The new Conservative leader of Southampton City Council has said that a major bike lane in the Hampshire city will be ripped out “immediately” as the new administration looks to scrap a number of initiatives brought in by its Labour predecessors.
The pledge to remove the cycle lane on Bitterne Road West is in direct contradiction to transport secretary Grant Shapps’ policy of encouraging active travel as a major part of the government’s plans to tackle the coronavirus pandemic.
Temporary bus, cycle and taxi lanes were put in place on the road last year with the help of emergency active travel funding from the Department for Transport (DfT).
At the time the council said it was creating “Permanent schemes to create safer spaces for walking and cycling” with the aim of supporting “more people to travel sustainably, free up space on the roads and create a fairer, greener and healthier city.”
The Tories gained seven seats in last Thursday’s election to give it a control of the council.
Its new leader, Councillor Dan Fitzhenry has also promised to reverse the pedestrianisation last year of the city’s Bedford Place, reports the Daily Echo.
The new cabinet will also review the previous council’s £18.5 million transport plan, which has a heavy emphasis on promoting active travel and the use of public transport, as well as closing some roads to through traffic and installing cycle lanes by the civic centre.
“The current transport plan as it stands – which is Labour’s transport plan – is not something that we will be fully endorsing, ”Councillor Fitzhenry said.
“We will be reviewing it immediately. The pedestrianisation, the removal of main routes into the city, those things will not be staying but we will properly analyse what’s going on and then we’ll come forward with a revised plan shortly.
“We made the commitment to remove Bitterne bus lane, that will be happening as soon as we can,” he added.
The Tory Southampton Itchen MP Royston Smith, who last year accused the council of making road traffic congestion worse through the installation of pop-up cycle lanes, welcomed their impending removal after the change of control.
“It’s a really good day for Southampton and it’s a really good day for the Conservatives,” he said.
92 thoughts on “Southampton bike lane to be ripped out after Tories win control of council”
How depressing, and
How depressing, and unsurprising. Guessing no Southampton cyclists voted Tory. I suppose they think the climate emergency won’t affect them.
“The pedestrianisation, the
“The pedestrianisation, the removal of main routes into the city, those things will not be staying but we will properly analyse what’s going on and then we’ll come forward with a revised plan shortly.”
So they’ll rip out anything that isn’t car-oriented, then analyse things, then devise a plan. How utterly, incredibly, irredemably stupid.
There must be readers of road.cc who vote tory; would some of them like to tell me why? Is it that you like being lied to? Or that you want the world to fry? Or maybe you just love Boris?
eburtthebike wrote:
Yep. If you are a cyclist you really shouldn’t vote Tory. Since Labour lost Scotland we are all doomed to permanent Tory government.
Change will be much slower than the glaciers are melting, but we should all protest this and other dangerous Tory nonsense as loudly as possible.
joro wrote:
TFTFY
And Southampton Uni has done
And Southampton Uni has done the research to set this out starkley. Southampton under the sea in 30 years time (probably need to adjust since this result) The areas of Southampton and Hampshire that could be underwater by 2050 | Daily Echo
I live in London where we are
Looking at Southampton’s demographics it looks like the swing was caused by small ‘c’ conservative, aspirational voters and, of course, the 54% who voted leave who feel unrepresented by Labour and the LibDems.
My guess is that enough of these non-traditional Conservatives went to that very private place that is the voting booth and quietly placed a cross in the box of the parties that haven’t spent since 2016 sneering down at them.
Chris Hayes wrote:
— Chris HayesBut the tories have been sneering at us for my entire life, that of my father, and his father before him, not just since 2016. The only difference now is that they do it so utterly blatantly, but the sheep still believe the msm. Boris is a cult, just like Trump.
Was ‘cult’ a typo
Was ‘cult’ a typo 🙂
eburtthebike wrote:
Bravo Burt, bravo.
Southampton has been a
Southampton has been a marginal seat/council since the late 70s (previously strong Labour). Partly due to gerrymandering, partly due to an aging population. West of the city is much redder but was less so for this election because a lot of University students (who tend to vote non-Tory) weren’t there. But it’s always been complicated. Coming from a middle-class Labour household I could never understand why most of my mates at school (’80s) were from conservative-voting households. But then they bought Thatcher’s dream – bought their council houses, got shares in British Gas and BT, etc.
A couple of Westminster elections in the last ten years have been won less than 200 votes on turnouts of 45,000 – 55,000.
I voted Tory for the first
I voted Tory for the first time in my life (55 years old) at the last general election. I come from a very socialist, South Wales family that in the past had many union members and even a few Shop Stewards.
