New survey from Sport England reveals drop in leisure cycling

BBB wrote:

I blame road.cc with their scary stories e.g. daily close passes etc...

 

 

 

But not Legs_Eleven_Wor, the poster just above you?

fixation80 wrote:

Given that we are living in an age of digital information and mis information, on line statistics, half truths and outright lies, a cyclists perception of his, her view may well be down to regional variations. Here in the North West cycling is very much alive and vibrant, seemingly in the last few years growing apace. The traditional club social cycling may be something in the past but again what is acceptable as 'social' today is again down to personal perception. I am a member of the National Clarion Cycling Club, a club that has seen a massive growth in membership through its sections around the country. Sections within the parent club have complete autonomy organising their section as almost independant cycling clubs setting their own membership fees, of which a basic fee is payable to the National body. Be it racing, touring, or just a social organised ride I believe cycling still to be a much loved pastime. As an aged eighty year old still with the will to beat my standard time in local time trials, still able to just ride my bike for pleasure and still seek the social side, I consider myself to be in a golden age.

is that you Derek?

Awavey wrote:

let alone a statistically significant drop, as based presumably on the fewer respondees they had this time around it has slightly altered the % they are calculating, which simply goes to prove how silly it is to extrapolate numbers from roughly 200,000 respondees up to national population trends.

Generally, you'd be surprised how well statistics can be extrapolated - the whole point is to take "representative samples" and they're actually amazingly accurate (<5% error). It'sthe same sort of way that opinion polls work.

Social media drives a lot of stuff like HIIT and Zwift - even if most of it is a bit of a fad and chances are it'll die a death within a year or so as people find the next cool thing to be seen to be doing.

That said, you can drive these sort of things more or less any way you want. There are of course standards in place to prevent (or at least mitigate) leading questions for these sort of serious surveys although there are countless examples of the gutter press or social media conducting "surveys" using questions designed to get the responses that they want to see.

Awavey wrote:

I think it shows there are lies, damn lies and statistics. And Ive no idea how anyone can claim the power of social media is behind an improvement of HIIT.

but then we seem to have a report which the raw data they link to doesnt back up, as can anyone work out how if the figure Sport England is quoting for November 2015/16 is 3,071,500 for leisure cycling and the figure they are quoting for November 2016/17 is 3,071,600 for leisure cycling, thats a drop ?

 

let alone a statistically significant drop, as based presumably on the fewer respondees they had this time around it has slightly altered the % they are calculating, which simply goes to prove how silly it is to extrapolate numbers from roughly 200,000 respondees up to national population trends.

I'm kind of with you on extrapolation, but you actually don't need a huge sample size to be representative.

As far as the increase/decrease goes, presumably when balanced against the population growth over the year, an absolute increase of 100 is a decline, proportionally.

davel wrote:

Awavey wrote:

I think it shows there are lies, damn lies and statistics. And Ive no idea how anyone can claim the power of social media is behind an improvement of HIIT.

but then we seem to have a report which the raw data they link to doesnt back up, as can anyone work out how if the figure Sport England is quoting for November 2015/16 is 3,071,500 for leisure cycling and the figure they are quoting for November 2016/17 is 3,071,600 for leisure cycling, thats a drop ?

 

let alone a statistically significant drop, as based presumably on the fewer respondees they had this time around it has slightly altered the % they are calculating, which simply goes to prove how silly it is to extrapolate numbers from roughly 200,000 respondees up to national population trends.

I'm kind of with you on extrapolation, but you actually don't need a huge sample size to be representative. As far as the increase/decrease goes, presumably when balanced against the population growth over the year, an absolute increase of 100 is a decline, proportionally.

absolutely agreed, but thats the one bit of info missing in the press release,  which means they can be misinterpreted and yet its the headline figure people are going with, "leisure cycling drops" and as Sport England states government funding is determined on which sports to invest in on this stuff, and yet they arent comparing like for like respondee numbers so there seems to be a bunch of assumed variables being applied all of which produce subtle variations.

Ultimately some daft local council might go well this HIIT stuff is clearly where its at now and its far cheaper for us to tweet about it alot, because Sport England tell us social media drives it, than bother with those pesky leisure cyclists who are expensive, and thats the promote active sport box ticked for the next year, and a budget saving, gin oclock.

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

No one gives a shit.  We're the last 'minority group' in Britain whom it is acceptable - and even cool - to hate.  Drivers know they can basically do what the f**k they want, and if they kill someone, well that's too bad innit?  We don't pay 'road tax' after all. 

That's just behind smokers. You're so right in all of that. Terrible. My pleasure cycling and passion has reduced in recent years for lots you mention. Can't see the situation getting any better in the long run. 

Perhaps automated cars are our best bet as they (well, clearly not yet) might see us and drive accordingly.

