Forum Replies Created
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Replies
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monty dog wrote:How would the
How would the OP feel if he bought a pair of ‘new’ shorts from Wiggle and found they’d only been used once?Let’s move beyond the fact this is a bit of kit that’s intimately connected to your arse, OK?
A retailer cannot sell you *anything* that’s been used, unless they state as such. That would be illegal. I don’t expect Wiggle to do so, and quite right I’d be cross if I received a ‘new’ item that had been used.
The point being if you buy something – a light, shoes, bike computer, toaster, TV, whatever – if once you’ve unwrapped it, binned the packaging, then find it fundamentally does not do the job you’d reasonably expect it to do, having followed the manufacturer’s instructions, the retailer should give your money back.
If that happens often then the retailer or manufacturer goes broke because they sold a patently crap product. On occasion it will happen that something slips through quality control. You, I and all the keyboard warriors hereabouts don’t know what the case was – maybe the pad was too firm for some reason, or the fit was out, as does happen between plants or design years. That’s not my concern. It’s then that the retailer, distributor or manufacturer steps up and accepts that as a cost of business sometimes shit happens. I’m a businessman. I lost €700 the other day sending an engineer to put right something that technically wasn’t my fault, but appreciating they have a choice and to keep the customer happy we sucked it up.
In this case as a long-time Castelli / Wiggle customer, I expect them to do some sucking up. I’m surprised so many are jumping to defend a £13Bn private-equity-backed retailer for whom a team manager’s time to even look at an issue like this probably cost them more than the reseller purchase price.
glynr36 wrote:KiwiMike
Man learns life isn’t always fair; sulks.Person doesn’t get fundamentals of customer service, brand loyalty, economics in a competitive market, or indeed UK/EU Distance Selling Regulations. Posts comment.
Distance selling regs exclude underwear for a refund, unless faulty.
Not fitting, or you not liking them is not faulty. How ever you try and spin it.
I’d say you don’t understand the fundamentals of the distance selling regs, or just choose to apply it in the way you like, and have cried when you didn’t get the answer you liked.From http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations:
“The goods you can’t return: There are some goods you can’t return if you simply change your mind, including:
…
underwear”This wasn’t a ‘simple change of mind’. This was clearly stated to the retailer at time of return (and in the original post, but never mind). Granted, they may decide not to accept the customer’s explanation that their product caused physical pain when used as designed. That’s when true customer service values kick in. Or not. My experience with Castelli says they are very good at supporting loyal customers / brand advocates who have genuine issues with products that don’t deliver when used as designed.
Nick T wrote:You sound a bit
You sound a bit mental. What retailers are there which accept clothes with the tag removed to be returned used?Christ, would you take half a bag of spuds back to Tesco because the ones you ate didn’t make as good a bowl of mash as you were expecting?
http://www.thenorthface.com/en_US/contact-us/return-policy/
This retailer. You may have heard of them. Maybe they are ‘a bit mental’ as well.
They’ll probably be out of business before you know it, with a customer service/returns policy like that.
But of course, the collective wisdom of Road.CC forum denizens knows better.
C.Gregs wrote:I was refused a
I was refused a return on a pair of bib shorts I purchased this summer from their Prudential Ride London stand at the excel after they developed a tear in the pad (let the jokes ensue) after 2 months of light wear.Is that something worth pursuing?
I think the warranty on manufacturing defects is 12 months, so I’d say so. Castelli were great at organising a replacement set of armwarmers through the UK agent when the stitching came undone after 3 months of use. Even though they were purchased in Switzerland.
crikey wrote:Man continues to
Man continues to sulk.No, I’m pro-actively engaging with the retailer, distributor and manufacturer to resolve the issue and will advise when it is, either way.
Hopefully others will benefit from this in future. It’s clearly an issue for this particular retailer to get right, as pointed out other major brands/retailers don’t have a problem with exchanges/refunds on products that don’t work out. If you personally like risking your cash and think the Distance Selling Regulations or other consumer legislation is not needed, feel free to accept poor CS.
Noting this isn’t a ‘hygiene’ issue – the item in question could have been a light, or GPS, or shoe. The retailer could have been anyone. ‘Fit for Purpose’ isn’t a literal use of ‘Fit’.
Chuck wrote:KiwiMike
Man learns life isn’t always fair; sulks.Person doesn’t get fundamentals of customer service, brand loyalty, economics in a competitive market, or indeed UK/EU Distance Selling Regulations. Posts comment.
Well, his line is basically the same as Wiggle’s, and since it was recently reported on here that they have become the UK’s biggest cycling retailer I’d say they’ve got a pretty good grasp of the fundamentals of customer service, brand loyalty, and economics in a competitive market.
I don’t doubt the ability of individual CS reps or team leaders to make errors of judgement, nor for currently-dominant retailers of commodity products to quickly fall from grace and ultimately go broke. ‘Big’ ≠ ‘Right’.
crikey wrote:Man learns life
Man learns life isn’t always fair; sulks.Person doesn’t get fundamentals of customer service, brand loyalty, economics in a competitive market, or indeed UK/EU Distance Selling Regulations. Posts comment.
bendertherobot wrote:What did
What did you say when returning them? Surely you just reattach the tag, stick them in the bag and select “wrong size.”I could have washed them thoroughly, put the tag back on (Castelli ones are held in place by a safety pin) and returned as ‘unworn, size wrong’.
Instead, I was honest and explained everything in detail.
That’s what it gets you.