It was a tactical vote to hopefully ensure that that absolute monster raving loony Corbyn got no where near being our political head. It came with a few sacrifices but I believe it was worth it in the long run for the good of the nation as a whole. Can you imagine the utter carnage that would have occured if he had been responsible for managing the Covid crisis let alone the broader economy?
Whilst I now live in Milton Keynes (still Labour controlled council) I follow the news in Wales every day. Bearing in mind the grumblings about how the pandemic was handled there I was quite surprised that Drakeford secured another term.
In Milton Keynes we have arguably the best segregated, shared use network anywhere in the country. Whilst some routes are ok many are not well maintained at all. In winter, coming down from the station on NCN 51 (I think) you take your life in your hands with all the leaves etc that are just left there to rot.
My point is this; no elected party is significantly better than any other. We will always find something to complain about. We have been in a unique position in this country to watch four different political parties handle a global pandemic – none have come out smelling of roses!
Gimpl wrote:
Without wishing to cast aspersions, I’m kind of confused why a life long socialist would think that Corbyn’s policies were anything other than very moderate, middle of the road, democratic socialist ones, just like they have in many other countries with successful economies and a much happier populace than the UK? Or are you one of those DM reading socialists?
eburtthebike wrote:
You really are very funny.
Also – no need to be rude.
Gimpl wrote:
Also – no need to be rude.
— GimplThank you, I’ll be quoting your first sentence, even if the second baffles me.
Gimpl wrote:
No, except Tory voters have selected the one party that has so consistently and offensively got things wrong, on so many fronts, and at the cost of so many people at the vulnerable end of society. It is significantly worse than any other.
The one thing they have got right in any recent event is the early procurement of vaccines. Anything else I can think of has been the actions of others which they claim as their success, or has been dulled by their own incompetence and adherence to failed dogma. Even furlough was selective and divisive, and until grants came through relatively recently (with rules that vary from LA to LA and use-it-or-lose-it rules that breed inconsistency) excluded many people in exposed situations.
This was a government that claimed to follow the science, yet acted a lot later than the scientists, watered down the scientific advice and, even accounting for different late ‘winners’ and varying counting methods, nearly took the crown for most deaths per capita.
This is a party whose biggest battles are within itself yet the fallout affects the nation: Brexit is a battle led on both sides by the same party; battles over lockdown vs libertarianism is fought within the ranks.
This is a party that takes our failings as a nation and projects blame onto assylum seekers, creating a self-declared hostile environment policy that repeatedly denies human rights.
This is a party that promsies local control then overrules the local decision-making it doesn’t like (see climate change measures removed from Kent planning permissions… in favour of developers of which at least one is a Tory party donor.
This is a party led by a current prime minister who practically rejoices and laughs at legitimate criticism of his personal and party funding; whose ministers authorise grants to each other’s consituency areas without any hint of irony.
It is a party that disgusts me to the point of physical revulsion.
It is a party that has given the people who acutally have saved the country, putting their own lives on the line day-in day-out, either a paultry pay rise (NHS) or none at all (other public servants). This includes people working in health, care, and crisis management area. In fact, hundreds of doctors face no jobs in August having led the frontline response.
I’m not a Corbyn supporter ether, for the record. He was a useful backbencher, a voice of conscience (whether you agree with any of his views or not) that tests the idea at hand. But he was incompetent as a party leader and would have been swamped by the practicalities of state leadership.
He is as nothing compared with the arrogance of a party that believes it is born to rule and rules for the benefit of the privileged. Yet there is one born every minute. If you are a CEO of a blue chip, landed, or independently wealthy, I understand why you might vote Tory. If you are a man in the street, you are voting for the person who hits you over the head every time.
But, because this is a cycling web site, what bike would you recommend?
GMBasix wrote:
More accurately, what they got right was letting someone else decide what to do about vaccines. Though that’s not a bad thing – governments probably ought to try this more often.
mdavidford wrote:
Accidentally competent 😀
I live in Wales.
I live in Wales.
We have had a Labour government since 1997 and will be close to thirty years of Labour rule by the next Senedd election.
Welsh schools are ranked last in the UK by PISA.
Welsh NHS waiting lists are significantly longer than English equivalents.
Natural Resources Wales is mired in the stench of significant corruption.
All these issues are entirely devolved, that is the Welsh Government is entirely responsible for them. They set the budget, targets etc.
If Conservative government disgusts you so much come to Wales and enjoy the fruits of uninterrupted Labour rule for a generation.
