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Team Sky will race aboard the lighter, stiffer Dogma F8 within a fortnight

Pinarello have announced the eighth generation of their top-end Dogma road bike which, it won’t surprise you to learn, they say is lighter, stiffer and more aerodynamic than the existing model.

So, let’s get those stats in full. Pinarello say that the Dogma F8 is:

• 12% stiffer
• 16% more balanced
• 47% less aerodynamic impact
• 120g lighter for frame and fork (size 54)

More balanced? We’ll come back to that.

Pinarello say, “Pinarello LAB, Team Sky and Jaguar created a working group where everyone brought his decisive contribution: Team Sky with feedback from its athletes, Jaguar the aerodynamics concerns CFD [computational fluid dynamics] and wind tunnel testing, Pinarello LAB for cycling part, structural study and design."

The Dogma F8 is made using ‘new T11001K Dream Carbon with Nanoalloy Technology’ from Toray. Pinarello say that the material’s major feature is its stiffness-to-weight ratio. They claim that whereas a 54cm Dogma 65.1 with Torayca 65HM1K weighs 940g, an equivalent Dogma F8 frame weighs nearly 80g less while retaining the same structural characteristics.

“We have always said that weight is not a determining factor for judging a road bike, because often light weight means low stiffness and extreme fragility,” say Pinarello. “Despite this, because of the new tube profiles, the asymmetry and the new Torayca T11001K carbon fibre, we were able to increase the stiffness by 12% while reducing the frame weight to 860g. And if we add the weight reduction of the new F8 Onda fork, the Dogma F8 frame kit comes at an astounding 120g less than the Dogma 65.1 [size 54cm without paint and hardware].”

In terms of aerodynamics, Pinarello say, “We studied the performance of more than 70 frame configurations as different angles of attack for a total of 300 CFD analyses.

“A true aero profile should have an 8:1 ratio. However, the UCI regulations impose a maximum ratio of 3:1. The logical solution of applying a 3:1 ratio to a round tube yields an oval or egg-shaped cross section. This, however, drastically increases aerodynamic drag.”

“With the Flatback solution adopted on the Dogma F8, the oval section is flattened on the back side [to reduce] turbulence. This new tube shape dramatically reduces the aerodynamic impact on the Dogma F8.”

They’re very happy with the results. Pinarello say that they have reduced the aerodynamic impact of the new Onda F8 fork by 54% by reducing the size of the wake behind the fork legs, and that it’s 10% lighter: the raw fork is said to be 360g compared to 400g previously.

“With aerodynamic sections derived directly from the Bolide, the F8 fork legs act as sails that promote forward motion in crosswind conditions,” says Pinarello. “This effect is amplified when riding in stronger winds. The wind has always been an inevitable resistance that increases rider fatigue and hinders performance. Now with the Dogma F8, cyclists are able to exploit it.

“The drag is practically zero until the air has traveled halfway along the F8 frame. The resistance increases in the area of water bottles… [and] decreases when the air hits the seat tube, as a result of its aerodynamic cross section.

“After passing the rear brake, the… F8 does not provide any additional impedance to the air flow in that area… The rear sections of the seatstays and chainstays are effectively invisible to the air.”

The rear brake is sheltered entirely by the wishbone section of the seatstays so that it doesn't add to the drag, according to Pinarello.

And what about being 16% more balanced? What does that mean?

“Because the drive train of a bicycle is asymmetric, the frame needs to be asymmetric to balance the force that is applied to only drive side,” say Pinarello. “Your legs push on both pedals of your bicycle, while the chain drives only on the right side of your bicycle.

“It is obvious that a frame must be asymmetric to allow you to ride symmetrically.”

In other words, Pinarello say that they have taken the drivetrain forces into account when designing the frame and made the bike more balanced through the asymmetry of the frame.

Like previous generation Dogmas, the F8’s forks and seatstays curve but the amount of meandering is massively reduced. They’ve gone with an integrated seatpost clamp – which they call TwinForce – to improve aerodynamics (and the looks, we're guessing), and the new Air 8 aero seatpost will take a Shimano Di2 battery.

Other features include a small space at the top of the head tube to hold electronic groupset controllers and an Italian thread bottom bracket rather than a pressed in option. Pinarello see a threaded BB as, “By far the best solution to ensure rigidity, performance and reliability over time.”

All in all, this is a major redesign rather than just a case of tweaking details, and the drop in weight is significant. 120g is a big chunk off a Grand Tour-winning frameset, even given the fact that the previous generation Pinarello wasn't known for being extremely light weight.