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

Not surprising. I cycle into and out of work (20 miles a day) because it's 1. cheaper than the train 2. more reliable than the train and 3. stops me getting (too) old and (too) fat. 

But there is no pleasure or enjoyment.  None.

Every day as I'm getting the bike out of the shed, I wonder if I'm going to make it to work or back without being killed or seriously injured.   

Any pleasure I could conceivably derive from cycling in Britain is destroyed by the selfish, unrepetent, irreedemable, psychopathic f***ing animals who drive cars in this country.    Every mile is punctuated by at least one close pass - most of them not enough to place my life in real danger, of course.  But every one symptomatic of the complete disregard for the life of those who choose to cycle.

The government doesn't give a shit.  The police don't give a shit.  The CPS doesn't give a shit.  The courts don't give a shit.

You're not wrong.  I commute by bike, and any pleasure that I get from riding to work is killed stone dead by the twats I have to share the road with.  The sense of relief I feel at journey's end, that I'm still alive, is palpable.  But in the winter, the terror of riding in the dark (worse when it's also raining) is almost unbearable.

It's a bit better at the weekend, when club rides (safety in numbers) head out on quiet country roads.  Plus there's cake.

Again and again and again I'm told the same thing - either "you're so brave to cycle", "I'm too scared to ride a bike in the roads" or "cycling is too dangerous". Cycling is NOT dangerous.  Driving a car is dangerous.  But the danger is to the poor bugger on the bike, and not to the driver of the 1.5 tonne death machine.  So everyone drives bigger and bigger cars to feel safe, and they refuse to see how bloody miserable they make the roads.

put a spike in the centre of every steering wheel and behaviours just might change.  Not until then, though.

Richard D wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

Not surprising. I cycle into and out of work (20 miles a day) because it's 1. cheaper than the train 2. more reliable than the train and 3. stops me getting (too) old and (too) fat. 

But there is no pleasure or enjoyment.  None.

Every day as I'm getting the bike out of the shed, I wonder if I'm going to make it to work or back without being killed or seriously injured.   

Any pleasure I could conceivably derive from cycling in Britain is destroyed by the selfish, unrepetent, irreedemable, psychopathic f***ing animals who drive cars in this country.    Every mile is punctuated by at least one close pass - most of them not enough to place my life in real danger, of course.  But every one symptomatic of the complete disregard for the life of those who choose to cycle.

The government doesn't give a shit.  The police don't give a shit.  The CPS doesn't give a shit.  The courts don't give a shit.

You're not wrong.  I commute by bike, and any pleasure that I get from riding to work is killed stone dead by the twats I have to share the road with.  The sense of relief I feel at journey's end, that I'm still alive, is palpable.  But in the winter, the terror of riding in the dark (worse when it's also raining) is almost unbearable.

It's a bit better at the weekend, when club rides (safety in numbers) head out on quiet country roads.  Plus there's cake.

Again and again and again I'm told the same thing - either "you're so brave to cycle", "I'm too scared to ride a bike in the roads" or "cycling is too dangerous". Cycling is NOT dangerous.  Driving a car is dangerous.  But the danger is to the poor bugger on the bike, and not to the driver of the 1.5 tonne death machine.  So everyone drives bigger and bigger cars to feel safe, and they refuse to see how bloody miserable they make the roads.

put a spike in the centre of every steering wheel and behaviours just might change.  Not until then, though.

Things could change long before then.   But of course, what needs to be done is illegal, and we hold 'the law' in such reverence that we refuse to do what needs to be done, because of an arbitrary 'legality' imposed by one small class on the rest of us. 

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

Not surprising. I cycle into and out of work (20 miles a day) because it's 1. cheaper than the train 2. more reliable than the train and 3. stops me getting (too) old and (too) fat. 

But there is no pleasure or enjoyment.  None.

Every day as I'm getting the bike out of the shed, I wonder if I'm going to make it to work or back without being killed or seriously injured.   

Any pleasure I could conceivably derive from cycling in Britain is destroyed by the selfish, unrepetent, irreedemable, psychopathic f***ing animals who drive cars in this country.    Every mile is punctuated by at least one close pass - most of them not enough to place my life in real danger, of course.  But every one symptomatic of the complete disregard for the life of those who choose to cycle.

The government doesn't give a shit.  The police don't give a shit.  The CPS doesn't give a shit.  The courts don't give a shit.

No one gives a shit.  We're the last 'minority group' in Britain whom it is acceptable - and even cool - to hate.  Drivers know they can basically do what the f**k they want, and if they kill someone, well that's too bad innit?  We don't pay 'road tax' after all. 

One of the problems is that everyone has got too much to lose to say what really needs to be done.  Someone needs to send a message to the police, courts, government etc.  You sort it, or we'll f***ing sort it for you, and our justice will be a lot less f***ing clement than yours is likely to be.