If I had to only have one bike it’d probably be a Mason Aspect
Rich_cb wrote:
Based on the funding available to them from national government. Aside from other factors, devolved regimes also have significant rural economic issues. In Wales, these include collapsed primary industries that were dismantled without significant recovery schemes under [flicks back through notes] oh yes: a Tory goverrnment. It is typical of Tory governments to make people believe that the failures are all people’s own fault, niot the failings of governance that makes those decisions.
Hmmm. interesting choice
The question is, how long can
The question is, how long can you keep blaming the Tories?
It’s been nearly a quarter of a century since they were in power in Wales. The miners strike ended in 1985.
Estonia, currently ranked first in Europe by PISA, was under Soviet occupation until 1991.
It’s amazing what competent government can achieve.
The Welsh Government can increase the health and education budget if they want to.
In the last 5 years alone they’ve spent £250 million plus on a failing airport and thinking about building a road.
How many schools or hospitals would that have built?
You can rail against the Conservatives all you want but Wales is a salient reminder of the alternative.
Rich_cb wrote:
Perpetually. Hold my beer.
The miners’ strike was not the cause of the problem. Indeed, coal mining is an industry that is long past its environmental justification. The problem was, and is, the dismantling of a whole industry without significant efforts to instigate replacement industry or training for those displaced. The impacts of that are not fixed quickly when communities and society have built up around the industries affected. This is a feature replicated across the UK, too. It’s just that Wales is particularly hard-hit.
It is also a repeated trope of Tory messages to give insufficient funding for all sorts of activities, then blame the people charged with applying a budget with a failure to do anything about it.
Last I checked, the Tories weren’t in charge there. However, I note that Estonia remains in the EU and continues to benefit from participation, as we would have, had not Tory-led idiots lied to the population so that 26% of the UK population voted to leave. Wales has lost ERDF funding that contributed significant amounts to infrastructure, so now funding from central (UK) government has to be spent on health, education and infrastructure. It only gets worse.
“HM Treasury controls the overall level of public expenditure in the UK each year. A portion of the total funds raised throughout the UK and earmarked for public expenditure is allocated to Wales and this portion, known as the ‘block grant’, is the basis of the Welsh Government’s annual budget.” (https://law.gov.wales/constitution-government/government-in-wales/finance/?lang=en#/constitution-government/government-in-wales/finance/?tab=overview&lang=en)
It doesn’t matter how they move the numbers around if the number you start with is insufficient. Wales does not have a national bank, or money tree as Theresa tried to pretend it wasn’t.
Thank you.
The Tories might not have
The Tories might not have been in charge in Estonia but they did have alternate occupations by the Soviets and Nazis for 50 years prior to independence.
Some might argue that was slightly worse.
They also had the economic fall out from the collapse of the USSR to deal with.
Nobody can argue that Estonia’s situation in 1991 was better than Wales’ in 1997.
Yet 30 years later they have the best education system in Europe.
After 24 years of Labour rule where does Wales rank?
We’re not even the best in the UK let alone Europe.
The PISA rankings were last done in 2018 so you can’t blame Brexit either. Wales was still recieving full EU funding at the time of the assessment.
Wales receives more funding per capita than England and more funding per capita than post industrial areas of England.
The problem is not the funding, The problem is the Welsh Labour Government.
They chose to spend quarter of a billion on not building a road and buying an airport.
They chose not to spend that money on Health and Education.
Wales also has the power to raise taxes and borrow money if the Welsh government needs more money.
They choose not to.
As a final note, I grew up in a deprived area of Wales that received Objective 1 funding, it was deprived when I left 20 years ago, it’s still deprived now.
The EU funds achieved nothing.
As with the Welsh Government, after 20+ years of failure there is no harm whatsoever in trying a new approach.
We’re last in the UK let
We’re last in the UK let alone Europe.
Is Wales last in Europe? Not from the results I have seen.
And here is a report on what Estonia supposedly do well in Education compared to over here.
Apologies, that was badly
Apologies, that was badly worded. I shall correct it.
I was going to say we’re not even the best in the UK let alone Europe.
You are right Wales is not the worst in Europe but it is a long way from being the best.
Thanks for the article, Estonia does so many innovative things, I often think it’s the ideal model for an independent Wales but, alas, I’m not confident we’ll ever see such a dynamic government in Wales.
I’m not arguing that the Conservative government are paragons of virtue and competence, just that the most viable alternative, Labour, have a pretty impressive track record of incompetence, failure and corruption in Wales.
