalised)
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steviemarco [231 posts] 1 year ago
1 like

I must be a bad cyclist 'cos I would have just lost it with him and his attitude. Dark nights and ski masks et all!lol

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Stephan Matthiesen [63 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes

It would be best to log such incidents on collideoscope (http://collideosco.pe/) so that over time we get a database of dangerous locations and can focus lobbying the local councils for improvements.

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davel [1242 posts] 1 year ago
3 likes

road.cc and original uploader: please DO continue to post this stuff.

 

A sizeable proportion of people in cars think it's acceptable to show their frustration at people on bikes 'sense of entitlement' to be on the road, alive, and are OK with risking causing cyclists injury, through moves like this.

 

I'm all for any material that increases cyclists' indignation regarding that. And if berks in cars start to think twice about performing manoeuvres like that, lest they be chased down by an angry fit person with their heart rate up, that might have more of an effect than appealing to their intelligence or better nature.

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whobiggs [99 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
gethinceri wrote:

I was looking for a storm in this particular teacup, but couldn't find one. A non-event, please stop reporting this tripe.

 

I agree, this is not helping us at all. By all means report the serious incidences but sadly this seems like normal driving.

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oldstrath [758 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes
whobiggs wrote:
gethinceri wrote:

I was looking for a storm in this particular teacup, but couldn't find one. A non-event, please stop reporting this tripe.

 

I agree, this is not helping us at all. By all means report the serious incidences but sadly this seems like normal driving.

 

If this is normal  driving  where you are,  I'm  surprised anyone cycles. Utterly unnecessary to pass that close.

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kil0ran [328 posts] 1 year ago
1 like

And having viewed the video he should come and ride round here - if I got annoyed about low speed passes like that I'd be "having a word" with two or three drivers per journey on my 5 mile commute. Its the high speed (30mph+ ones) by large vehicles into oncoming traffic which are most dangerous - and why if I'm on rural roads and there is oncoming traffic I tend to sit way out in the lane (about level with where I would sitting if I was driving). As soon as clear, back into a secondary and wave 'em past. Occasionally get a beep but they won't make a mistake and think they can squeeze past - subconciously they'll twig that there isn't a gap there for them. Worst thing you can do is ride secondary and encourage MGP behaviour.

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MrHappyCyclist [17 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
kil0ran wrote:

And having viewed the video he should come and ride round here - if I got annoyed about low speed passes like that I'd be "having a word" with two or three drivers per journey on my 5 mile commute. Its the high speed (30mph+ ones) by large vehicles into oncoming traffic ... etc.

Read this blog article.

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davel [1242 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
whobiggs wrote:
gethinceri wrote:

I was looking for a storm in this particular teacup, but couldn't find one. A non-event, please stop reporting this tripe.

...sadly this seems like normal driving.

I don't disagree with that statement, but I do with what I think is the sentiment - and probably the prevalent one on these comments.

Yes, driving around cyclists is often shit, but bollocks to just accepting that.

I honestly don't understand the 'this isn't helping' attitude in many of the above posts.

Is it doing any harm?

Might otherwise reasonable drivers be motivated to perform punishment passes if they think we're all over-sensitive camera-wearers?

Are you aiming to put space between these YouTubers and 'the rest of us' because eventually everyone who gets in a car will give us safe distance, or segregated, well-designed infrastructure will just magically happen?

Or is it that you don't get too pissed off as long as it's not you getting knocked off your bike?

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wycombewheeler [1073 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
davel wrote:

 

I don't disagree with that statement, but I do with what I think is the sentiment - and probably the prevalent one on these comments.

Yes, driving around cyclists is often shit, but bollocks to just accepting that.

hear hear.

this afternoon I was riding on a lane that was less than 2 feet wider than a car, so naturally riding central, car comes up behind, there is no passing place for me to pull into, because all the passing places that there are are just mud, no tarmac. Well there was one point where I looked to wave him past, but at that point he was noi longer behind me because he was held up passing a car coming the otehr way. On exiting the narrow section I pull as far left as I can (road is clear) without falling into a pothole, and chavette in the passenger seat winds the windw down and screams "Move over" still I am not sure whether she meant move into the gutter, because we don't want to use the other side of the road to pass you, or move over so we can squeeze past you on the narrow lane. Time lost passing the oncoming vehicle was surely more than time lost waiting to pass me.

2 worst passes today both by learners supposedly under supervision, and this really annoys me, because if driving instructers are teaching people to pass dangerously close, there is no hope for us.