F**k this.  I'm emigrating.  

EDIT - sanitised the swearing;  Sorry.  Long story.

This  should be in the highway code on page 1.

john1967 wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

Not surprising. I cycle into and out of work (20 miles a day) because it's 1. cheaper than the train 2. more reliable than the train and 3. stops me getting (too) old and (too) fat. 

But there is no pleasure or enjoyment.  None.

Every day as I'm getting the bike out of the shed, I wonder if I'm going to make it to work or back without being killed or seriously injured.   

Any pleasure I could conceivably derive from cycling in Britain is destroyed by the selfish, unrepetent, irreedemable, psychopathic f***ing animals who drive cars in this country.    Every mile is punctuated by at least one close pass - most of them not enough to place my life in real danger, of course.  But every one symptomatic of the complete disregard for the life of those who choose to cycle.

The government doesn't give a shit.  The police don't give a shit.  The CPS doesn't give a shit.  The courts don't give a shit.

No one gives a shit.  We're the last 'minority group' in Britain whom it is acceptable - and even cool - to hate.  Drivers know they can basically do what the f**k they want, and if they kill someone, well that's too bad innit?  We don't pay 'road tax' after all. 

One of the problems is that everyone has got too much to lose to say what really needs to be done.  Someone needs to send a message to the police, courts, government etc.  You sort it, or we'll f***ing sort it for you, and our justice will be a lot less f***ing clement than yours is likely to be.

F**k this.  I'm emigrating.  

EDIT - sanitised the swearing;  Sorry.  Long story.

 

This  should be in the highway code on page 1.

Is it me?  I know that my view of humanity is very dark.  I hate people.   But do I see it blacker than it is?

This morning, my wife suggested a bike ride.  I persuaded her that it would be better to go to the gym together.  

A ride into London and back would be two hours.  That is two hours during which I am aware of being surrounded by people who utterly and totally despise me.  People who would like nothing better than to see me killed stone dead.  

'But that's you,' said my wife.  'Sure - there is probably a mild dislike from the majority of car drivers, because we "inconvenience" them.  But most people who drive don't want to see all cyclists killed'.

'I think they do,' I said.  'Most of them wouldn't be prepared to do it, but if one of us got dragged under a 7.5 tonner and crushed, I think most car drivers would punch the air and scream, "YES!"'. 

At the same time, I'm aware that when we go to the gym, the psychopaths have scored another small victory: two cyclists fewer to 'get in [their] way'.

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

Please do not use the word "animal " in a pejorative context. Bad car/commercial goods drivers are SHIT HEADS !

 

 

 

 

 

Not surprising. I cycle into and out of work (20 miles a day) because it's 1. cheaper than the train 2. more reliable than the train and 3. stops me getting (too) old and (too) fat. 

But there is no pleasure or enjoyment.  None.

Every day as I'm getting the bike out of the shed, I wonder if I'm going to make it to work or back without being killed or seriously injured.   

Any pleasure I could conceivably derive from cycling in Britain is destroyed by the selfish, unrepetent, irreedemable, psychopathic f***ing animals who drive cars in this country.    Every mile is punctuated by at least one close pass - most of them not enough to place my life in real danger, of course.  But every one symptomatic of the complete disregard for the life of those who choose to cycle.

The government doesn't give a shit.  The police don't give a shit.  The CPS doesn't give a shit.  The courts don't give a shit.

No one gives a shit.  We're the last 'minority group' in Britain whom it is acceptable - and even cool - to hate.  Drivers know they can basically do what the f**k they want, and if they kill someone, well that's too bad innit?  We don't pay 'road tax' after all. 

One of the problems is that everyone has got too much to lose to say what really needs to be done.  Someone needs to send a message to the police, courts, government etc.  You sort it, or we'll f***ing sort it for you, and our justice will be a lot less f***ing clement than yours is likely to be.

F**k this.  I'm emigrating.  

EDIT - sanitised the swearing;  Sorry.  Long story.

Doug.F. wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

Please do not use the word "animal " in a pejorative context. Bad car/commercial goods drivers are SHIT HEADS !

Fair point.  

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

Please do not use the word "animal " in a pejorative context. BAD CAR  AND COMMERCIAL GOODS DRIVERS ARE COMPLETE SHITHEADS.

Not surprising. I cycle into and out of work (20 miles a day) because it's 1. cheaper than the train 2. more reliable than the train and 3. stops me getting (too) old and (too) fat. 

But there is no pleasure or enjoyment.  None.

Every day as I'm getting the bike out of the shed, I wonder if I'm going to make it to work or back without being killed or seriously injured.   