Power corrupts, twas ever thus.
Rich_cb wrote:
But sometimes it wasn’t the power; Boris the Liar was corrupt before he got power; he was sacked for lying, he made up total nonsense about the EU when he was a reporter etc, etc.
A politician who lies?
A politician who lies?
Have you told the papers Burt?
This will be front page news…
All politicians and most journalists lie.
Pretending that one side is somehow worse than the others is just partisan nonsense.
Boris has got a free holiday and some fancy new wallpaper.
What did Joe Anderson get?
Rich_cb wrote:
The alternative we want is competent govt that is not corrupt. The Tories are consistently failing to provide this, and have since the forties (and even then, well,….). The Tories are to blame for this, no one else. If the only thing that you have to support the Tories is that they are better than strawmen govts that only exist in fevered dreams, that in itself suggests that you know that they are dreadful too.
In the last 5 years alone
In the last 5 years alone they’ve spent £250 million plus on a failing airport and thinking about building a road.
In the past 9 months a certain government has spent / is spending £37billion on a failed test and trace system. Luckily they labeled it NHS so people will believe it is them and not the governement solely responsible for it. Luckily they put in place the wife of the Governments anti corruption champion so we know no cronyism or other corruption has accounted for any of that loss.
Exactly – part of my point.
Exactly – part of my point. None of them can cover themselves with glory.
Whilst there is always “they
Whilst there is always “they are all as bad as each other”, I do like that it is ok to be racist, mysogonistic, corrupt and a liar if you are a tory MP/Leader as it is expected, but not liking how the State of Israel is essentially abusing the Palestinians rights, religion and land is not allowed if you are Labour.
It is the same reasoning that people voted for Drumpf in America because Hilary might have done a bad thing with some emails.
And even if I agree with
And even if I agree with everyting you write it was still the least worst option!
Giant Defy
Gimpl wrote:
A tactical vote that helped ensure no change from a monster raving loony tory gov with that clown and chief embarrasment Johnson at our head? If there is no appreciable difference in the parties (which is clearly not true) why make the effort of a deliberate vote for the status quo, one that has been shown to be viciously corrupt?
We’re entitled to different
We’re entitled to different opinions.
Also you misquote me – I said no one party is significantly better than any other. They all have their strnghts and weaknesses. As Churchil once said – democracy is the least worst option! It’s by no means perfect.
Gimpl wrote:
Why thank you….
I didn’t quote you, but neither , I believe, did I misrepresent you. However I will now quote you as saying:
“It was a tactical vote to hopefully ensure that that absolute monster raving loony Corbyn got no where near being our political head”.
You now follow up with:
“no one party is significantly better than any other. They all have their strnghts and weaknesses.”
So which is it? And, again, why would you vote “tactically” to maintain a status quo of monumental incompetence (demonstrated by tories, not imagined of Corbyn) and despicable corruption (again, demonstrated not imagined)?
I’m not even going to even ask what strengths the current government have ….
Quote:
Whilst we don’t know how he would have handled the recovery and vaccines, whilst he was still leader he was challenging why we still hadn’t locked down and was only asking over 70’s to self isolate, was calling on major support for people to be covered for rent and lost earnings and lots of other points well before the Government did them. Since then the Tories obviously did Universal Credit (furlough pay) and incresed Corporate Tax, both policies in Labours manifesto. Yes, you could argue that as opposition it is easier to say then to do, however I genuinely feel we might have not reached 40k dead in the initial wave last March with them in charge. Of course since he left as leader we don’t know what else he would have claimed to do, but I doubt 50 billion wasted on cronies and private businesses would have occurred though under Labour.
I voted Labour because of
I voted Labour because of Corbyn – he was the best thing to happen in British politics for a generation – you are now seeing fallout from people leaving Labour in droves or simply not voting.
In our ‘democracy’ we don’t
In our ‘democracy’ we don’t get to vote for the Prime Minister and it seems to me that casting a local vote on the basis of who you prefer to have for PM is an unreliable proposition:
* in 2005 those who wanted Blair/against Howard, got Brown.
* in 2010 those who wanted Cameron/against Brown, got Cameron & Clegg.
* in 2015 those who wanted Cameron/against Miliband, got May.
* in 2017 those who wanted May/against Corbyn got Johnson.
There have been 112,263 Covid deaths in England; of approx. 200 countries in the world, England has the 6th highest numbers of deaths. That’s appalling; that’s more than “a few sacrfices”. Who you vote for does mater.
Maybe tories grew up in
Maybe tories grew up in heavily polluted areas?
