[Kapelmuur]

I may have missed it but I’ve not seen this discussed here.

A (non cycling) message board I belong to has been in meltdown, ‘long delays to my journey’, ‘more accidents caused by drivers staring at their speedometers’,  ‘increased pollution caused by slower traffic and car engines being inefficient at 20mph’.

Also many of them signing a protest petition despite non of them being Welsh or living in Wales!

 

Topic

[quiff]

I think bikeman’s point is

I think bikeman’s point is that the excepted roads shown in the Swansea area are a very small proportion of the roads – so many others are 20mph. Unfortunately (but perhaps unsurprisingly) it seems the map is not complete – only some highways authorities have marked various categories of road. 

However, I still don’t get the speedo obsession. Ok, there might be a small adjustment period as you acclimatise to what the reduced speed looks/feels/sounds like. But if you weren’t previously glued to your speedo to ensure you were doing 30, you won’t need to be glued to it now to do 20.  

 

[hawkinspeter]

bikeman01 wrote:

I dont go there myself often but I can assure you there are a lot more roads in and around Swansea than the few exceptions that that map shows. 

Anyway she is 85. I expect she thinks everywhere is now 20. 

I can’t add any local knowledge to that, but it sounds peculiar that the map specifically for that purpose would be incorrect.

[bikeman01]

I dont go there myself often

I dont go there myself often but I can assure you there are a lot more roads in and around Swansea than the few exceptions that that map shows. 

Anyway she is 85. I expect she thinks everywhere is now 20. 

[hawkinspeter]

bikeman01 wrote:

My mother lives in Swansea, Wales. Here is her take on 20mph.

– 20mph through villages, housing estates, schools etc is sensible.

– Swansea has lots of main roads, some dual carriageways. All are now 20mph. It’s very difficult to keep to 20 on these roads without looking consistently at your speedo.

– Plenty of aggression from frustrated drivers and overtaking in inappropriate places

– Some people are driving at 15mph.

– Lots of rat running down side streets.

– Very difficult to pull out of side roads when theres a constant stream of 20mph cars bumper to bumper.

Sounds like the expected shit show to me.

I think every villiage in Oxfordshire is already 20mph and it’s not caused an uproar because most accept that it is being used appropriately. But this blanket change from 30 to 20 in Wales is madness.

That doesn’t seem to match up with the data. From https://datamap.gov.wales/maps/roads-affected-by-changes-to-the-speed-limit-on-re/

When the Senedd voted in favour in July 2022, Wales became the first UK nation to pass legislation to lower the default national speed limit on residential roads and busy pedestrian streets from 30mph to 20mph. The new speed limit came into force on Sunday 17 September 2023.

The new legislation is not a blanket speed limit on all roads, it simply changes the default speed limit on restricted roads from 30mph to 20mph. Highway authorities, who know their area best, engaged with their local communities to decide which roads should remain at 30mph.

Exceptions to 20mph default speed limits

This map shows:

a. roads remaining at 30mph speed limit (‘exceptions’)

Some highway authorities have also shown:  

b. roads that are currently 30mph by Order and will stay at 30mph

c. roads that are 20mph by virtue of legislation (restricted roads)

d. roads that are 20mph by Order

[bikeman01]

My mother lives in Swansea,

My mother lives in Swansea, Wales. Here is her take on 20mph.

– 20mph through villages, housing estates, schools etc is sensible.

– Swansea has lots of main roads, some dual carriageways. All are now 20mph. It’s very difficult to keep to 20 on these roads without looking constantly at your speedo.

– Plenty of aggression from frustrated drivers and overtaking in inappropriate places

– Some people are driving at 15mph.

– Lots of rat running down side streets.

– Very difficult to pull out of side roads when theres a constant stream of 20mph cars bumper to bumper.

– It’s pretty hilly so its 2nd gear everywhere now.

Sounds like the expected shit show to me.