Any pleasure I could conceivably derive from cycling in Britain is destroyed by the selfish, unrepetent, irreedemable, psychopathic f***ing animals who drive cars in this country.    Every mile is punctuated by at least one close pass - most of them not enough to place my life in real danger, of course.  But every one symptomatic of the complete disregard for the life of those who choose to cycle.

The government doesn't give a shit.  The police don't give a shit.  The CPS doesn't give a shit.  The courts don't give a shit.

No one gives a shit.  We're the last 'minority group' in Britain whom it is acceptable - and even cool - to hate.  Drivers know they can basically do what the f**k they want, and if they kill someone, well that's too bad innit?  We don't pay 'road tax' after all. 

One of the problems is that everyone has got too much to lose to say what really needs to be done.  Someone needs to send a message to the police, courts, government etc.  You sort it, or we'll f***ing sort it for you, and our justice will be a lot less f***ing clement than yours is likely to be.

F**k this.  I'm emigrating.  

EDIT - sanitised the swearing;  Sorry.  Long story.

Pushing50 wrote:

 I blame the wife

This. 

velodinho wrote:

I blame Brexit.

Whilst I presume you are being sarcastic about that, I woud make sense that in times of hardship for the masses cycling as a means of transport would go up.

The report is rather damning and completely blows apart the notion that cycling was on the increase, it's hovered around the same amount for years and there are no increases in total cycling even after big sporting achievements like Beijing, London, Rio Olympics, nor the TdF or with all the extra coverage of Tour of Yorkshire, Nationals, Commonwealths, World's etc.

And the gender and age gaps are as big as they ever were, why, because people simply do not feel safe enough on the roads whether cycling for liesure or for work and there is virtually no segregated infra of any use aside from some isolated pockets.

And yet the minister for transport said he didn't think safety was the problem but ignores that KSIs are on the increase and the roads are intimidating fpr experienced cyclists never mind novices, elderly, ladies, children.

Then you have headteachers and local authorities making it even more difficult to cycle to school/no provision for parking bikes, space protection orders banning cycling, assault and public order offences ignored by police, oh and deaths a twice weekly occurence, let's not even get to the hate speech athat is allowed and getting more widespread, and people wonder why there's no increase in cycling and a drop in liesure because not many want to do liesure cycling because of the percieved harm they see and hear about all the time.

We're just as bad as Australia, no in fact worse, because we had mass cycling, we always had cycling clubs, we always had cycling as a sport and the powers that be both Labour and the Cons fucked us over from the 60s and in doing so fucked the country over too.

Just 5% of motorists average journey's done by bike would save the NHS in excess of £250M a year, we know that obesity is rising, we know that the goverment has being taken to the highest court over pollution and still they do knack all except blow a nillion quid on a short stretch of road past some stones. £300M to 'improve' the A63 in the centre of Hull which will further push cyclists off the roads because the infra is a piss poor shared path that ends a few hundred metres away and goes nowhere, the list of the money pissed away is endless and the cycle will continue no matter who is in power.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

velodinho wrote:

I blame Brexit.

Whilst I presume you are being sarcastic about that, I woud make sense that in times of hardship for the masses cycling as a means of transport would go up.

The report is rather damning and completely blows apart the notion that cycling was on the increase, it's hovered around the same amount for years and there are no increases in total cycling even after big sporting achievements like Beijing, London, Rio Olympics, nor the TdF or with all the extra coverage of Tour of Yorkshire, Nationals, Commonwealths, World's etc.

And the gender and age gaps are as big as they ever were, why, because people simply do not feel safe enough on the roads whether cycling for liesure or for work and there is virtually no segregated infra of any use aside from some isolated pockets.

And yet the minister for transport said he didn't think safety was the problem but ignores that KSIs are on the increase and the roads are intimidating fpr experienced cyclists never mind novices, elderly, ladies, children.

Then you have headteachers and local authorities making it even more difficult to cycle to school/no provision for parking bikes, space protection orders banning cycling, assault and public order offences ignored by police, oh and deaths a twice weekly occurence, let's not even get to the hate speech athat is allowed and getting more widespread, and people wonder why there's no increase in cycling and a drop in liesure because not many want to do liesure cycling because of the percieved harm they see and hear about all the time.

We're just as bad as Australia, no in fact worse, because we had mass cycling, we always had cycling clubs, we always had cycling as a sport and the powers that be both Labour and the Cons fucked us over from the 60s and in doing so fucked the country over too.

Just 5% of motorists average journey's done by bike would save the NHS in excess of £250M a year, we know that obesity is rising, we know that the goverment has being taken to the highest court over pollution and still they do knack all except blow a nillion quid on a short stretch of road past some stones. £300M to 'improve' the A63 in the centre of Hull which will further push cyclists off the roads because the infra is a piss poor shared path that ends a few hundred metres away and goes nowhere, the list of the money pissed away is endless and the cycle will continue no matter who is in power.

What he said