“Study links childhood air pollution exposure to poorer mental health”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/28/study-links-childhood-air-pollution-exposure-to-poorer-mental-health?fbclid=IwAR3D3sq_Loi01ki0glxg7cjNcTL2uN3ocDS2HkoRwE0wgFQN7Rqz5OIWjzc
It’s a very sad time for the
It’s a very sad time for the city of Southampton. So much hard work has been done only for it to be ripped out by the people wedded to their little metal boxes. The local paper polled people today; they overwhelmingly voted for the new measures to stay. Alas, the tories never listen.
but “the people” were polled
but “the people” were polled last Thursday and voted as they did, I dont think the Tories were shy about their plans if they gained control of the council, their campaign line was to “get Southampton Moving…” so it is what it is.
fwiw Southampton UA were only awared 245k in the first tranche of Active travel funding, which this bus/cycle lane on Bitterne Road West was funded from, and it doesnt look what youd call a high quality installation, even if it takes space from cars, its just paint on a road, yes a road that otherwise looks horrible to cycle on, but is this actually something that helps cyclists ultimately ? we’d need someone local to comment if it was of any use or not.
I don’t know how well used
I don’t know how well used those lanes were. Given the demographics of the area (affluent-ish but not particularly well educated), and the fact that it’s hilly, I suspect not very.
Personally I was quite happy to cycle on Bitterne Road West before the cycle/bus lanes, but I know a lot of people would find a dual carriageway like that intimidating. It may just be paint, but the width of a bus lane makes it fairly safe feeling, it’s not like a narrow strip of paint separated cycle lane, so I suspect those cyclists who did use it would have been happy with it.
And there isn’t really a good alternative to get from Bitterne or areas east of there into town. SCN3 takes a back road down that hill, but it’s just along a residential street which is steep, has lots of parked cars, and isn’t quite as quiet as you would want for a cycle route. Personally I’d prefer the dual carriageway.
Mark B wrote:
That’s why it needs a cycle track, because it’s the most obvious and direct route, yet confronting for inexperienced cyclists.
They used the first tranche
They used the first tranche of funding in a few places, of which Bitterne Road West is possibly the only one that hadn’t already been removed to some degree.
There was a cycle lane in each direction the whole length of The Avenue, the main arterial road from the north but the top section of that was blamed for congestion for traffic coming from the motorway and was removed previously. The rest further south remains, and some is permanent immediately north of the city centre.
There was also a cycle lane put in on the road to the west of the Common but again the northern most part of that has been removed. Complaints against that centred on the loss of on road car parking for people visiting the Common (including incredibly for Park Run) and the displacement of parking to the adjoining roads. So, the problem was actually cars not bikes, but the bikes lost out.
The local Conservatives made opposition to these schemes a “culture wars” issue from the start, and saw the opportunity in championing complaints about them.
The local paper, The Echo, has been ever keen for a clickbait article that pits cyclists versus motorists, and made hay with this.
The only plus was that spurred a few cyclists locally to a take over of their reader’s cars column last year, which they responded to and which continues, with cyclists and their bikes outnumbering features on readers cars since then and hopefully presenting a more normalised view of cycling.
There’s a bitter irony too as Royston Smith, Conservative mp for the east of the city, some years ago reacted to the death of a cyclist in his constituency by saying cyclists should choose their routes carefully, and use ones with cycle lanes. Hard when he has consistently opposed their introduction, and is now backing ripping them out.
All in all it’s a pretty deflating turn from Johnson’s ‘Golden Age of Cycling’ announcement last year, but not a surprising one. The local resistance and obstinacy was obvious, and the Conservatives knew what they were doing championing it.
What there’s no word on as
What there’s no word on as yet is the ‘school streets’ which see roads outside schools closed at the start and end of the school day to encourage children and parents to walk or cycle to school instead. They have quietly been gaining support and expanding to include more schools. They might achieve a change that results in people demanding better cycling and walking provision more widely.
Southampton already has
Southampton already has massive amounts of pollution from the port, you’d think they might want slightly fewer motor vehicles pumping out more.
ABP have plans to increase
ABP have plans to increase capacity at the port by 50%
New cruise terminal opening
New cruise terminal opening this year, meaning they can service up to 5 ships and around 40,000 passengers per day. Whilst the new terminal has shore power (cold ironing) not all ships using it have the capacity to use it, meaning more pollution. And that’s on top of the proposed container expansion.