I don’t think it’s reasonable, havnig worn them to send them back.I ordered two pairs of tights from Wiggle wore one & found it was too short after a ride. I send the second, unopened one back & got a replacement.
Having done that I left a review on the tights & mentioned the sizing chart was too small and the advice I got from their on-line char was wrong. They just read the same chart I guess. The review was denied as being “against guidelines”, but no further explanation given.
So you followed the rules, lost out on cash, they denied you the chance to warn others, and you *still* think they are right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome, much?
As unconstituted said above re. returning boots, the outdoors industry has a model in place here. Why should I accept that because it’s my arse not my foot, that things are different? No-one’s going to try to resell *anything* that’s used.
Retailers should have the confidence to back their products and help conscientious consumers when things go wrong. Plenty of firms have policies where they allow returns up to a year later, no questions asked. Case in point: NorthFace: a one-year, no-quibble used-kit return for a full refund. *THAT’S* good CS.
http://www.thenorthface.com/en_US/contact-us/return-policy/
You don’t see NorthFace going broke, or hordes buying their kit to return after one hillwalk.
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An update: Wiggle CS have offered a 75% refund. Still not happy with that. I haven’t done anything wrong. I trusted a much-loved brand and a frequently-used retailer to give me a usable product.
So got a reply from Wiggle
So got a reply from Wiggle CS:“Unfortunately we do not accept back items that are returned as unwanted after having been used.
This is simply an issue where the incorrect size has been chosen, and as stated before we allow customers to try the garments on before use to get a feel for the product, but as you have now returned the product not in a resellable condition we cannot provide a full refund for the product.
Please note that we are unable to accept that these are not fit for purpose, simply because they were not right for you after one use.”
I have repeatedly advised them that the sizing, according to their size guide, is absolutely spot on. And that they felt just fine standing up or in fact even sitting on the bike. Was genuinely looking forward to completing my Castelli winter kit of Nanoflex arms, legs and Gabba.
So by every metric, they should work. The fact that they didn’t, to the point of being painful after 40 miles, is why I say they are ‘not fit for purpose’. Neither Castelli nor Wiggle say these shorts are designed only for a certain type of posterior, saddle or bike-fit posture.
I’m impressed there are so many people who consider losing £80 after conducting extensive research and playing precisely by the size rules to be such a non-issue. Maybe if you IM me your debit card details I can share the love.
OnTheRopes wrote:Could you go
Could you go int a local bike shop and expect to take a pair of shorts for a 20 mile ride and then expect them to take them back? Or if you go into a outdoor and spend £200 on some really nice hiking boots do you think they would let you walk round town for a couple of hours before making a decision?
Simple answer is no.Having purchased a lot of boots over the years, you try them on, make sure you have toe room/suitable width, and that there will be a period of breaking in during which it pays to get them wet then go for a long walk, apply lots of proofing, etc. That’s a tried & tested process. I’ve never had boots need to go back. I’ve also never read that bibshorts need ‘breaking in’.
Any retailer that took back used items I doubt would be in business long and I think you are being unfair to expect it.…as opposed to a retailer who is prepared to see a £500/yr customer walk away for ever, and tell all their friends not to use that firm either? Repeat business is built on trust. The consumer has a choice. Any business that doesn’t recognise that won’t be in business for long.
As for small claims I assume you did read the T&C you signed up to?The EU distance selling regulations state a product must be fit for purpose, and no amount of after-the-fact T&C can remove fundamental consumer rights and seller obligations.
A different matter if the item is faulty of courseThat’s what I’m saying they are. I accept definitions of ‘faulty’ may vary. All I know is that I’m £80 down with some shorts I can’t wear, having followed the size guide to the cm.
It is possible to tour
It is possible to tour off-road for about half of the South Island and camp where you like – did it 20 years ago. Roads like the Rainbow Valley, Molesworth Station, Above Omarama, Beside Lake Tekapo and other hydro roads, and the ranges around Queenstown can be linked up to make for a fabulous off-road network, with usually quiet backcountry roads joining them up. The Kennett Brothers MTB NZ book (Google it) is invaluable for planning a trip like this.
parksey wrote: Lezyne Micro
Lezyne Micro Drive… I had a slight issue in that the silicone mounting bracket wouldn’t secure quite tight enough on the seatpost to prevent it from slipping round as I cycled, but it’s been mostly cured by adding a rubber insert between the bracket and the post. I still need to keep an eye on it though.I’d guess you’ve attached it wrong – I did at first. The wee rubber tab sticking out of one end is supposed to go between mount and bike to stop exactly this.
Anyway, HUGE +1 for the Micro Drive. Having used a pile of lights this one is hands-down the best out there if you want:
USB cable-free charging
‘Stupid-bright’ daylight/dappled shade
Usable night-time/chain gang modes – the pulse one is very good
Small
Light
Easily removed.Genius.
Scoob_84 wrote:Both my bikes
Both my bikes run 105 (5800) and the difference in the performance between the two was huge. The newer of the two group sets shifted like a dog whist the older set was light as a feather. If you were blind tested you’d think they were different groupsets.The only difference between the two was that i was using 2 year old jagwire cable outers on the new groupset whilst the older set was set up with brand new cable outers.
THIS.
Swap out your cables every 1-2000km. It’s £10 worth of hardwear* and 20 minutes, max. for a vastly improved experience.
* a lot less if you buy in bulk.
Been using KMC 9.93 chains
Been using KMC 9.93 chains for years. Never had a problem with ’em. £9 on eBay.
OP, yes, it’s all your
OP, yes, it’s all your problem. Deal with it.