When you have a Tour de France winner riding your bike, you make the most of it, and Pinarello have naturally asked Chris Froome to have his say.

“The first thing I realised with the Pinarello Dogma F8 is that just holding it you can feel immediately that the weight is a huge factor,” says Froome. “They’ve managed to get the weight right down, which for us is fantastic. Getting on the bike and trying it for the first time and taking it around a few corners, you can really feel the rigidity.

"When you push into the pedals the power goes straight through the bike. It doesn’t flex and it doesn’t move. Whatever power you put into the pedals, it goes onto the road. This is certainly a bike I hope I’m going to be winning another Tour de France on. I’m going to do everything I can to make that happen.”

Here's Bernie Eisel's take on the new bike:

The Dogma F8 frame has been approved by the UCI and will debut at the Critérium du Dauphiné which begins in Lyon on 8 June.

Mat has worked for loads of bike magazines over the past 20 years, and been editor of 220 Triathlon and Cycling Plus. He's been road.cc technical editor for seven years, testing bikes, fettling the latest kit, and trying out the most up-to-the-minute clothing. We send him off around the world to get all the news from launches and shows too. He has won his category in Ironman UK 70.3 and finished on the podium in both marathons he has run. Mat is a Cambridge graduate who did a post-grad in magazine journalism, and he is a past winner of the Cycling Media Award for Specialist Online Writer.

52 comments

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Clearboy [5 posts] 2 years ago
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I see those silly gimmicky twisted forks and seat stays have gone!  21

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Clearboy [5 posts] 2 years ago
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Will there be a fire sale on the previous model ha ha  1

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cat1commuter [1421 posts] 2 years ago
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Looks much nicer than the old Dogma.

Not very difficult to make it lighter and more aero than the old model, which was one of the heaviest bikes in the pro peloton with no particular aero features.

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notfastenough [3679 posts] 2 years ago
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They forgot to say that it also features 100% reduction in stupid wiggly tube shapes and 900% improvement in looks. Fact.

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giobox [356 posts] 2 years ago
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This is a huge improvement. The weight of the previous gen was embarrassing for a ~£10k bike. Much better looking too, and with a vaguely sensible name to boot! (What were they thinking with the "Dogma 65.1 Think 2"!?)

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Flying Scot [918 posts] 2 years ago
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Froome happy they got weight down?.......aren't all these things ballasted up to UCI minimums....i.e the same weight as the old one?

I don't want one.

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Pinaman [28 posts] 2 years ago
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Oh man I need one, may have to sell the Neil Pryde Bura now!!

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giobox [356 posts] 2 years ago
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Flying Scot wrote:

Froome happy they got weight down?.......aren't all these things ballasted up to UCI minimums....i.e the same weight as the old one?

I don't want one.

Even on super light carbon tubulars you struggled to get the old dogma to 6.8kgs.

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muffies [31 posts] 2 years ago
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i like how the guy says he feels a huge diff in weight when lifting the bike.
put your phone on your bike, lift. remove phone, lift. felt a huge diff? a diff at all?
That was 130-150gr diff...
since these guys generally need to add weight for regulation when competing anyway and thus dont care that much for weight, how am I going to trust any of his words now?

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ch [186 posts] 2 years ago
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Even if the form is the same, the quality of the carbon and it's weave is probably different for the pros.

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ch [186 posts] 2 years ago
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Regardless of how it works, would those squiggles actually act to reduce shock, or not? I really don't know the answer, but would like to know since the frames are now very cheap.

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leqin [171 posts] 2 years ago
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So when will the Chinarello version be available  22

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alotronic [463 posts] 2 years ago
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Looks like a Bicicletia Machino Campanio.

ie like the kind of bike an Italian would design if presented with the same engineering conclusions as the designers at BMC! And much better for it.

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tom_w [204 posts] 2 years ago
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Definitely an improvement, but still not that pretty from side on https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/inspire-ipcmedia-com/inspirewp/live/w...

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Super Domestique [1605 posts] 2 years ago
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giobox wrote:
Flying Scot wrote:

Froome happy they got weight down?.......aren't all these things ballasted up to UCI minimums....i.e the same weight as the old one?

I don't want one.

Even on super light carbon tubulars you struggled to get the old dogma to 6.8kgs.

Not too sure about that tbh.

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Jacob [40 posts] 2 years ago
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Someone has to say it... Disc version?