The active travel elements of their plan are literally a drop in the ocean compared to the particulate emmissions of the ships, but that doesn’t mean it should all be ripped out. The Bitterne Road West bus lane doesn’t cause congestion (admittedly it might when the economy is fully open, but so many large firms are continuing to work remote) and is essential as it provides a safe corridor all the way from the eastern edge of the city and pretty much all the way out to the western edge.
I’m longer a cycle commuter in the city but Labour did a fantastic job at building safe routes. The western approaches in particular are transformed. What the city needs to complete the vision is proper park and ride provision but the problem is that the most suitable sites for that are under the control of other local councils. Southampton itself is pretty much fully built on the outskirts
kil0ran wrote:
Doesn’t sound very useful anyway – how’s that going to get the creases out of your shirts?
mdavidford wrote:
I’m fairly sure it’s something to do with cold fusion, and it’ll be with us next year; to be sure; it will. No really.
eburtthebike wrote:
Isn’t ‘shore power’ where they turn off the ship’s engines and plug an extension lead into the mains to run everything while in port?
I think a Mr Fusion would work much better…
(edit:) Hang on! According to Back to the Future, shouldn’t we have Mr Fusions by now???
Local cyclists have worked
Local cyclists have worked closely with the Labour council for the last 5 years to create better cycling facilities in the city. They are not perfect but there has been a will to focus on active travel, walking, cycling, we have an e-scooter trial ongoing and once Covid is under control plans for more bus lanes.
The new Tory council only have a 2 seat advantage so it would be very foolish of them to remove schemes that genuinely make living in the city better for people, and the pedestrianiation of Bedford Place which is crammed full of bars and cafes, is great and is a showcase for what a city could be like when it is designed for the majority of the people who live there, not the few who are passing through.
Perhaps in a year or two things will change again, but it is a sad day for cyclists in the city
slitemere wrote:
You’re missing the point.
This is all a consequence of the wonderful tribalism of modern politics.
When a city, or a region, or a country, change political leadership then the new administration spends the first half of its time in office destroying whatever it was that their predecessors did precisely and only because their predecessors did it.
It doesn’t matter whether their predecessors’ activities led to universal basic income, perpetual motion, cold fusion, and a cure for cancer, they will wotk to undo it because their predecessors did it.
I’m sure that Southampton CC,
I’m sure that Southampton CC, now that it’s under Conservative control, is just rolling back the temporary measures taken last year so that they can put in permanent infrastructure and rise to Boris Johnson’s vision to make England a great walking and cycling nation (“Gear change: a bold vision for cycling and walking”).
I mean, surely that wasn’t just a lot of hot air? Surely not?
(No subject)
“3Bedford place has one of
“Bedford place has one of the best free schools for girls in England at one end, the best solicitors in Hampshire at the other, the best shoe shop in England in the middle together with one of the best unpretentious pubs of the city. That in itself should be enough to ensure traffic be allowed to pass its full length of just 500 yds without hamper. But add the road is home to dozens of well used bars, cafes, restaurants and take-aways and around the back is a multi-storey car park and half a dozen large night clubs used by thousands through weekend evenings, with every person requiring private car and taxi drops and pick-ups at all hours throughout those nights, then closing the road halfway down its length is the dumbest thing ever imagined by a city council anywhere in the world.”
There you go then. It is important that the road get passing traffic in case someone decides they require a solicitor, education or they have scuffed their shoes.
The fact that a multi storey car park is nearby is irrelevant as that requires people to walk.
Southampton has what looked
Southampton has what looked to me like a pretty good 10-year plan (2017-2027) – https://transport.southampton.gov.uk/media/1089/cycling-southampton-2017-2027-final.pdf
Most of the network is incomplete, but the finished sections that I’ve used (Bursledon Road) are high quality. My concern is that the transport plan will now be ripped up and replaced by one that simply reads “More Cars!”.
Tom_77 wrote:
— Tom_77Oh, it won’t simply say more cars, it will have large sections about congestion, pollution, public transport, active travel, climate change, danger etc, etc, THEN it will say “More Cars, and please ignore all those sections”
Democracy in action yeah
Democracy in action yeah
Unfortunately, yes it is.
Unfortunately, yes it is.
More people voted for the people who said they’d “review” (wonderful euphemism) the provisions their predecessors put in place.
I think we have to be
I think we have to be cautious in our approach to these stories. I saw an article in the express yesterday slagging off Sadiq Khan. The headline was something like ‘on line backlash against Khan’. This is days after he won a second term. Sorry, you might not like him, you might not like those that support him but that is as you say democracy in action.