I think every villiage in Oxfordshire is already 20mph and it’s not caused an uproar because most accept that it is being used appropriately. But this blanket change from 30 to 20 in Wales is madness.

 

[bikeman01]

yupiteru wrote:

20mph signs went up on the A road in my village in south Wales last week and there was an instant change for the better in my opinion

As many would agree except it’s not just a limit in the villages is it.

[Anonymous]

Funny you should use this
Funny you should use this image. I don’t get the joke however…

[Col.G]

Could be argued that any

Could be argued that any motorist becoming agitated to the point of causing more accidents after a few mins delay, is mentally unfit to hold a driving license.

[David9694]

Wales Online are being pretty

Wales Online are being pretty sensible about the issue 

Why the toxic debate over 20mph masks a massive missed opportunity

It is naïve and wrong to just dismiss this petition

“Presiding officer Elin Jones was clearly rattled and upset by threats and the commentary towards elected members and their staff. I’m told Lee Waters warned colleagues to be on their guard if they were out in public this weekend. My colleagues and I have received horrific, abusive messages for sharing factual pieces.”

Gonna say it again: a lot of this only has a passing acquaintance with transportation.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/mark-drakeford-20mph-speed-limit-27780852

 

[RMF]

https://nation.cymru/opinion
https://nation.cymru/opinion/shocking-facebook-posts-prove-20mph-row-is-the-most-toxic-issue-since-devolution-began/

RT Davies and the tories really are toxic knobends. Bet they wouldn’t like to be reminded that 7 out of 11 tory MS’s voted FOR the motion when it was passed in the Senedd in 2020. RT didn’t vote. Now they spout toxic drivel – absolute hypocrites.
Don’t think RT would be happy to see this photo either……

[chrisonabike]

Meh, reads like another:

Meh, reads like another:

“IS something we found on Facebook the most SHOCKING thing since the last thing we found?”

TBH if the tone of Facebook posts is used as a gauge you’d expect to find a cyclist hanging from a lamppost on every other street.

People were marching by his house a couple of years back.

Does he have police protection already (like we have in Scotland)?

I don’t know – but my guess is that this will blow over.  Probably depends partly on how strongly the Conservative party and the media want to keep “but cars” at the top of the agenda.

Reports from other posters suggest outside of the web calm prevails?

[David9694]

oldfatwelshwhinger : I don’t

oldfatwelshwhinger : I don’t know anything about the the 20 mph limit at the end of my road until I was flagged down by a police car and given “words of advice” 

david9694: your point?

[60kg lean keen climbing machine]

https://nation.cymru/opinion

Shocking Facebook posts prove 20mph row is the most toxic issue since devolution began

[60kg lean keen climbing machine]

https://www.leaderlive.co.uk

https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/23708984.north-south-divide-number-exemptions-new-20mph-limit/

[chrisonabike]

60kg lean keen climbing
thanks for explaining, I’m not sure I’d agree as it seems ANY issue which sounds like restricting driving (even if it actually doesn’t) is always available to any current politico to try and make a “wedge issue”.
I would take issue with:

60kg lean keen climbing machine wrote:

It has been pushed through without a real consultation that has engaged with the wider public, yes know it was in the manifesto but so many I speak to here in Wales say it was just a short sentence within a wider context of policies that would be of benefit …

This is a very common refrain. Aside from possibly the EU referenda (stay in the EC, then leave the EU out) when has such a thing ever occurred? Not saying it shouldn’t but why do people think they’re missing out? (yes the AV one was another – and people voted for their votes not counting! )

I know as it’s been said that people ignore things because it doesn’t seem interesting, or it’s too far off, or “they’ll never do it” or just burying their head in the sand.

This one though – genuine question – without spending the very millions it cost to do it how else could people be more thoroughly notified, never mind asked to participate and given some specific agency?

Actually… maybe use some volunteers here and start a social media craze to get schoolkids to sticker an ad on every car windscreen and wi … side retrovision device in the land?

[Author]

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