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kil0ran [328 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
MrHappyCyclist wrote:
kil0ran wrote:

And having viewed the video he should come and ride round here - if I got annoyed about low speed passes like that I'd be "having a word" with two or three drivers per journey on my 5 mile commute. Its the high speed (30mph+ ones) by large vehicles into oncoming traffic ... etc.

Read this blog article.

Understand the sentiment but please be assured I'm no "macho, battle-hardened cyclist" - I don't even ride in London. Just a realist who understands the risk I take every day on my commute. I do all I can to minimise that risk and stay out of the way of idiots - and that includes not confronting them if they've tried to kill me. The incident with the four lads last year made me realise the dangers of escalating these things - had their runner collared me (he half grabbed my rucksack and it was only the fact I was doing a decent speed that I broke away) at a minimum I'd have had my bike nicked and probably ended up being mugged/assaulted.

Realistically we all have no control over the actions of drivers other than trying to influence their behaviour through road position/defensive riding etc. Not much different to being a car driver having to trust oncoming traffic not to do stupid stuff - if you've ever had a near-miss with a head-on overtaker you'll know what I mean.

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don simon [855 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

It's the same piece of road that featured Bolton and poor diving/cycling relations a while back. It's a truly horrible road to drive down, let alone cycle along. the road markings are poor, it's a four lane road with junctions left and right and the indicator is little used.

I wouldn't have chased the driver down though, a quick wanker sign and let the muppet stop if they want to have a chat.

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MrHappyCyclist [17 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
don simon wrote:

I wouldn't have chased the driver down though, a quick wanker sign and let the muppet stop if they want to have a chat.

No "chasing down" involved. The driver just happened to be going to the same place.

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don simon [855 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
MrHappyCyclist wrote:
don simon wrote:

I wouldn't have chased the driver down though, a quick wanker sign and let the muppet stop if they want to have a chat.

No "chasing down" involved. The driver just happened to be going to the same place.

In that case, may I suggest going the other way and start using Lidl, it's far better than Aldi anyway.

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MrHappyCyclist [17 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
don simon wrote:

In that case, may I suggest going the other way and start using Lidl, it's far better than Aldi anyway.

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willythepimp [115 posts] 1 year ago
3 likes
kevinmorice wrote:
willythepimp wrote:

While people are prepared to film their commutes, edit and upload so the world can see that lots of drivers are crap, I'm happy for road.cc to publish it. It is a catalogue of eviden@ce that will eventually end the debate on who is to blame for most incidents on the road, and presumed liability will need more than anecdotal evidence if it ever does happen.

 

No it won't. It will just be dismissed as a biased account since it is only seen from one side of the argument. Also, the more people that post their publicly chasing their supposed attackers the more it will get the rest of us an increasingly bad name as being out looking for trouble.

 

By all means record your problems. But then raise them with the police. Don't post them on the internet like some petulant child who thinks they are better than the law.

Thankfully the motorists around my part of Cornwall are a patient bunch, and I have never felt the need to record my rides.

The point isn't about being better than the law, it is about raising awareness of the bad driving that a large proportion of commuting cyclists in urban areas have to endure. When cyclists are knocked off it is rare that they are at fault. It is also rare that the evidence of this is available.

While it does seem like vigilante antics in some cases, the reality is it is about a much bigger picture than the one incident.

Avatar
davel [1242 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes
kil0ran wrote:

Realistically we all have no control over the actions of drivers other than trying to influence their behaviour through road position/defensive riding etc. Not much different to being a car driver having to trust oncoming traffic not to do stupid stuff - if you've ever had a near-miss with a head-on overtaker you'll know what I mean.

Totally understand, and that incident sounds pretty scary. I don't take every 'dodgy' driver to task either.

What I'm puzzled by is remarks by cyclists like those above judging a YouTuber for going too far, and road.cc for drawing attention to it.

Yes, there are one or two notorious helmetcammers who seem to go out of their way to look for it or make a name for themselves, but so what?

Where's the harm in that, when just riding your bike on the road and having some inconsiderate (or worse) numpty in a car gamble on injuring you (or worse) is a regular occurrence, and the interaction is skewed so much in favour of the person in the metal box?

Given that's endemic now and certain rags, 'journalists' and clickbaiters are happy to paint cyclists as a homogeneous bunch of self-entitled(!) arses, where is the harm in a few more motons thinking that if they don't pass cyclists more carefully, they might be embarrassed or angrily confronted in a supermarket for it (and have the exchange posted on the Web)?