Particularly, as these gammons are presumably the same one that told us we had to respect the Brexit vote and stop remoaning.
The sheer quantity of (mostly
The sheer quantity of (mostly racist) abuse Khan gets is appalling. Papers like the Express fuel that.
Only if you believe our first
Only if you believe our first past the post system is democratic.
Bungle_52 wrote:
This is BRITISH democracy, where 40% of the vote gets you 100% of the power.
eburtthebike wrote:
It’s also the same British Democracy where people had the option to change the electoral system when the Coalition Government came to power, and voted against changing it. People like this system.
I don’t like this system and
I don’t like this system and I didn’t like the shit system that the coalition proposed. tbf, most of the libs said that the proposed alternative system was shit as well. I think we were given Hobson’s Choice.
IanMK wrote:
There’s First Past The Post, or Proportional Representation. Those were the two options proposed. The public rejected Proportional Representation in a referendum. They don’t want it.
Jenova20 wrote:
Proportional Representation wasn’t an option in the referendum – it was First Past The Post vs Alternative Vote. And there are lots of possible systems besides those three, not to mention various different flavours of Proportional Representation.
I’m sorry. You’re wrong.
I’m sorry. You’re wrong.
Jenova20 wrote:
No, PR was not proposed. Your misunderstanding of the subject of the referendum, if shared amongst a significant proportion of the electorate, may have had a distinct influence on the outcome…..
It was Alternative Vote (AV)
It was Alternative Vote (AV) that was the other option in the referendum when some wanted PR and others wanted STV. So of course people who wanted one of the others and not specifically AV would have probably voted No Change. It is one of those catch 22’s where *No will probably always win in a referendum as if you only put in one option when others would prefer something else. And if you put them all in, the minority option will still win so if PR won on 29% with the rest at 27, 24 and 20, people will point out that 61% of the population didn’t want it so how is that democracy.
*Of course if they had stated to the voting population that the meaning of Alternative Vote meant any sort of alternative no matter what and that will be decided afterwards without nailing down anything specific, then we might all be voting under a different system whatever mess four years of negotiations would have left us in.
Or we could have had an
Or we could have had an Alternative Vote vote on voting systems. But apparently that wasn’t allowed because, um… reasons.
Labour still thought they had
Labour still thought they had a chance of power. The Greens and the Lib Dems didn’t have the resources to fight the press effectively. The Tory press promoted the staus quo and the great British public did what they were told as usual.
Jenova20 wrote:
I don’t, and I am a person
I don’t think that conclusion can be drawn in any case, especially as whether people liked the system wasn’t the question asked. That was
“At present, the UK uses the “first past the post” system to elect MPs to the House of Commons. Should the “alternative vote” system be used instead?“
The most we can conclude on an incomplete data set was that around 19m voters (42% of those registered) turned out to vote on the question, with ~6m (32%) voting yes, and ~13m (68%) voting no.
We can say that 6m (at the time) didn’t like it I suppose, however, the obverse is not certain. 19m only “liked” this system better than the one that was proposed, which of course is not the same as liking it.
Jenova20 wrote:
No, the proposal was neither fish nor fowl, a complete abortion that was no significant change from the status quo, very little improvement at all. Why can’t we have proper proportional representation? It works in other countries.
Very few people like this system apart from the tories, because it keeps them in power when most people voted against them.
Bungle_52 wrote:
I believe it’s “democratic” (for certain values of democracy).
Ah, I see the Tories are
Ah, I see the Tories are “levelling-up” and trying to reduce pollution and congestion.
I think today’s queen’s
From the press this morning, I think today’s queen’s speech will suggest that in order to level up you need to get back to college, get a better job and move to an area with less pollution. Sorted! Who knew?
“The Tory Southampton Itchen
“The Tory Southampton Itchen MP Royston Smith, who last year accused the council of making road traffic congestion worse through the installation of pop-up cycle lanes, welcomed their impending removal after the change of control.”
The results of that decision should be interesting. Hopefully Royston will reverse course if that decision doesn’t siginificantly improve traffic…And if it does, then it tells motorists they can lobby against cycle infrastructure to force cyclists off the road.
This is a bad decision all round.
Jenova20 wrote:
While I love being optimistic, my realist side says “You’ve gotta be kidding.” A politician, a tory, admitting they were wrong? Dream on.
eburtthebike wrote:
It’s funny because the same Government was criticised constantly for listening to feedback and doing U-turns…Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
You’re not familiar with
You’re not familiar with Royston, are you?