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Super Domestique [1605 posts] 2 years ago
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Also, from the side angle, there are still curves in the forks and stays that are hard to detect from these pics.

Edit for side pic link:

http://www.pinarello.com/en/news/dogma-f8-first-feedback

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DeanF316 [135 posts] 2 years ago
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Since a top spec dogma is pushing £10,000 even at clearance you are going to be lucky to get one at £7000 if you can find one in your size. Those twice the price of a Canyon Ultimate SLX. A far ligther and better looking bike. There will alot of Pinerollo dealers delighted with the prospect of having to slash prices to get ride.

I notice the only data Pinerollo don't is percentage increase on price oved the out going model. 25% plus at least would my guess by the time Yellow have aded their cut.

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TrekBikesUK [128 posts] 2 years ago
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"That down tube looks to be shaped for aerodynamics with the trailing edge of the profile chopped off square, presumably to save weight and to conform to UCI regulations. The seat tube and seat post look to have had a similar treatment with a curved leading edge and a squared off trailing edge."

*cough* 2012 Madone *cough* Kammtail *cough*

Ahem...

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Jacob [40 posts] 2 years ago
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The complete bike, including rider, is claimed to be 6.4 per cent more aerodynamic than the Dogma 65.1. Along with the 120g reduction in frame and fork weight and I'm not sure if current Pinarello riders will feel the need to go out and buy this new bike. Along with a price increase... Not exactly revolutionary.

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cat1commuter [1421 posts] 2 years ago
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I really don't understand why they stick with an Italian threaded bottom bracket. It is a flawed design, since it uses right handed threads on both sides, meaning that the bearings on the drive side act to unscrew the cup. OK if it doesn't happen on your bike, but if it does it it is hell.

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domd [12 posts] 2 years ago
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Im gonna miss the squiggly forks and seatstays... in a good way

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jollygoodvelo [1419 posts] 2 years ago
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TrekBikesUK wrote:

"That down tube looks to be shaped for aerodynamics with the trailing edge of the profile chopped off square, presumably to save weight and to conform to UCI regulations. The seat tube and seat post look to have had a similar treatment with a curved leading edge and a squared off trailing edge."

*cough* 2012 Madone *cough* Kammtail *cough*

Ahem...

 3

While I have to admit I also thought 'those tubes look a bit Trekkey', I don't think you can lay claim to an aerodynamic principle that's been widely known for over 70 years.  3

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ragtagcyclist [3 posts] 2 years ago
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Ahem...

Ok so the old squiggly fork was a marketing gimmick then. Tells you something about the company.

This bike does look nicer though.

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TrekBikesUK [128 posts] 2 years ago
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2Gizmo: Well yes. At least we had the courtesy to name the design after the guy that originated it.

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peter.haworth [1 post] 2 years ago
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Equally I think it's a bit low rent the official Trek twitter feed coming on here and trolling another brand. Haven't you got anything else to do?

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philipthelam [3 posts] 2 years ago
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These fancy angle shots make the bike look great, however upon looking at a normal side shot, I think this frame looks more ugly than the last one.

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domd [12 posts] 2 years ago
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Anybody else noticed that, at 1:57 on the 1st video the bottle cage is upside down?

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giobox [356 posts] 2 years ago
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Super Domestique wrote:
giobox wrote:
Flying Scot wrote:

Froome happy they got weight down?.......aren't all these things ballasted up to UCI minimums....i.e the same weight as the old one?

I don't want one.

Even on super light carbon tubulars you struggled to get the old dogma to 6.8kgs.

Not too sure about that tbh.

No need to take my word for it. Google the weight of Wiggin's bike: it's typically been 7.2kgs. You can also see the weights of ludicrously high spec builds over on the weight weenies forum, a dogma rarely gets under 7kg, regardless of spec.

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giobox [356 posts] 2 years ago
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Super Domestique wrote:
giobox wrote:
Flying Scot wrote:

Froome happy they got weight down?.......aren't all these things ballasted up to UCI minimums....i.e the same weight as the old one?

I don't want one.

Even on super light carbon tubulars you struggled to get the old dogma to 6.8kgs.

Not too sure about that tbh.

No need to take my word for it. Google the weight of Wiggin's bike: it's typically been 7.2kgs. You can also see the weights of ludicrously high spec builds over on the weight weenies forum, a dogma rarely gets under 7kg, regardless of spec. Sure a sub 6.8 can be done, but it's a lot harder and more exspensive than on a lot of competitor frames.

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