Credit where it’s due, he’s one of the Conservative backbenchers who have brought pressure to bear on the government over the cladding issue in the last few months.
But other than that, I wouldn’t hold out any hope for his changing his position whatever the outcome. Like the Tory local councillors he’ll probably make some noises about cycle infrastructure on alternative routes that don’t share main arterial roads, but to date they’ve not been able to say where those would be and I don’t believe they’ve brought forward any proposals.
Southampton is my nearest
Southampton is my nearest metropolis and certainly within cycling distance. With the removal of the cycling infrastructure, the overpriced public transport, and the punitive parking charges for private cars anywhere near the city centre I guess the shops will just have to do without my custom.
My eldest is at uni in
My eldest is at uni in Southampton so we often make the trip down there. Yes, the parking is not cheap. It’s worth noting too that at the weekends, there are long queues of traffic into the centre of town.
But the locals voted to get rid of the cycle lanes and have more traffic queues instead. Oh well…
There’s always been
There’s always been congestion on the major roads into the city, particularly from the north leaving the M3 and entering the city via Bassett Avenue. At rush hour there has always been heavy congestion there both entering and leaving the city. And there’s then been congestion turning west off there on Winchester Road, especially on weekends. But as soon as the cycle lanes were put in on Bassett Aveunue they were blamed for causing congestion there, including on Winchester Road where there had been no alteration.
The same applies to other major routes in the city whether north / south or east / west. East / west routes north of the city centre cross the Avenue at some point, and invariably have queues at traffic lights at almost all times of day.
Predictably that situation sees a lot of rat running on residential streets too.
Traffic has been contentious in Southampton long before anyone thought of introducing cycle infrastructure. But now cycle and bus lanes are getting the blame for problems that existed anyway.
Yep, the traffic on Bassett
Yep, the traffic on Bassett Avenue can be bad. There was a pop up cycle lane there last year, which my eldest made extensive use of. But it was taken away again. Having queued to get into the car parking near Westgate several times (while taking said eldest to the supermarket for a big food shop), I can attest to the fact that cyclists are not causing the city’s traffic problem.
Is anyone aware that there is
Is anyone aware that there is a climate emergency that threatens our existence on this planet? When will these idiots realise that we have to do things differently!
iandusud wrote:
Lots of people. Just none of them tories….
Good luck on that one!
iandusud wrote:
Perhaps some cyclists could draw lines on building and lampposts etc to show the water level predicted in a hundred year’s time? Should be well over the roof of most cars.
depressing stuff indeed, and
depressing stuff indeed, and if Road.cc can re-heat an old article, so can I:
https://road.cc/content/forum/those-pop-cycle-lanes-despatch-front-line-275835
The context of all this is
The context of all this is Southampton Conservatives positioning themselves as pro business, as you would expect. That means concieving of the city as two things, a working dock including both container and cruise industries, and a retail destination. Traffic is seen as essential to both of those. In terms of the city as a retail destination that is reliant on attracting shoppers from the suburban and rural commuter belt around the city (London is just over an hour by train, Southampton & Winchester are 12 miles apart with people commuting to both from the surrouding area). The alternatives shopping destinations for those people are Winchester, Basingstoke, Portsmouth and out of town shopping.
So, arguably a lot of this doesn’t have much to do with people who actually live in the city. The Bitterne bus lane on a major route from the east of the city across the other side of the water does. But the arguments over the Avenue cycle lane that was largely removed or watered down previously don’t. That’s about access for people from outside of the city, and those who live there just have to put up with it. That’s true of a lot of the rest of the city too.
Chances are it’s also true for many other cities.
The local councils will do
The local councils will do just as you say and put business first but when you have a national government saying they are committed to green initiatives and reducing carbon footprint etc in line with the Paris accord, how do they ever expect to do that, when the local councils (they are so happy to give devolved power to) do their upmost to counter anything remotley green or environmentally beneficial? The PM himself is pro cycling and yet even his own constituancy’s borough council are so anti cycling they removed cycling infrastructure. Its laughable. Nothing will get done. things will stagnate as (i’ve mentioned before) outspoken minorities like ‘Angry from Islington’ will do anything to stop changes that threatens their comfortable way of life. They are too addicted to driving their 4x4s wherever they want without LTNs or cycling lanes getting in their self intitled way.
This country will not change becuase there is too many selfish people who are unwilling to change. And they are usually the ones with money and influence. And the government wouldn’t want to upset their core voters now would they?
You’ve got to admire the way
You’ve got to admire the way some Tories will waste public money on the basis of what they read in the Daily Mail.